Transcript
This isn't your average business podcast, and he's not your average host. This is The James Altucher Show. Today on The James Altucher Show. In reality, everybody kind of wants to be somebody else most of the time. Like, a lot of people work in cubicles and wanna be an entrepreneur. Or a lot of people wanna be a writer, but they're stuck being an entrepreneur or whatever. I always say that the distance between what you're doing and what it is you want is a matter of your tenacity, your courage, your honesty about your ability, and your gratitude. And you can pretty much accomplish what's on your mind. The fear is to change your life. The fear is to step out from what you have created for your day to day. We have just finished happy days and I realize I don't have a plan b. I just lived my dream for the last 10 years. I do not have anything to replace it with. I went for a while not knowing what was gonna happen to me, But I knew one thing. I knew inside me. I was not done yet. I knew that I have more to do. I've got Henry Winkler on the podcast. I have to tell you, this is like a bucket list moment for me. Thank you. We're not gonna talk too much about happy days. I wanna focus on your more recent work with Barry, which I find to be the most incredible show out there right now. Just won 13 Emmys. Congratulate or it got nominated for 13 Emmys. And and, you know, I was called, in congratulations from HBO. And, the the head of all publicity, Nancy, said to me, I wanna just tell you, I've been doing this a long time. 1st year comedies are not recognized. They just don't get the recognition they deserve until the 2nd year. This is unheard of. And then, for writing, for acting, for producing, for directing and cinematography, and the list goes on. It I'm very proud. That that so I wanna actually well, we're gonna get to so many aspects of your career. And, again, I just happy days when you're on that Love it. Playing the Bonds. You were the probably the most popular person on the planet. Like, Paul McCartney said you were more popular than the Beatles. Well, let me just say, I met Paul McCartney on, Madison Avenue in about, 65th Street. My wife and I were walking. We were walking, and came at each other from opposite directions, and he went, the phones. And I I I was speechless. I couldn't believe it. And then we started talking. A woman came out of a shop and brought us a a, a rose each. Somebody else came up and said, can I just stand here and listen? He said, we're in the middle of a conversation. And, that was that. What did you talk about? You know what? I, he gave me his phone number and told me to call him and we'll get together. And like the obsessive, idiot that I was, I called him several times in a row. He never answered. I never saw him again. He didn't pick up the Fonzest call? He didn't pick up the call. No. He must have been pissed off that I was more popular than the Beatles. So so on Barry Yes. You play, an acting coach. Yes. And Bill Hader, who plays a hitman, an assassin, stumbles into the class semi by accident. He's one of his targets is taking the cla*s. That's right. And the series revolves around this tension he has between, you know, having this kind of soulless job of being a hitman, and I say job in quotes, and he finds he he finds purpose by hearing your words, reading your book, and and taking acting lessons from you, and participating in that cla*s. He finds purpose, he finds maybe love, or not. And and there's that tension where it's hilarious, and it's also, we're talking about a guy who murders people for a living. In one episode, now, if you haven't seen it, you can see it on HBO Go, you know, on on demand. But in one episode, he kills his very best friend. In the next episode, he kills the enemy. And all of a sudden, he goes from your jaw dropping to the the the carpet to becoming a hero in a matter of, 36 minutes. Yeah. It's it's because you don't really know throughout the series how to understand who he is, because he's also trying to figure it out. But now you're starting to realize towards the end of the series, you know, what's what's how the characters are shaping up. Even though there's drama throughout. I mean, the very first scene, he's it's the very first scene is hilarious even though because even though there's a dead mangled body, and he's just impassively, like, just doing his job cleaning up. That somehow is very funny to me. Right. And it's the way they do all those And the weight of, god, this is boring, is amazing. Right? And and yeah. And then and then there's there's an interesting thing about there's several interesting things, not just interesting, but fascinating things about the character you play. So but and by the way, I'll say this repeatedly, you've done, you know, hun you know, dozens or hundreds of movies, TV, theater. You've worked with everybody in the business. Happy Days itself ran 11 seasons. But, it was so interesting to see you interpret this acting coach, because obviously you've been acting, and you've been a serious actor, and you, and I was watching the series with a friend of mine who was an actress, and she said, that's just like my acting teacher was. Well, he is First of all, I taught 4 classes in my life. 1 at Northwestern and 3 at Emerson College where I went. And I so enjoyed it. And then, I have had about 14 or 15 different drama teachers in my life. Some of them good and some of them should be selling shoes. And then I heard about all these acting teachers from other people. There's a guy that taught in, in, LA where his kids were his class was forced to buy his artwork. Do you know? These kids who have no money, they are spending it on rent, food, and acting classes. They're at the beginning of their careers, not getting a lot of jobs, and they have to buy his art. So I took all of these people and and just squashed them up, swallowed the the thoughts, and out came Jean Cusineau, the teacher of thespians. So so when you read what would you say is the difference between the character you read in the script, and I know you stuck to it word by word, and your interpretation of it, of of that character? Like, how was there any kind of dissonance between what the the producers and writers expected and what you then portrayed? The the biggest dissonance was that, because I'm so dyslexic, that I, I have survived by ad libbing. When I don't remember a line or can't read a line or can't read off the page. And Bill would say to me, if he said it once, he said it 100 times to me, he said, please, if you could just do it the way we wrote it so I could hear what we wrote, I would be so appreciative. I said, Bill, I'm trying. My lips and my mouth don't exactly go to together with my brain, but I'm gonna get there. Now, the other thing was they I I only knew this. Afterwards, when we did press when it at the premiere, they had written a darker, harsher, meaner teacher. And as I was playing him, they started to write him as I was, evolving. So they just changed their course, watching what I was doing. They told me that. I did not know that. That that's interesting because you in the very first scenes with you Yes. You, kind of make, Sally, the one of the main characters Sarah Goldberg. Is it yeah. Was she amazing? Yeah. She was great. And, you know, she becomes a potential love interest for Bill, but she's she was the premier student in your cla*s. You sort of make her really angry to get emotion out of her. Yes. Right. Is that a class I imagine never having taken care of. Teachers do that. They say we've got to break down your bad habits. We've got to, we've got to rebuild you into the actor you can be. I all I think that a lot of it sometimes is masochistic. So so is that is that a little bit, this is why I'm curious about how you interpreted it. Because I almost feel a scene like that is cliche, in the sense that I expect an acting coach to to do that kind of Right. Make the student angry, and then say, okay, now use that anger, and you're on the stage. I feel like I've even seen that in other movies or whatever. So what what did you do to kind of because it didn't feel cliche to me when you were doing it. What did you do to say make it your own? I don't know. I don't have an answer to that question. What I do know is this. I, at at the at drama school, I had a dance teacher. Her name was Carmen de Lavallade. She was the lead dancer for Alvin Ailey's group before Judith Jamieson. And I said, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm playing a deer, and I had to become a deer. And she and she was a deer, and I said, how can I be a deer if you, this this unbelievably famous mover of your body, is going to be a deer? And she said, my deer will be completely different than your deer because it's me and it's you. Just your being will force the deer to be different. So so I wanna understand that. Yes. Because and I know we'll we'll get to Barry, we'll get to everything, but I wanna understand just that one direction she gave you. Okay. How do you play you? How does the you come out as a deer? Like, how does your inner truth come out as a deer? You know, all characters. If if a character is well written, you're already in it. That's why Shakespeare is still, unbelievably popular this, almost 500 years later. Because every character he wrote, take away the language, and you've got a human being you totally know from your family. You totally know from your circle of friends. You totally know from the temple. That, it it it it humanity is the reproduction or or or acting is is is reproducing and holding up as a mirror the way we live. So so and you studied a lot of Shakespeare. I did, and I can't do it. I mean, I know my limitations. But you were at the Yale I was at the Yale School of Drama, and I was in, I was in Macbeth, and I played young Seward, and that was it. I was killed, and I had to lie on the stage as a as a corpse for about, 2 quarters of the, of the third act. And then and then I feel like after such a great dramatic experience when you were at a very young age Yes. You know, studying at Yale's, you know, theater, you you you many of your roles, the roles I would say the world knows you as including and up to, Barry Right. Let's say Arrested Development, and Happy Days and your Adam Sandler roles. You're a very funny comedic actor. Thank you. And did you ever and I know you've done great drama as well, but really you're known for for a lot of these comedic roles. Right. And you ever feel like, I don't wanna be just playing a comic role. You know what I I thought that I wanted Listen, my my one of my things on a bucket list, I want my children and my grandchildren to, meet their destiny. I would like to win a Tony. And, I'd like to play a mute. I don't know why. That just is in my mind. Anybody here wanna watch a write a screenplay for a mute? We've got Okay. Terry Winkler. Don't all speak up at once. Now, but the thing is that I am blessed. I love my career. I have worked with, geniuses. Gary Marshall, Adam Sandler, Mitch Hurwitz who created Arrested Development. To watch him live on the set when you're saying something that is extraordinarily funny, and he goes, you know what? This will be funnier. Say this. And off the top of his head comes this, I don't know what, this this gift. And now the the combo of Bill Hader and Alec Berg together make a bubble of brilliance. Truly. And the point is, if it's not on the page, it's not on the stage. You can work as hard as you want. If it is not written well, if it's not written with intent or a point of view, you will eventually, pull off your mooring, and you will float to the middle of the ocean. So so And this is what I sense from So Jean Cousineau, the the acting teacher you play Yes. He does have a point of view. He takes acting super seriously. Yes. And also if you can pay in cash, on time. Right. And that's Very important. That's the dissonance, and that's almost the That's so much of your challenge. The the relatable aspect for many people is that they have acting coaches who give good advice, but also they they really need that check-in advance. Let me just tell you this, that, this is one of the things that helped me create Jean Cusanow. In my acting, theater, in the on the set, there are, posters framed all through the walls of the of the set. Jean Cousineau presents, directs, produces, and stars in, and one of them is Peter Pan. And they had me in a harness and flew me like Peter Pan. The only thing is, I did not bother to dye my hair. I am playing Peter Pan at 72. I knew Gene Kucinow right away. Well, and it's funny because then in the middle of the season, you we we see you in this one scene and one scene only, but it was enough to see you auditioning for a role. And it was only a one line role. The role is man in the back of a line, and you give 2 interpretations of it, which is hilarious. And so we kind of then see, oh, he's like the students too. I'm kidding. And yet you are, you do have a point of view about acting where you're giving great acting advice to the students. But here it is. Everybody in the show wants to be somebody they're not. Bill Hader is an assassin and wants to be an actor. I'm a teacher. I want to be an actor. Sally, played by, Sara Goldberg, wants to be, you know, the greatest and she is is completely unsatisfied by the characters that Shakespeare has written for her. She wants to be Macbeth. Everybody wants to be somebody else. Do you think that's like you mentioned earlier that, you know, you won so many Emmys, and that the people at HBO said this is so unusual for a 1st season sitcom. Yes. Do you think part of that is because in reality, everybody kind of wants to be somebody else most of the time? Well, you know, I I a lot of people want to be in show business, so that's relatable. A lot of people want to be, as you just said, somebody else. Like a lot of people work in cubicles and wanna be an entrepreneur. A lot of people wanna be a writer, but they're stuck being an entrepreneur or whatever. Well, the distance I always say that the distance between what you what you're doing and what it is you want is as thin as the thread that it sews on your button. It is a matter of your tenacity, your courage, your honesty about your ability, and your gratitude. And you can pretty much accomplish what's on your mind. The fear is to change your life. The fear is to step out from what you have created for your day to day. Well, and and I feel if you look through your career and your acting life, let's view it in terms of the the arc of the hero where, you know, you you know, in the middle, you get obstacles along the way that are increasingly more difficult. Right. And I sort of see that happen in your career. One of the obstacles being between happy days and the early nineties. Where I was not hired. Yeah. And and and you said, this was, in interviews, this is a very low moment for you. That's right. What was a day in the life like during during those 9 years? I don't know. Okay. So And you were the most famous person in the world at the beginning of that period. Right. And so I had an office at Paramount, and then I had a producing deal with ABC, which, I don't I don't know that they do anymore. I was really lucky. Part of my compensation was on the air. If I got a show that they like, they would put it on the air. That would that was part of my deal. I'm sitting in my office at Paramount. We have just finished Happy Days. A few months have gone by. And I realize I don't have a plan b. I just lived my dream for the last 10 years. I do not have anything to replace it with. I am psychically in pain. I literally when when you are rudderless, when you don't know what it is you want, It literally hurt my head. I was sad. I I would sit at my desk. I was smart enough. I didn't know what to do, so I did nothing. And eventually, I produced, and then we did MacGyver and Sightings. And I directed a little bit. And then in my But doing nothing, what was that? Doing nothing is not forcing the issue. You if you force the issue like, I I it is a a great metaphor is fly fishing for trout, which I love. You are using a very thin, thin line. And if you force the fish, the fish will break the line, and you will lose it. If you allow the fish to go away, and then you bring it back again, and you let it go away, and you bring it back again. Eventually, you will take a picture with that fish. So so this this sounds great, but it also sounds incredibly difficult to do because you don't know. In in those moments of feeling at bottom, you don't know if there's going to be an uptick. You don't know patience is gonna be off. When you're fly fishing, you don't know if No. When you're standing there if the fish are gonna eventually catch the bait. That's right. You don't know. But here's the thing. And and and as a a short Jew, I am completely obsessed with wanting to know whether or not I'm gonna catch another fish if I'm gonna work again. But I will tell you something, and this is the honest truth. I went for a while, not knowing what what was gonna happen to me in in, very, recently. But I knew one thing. I knew inside me I was not done yet. I was not ready to hang up my spurs. I knew that I have more to do. Jingo. All of a sudden, out of the blue comes this magnificent gift of Barry. So and also, I mean, simultaneously, Arrested Development sort of an on and off. Right. You know, so you had you've you've been involved in that, but, Barry, you're like the main character along the line. Yes. You know, in I'm almost like a guest star on Arrested Development. I I do a few, a year. And and people, thank God, like my character. Mitch likes the character. I only play characters actually that are, that have an association with the name Barry. My lawyer is Barry. The show is Barry. You're Barry Zuckerkorn. Yes. Right. Barry Zuckerkorn, who is the craziest person I've ever played. He's he's hilarious. And I always like, on Arrested Development, the many inside jokes that refer to happy days. So there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's an amazing scene when they fire you and hire Scott Baio to play their new lawyer, and they directly address this because we wanna appeal to a younger audience. Yes. And so it's directly related to Chi Chi rising up and Happy Days. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mentioned this once, Brian Grazer came on the podcast. I mentioned this once to him, and he said, you know more of these inside jokes than I do. So Right. I'm the only actor in the world that has jumped the shark twice. Right. Right. Because you you I mean, just to mention, I find now some people don't know what that phrase is. It refers to that point in a series or anything where it go where the series goes so off theme in in It is outstayed its welcome. Yeah. That that maybe then the show's on its way down, and you literally jump over a shark in a Hollywood you know, your cast goes out to Hollywood for some reason in season 5, and Ron Howard is driving the boat, and I jumped the shark on water ski. And by the way, I love that scene watching it when it happened in 1977, so I don't think it jumped the shark at all, but then it became a common phrase in the popular culture. We were still number 1 for the next 4 or 5 years anyway. Which, by the way, meant 30,000,000 viewers a week. Yes. Right. So so so how do you feel now that media has changed so much? I mean, now, you it's impossible to get I was lucky because, yes, there were paparazzi, but not paparazzi that followed you home. You know, it was not as intense as, as bloodthirsty as it is now. I I was, very lucky, that, I lived in a in a different time, doing the fonts. But but, you know, we I mentioned that there were a couple of obstacles you went through in in your career, and and we talked at first about, you know, you feeling rudderless or maybe typecast during these 9 years. And I wanted, and I know, Stacy, your wife, is in the audience here somewhere. And I just wanted to ask, is this, how did you deal with him being maybe depressed every day? When he gave home? That's a good question. Is that really for me? Yes, for you. Was difficult. Like, how did you support him through that? You guys have been married 40 years. I'm trying to, I'm just engaged. I'm trying to figure out the secrets of a good marriage. I always knew that he was successful. I never doubted for a second that he would work. I I I you know, I could have been insane, but I I just I felt sad that he felt that in order to I think he had set such a high bar for himself because he thought that I think, we're just talking about this this morning, that I think he thought unless he could literally make history again, like the Fonz, that he would not be a successful person. He felt, I think, that he wanted to create another character, do another role that would Or any role. As any role, but that would be perfection, you know, and I really think that he has found this in bearing because I think he's the best he's ever been. He's the most relaxed. I see none of no self consciousness. Did you see self consciousness in his early roles? Sometimes. Yes. I did. What what were you self conscious about? I pushed offered in his skin. I I think that's what I I, well, because I was uncomfortable in my own skin, I was uncomfortable as an actor. It was a, it was like a a, a conundrum Because as an actor, I was able to take risks that I didn't know I could take in real life. But yet, at the same time, as an actor, I was pushy. I would love to have some of those roles back now and to to do them again and do them it took me as I I started saying, when I was 27, I knew who I wanted to be as an actor. And now at 72, I'm getting closer. That's so funny. I I keep thinking, you know, it's amazing to be at at 72, and you have so many things going on. There's, of course, Barry. You have, you know, 30 children's novels. Over 30 children's novels you've written about a dyslexic child. Right. Which brings me to another obstacle of yours. You didn't read your first book until age 31. You didn't even know you had dyslexia until age 31. That's true. How the hell did you memorize lines before then? You know what? I I could read it very slowly, and as I read it, if I was focused, it would go in, especially if it's written well. Something that is written well goes in like you're drinking water. If a script is not written well Because then you could feel it. Yeah. Or you understand it on just on the human terms of it. If it's not written well, if it's just a bunch of words that string together into a sentence and they and some pretentious person is writing a script, you could try and memorize that from now until doomsday. And it just doesn't make sense. It's not going in. It's impossible. Well, you know, you said in one interview, and this connects to advice that Gene gives in Barry, you said that when you auditioned for the Fonz Yes. In Happy Days in, I guess, 1972 Right. You you had to be basically, the Fonz was everything you weren't but wanted to be. That's right. So so I'm always trying to figure out But let me tell you, I was able only to do that when I changed my voice. When I changed my voice, it was like something, I turned a knob inside my body, and I just became a different, a different persona. You know? All of a sudden, I could talk to anybody that was in your room. Hey, listen. Don't you touch me. You know? And then I threw the script up in the air, and I sauntered out of the room. And they called me on my birthday. That was 2 weeks into arriving in California. And they said, would you like to play this character? I said, if you let me show the emotional side, it will be my pleasure. They said, okay. I said, okay. And my life changed. Yeah. Because in the first season or 2, you were sort of more this tough guy, almost I couldn't figure it out whether you were bullying or but then suddenly, there's this real emotional side to you, and and the whole show changed as a result. Like, you became essentially the main character of the show. Well, one of the emotional sides was because, we would do shows according to letters the producers got. One of them was from a home for, Wayward Boys, in Massachusetts. They said, look, the guys here love the Fawns, they love Happy Days, but they won't show any emotion. Could you write an episode where the Fonz says it's okay to be emotional? And that was how That was the time that I cried over Richie who was in the hospital, and I made a deal with God to make Richie get better. That's funny because also there's so many times when the Fonz is emotional where you can't actually express an emotion. Like you say, Lou. You can't say love. I can't say love. I can't say wrong. Or Lou. Ade, you're you're a r r. I was r. You know, and and it's such an easy word. Right? I'm. And But at this point, you didn't even know you had dyslexia. Like, all through your childhood, you were getting poor grades. That's right. I can't imagine what you must have gone through just reading every script. And right up the street from where we are, I went to PS 87 where the little boy that I write about in Hank Zipzer goes to school. PS 87, right up the street. This is my neighbourhood. No, I know. This is Is this a homecoming for you coming to school? I am in shock. I am in shock that I am sitting here, that it has come full circle. That this has been here when I was, a young fellow, and now I'm here, being interviewed by you. So so again, when you were so you you had this dyslexia, which obviously was a huge obstacle. Right. And then you also go through this rudderless time. That's true. And I just, I wanna play, I wanna play Henry to you for a second, just to, let's say he comes home and he says, g*****n it, honey. They they're still sending me that grace script. They keep just thinking of me as a guy wearing a leather jacket. I don't want it. How would you react to that? Well, I'm sure I could have reacted better in hindsight, but it was hard for me to understand because it was very successful. I didn't believe. I I couldn't process that he did not feel like a success. That it just was I Henry used to say it was just too black and white. So I would say, in those days, look in the encyclopedia. You're in the encyclopedia. You made history. Your jacket is in the Smithsonian Institute. When we can you know, on our first date, we were in the car, and Henry was waving at random people. And I was born and raised in Los Angeles and had been around people in the entertainment business all my life, but this was foreign. And I would say, who are you waving at? And Henry would say, how would I know? And this was not normal behavior for me, so it looked to me like he was extraordinary and extraordinarily successful. So it was hard for me to understand what was going on inside of him. And how do you think you survived the marriage survived those 9 years? Well, you know, everything gets, everything gets in its own in its own place. And, what I was professionally didn't translate to who I was on the earth. That was a completely different compartment. And then, our marriage, we had wonderful children, and, I did not feel, terrific. I was always trying to crawl out of a stainless steel cylinder with no handholds, no footholds, and I would try to get to the sun, and I would constantly slip back. At what moment do you think you that period in your life was over? About last Wednesday. Okay. I'll believe that. Yeah. But if you if you don't tell me otherwise I am now a different different human being. I have a different view of life, of living on the planet, of the fragility of living on the planet, of, relaxing into living on the planet. And I have to say that I am a devotee of the sentence, youth is wasted on the young. Well, obviously, you're living a very youthful life. Like, you're more active than anybody I know. So so I have a good time. You know, one of the, pieces of advice you give early on in the in the series, which I thought was great advice, and forgive me if I misquoted, but That's okay. You say, in acting, take take the choice you're afraid of. Right. What's the exact phrase? I can't remember that. You make a choice that, will put you in jeopardy. And, because you have, have have chosen to just step over the line, to step over your comfort level, it forces you to see how resilient you are, how, imaginative you are, how powerful you are in that you can handle what you thought you couldn't. So, like, what's an example in in your life where you did take the choice you were afraid of? I became a producer. I don't like producing. I don't understand business acumen. I, and then all of a sudden, I I realized that, okay, I'm doing this thing. Not only do I not like it, but I don't know how to do it. And I'll just do the parts of it I do know, there is always somebody to help you with what you don't know. Somebody did the business. Somebody did the technical. I did the scripts, the casting, the, the talking to the actors, making sure there was harmony. And all of a sudden, you know, these shows came and stayed for 7 years. Like MacGyver for instance? MacGyver, which is now going to premiere again in for the 3rd year in September. And so what when you were auditioning for the the acting teacher Jean Cousinot on Barry, How in your audition did you do you think when you're auditioning, how am I going to make a choice that I'm afraid of that puts me out of my comfort zone? I did not. Because the whole process put me out of my comfort zone. I was on a razor edge. I had I could not think about how am I going to be good. I could only think about just be here, be here now, and whatever happens, happens. Throw my fate to the wind. And it just turned out that, Sherry Thomas, who is the casting person reading with me, was so supportive. I could feel it. And I I I I don't remember if I I said this or not, but out of the corner of my eye, I saw Bill Hader laugh. I made Bill Hader, who Stacy and I watched on Saturday night live, who we laughed at Bill Hader for years years. I made him laugh. And all it was was just going not with my head, but with my instinct. And so so I wanna know what that means though. Like, so you're in in what what was the difference between what your head was telling you and what your instincts were telling you? Okay. Your head is demanding perfection. Your head is worrying about, am I good? Am I not? Am I funny? Am I not? Your head, it's almost as if your head is trying to distract you from the job at the moment, from the situation at hand. Your instinct is you are going with whatever is coming into your mind. I did a play, after I graduated from Yale Drama School. I went to Cincinnati Cincinnati Playhouse in the Park. And I was in a show called, a play called Incident at Vichy by Arthur Miller. And the director said to me after the after we opened, he said, I had no idea what you were doing in rehearsal. I just couldn't replace you. I didn't have time, and I had no idea this character was going to emerge. You do what comes into your mind. How do you think and I mean, I think this kind of head versus instinct is important in so many areas of life. I'll tell you what. As a as a if you're engaged, and you become a parent, as a parent, your instinct will know everything that is right about taking care of that child. Your head will only know a fraction. Well well but how do you in in in a professional scenario like you were in, like you just described, how do you know to kinda was that an was that an instinct on your part to be able to go into the instinct side of you? I was able, since the beginning of my working career, to beat my head into submission and allow my instinct, my imagination about what I see on the paper, the way it sounds to me inside, what other people in the script are saying about me, what the director is saying, what the writer is saying, and put that all together, and just let it fly. Jump off the precipice and fly. Do you see what the character looks like? I don't. I see him, or, whoever I'm playing, I see him in details, and the beach is made up of one grain of sand. And then all the other grains are there. I start with a detail, and then all of a sudden, one detail attaches to another, and pretty soon I've got an a living organism that turns out to be gene kusanow. I don't even I don't always know how I got there. I, I told, the boys. I told Alec Berg and Bill Hader a story. I told them about being in class with, the the late great, Stella Adler. Stella Adler. The first exercise at drama school was to make a garden in your mind and walk through it so that the class can see what you see. It was my turn. Winkler. And I got up. And I opened the picket fence. And I started to walk through it, and I said, and here, she said, sit down. You see nothing. I said, what are you talking about? I didn't even tell you about my variegated tulips. And the the forget me nots. You want one? Sit down. So what do you think she saw? I don't know what she saw, but I did not allow that to cripple me. I did not allow her to tell me I didn't see the entire, garden that I had. That's so funny because, my my I I do actually have a a daughter from a prior marriage. How old? She's 19, and she's in Stella Adler's summer program right now. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So she wants to be An actress. An actress. Wow. But, one thing you say I'll I'll close with this, well and then I'll also mention one more time, Barry. But, one thing you say is that, in another interview, acting is a combination of concentration, relaxation, and listening. Yes. And Life is listening. The the the, for me, the the center of all relationships is the ear. I have learned that I knew this intellectually, and I am learning this now, on a more visceral level. It does not matter what you meant. It only matters how it lands on the other person. And then you must be, open to that. And then you work that miscommunication out. What's the concentration part? The concentration is be in the moment and do not worry about being right. And, relaxation, I was so worried as a young actor. I literally had 2 costumes for every character. I would sweat through 1, and I would have to change as soon as I got off stage into the other because I was soaking wet. As soon as I relaxed and allowed myself to just be in the situation, I never sweat again. Now, I perspired, but I did not sweat. How did you relax? How did you learn to relax? Will. I wanted to, and it took me 5 years. I did a, a television movie with Sissy Spacek. And I just kind of relaxed in a scene. I wasn't tense trying to be perfect. I was just being there, listening, reacting. And I went, that's what they meant. So so Henry Winkler, once again, several things. Thanks for coming on the podcast. What a pleasure to be here. Barry is a total incredible breakout show for me. Like, I've been constantly looking for, like, what new sitcom can I start watching? This is this is the the show, and and you prove it by just getting nominated for 13 Emmys. You and Bill Bill Hader do such a great job. You, of course, play an incredible acting coach, but also got that vulnerability that's that's so interesting. And, and then just the the arc of your career. You've worked with so many amazing heroes of mine, in addition to yourself being a hero of mine, but everybody on the cast of Arrested Development. Ron Howard was your costar in Happy Days. Robin Williams' first appearance on Happy Days. Yeah. When you when just one final when Robin Williams was on Happy Days, was everybody, like, what the hell is this guy doing? I'll tell you what happened. They couldn't find anybody to play Mork for Mork. It was Gary Marshall's youngest son who gave him this gave Gary the suggestion of having an alien come to Milwaukee. Wednesday, Robin Williams shows up. We shoot Friday. My entire job that week was not to break up and to get out of the way because I knew I was in the presence of greatness. Wow. Truly. That's not even hyperbole. That is, my jaw dropped when I watched this young man take every single thing that happened to him, and suck it in like a vacuum cleaner, and it came out Robin. Well, again, thanks for coming on the podcast. What a pleasure to chat with you. Thanks for being the the Fonz. Thanks for being helping do Barry, which is a great show. I I encourage everyone to watch it. It's, like, my current favorite show. You can see it on, HBO Go. HBO Go or Amazon Prime. Yeah. There's all these places to see it. It's a pleasure to meet you. Nice to meet you. Thanks.
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