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The Jordan Harbinger Show

How do ordinary people become dangerous extremists? Former FBI agent Scott Payne infiltrated America's most violent hate groups and reveals their playbook.

What We Discuss with Scott Payne:

  • Scott Payne worked as an undercover FBI agent infiltrating various extremist organizations, including white supremacists like the KKK and accelerationists such as The Base, which aimed to trigger societal collapse and establish a white ethnostate.
  • Accelerationist groups differ from traditional white supremacist organizations in that they don't believe in political solutions, but train for violence and "Boogaloo" (race war), preparing with tactical gear and weapons while planning attacks on infrastructure and targeted individuals.
  • During his undercover work, Scott encountered disturbing rituals and behaviors, including a goat sacrifice during which members drank blood and took LSD as part of a neo-pagan ceremony associated with white supremacist ideology.
  • White supremacist recruitment often targets vulnerable individuals from broken homes who are seeking belonging and connection, with online platforms like Telegram and Gab serving as recruitment grounds where extremist content can radicalize disaffected youth.
  • Deescalation and communication skills proved to be Scott's most valuable tools throughout his career. His experience shows that even in hostile environments, the ability to talk through situations and remain calm under pressure is often more effective than physical confrontation — a skill anyone can develop and apply to their own difficult interactions.
  • And much more...

Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1132

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The Fighter & The Kid
00:00:00 3/5/2024

Transcript

It's tell them the Jobs Racing Festival we've all been waiting for. And William Hill, we're giving Cheltenham the respect it deserves with a standard offer for all new and existing customers. Get our best odds guaranteed and all Cheltenham races. That's right. Best odds guaranteed at Cheltenham with William Hill. We are children ready? Are you? Bastards guaranteed from 10 a.m. online, only to see the play play responsibly 18+ gambling haredi. Not many men can withstand night punch, punch. Obviously, obviously, for sure, the Senate is going to set a hair on them, black belt and chase chicken heads. I think you'd be surprised. I think you'd be surprised at Canny Fight Club Fight Club's Fight Club. Kids get a piece on the house, piece on a couple. Want to pies? I still got it, baby. Lift your shield ! And now from the Onit Studios in Playa Vista, California, it is the moment you've been waiting for the father and the kid is coming at you. Like, No, no, we're not live. That doesn't make sense, but better when you see a lie. But we're not live. We don't have. And and now it's the father and the kids die. Not like this is not life. Live. Let's do it, baby, come on that, do each other. Let's do each other real hard. Yeah, yeah. All right. Come on now it's Monday, ladies and gentlemen. British shop fresh off the bare knuckle. Well, bare knuckle may game bread game bread productions. How was that? How was that? First of all, I'd like to commend you on on quietly, quietly paying for that guy's family. I can just see you doing it. I can just see you. The guy goes, I want my family here, and I can just see it bugging you and going. How much would it cost? I got to do this. I didn't ask. I was just like, Why aren't they here? It's like, I love Mississippi, man. We can't afford to get it. We can't send it to Brandon. We have the video, can we? I wish more people would bet. I wish people more people knew this. This is very important. How many? How many people Brennan has done this for? Like how much money? How much f**king money Brennan spent on people he doesn't know. And so that is this thing that you never talk about, and it's so ridiculous. But this didn't surprise me that you did this, but you didn't post this either. Somebody the guy he posted, he would never have posted that somebody else even know about it. I literally had to message him and say, I saw this. I know. Good for you, did you? You flew him in. Did he win in front of his family? Here's the thing so my you know, I'm spur of the moment. I'm like, I got you covered. I'm sitting there. I'm like, Who's he fighting? Like your ballot? OK, so he's like, That's one day now that UFC bag a 10 day notice like, OK, OK, well, then I'll fly when he gets head kid Kayode in front of his kids. But what that that winds up there, that that's not really his thing. I figured be OK. He lost by submission. The SEC round had a good outcome. I met the family afterwards. Everyone was fine. If you're going to lose. Great to have your family there. Yeah. And also like at least this is a man who is doing everything he can fighting to keep his family housed and fed, which is which is awesome. His name's Joshua Weems, but his whims? It's a man. Yeah, but his salute to you. He's still Superman. Those kids. They want to see me. He's fine. I. He's getting in a cage and fighting. I'll tell you right now, though, after seeing Cage side having the best view in the in the stadium, in the arena. Yeah, I'm glad I'm on the outside because it's brutal. Oh bud, it's because, oh, you love this, you love this, you'll love this. So favorite part is it's like them telling the fighter stories. So like, I have to sit down, interview all the fighters from prelims to the main event. So you sit down there. One guy comes in, looks on assuming, you know, whatever and I'm looking for. He has the least amount of fights on the card. I go five and three. That's a big step up at five and three fighting game. Brad bare knuckle. Yeah. And his coaches are laughing. What are you guys laughing at? Because he actually has over 135 to it? I'm sorry. What did you say? You know, when he's 18, he moved to Thailand, can throw a punch or kick and got engulfed in the Mai Tai. So his name's Anvar boy. Nazaroff Bubba Bubba, you'll love this. You love this. So I go, Oh wow, that's cool, man. So you did a lot of motivators, just a lot more traffic. And his coach goes, I'll him about the prison fights. I go, I'm sorry. The prison fight, the war in Thailand. Muay Thai so big. One of the things programs that they have are called Muay Thai prison fights. So prisoners, whether they're in there for life, for murder, multiple murders, they train them and then they compete against professional. If they beat them, they get their freedom. And I go on you. Finally, as many times I go, but their their freedom, yet let them win, right? Absolutely not. Now, did you witness, well, how many times you do use a bunch? And I had to go use all chaos. And if you turn this guy up, bring this guy up and then his coach goes, his coach goes. Now think about how hard these prisoners are fighting for their freedom or their freedom goes, and he starts to look every look at him. Oh, well, he looks like he looks like a game. He looks like he belongs in a video game. He's a video game guy, just just a giant head on. The guy who's fighting knock man. 15 seconds of no flying knee knocked on 50 pounds. No, he vainglory. Yeah, he's a monster and he's not short. He's actually kind of tall. He fights up forty five to forty five. A smaller guy. But still, yeah, I was like, How about me? You said, You're a fighter. If I'm three, I said, Man, you have the least experience here, though. Oh yeah, that's your 150 plus fights went, Oh my bad with those elbows and knees. Oh, I went nuts when he knocked my arm. Like, I tried to tell you, this guy is a monster. Yeah, that's a whole different thing. It was so fun. I had so much fun. Really? Yeah, yeah, me. I've hesitated doing anything commentary so long. It makes you nervous. You just make sure the whole thing. But also, like bare knuckle thing is very bloody. How did our boy junior DeSantis do here? Get fired, Allen Belcher, who you know that's his thing. He's a world champion, bareknuckle, and Jada's a good man footwork, and then he surprisingly took Alan down and then that's where he won the fight because in exchange, Alan went to get up rounds a certified black belt savage down there, Alan kicks of wrestler. Before that took out. OK, big time just to go, so he goes to get up and in exchange, get up out there. JDA sits on one left hook. Probably. Yeah, they're big and I kept maybe, you know, and now into the post, he was upset about my commentary and Brownback's commentary. More with Robin than me. But they were mad at your commentary. Well, well, I was just like, I thought you guys were biased. Well, but so I talked to him on the show. We're good. Yeah. But my my whole thing was is like, there's weight class for a reason who given up 20 pounds. So when he took you down, you have a 250 250 pound man on top. To me, an issue he's been, he's about your size junior, right? Yes. Well, I'm too thirty. He's he's 250 on different supplements. You know, I'm saying, yeah, like he's six, five to fifty. Allen's sixty two to like two thirty to thirty one like lighten the pants, even a small twenty twenty pound. That's a lot. Twenty pounds. So that's why I was saying like it. Like, Allen landed a lot of shots, but Junior is 20 pounds on. Yes, it's a lot. Junior is more of a veteran than Allen Belcher overall. Same same same experiment. Oh man. But been fine forever. He's had bigger fights in the UFC. Yeah. Not bare knuckles again. Allen took time off, then came back, got released from the UFC and he's been fighting bare knuckle bare knuckle fight in pro boxing five and pro boxing bare knuckle world champion. Then comes the game bred world champion. Like this crushing monster challenge? No. How old is savage? Forty. Uh, yeah, probably. Yeah. But just like a real general, like everyone looks up to this guy like he's helps a lot of guys out. There's a guy. Tyler Hill was addicted to drugs and took him on his wing and got him sober. He fought like, I didn't like it. Everyone looks to him for guidance like he's a straight up general. That's awesome. But it was cool, man. You loved it. Loved it, absolutely loved it. Did you see Game Red there? Uh, oh yeah. Yeah. What was he dressed like? I mean, he he's a he's a he's a legit promoter. Do you think this promotion has? I mean, there are a lot of people there so packed, really packed. So he's so amazed at all. He's on to something. That's why I want to get involved, like the ones that are already kind of doing their thing and then kind of already made their mark like game. They're working on it. They're big. They have a really big announcement coming up. Cute matter, really, because I feel like the only difference is that there are no gloves. This is bare knuckle, right? That's very interestingly different. It's very internal. It's only legal in Florida, like Tennessee, Mississippi, and they're trying to get legal in New Orleans right now. Does it change that? Does it change the way people fight? It changes like Alan Belcher. The cuts are going to be easier. It's a problem. It depends. You know, it just depends. It changes like guys don't really sit down on their shots and exchanges like you see a lot of one shots because I don't think fans know that a. Maybe some of that be like, you can't be there for the counter because there's no room for error you're in it knocked out. So you won't see like a four point punch combo and someone sit down because when there's gloves you can afford, can't block this block. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, so it's different. These guys are really good at it. Yeah, somebody throws a hook in your hands here. You're going to get caught behind the ear. So it was great. I loved it, absolutely loved it, had so much fun, so much fun, which I didn't think I would. Yeah. And Rob Black's great is great. And once you're in there, I'm like, Oh, great, great. He's really good. Yeah, all of it was the wrong fight. He felt like twice, but he's he's commentate like over. I mean, he must be held a thousand fights. Immunization. Yeah, that's great. He's the best. Yeah, I was I was on. I was on stage. I kept trying to find it and I was watching bare knuckle fighting and I was waiting for and I was like, I can't. He can't kick. And I was like, Man, it was unclear what it was about kicks. You had to have an exclusive deal with Kick. So all the streamers kick an app or pretty much. Yeah, I think so. I don't know whether it's a browser, but I'll take a look. No, it's not a browser. Someone told me I was a browser kick. Yeah, it could be an app as well, but I heard it was about, yeah, but they used it for like, it's a streaming I got to sit through. I think Adrian Ross owns it. I got it through a three hour production of Phantom of the Opera that my daughter's in. And obviously. Well, what was that? Oh no, because you were in the Sun after the love, oh, you're in Louisville, they came here, but I sat for three hours, then I saw Sam's Tripoli do his special. It's a busy Saturday, but the I'll tell you this about when you go to see a high school production, you know how it's usually really amateur. But guess what? We're in L.A.. Yeah, this step, the game up, and it's a whole different level. Yeah, like it'd be maybe a kind of like who would be the best basketball team in America? Like, like going to Sierra Canyon basketball game. And this is like P. Diddy. There you have Drake there. This is limos. Kids are all going to be one. When I tell you I saw these kids in their Broadway level voices. I was like, Are you out of your f**king mind? I couldn't believe it. At the dancing the orchestra, everything. Three hours. Oh, do three hours intermission. How my daughter kept me going. But I can tell you this right now that she's only a sophomore, so she had a small part, you know, she was in the background, but that watching that having to sit through Phantom of the Opera, not my kind of music, not my kind of show Phantom of the Opera. It's not like that kind of music at all. I don't like that kind. Oh, I enjoy it. Lloyd Webber has got a lot of bangers. Yeah, yeah, sure does. Cats is a hard pa*s. Cats is amazing, but I still can't probably sit through. I like memories and then I'm going to be out. It was a long afternoon and it was that night when they do it like six three in the afternoon. So that's when I get daddy. It's nighttime. Three three six. Oh, daddy gets tighter. Yeah, a three. My daughter was up. I'm like, I'm watching my daughter because what character was she? It's chill them. The Jumps Racing Festival we've all been waiting for. And William Hill, we are giving them the respect it deserves. With a stunt offer for all new and existing customers, get our best odds guaranteed and all Cheltenham races. That's right. Best odds guaranteed at Cheltenham with William Hill. We're children ready. Are you? Bastards guaranteed from 10 a.m. online only to to play play responsibly 18+ gambling haredi. She was in the background. She's only she's saying, don't say it lightly. She had a drop. She was great, she adds. She sang, but she's part of the the shoes. The. A lot of different parts of the tree. She was like, There are lights. A huge behind you. She's there. A lot of different parts. But when you see the 18 year olds that are there that are senior level, yeah, singing on a level that I'm telling you is American Idol s**t. You're like, Oh, OK, well, that's just some work to do. Yeah, like a bit. She's a sophomore. She oh yeah. Of course she's not. Give me the starting quarterback. Yeah, that's exactly unless you're an absolute freak that takes work. Yeah, she'll be great. I was a high school drama geek. I was a backup. So give me example, the kid who played The Phantom has there are two Gabriel. He's already been on Broadway. OK, he's already been on Broadway. All right, that's not even fair. I know, like he's out and with with a legit worked and it's L.A. So these kids want to do for a living. Yeah, monsters. Yeah, dude. I took the red eye to fly back because, you know, I'm the coach on the football team and we were the number one seed in the playoffs. You win one game, then we got the Super Bowl. I was a guy. I'm not going to make the first playoff game. I'll make the Super Bowl. I get one hour sleep fly and I take it over here. I'm text my wife. I'm like, What quarter is it? Where is it that they, for whatever reason, there's usually a break between games. They push it like, nope, no break. I'm like, Oh hell, no. Wait, no, in other words, mean, I'm going to miss the first half, at least because usually there's a break and they push. I'm like, No, I'm so mad. Uber driver, right? But then I'm like, Dude, where are you going? My wife's like, there's like three minutes left on my kill. Hell, no. In the first half. No. In the game. So I'm like, Oh no, no, I go, Just stop it. I get out and run with my luggage. I get there. I see just tiger bat down the ball, them celebrating like, okay. And then I gave out their awards. That's a bummer. That's all season, all season. Because the whole season on there, you you're sitting there smiling with your son. And that and it just says we won. Undefeated. We won the championship. You f**k. Oh, my wife was like, That's so aggressive. It's like, that's how guys talk to each other. And then now no. Now baseball season starts today, sports games. Today, you're going to coach for that. You don't know baseball, though, do you? I know the mechanics. Yeah, I played baseball in high school. I didn't play pro outside of football. Way better yet, mechanics, discipline. I'll be out there. That starts today. The first game with the Braves today. So cool is a game today, Thursday, Sunday at baseball's nonstop, nonstop, nonstop. Man and Tiger just gets out on the football field and does does some work it, you know, just as well made for football. The kids, you're talking about it, your daughters play. That's tiger to every other adult watching. Oh, I bet it's like D.K. Metcalf. I went down that rabbit hole his dad played pro football was three hundred and ten pounds. It's like you're looking at a whole different thing. You're like, OK, you know, now you get that meant four hundred race this weekend, ugly Thursday, you got that's about a six eight race. I don't. If you know, I'm in that truck for six to eight, I feel like Tim Kennedy is going to be in that race. I don't think so. No, no. Because I want to be there. I'm going to throw with him and Jimmie Johnson. And he was asking Jimmy for advice. Jimi just said, Just finish. Finish. The race. Got to finish. Got to finish. Yeah, maybe I don't. I would know. Yeah, but I would imagine, right? Maybe the co-driver or something like that. I don't know I would. I'll hit them up. That'd be great. If he is, yeah, I'd be really cool. Yeah, I got to do a thing with Cowboy on Friday. We can cover together. Really? Yeah, his cowboys in cowboy cowboy races like five or six times a month, like he's all it has his own trucks team like big operation. Yeah, cowboys crash. He's crushing aggressive. So how about a new cowboy would crush it so helpful to come and helps him with everything. He's the best. He's the best. He told me he was. He is. He is. We're friends, right? Yeah, I'm telling you right now, man, if I'm behind you, I'm going to run you off the road. I says that lelio's is sure is. He is now. Most guys won't, but I will. He's on playing to win. All right, dude. Be cool, man. I said, Oh, we're just go around. He is absolutely not. Now, Cowboy will f**k him. He's the best. Yeah, he's I'm so proud of him and I love crushing it, dude. He's just one of those guys. An insane career in the UFC. He's just a winner, man. Yeah, you've known him for. I mean, you've known him since he was probably twenty one for a hot right? Yeah, because because I know that, you know, has stayed with him. Well, well, because when I was doing warrior, he was nobody knew him. When I was, he was fighting. Yeah, he was my boy. 145, I believe. And he was or maybe fifty five because he was his manager, Sven and Ring of Fire. I knew him was fighting Ring of Fire when he was 15 years ago. I'm not. No, I've known Callaway every 20 something years. Yeah, that's that's my boy. Yeah, he's the best. Yeah, I know him that. Well, damn, he's so funny. Yeah, he's the absolute no. And now he's like juiced and just the hairs that are here. He's a superstar. I'll tell you how to gain weight. You know, I was like, Damn, dude. Yeah, he's funny, he was a great man, his culture is different, man. They're going to be going crazy over this. It's me while he has kids, you know, this drug gave me the second most famous guy who's first I'll say, B.J. Baldwin's like me. Dumb a*s. I was like, Oh yeah, that's fair for sure. I love is the best I love. I got absolute best. We have big fights this weekend, but big fights Friday. Let me tell you. So just so you know, Tom, Friday you got Joshua, France, Russia and France and got him. Can I get your prediction on that because we're going to talk to somebody about that in a little bit here? Yeah. So you got that Friday and then we got UFC 299, which I think is better than 300. That's this Saturday in Miami. Miami. Well, I'm looking forward to talking to chill about this. Yeah, we're calling in the Big Dog Chill. So who just started new podcast with D.C.? Good guy. Bad guy. Did you see that Nate Diaz didn't call it said that called D.C. not a real fighter? Yeah. What? Hey, Nate, Nate May. It's just not a good. Come on. Losers. Hey. Unless you're a Nate Diaz like, complete credit. Nobody's even if you're a dick, right? I'm a I'm a Nate Diaz dick, right? Yeah, I love Nate. But also sometimes when somebody you can be a dick writer the way I am. And hey, Nate, yeah, that's that's a ridiculous thing to say was wrong. Yeah, I think Nate was just talking. No, that's what he always does. But, but Daniel Cormier, do you see me as a stick up for himself? More. He's like me. People take shots. Doesn't have to stand up for himself. Not a real fighter. He lost. I think he lost a step and Jon Jones twice. And that's it. Undefeated in one of those was overturned. Yeah, thank you. Remember, he was a Strikeforce world champion. Go through the resmi strikeforce light heavyweight champion, then UFC heavyweight monster. No. And then Olympian is the best of all. He's a two. He's a two division belt holder and an Olympian. Yeah, oh. So what else does he have to do to be a fighter? Just curious. Well, it does make sense, but this is I mean, he's so nice until till he's not until you're disrespecting a lot of fighters. Take shots at D.C. he lets it go. He's a commentator, right? I haven't been commentating for two hours and someone's already talking s**t. Yeah. OK, cool. Cool, cool. And then eventually, not a fighter. He'll beat your a*s right now. This your bet your a*s. But the guy's a first ballot Hall of Famer. It's just a bad. It's not. It's just not a good. It's just not a good. Very strange thing to say. Again, I'm a Nate Diaz now. Now, if Jon Jones says it to him, OK. Yeah, if, if if. Well, yeah, Mighty Mouse, Johnson said to Khabib. Like these guys that are at that height of the game, really, whenever they would say it, they wouldn't. Even if they did. Jon Jon Jones, for sure. If GSP says it, OK. But when Nate sets like Bubba, you got him in the same category. It's not even comparable. Now we love Nate. He's a legend is own a different way. Let's say legend loosely different when it comes down to like the nuts and berries of the fight game. This is in a different stratosphere. I don't. But that's not even the knock on Nate or anybody. Not many guys are. No. Two Division Champion. You're in rear air, dude, rear air. But it's not, and it's not a physical fight. When I'm talk about physical fighting, we're talking about resumes. Yes, they're not. Yes. One is over here and the others all the way over here. Yeah, yeah, it's not. It's strange. It was a strange comment. Yeah, but we're talking about it. That's what Nate wants. Yeah, but how is this supposed to come back with something? I mean, if you're DC, you just go like this. Yeah, like, I mean, I go, I go, Nate. Come on now. No. And there's that approach would just be quiet. Do you think DC gets a lot of it? And finally, I'm proud of him. He's like, No, hold on. Hold up. Are you out of your g*****n mind when I'm in the same g*****n category? Sometimes I get the older thing people like. Just be quiet. Let people talk at some point, especially if it's another professional. Yeah, the whole of it all up to call me a b***h. You know what the f**k? I look at my resume. I do. Yeah, like at some point, enough's enough. I'm proud of DC because being fired fire right back. I got to talk to you about this. Let me see fire back. Yeah, OK. Yeah, yeah. Hell yeah, you did. Yeah. He was like, I'm in the same category. Yeah, it's not because people just power DC power, and I'm like, really? They pile on DC. He gets a lot of s**t. You pile on one because he allows impressive figures. Because he allows it. He goes, OK, OK, office is. But when you've done what he's done. They forget, though, they see him as a commentator. It as the YouTube. Yeah, I agree. I almost forgot. That's really the more and more I see him, the more and more I almost forget how dangerous he was in the ring. And you just see this like teddy bear who's like commentating, smiling. And I think you kind of like, I don't say he's soft, but yeah, you that people find out real quick. Let's why don't we break for channel? What do you think? Should we break it? Six. OK, I want to get what we've we brought in one of the big guys where we get too much into Joshua Anthony. We're getting one of the best in the game. Churchill son to break down your see to ninety nine for us. So it's Churchill in everybody. 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Get the job done a year deposit back when you return the item you used, we got your man whatever you're looking for with your car aficionado or an auto note rookie like my boy. Over here, you find employees at O'Reilly. Auto parts are super knowledgeable, helpful and best of all, they're friendly, man. Like I said, I live there. They're the best professional parts. People about O'Reilly. Auto parts are your one stop shop for all things auto. Do it yourself and you can find what you need in store or online. Stop by O'Reilly Auto Parts today. Visit at O'Reilly Auto.com/ fodder. That's O'Reilly auto.com/ fighter jail with the new show with DC, I'm excited for you guys are two of my favorites. It makes sense it's the back of me, I and the good guy. Are you doing that business today? You're doing it via Zoom. Yeah, we did it by Zoom. And how to get out first episode go. I, you know, I thought it was pretty good. We covered like what happened over the weekend, which, you know, I don't know if you I don't know how far you can get covering the Fight Night cards, but yeah, there's not a lot of meat on that. Yeah, but is is DC is DC kind of scared now that Nate Diaz said he wasn't a real fighter because I know he must be emotional and probably a little scared. Pryor doesn't know what to do with himself because, you know, he he got a little worked up over that action. I thought he kind of misinterpreted. I thought Nate was being more playful in DC did, but it seemed like striking a chord. You know, you know why, though chill. And it's like so many guys take shots at DC, you know, it's like, can't see taking shots is commentating his commentary. Cons Taking shots and it's like, Hold on, this dude is a first ballot, bona fide Hall of Famer, so I'm glad he stuck up for himself. You both got a lot of kind of drama going on because Myles at all, who I was with over the weekend, Myles, it all was coming at you now saying, you know, you're not a real gangster. So both you guys are on the chopping block is my my thing about you guys is that you're both white, quite a bit bigger than both those other guys, and I think they're joking around. I think I think there's some there's some ribbing going on. Nate Nate was kidding or he's got to be joking a little bit, right? No hurry wants to fight them. That's why he's doing it. Or he wants a fight you. Or I will tell you, moms will have like the most insincere retirement ever when he did it. Well, it felt like we could all tell him, No, he's not done. He wants to keep doing this. Yeah, I don't know how he wants to fight me or I mean, I'm retired. I don't know how serious he was about that, but I think he does want to do something. And by the way, what happened was a mass brawl and as it got announced, they were going to box, that got announced. But then it got it got ran back. No comment. Its comment. I don't think I'm at liberty to tell when it's happening. I'll tell you off air, but it's out. It's coming. All right. They've got a big announcement coming up big when you do that. But most people actually want to fight Chelsea on it, and that's not true. Why wouldn't you? I don't know. I just feel like chills. Two weight classes. That's got get your blood going a little bit. You've already retired, but that's got it. If you're just, are you still a fighter? It's got to get you going a little because you stay in shape. I saw you. You were every bit of two thirty five. Your head is much bigger than people realize. And I was like, I mean, I've I've spent time with horse and I've spent time with you and you're much bigger walking around and I feel like you're always you're always stand tight. You're always. You're always training. I will tell you, it caught me very much off guard, but I thought it was useful like Mars. But here's here's my rankings whether I'm right or wrong, I know I'm at least closed. Conor McGregor. Biggest draw was world number two. He has number three. I'm at least close on that. So having the second biggest draw in the sport calling you out has to be a good thing. But what do I do with it? I literally was driving my car. Think of What do I do with that? What do I spin that into? How do I get attention off with? Like, What where do we go from here? I'm not sure how we got here in the first place. Right. And yeah, the whole thing was a little bit baffling because he wasn't offering me a fight like he has a promotion and they're paying pretty good money from what I hear. But he wasn't offering me a match. I didn't really know what happened. Maybe just down the road. Maybe, maybe after he gets done with Nate. Maybe you know you'd like to come with you. Who knows? I would tune in. He's doing. I tune it up. And I think it's it's a respect thing too. I mean, you're doing something right? You retired how long ago and guys are still calling you out or your name still in the in the media. I think it's a good thing. But yeah, the real reason we brought you here, not for all this drama and you know, all this gossip. The UFC two ninety nine is this Saturday and then Friday you got Francis, Anthony, Joshua. Let's start with Friday. Anthony, Joshua Francis thoughts on that. I love it. I really do. The most surprising sporting event I have ever witnessed was Francis versus Fury. I have never seen an upset like this, and I understand that Francis didn't win. I have never seen anything like that. Like, talk about, you know, telling children, if you dream, if you wanted to know if you, if you can inspire. I could not believe a guy with zero experience just went 30 minutes with the greatest heavyweight boxer alive. I just couldn't it. Plus, he put him down. One license judge says he won the entire fight. I thought they were going to announce him the winner of the fight. I mean, I'm just sharing for you, but you didn't have the question. Did he overperform and did fury underperform? And that we we really don't know Joshua. Sure. Thought that Francis overperformed. I mean, he had a chance. He had a chance to fight Francis early on. When Francis is going to fight anybody in no contract that you have seen, he sat there with his mouth shut. The second that fight was done, he's jumping up and down, trying to get it. I mean, I thought that was a bit of a scumbag move by Joshua Joshua's been able to fight fury for the last 10 years and somehow has found a way to not fight fury. So, I mean, not not for nothing. I think Francis is the light dog I was with him over the weekend in Saudi Arabia, and I whip it means I saw him. He was in the building that I was in. Well, you know how massive he is. I mean, he is such a specimen. He is just a special looking, intimidating presence. And I generally would never think that he could hold up the conditioning to go 30 minutes of boxing. He just got too much body to move around. And one thing that he did not do against Fury is he did not react to any of Fury's feints. And when they asked Francis about it, they were paying him a compliment. Here you weren't reacting. Don't eat his face. He said. That is it because I was so good, he said I was beautiful, but I didn't want to waste my energy. So that's why I did it. Smart, which I just thought was an interesting comment. But a guy now that he's gone a half hour, 30 minutes out there, now he's in there with Joshua. I think it's a very interesting. I mean, I think Francis beats him. How do you like, Oh, wow, you think you beat on that? I would never pick against Francis ever again, because going into that fury fight, I might listen. Sweet science. This guy didn't have a chance. He has no experience. He's going against the greatest heavyweight to ever do it, in my opinion. But he's surprising element. Surprise, who knows if fury prepared properly for that? Now the cat's out of the bag. Francis can box. Joshua goes, I'll do it. So now Joshua has the advantage. He's watching 10 rounds of Francis actually boxing. So that element of surprise is gone. Yeah, Joshua's going to prepare for the best version of Francis, because now again, the Almas surprise is gone there. So I think there's a much more difficult fight for Francis not saying he can't win. Francis can knock out anybody. Joshua gets hit and I'm rooting for Francis. I just think it's going to be a much tougher fight. I would also say the way, yeah, wouldn't you say? Go ahead, Mr. Francis, if he does lose, like where does he go from there? Does he have a guarantee with the Saudi? Some say that he does. M.A. in PFLAG, that was a hard one to start with, it looks like he has an opponent, but coming off a loss, telling the story becomes a little bit more difficult. I feel like he's he's really in a must win situation, which doesn't have to mean get your hand raised. You know, you can over perform and just beat expectations. But I think he's got to look good. I think it's important that I think, though, is every bit in a lot of ways, probably as strong and hits harder than fury, especially in the inside. That's a tougher fight. Yeah. And I think I think my feeling is this is you might you may very well see that Joshua has just more patterns. He's just a better boxer. He's been doing a longer, better shape, stronger then than fury or just, you know, in terms of just his athleticism and stuff like that and also taking it serious. He's taking it very seriously. So he's got that jab. Remember what he did to to Andy Ortiz in the second fight? Cameron Ruiz, I'm sorry. Great jab on his toes. But he's also got power and he's also got I think Joshua has the ability, as you would know this better than anybody jail because you box for a long time. He he he understands probably how to read what what you know in Ghana's patterns are. He'll figure his patterns to be solid. Tyson and he got clipped. Yeah, I feel that clip in Joshua has been knocked down more than Tyson. Yes, he has. And he gets hit by mile. The only reason why I favor Francis in this fight a little more than I did in the Fury, because Joshua will exchange and anybody who's willing to exchange with Francis. I don't care who you are, Tyson. Joshua Wilder, Usyk. If Francis hits you, you're going down. Yeah. So I'll I'll take that gamble there. I would say that I don't know if this is true. What do you guys think about this? Is Joshua faster? Does he have faster hands than in Ghana? Or is that is that? Am I wrong? Does it even matter? What do you think? You know, when it comes up again against he looked slower against Tyson Fury. But then again, if you see his uppercut when Francis looks like he looked a little slower then than I had seen him in the UFC. Oh. Oh no. See that that that was the surprise to me is Francis boxing look fantastic because in the UFC, he looks very unorthodox, very wild. You look at the rozenstruik fight. He's very wild chins up. I'm like, Dude, Tyson can destroy him, you know, comes out against fury and he's locked and loaded. Good technique. Good head movement. Good footwork. So I think Anthony Joshua again, his advantages. He knows what he's getting. Tyson did it. That's the difference. And back to your original question. Well, if not, maybe a question with your point. If Francis loses, what happens? I think he's won no matter what. So if he just knocks Joshua down, then would make me still support in the box screen is gone. The guy only has one fight. He knocked down the gold medalist, former multiple time world champion Anthony Joshua. This insane. I think the Fury rematch is always going to be there, and I think Deontay Wilder is looking for a dance partner no matter what. So I think he still has those two. No matter what the outcome, unless he gets knocked out in 15 seconds, but if he just puts up somewhat of a fight or has some success. Fury and Wilder are there for him. Mae, I don't think we ever see him in. Hmm. Sure. Yeah, it's hard to imagine. And Francis has told us things over time that we kind of thought, OK, you're not going to able to pull that off, but then he's pulled them off. And just to remind you, he did make a comment that he's got a guarantee, and he only said this one time, but I started away. He says he's got to guarantee Joshua win or lose, guaranteed. He gets the Fury rematch. And, you know, contracts are a little different. The way they're doing businesses is a little different. I don't know for sure that you could hold somebody or for somebody to get in there. But he did make that comment, and I do remember when he said go, Oh, that's that's very interesting. Not to mention when you get guys is so important. I think the Wilder did not look great in his last fight, and Wilder was a leading candidate to fight Francis. So almost if you imagine that they did fight Francis, likely the Francis, the fight fury would have beaten Wilder. That would have been huge. Huge. That would be forget how it is, like you'd say, you were saying he was two seventy two and it's all muscle. Two hundred and seventy two pounds of muscle. Wilder was two to 18 to 19. I think the last time you think about that. That's a huge difference. I mean, it's just a huge difference. As hard as he puncher, France's best matchup is wilder to get like a straight bonafide knockout. Wilder's the best dance partner there. Yeah. So moving on from boxing UFC to Ninety Nine Miami, I think it's a better card than three hundred, a top to bottom. I'm not saying three is bad. Everyone's give me all this flak on. What do you mean? Casual three hundred a good card? I'm not saying it's not a good card. I'm saying for being the 300 event I like to 99 better, which is a personal thing. Are you excited for two? Ninety nine? I am. I'll tell you what I'm surprised about is insane. Denise is a stud. All that nice stuff. I'm surprised that he's a favorite over Dustin Poirier. I'm not. Quite sure what people are seeing. And we've got that old adage in our sport, you're only as good as your last fight. I've heard it a million times. Does the portrait look pretty good in his last fight? Even with that head kick and going down me body is about as tough overnight as you're going to find for a one in five rounds. They, you know, in exchange for taking this on on shorter notice, he got spotted two rounds and I like Poirier in that fight. Man, I'm not sure he doesn't win all five of those rounds, as a matter of fact. Yeah, I agree. But it's also to your point with Ben Centeredness. Remember, talk about a jump up in competition. He beat Matt Parola, the steamroller who's great, but you're gone from beating on ranked guy to the No. What two three guy in the division. And I know he lost to Gaikai, but you're talking about a huge leap in competition and he's the favourite as well, which again, to your point. So it's to me, it's wild that he's such a kind of a bigger favorite over Dustin Poirier. Yeah, and he's going to feel it. I mean, even though that's not the main event is being treated like a main event. I'm poor is going to get the largest reception they made at five rounds. They got a sold out building. I mean, I think that say to me, this is is really up against it. I'm surprised with the oddsmakers there. And then by the way, I don't know if you check this, but O'Malley is officially the favorite as well. And the only reason I bring that to your attention is these guys have already fought. And while the ending was weird so many times, like like as a viewer, there's some piece of psychology, but if you watch something in the ending is weird, you discount everything that happened prior to the ending. I remember Anderson the first time he fought Weidman. Weidman got like a back fist and Anderson had his hands down. And therefore we dismissed the seven and a half minutes that Weidman had dominated that fight to the point that when they rematch, it was the exact same odds two to one favorite for Anderson. So I just bring that to you that I don't know between Chino and O'Malley, like the only they would know, but they have a pretty good idea between them who's going to win that fight? They got a pretty good idea between them. Who wants to win the fight? Who was winning the first fight? They're never going to tell us, but they both know whoever is going to win that fight. The two of them already know, Yeah, yeah, I'm excited for that fight. You know, in sugar just claims it as a win, stuff like that. The main event, for whatever reason to me, is into the story of this card. It's a good fight, but you don't see a ton of hype around the main event for whatever reason. I don't know why, but the race card is stacked like Kevin Hall and Michael Venom page. Kevin Hart pretty, pretty good. Sizable favorite as well. Know why is that because it can't be because of Kevin Holland's striking, I don't think he's the striker, that venom page is a good strike, but is it? Is it his? He's a black belt in jiu jitsu? Is it that? I mean, I think it's up in the air with Michael Venom page. I'd like your input chair. But whenever these guys come over from Bellator AFL, a lot of them struggle. It just it's a different level in the UFC. Like what? What the guys that Kevin Holland have faced, you know, his resume is way tougher than Michael Venom pages, so we don't know how he's going to perform. So I think the odds makers go, we don't know. It's pretty close. We don't know, though. What are your thoughts on Michael Venom page coming over? It's also about five years too late, to be honest. Yeah. Well, he he is such a wildly exciting guy. But historically speaking, guys underperform in their first performance in the UFC for whatever reason. Right off the top, my head is Eddie Alvarez lost his debut, the Cowboys wrote. Goes on to be the champion of the world. It goes on to do a seventeen point two million dollars gate in New York City against Connor. Just, for example, guys. They got to feel it out. It's a little different in the back that shapes a little different. This smells a little different. This sounds. All of the attention, everything that comes with it, it just doesn't generally lend to a guy's best performance. Now, contrary, I think that the matchmakers wanted something favorable for MVP. I think the decision makers picked Kevin Holland because they don't think that he can beat MVP. So, you know, do what you want with that. Think goes, I got to go back to this. Yeah, I got to go back. I know we were on Mars ball and then we got off a Mars brawl, but I got to stay on this real fast because when you did talk about Mars falling, he wants to fight and he wants to go make a bunch of money. He's a really big name. There is one guy that called him out that he did not respond to, and that is Mike Perry. And as far as like a bare knuckle fight for me, that works that would make me excited to stop what I'm doing. Mark, my calendar is just now doing somebody. Shockoe know somebody is losing their teeth in that one. Oh boy, did you guys ever hear a response from us? Although I didn't hear him say anything, and I don't know anybody that calls out mozzarella doesn't get an answer myself. I get Mike's a lot bigger. Mike's a bigger framed guy than, hey, we're in five what it might find. I was just with both the guys over the weekend. The pretty, pretty simple because George right now is not training, but frame wise. For frame wise, Mike Perry is bigger. He fought at eighty five miles an hour, but a. No way could Mike Perry ever get down to fifty five. Never, not if his life depended on it. That makes a huge difference, and especially if you're bare knuckle in the way he fights, where he puts his head down and just starts throwing bombs. Well, Mike and horrified at eighty five. Maybe, yes, we understand, but you. But there's still a there's a frame difference. It just makes it. That's not a reason. What it fight them, though. It's chill them the jumps racing festival we've all been waiting for. 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The National Lottery support responsibly figures based on 2022 financial help fight anybody who will fight anyone. I'm just trying to say that I don't like that. I don't like that fight. I will. I will tell you just just for conversation sake. And it was been five years but petrified of two different weight classes in the UFC. Fifty five and seventy four fight above 70, he did just to remind you he fought a fifty five year. Yeah, he was straight up. Oh my God, my partner and seventy. Well, but he seems big and you know, then he goes and he gets in there with Luke Rockhold and he seems big but thick. Yeah, yeah, that's that's actually your mind playing a trick on you, man. Those guys are around the same time. Yeah, they are. I want to go back to Sean O'Malley in Maryland. Very, very. You guys don't seem that excited. My my I am so excited about the thirty five pound weight cla*s. I think Sean O'Malley has that magic sauce, that thing where he just he fights his best when all of it is on the line. Like, there's something about that guy that's a championship kind of gear that he has, that he seems to prove over and over again and more. Oliver's obviously, as good as it gets, probably a little more conservative, a fighter, a little bit more fundamental in his fighting then than would be Sean O'Malley. I don't know how to how to categorize that, but but are you saying that they already you were saying they already know who's going to win that fight? What do you mean by that? They really fought? Yes, but but that was Sean's. Sean's foot died on that fight, right? Well, why did it die? Right? Well, he got checked out. Yeah. Be sure. Yeah. You watched that fight. He got beat. Yeah. But he says, does Shawn get better and better every time he shows up? That's what it feels like. He feels like a winner to me. Yeah, I mean, like that old expression. Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it. Like some guys stopped themselves from reaching certain potential. You know, the lights get too bright. I was in Boston when O'Malley fought Algeo for the title, and I remember him stopping before returning, going to the cage, and he addressed the crowd and he did one of these numbers. But it was a standing ovation. Seventeen thousand four hundred people were on their feet for him. Yes, there was no boos, there was no one against him. It was unbelievable. And he went out and had the performance of a lifetime and I kind of thought, OK, he caught Algeo, and Algeo spoke about it afterwards and said, No, that guy's faster. That guy's got angles like I've never had to deal with, and I'll just really put him over and I go, Oh, wow, OK, that's I thought I saw a really good performance. That's right. This is this is going to be both of these guys have high fight IQ and this this feels like it's going to be a striking match, right? My my thing, I just keep thinking about the last. Well, yeah, I keep thinking about Mirror, but I keep thinking about, well, that's why I was going to say, like, let's say, the favorite wins here. Let's say Sugar Ray to get over on Cheeto. What's waiting for a sugar is a nightmare MRI. How do you solve that wrestling problem, shell? Yeah, that is an interesting one, and we don't end up in this spot very often where we have the number one contender identified before the title match takes place. And then just over the weekend, you know, we see Nurmagomedov, who is a perfect monster. Yeah, whatever that is, he's calling out Sandhagen, who's deserved the title shot for two years now. It just hasn't gotten one like that. Division's a mess. And one thing about this sport, as we fiercely adhere to whatever rules we make up as we go. Like, let me just give you guys a scenario, OK? But Rob's going to fight the winner of Cheeto versus Shawn. Now one thing that is not considered when that statement is made is that Cheeto upset Shaun? Yes, it would be very similar to give you an analogy, but when Izzy was getting ready to fight Sean Strickland, he's going to fight duplicity next. Well, that's unless Strickland beats, and then they wanted to rematch. So I'm just saying like, it's one of those things you don't know. And then if you don't want to fight Rob, you think he's a bad matchup. I imagine that I'm sure Sean O'Malley. I have a great performance. I've got the microphone. There's the guy in the front row that everybody thinks I'm going to call for and we're going to do an organic face off. I turn and point to him. I say, Man, this guy is like a brother to me. I love him. I've never brought this public before this one of my best friends in the whole world. I'm not going to put you on the spot, but you, Cory Sandhagen, right down the barrel of a camera. All of a sudden, Rob is on third base wearing a catcher's mitt. I want my stuff back. That's a good way. That's that's no. No, that's interesting. There's got to be a smart guy to do it. But I mean, I'm just sharing for you. You don't have to play along with this script. Nathan Flip, it tells me O'Malley is not going to play along. I don't think you're going to play along. Really, he was. I'm an entertainer, Merab, until he saw the kind of the backlash online because remember, he called out to appear here. He's coming out to appear after and he's like, That's the next big fight that scares me the most. And fans like, Nah, bro, Morobe just destroyed Cejudo. He's a guy. I guess fans won't see that, so I wouldn't be surprised if sugar flipped the script to your point in cause that topic or something like that. So, so so when it comes to if you look at someone like MMA, Rob's wrestling, OK, which is my wrestling. It's Russian, it's it's sambo, it's Greco, it's freestyle. He's got this whatever he's doing up there, I feel like and I'm just going to say, I'm going to, I'm going to say, make a statement and I want you to tell me if I'm right or wrong. I feel like the reason guys like that. Like, for example, if you watch the way Khabib, what he did did just engaging. You know, when you look at a guy who's been doing that Russian system and he comes across a guy who's been a folk wrestler or just a freestyle guy, you're getting looks, you're getting looks you've never seen before. So someone like Merab is doing things that you've not trained against and you've not prepared for. And I feel like sometimes you've been speaking French and a guy comes out, you speak in Chinese and now you have no idea what the hell is going on and you're on your back and you keep stand on your back. How do you prepare for someone like Merab? But you just bring in as many Dagestani as you can, as many Russians as you can, so you get those looks. I think Conor did that with Khabib did actually pretty well for a while. Kept him from keeping his buddies put his hands together. So how do you prepare for something like that? Yeah, those real greats that have found a way to weaponize pace. Like, I mean, Randy Couture was the first one to do it in our sport and then that got George St-Pierre started to do it. Maybe even bring Ouseburn, but guys that will just throw more shots at the board than anyone else. That's what MMA Rob does. Like, before you get to who's better at boxing, who's better jiu jitsu, you got to keep him off of you. You got to have a little bit of space. There's no time to set anything up. There's no timing. Cain said that he put his head in your chest and just keep moving. He was 100 percent crazy. Yes. No. What were they call it? Like cardio or something like crazy? Or you can even break it down. You had to first deal with this intangible. I mean, that was the huddles big problem going in with MMA, Rob. It's not necessarily who is a better wrestler. He's going to throw five times the wrestling at you. How are you going to deal with it? And I mean, I just support what you're saying, like, that's a really hard guy to plan for. If you don't have a great wrestling base as well as a great cardio base, I mean, it's a mess to your point. On the pace, I think, is the pace. It's not that they're doing things they haven't seen because I've seen it all before. It's just a relentless nonstop. I didn't realize that here, here, here and then you're defense this. He's over here. They've seen it before. No one's doing any wrestling move. No one's ever really. No, OK, these guys seen it all, but it's just the relentless pursuit one after the other. Eventually, there's like Jesus, O'Malley, O'Malley. If O'Malley has a very good shot against Merab, though, because Merab, I don't think is the striker that he is the wrestler. I think Merab striking well, he I think O'Malley could knock them out if he tried to stand and bang because the guy who has the striking, who has the striking is Umar Nurmagomedov. He's got that striking. He's got all. He's got crazy striking. He he is a combination of Jose Aldo and the Machida. If you look at a reasonable price, yeah, I'm saying it. Well, I remember I said this, I to say this right now. Omar Sharif and his brother is not there. No. Umar Nurmagomedov most striking is as good as anybody in the case in the UFC right now. He does it all. He doesn't get hit watches and watch him fight. He doesn't get hit. He's got the boxing, he's got the kicking. He's going to he's going to keep you question mark, kick you low, kick you, wrestle you. He's got the best. His wrestling is as good as anybody. He's got world class wrestling. It's crazy. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's a huge compliment. I'm a dick rider. I'm a rider on him and his brother. I also think he's very good. He's ranked number 13 right now. So his game, like he's 16 at no and right number 13, his game same as so many other guys is he's got to get up in the loft with some of those bigger name guys. Yeah, we don't know. I think calling out Sandhagen was a very good point. But again, let's just go back to him. If I'm O'Malley and I win and I've got a rematch, one of these guys, all of a sudden you're delay in that rematch a little bit. And then I'm going to come up with the idea that MMA rob fight Nurmagomedov. You guys fight going well at all. Give me one. I love that. I love it. I think it's very sellable. One hundred percent that is. There anybody else on the card that you're excited for it? I mean, Curtis Blaydes vs. Almeida is a good one. I think there's title implications there, especially for me to wear to win that one. I think you could see them fight Tommy Aspinall for the intern belt there with what's going on with Jon and Steve. Obviously, that needs to get done before anything happens. So I think there's big title implications between Blaydes and Almeida could be serious about that. Like when I watch on me that he isn't going to come across, take, you know, with that double, I'd be impressed if he could pick up Curtis Blaydes and take him down for 15 straight minutes like that would really impress me, and I feel as though somebody has put a block on Curtis Blaydes. I mean, stylistically, he really is a nightmare for everybody, including Jon Jones, but he's had a really hard time giving us his push. Yeah, I asked about that a few times and somebody told me that he stutters that he doesn't like to do interviews because it embarrasses him, because he stutters. I don't know if that's true or not, because I haven't heard him do interviews. I had him on food trucks. I had him on food truck and he stutters. But it's not. It, you know, and you can tell it like it's an issue form, but it's nothing like that. Like you where you like, Oh, we can have sky camera like really smart guy. Dad's a cop like Chicago born and raised like, there's a story there. You just got to tell it. But as far as his stuttering being a reason not to put him in front of camera, I don't see it. He was great. Great. Yeah, and he is good. I mean, he goes out whether whether there's a work stoppage or not, but he beats aspinall. I mean, when when the other night comes, they raised, they raised his hand. Blues. Yeah, yeah. It was like 20 seconds all through a couple of kicks. He fell down. He hurt himself. But I mean, I'm just sharing for you. It seems a little weird that Curtis Blaydes is now opening a card, while Aspinall sitting out there with a belt like sometimes there's guys that just have a hard time getting behind. I think that Curtis plays is a tough night out. That's what I'm trying to say. I'm trying to compliment Curtis here, whether my words are coming out, but I do think that Almeida is maybe next. He checks a lot of boxes. He's a handsome guy, appears to be courageous. He's the next Brazilian that they're getting behind and pushing. I think it's a very meaningful matchup for rankings. Agree. Agree. That's the does the 10 the biggest one on that undercard there. But is there a fight that you want to see? Is there a fight that really gets you going that you just you, if you could, if you could do a dream matchup, do you have one in your head? Well, I fell for everything at UFC 300. Like this huge announcement that was coming. I got pulled it out. Oh my god, George St-Pierre is coming out of retirement and he's going to take on Khabib. Like, I was falling for these things, or you made a video of it to every video like have to go to this big announcement every week. I was talking about, you know, he's he's training with Khabib and could be never trained with him unless he's got to fight kind of like this. These things I was paying very close attention to. I do like the idea of, you know, I like the idea of a champion of champion coming in in a in a meaningful match, whether that was against freakiest or that was against Strickland. But some of those top guys I like to see tomorrow stay a little bit more busy. There's rumors that he can't get around and the visa issues, those haven't been confirmed, but they appear to be true. Yeah, it's a good time to be a fight fan. Bryan, I kind of danced around your question there just because I've been I've been seeing so many great highlights. But yeah, right now for the ones that are signed right now, the biggest one is for me is Gage vs. Holloway. Oh, really? See that? That doesn't interest me. It makes no sense to me now because Max Holloway to appear here, that's the move in Spain. Yes. But now they hurry to make the match three hundred like BMF title. Let's be honest, this doesn't mean much the winner of that fight. It does it. Nobody move. You go nowhere. So no, not now if Max Holloway suffers damage from Gage, which is more than likely to happen. OK, well, he's not fighting to appear anytime soon, so that fights out the window. Justin beats a one. Forty five. OK, yeah, I just don't see. It's I think it's exciting for the fans, but it just it doesn't move the guys anywhere to me. And if you were speaking of one forty five, a hard question would be What do you do with bulk? What do you predict? What are they going to do with? I think in his arrest now, now I'm on the on the fence of, you know, he's a legend, maybe the greatest of all time. He deserves an immediate rematch. The problem is, if gear is ready to go and say four or five months, that's not enough time for me. I think Vogue needs to rest after two knockouts, let him rest and then come back when he's ready to go. So, yeah, forty five stuff. And with topiary, it's tough. So let's sure they want to do it. In Spain, you need a big name, you know? Also out there is that that thing where you're you're at 145 speed really does play a much bigger factor reaction time than it does. Say it heavyweight. You can. You have a longer career at heavyweight and some would argue he's thirty five years old. He's done incredible, incredible things in that cage. And you wonder at times if after getting knocked out twice, you know, you've got to take a long time, you've got to take a long time to really ask yourself whether or not you want or you, you believe truly in your heart that you're still able to get that belt back. And if you look at the history of that weight division and you look at people thirty five and over, that's that's a tall order. If anybody can do it, it's Volkanovski. He can do kind of the impossible. So I'm never going to bet against him. I didn't bet against him, against the poor. Yeah, he's earned the rematch. He's there. Of course, he's earned the rematch 100 percent, to your point. I would love to see him take a long time because I do think I do think you risk when you get knocked out now, you know, taking the risk to get knocked out again. There is that glass jaw thing where your brain shuts off. You know where you wouldn't get knocked out normally, but your brain goes to been here before I'm out. I don't want to do this anymore, and I think that's I don't think it's worth it. I think it's worth he's earned the right to take a long time off. JL, you work in the UFC does this weekend in Miami. Yes, I'll be there. I'm leaving and leaving in two days, I'm excited for it. I mean, I think there's something there with O'Malley follows attention, man. Oh yeah. I'm excited for it. We appreciate. We know you're doing a million things right now. The episode with DC just came out new podcasts. Good guy. Bad guy. So we appreciate you, brother. You're the best. I appreciate you both. And I've had it with you both. Goodbye later, brother fell silent. Let's take a break. Let's take a break from chatting with the gangster. See that right? The American Gangster. Yes, that's true. Oh, the shirt ! Hey, come on. I didn't know it was a replay of a nice chest now. I thought I was worried for packing plants negative because when I wear my true classic T-shirt to lead, pack and play, you're right, due to my chest, my arms and it hangs loose. These joggers, this is all that is. I'm sure you see with Mike Perry over the weekend. That's all true. Classic classic. This is true classic. Let me see. Oh yeah. These are true glasses in my undies and their true classic. Yeah, it's just not only do I always have something for. Not only do they make the best T-shirts on the planet, but you're talking about joggers, crew, neck sweaters. They got hoodies. They got button ups. I was rocking a black leather backs, two and premium packs, and you've got them in packs. You can start with a two or a three pack of T-shirts today. Just feel the difference for yourself. Just don't take our word for it. All the shirts are made to. They're made to hug the arms and your chest look jacked. Yep, they give you just a amount of room for your tummy section. And the best part is true. Classic sells are premium products and packs. Like Brian said, to help you save get started with a two or three packs can pick a color white, black gray. That's what I like. They got them all and you can decide yourself whichever one you love. All you got to do to get on board a true classic. The best in the game. Got a true classic e-commerce class fighter, and you can save up to twenty five percent off the best fricking clothes ever. Yep. All right. No matter how you move, make 2020 for your most comfortable year yet with true classic. That's true. Classic e-commerce last. Buy her all your clothing needs. Hey, I'll tell you what you want to know about progressive insurance. I sure do. That's why this episode is brought to you by progressive insurance, man. Look, the one stop shop auto insurance is about right here. It's called the Enter. Enter the name your price tool from progressive. OK, the name your price tool puts you in charge of your auto insurance by working just the way it sounds. You tell Progressive how much you want to pay for your car insurance. Then they'll show you a variety of coverages that fit within your budget, giving you options. Now that is something you want to press play on. OK, it's easy to start a quote, and you'll be able to choose the best option for you fast. It's just one of the many ways you can save with progressive insurance. So I'll tell you what 28 million drivers trust progressive. Let me say that again 28 million drivers. That's a lot of drivers. They got to be doing something right. Get a quote today at progressive.com, right to try your name your price tool for yourself. Progressive casual insurance company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Progressive Insurance. You're welcome. We on the bad guy to break down your C to ninety nine. I learned something new. My pair never fought in eighty five. I love when you ugly guys like me and you like really? Are you sure? All right, man. Yeah, that's you. Don't fight it. If you know what I was thinking about the UFC that I would think of him without Luke, you know, and I was like, Oh, yeah, yeah. All right. Well, goodness. Let's see here. Yeah, but yeah, you did fight, obviously. You have a 777. Yeah, he's known as a fifty five thousand seven hundred fifty dot. All right. Well, all right, that was great with you. Love it. US the best. The 100 percent the best. Go check out his show with DC, the good guy and the bad guy on ESPN these days. Charles taken over is everywhere. He's in Saudi Arabia as well. He's the best of the best smart man. So enjoy UFC two ninety nine. I will be at the Mint four hundred in Las Vegas. If you're out there, come holler at your boy. Come see me in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I will be in Tulsa Bricktown Comedy Club March 15 16 and then the Improv April 19 and 20. I'm excited and thanks for coming out in Louisville. That was a lot of fun. I had a great time. Nice brother. Enjoy the fight. We're out. Pluto TV is TV the way it should be free with over 300 channels, thousands of movies and TV shows costing zeros of dollars. So if you want to watch shows like Ghost, The Walking Dead, CSI, Star Trek or the price is right, well, the price is right. It's free hit movies like Braveheart, Sonic the Hedgehog, Anchorman The Legend of Ron Burgundy, or Mean Girls won't cost you a thing because everything is free. All you have to do is download the app, which, by the way, is also free. Pluto TV. Stream now. Pay Never. Sometime in the early 80s, Oreos Speedwagon Airplane made an unannounced middle of the night landing. This is my friend Kyle McLaughlin, the star of Twin Peaks, and he's telling me about how he discovered a real life Twin Peaks in rural North Carolina, not far from where he filmed Blue Velvet. What was on the plane was copious amounts of drugs coming in from South America. Supposedly, Pablo Escobar went looking for other spots quiet out of the way places to bring in his cocaine. My name is Joshua Davis and I'm an investigative reporter. Kyle and I talk all the time about the strange things we come across, but nothing was quite as strange as what we found in Varnum Town, North Carolina. There's crooked cops, brother against brother. Everyone's got a story to tell, but does the truth even exist? Welcome to Varnum Town. Varnum Town is available wherever you listen to podcasts. It's tell them that jumps racing festival we've all been waiting for. And William Hill, we are giving Cheltenham the respect it deserves with a standard offer for all new and existing customers. 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Past Episodes

On today?s episode, Jonathan is joined by David Ferrugio of the Dead Talks podcast for an in-depth conversation about the nature of death and how to cope with loss. After sharing his harrowing and heartbreaking personal experiences with the 9/11 terrorist attacks as a child growing up in New York, David and Jonathan discuss how the cultural conversation is finally evolving to better help men deal with and understand grief. Later, Jonathan shares some insights into what it is like for him to perform his readings, how he started working as a professional medium, and his methods for overcoming skeptics. Be sure to check out David?s podcast, Dead Talks, at deadtalks.net or wherever you get your podcasts. And as always, if you want to connect with Jonathan, you can follow @jonathanmarkmedium on Instagram and send him a DM, or drop us an email via connectjonathanmark@gmail.com. This is a Redd Rock Music Podcast IG: @reddrockmusic www.reddrockmusic.com
00:44:05 3/10/2025
On March 31st, 2024, David Gibson was shot in his home in front of his eldest daughter. Today, Jonathan speaks with his wife, Anbria, to tap into the late father of three. After reviewing the night of the murder with Anbria, Jonathan is able to identify a person of interest to the case. Finally, Jonathan and Anbria discuss how this terrible crime has affected not just her family, but her entire community. If you have any knowledge that might help the investigation into the death of David Gibson, please contact Detective Terry Butler at tbutler@ci.mansfield.oh.us or by calling 419-755-9725. And remember, if you want to connect with Jonathan, you can follow @jonathanmarkmedium on Instagram and send him a DM, or drop us an email via connectjonathanmark@gmail.com. This is a Redd Rock Music Podcast IG: @reddrockmusic www.reddrockmusic.com
00:00:00 3/3/2025
In this episode, Jonathan dives back into recent true crime cases with our first international guest. Today?s guest, who chose to remain anonymous to protect the integrity of the investigation, lost her mother in 2022. On February 17th, Traie Olsen was last seen refueling her car at a gas station outside of Brisbane. Her abandoned vehicle was later discovered, but her body was never recovered. Now, Jonathan taps in to shed new light on the case. If you have any information on the case discussed in today?s episode, please call Crime Stoppers Australia at 1-800-333-000. Finally, if you want to connect with Jonathan, please follow @jonathanmarkmedium on Instagram and send him a DM, or drop us an email via connectjonathanmark@gmail.com. This is a Redd Rock Music Podcast IG: @reddrockmusic www.reddrockmusic.com
00:00:00 2/24/2025
Jonathan meets with Lacey Allen to tap into her husband?s grandfather, Richard E Jackson. Richard died under mysterious circumstances in Gloversville, NY on Mother?s Day (May 10th) 1981. After explaining why this case feels personal to him, Jonathan connects to Richard to unearth new details about his suspicious death, and understand why only perfunctory investigation was done at the time. If you know anything about the death of Richard E Jackson, please reach out to connectjonathanmark@gmail.com. And remember you can always follow Jonathan on Instagram via @jonathanmarkmedium. This is a Redd Rock Music Podcast IG: @reddrockmusic www.reddrockmusic.com
00:00:00 2/17/2025
Testing the limits of his abilities, Jonathan tackles his coldest case yet, the unsolved murder of Odessa Meister. After her body was recovered in 1952 with signs of blunt force trauma, her husband was considered a suspect despite being the one to report her disappearance. Today Jonathan is joined by that suspect?s granddaughter, Anna Zambreny, to try and exonerate her family and unearth new clues about the murder of Odessa Meister. If you have any information regarding the case of Odessa Meister, please contact the Maryland State Police at 410-653-4211. And as always, if you want to connect with Jonathan and possibly be a part of the podcast, follow @jonathanmarkmedium on Instagram and send him a DM, or drop us an email via connectjonathanmark@gmail.com. This is a Redd Rock Music Podcast IG: @reddrockmusic www.reddrockmusic.com
00:00:00 2/10/2025
Today Jonathan speaks with retired FBI agent Richard Frankel. After some background on Rex Heuermann and the Gilgo Beach murders, Jonathan dives into a fascinating conversation about the view from inside the bureau. Richard Frankel shares details about how the FBI academy training is like ?college with guns and driving,? his involvement with the Long Island serial killer investigation and other major cases, and how social media can hinder or help an investigation. If you want to connect with Jonathan and possibly be a part of the podcast, follow @jonathanmarkmedium on Instagram and send him a DM, or drop us an email via connectjonathanmark@gmail.com. This is a Redd Rock Music Podcast IG: @reddrockmusic www.reddrockmusic.com
00:32:21 2/3/2025
Today, Jonathan catches up with Nichole Schmidt of the Gabby Petito Foundation. Together, they discuss how to spot the warning signs of domestic violence and why the Gabby Petito case resonated with so many in the true crime world and the wider media. Later, Jonathan reveals that he?s ?not a crystal guy.? If you or someone you know is dealing with domestic violence, you can contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline 800.799.SAFE(7233). Finally, if you have information on the Gabby Petito case, you can reach out via X (@gabbyfind) or Facebook (facebook.com/gabbyfindthemissing/). You can learn more about the Gabby Petito Foundation here: Website: gabbypetitofoundation.org Facebook: facebook.com/gabbypetitofoundation Instagram: instagram.com/gabbypetitofoundation/ X: x.com/gabbsfoundation Tiktok: tiktok.com/@gabby_petito_foundation YouTube: @gabbypetitofoundation And remember, if you want to connect with Jonathan and possibly be a part of the podcast, follow @jonathanmarkmedium on Instagram and send him a DM. This is a Redd Rock Music Podcast IG: @reddrockmusic www.reddrockmusic.com
00:37:07 1/26/2025
Today Jonathan meets Yvonne Devries, whose son Max Devries disappeared in 2004. After detailing the persistent mystery of what happened on the waters of Aruba that fateful day, Yvonne and Jonathan discuss memories of Max. Later, Yvonne and Jonathan detail how to keep attention on a case after the media spotlight has moved elsewhere. If you have any information on Max Devries or if you want to reach out to Yvonne about the case, you can contact her on TikTok at @ycdevries or on Facebook via the Max to the Millions group. And remember, if you want to connect with Jonathan and possibly be a part of the podcast, follow @jonathanmarkmedium on Instagram and send him a DM, or drop us an email via connectjonathanmark@gmail.com. This is a Redd Rock Music Podcast IG: @reddrockmusic www.reddrockmusic.com
00:27:08 1/20/2025
Today, Jonathan connects with Francie Wayland, a private investigator, to discuss a case with great personal significance to her. Her friend, Tara Breckenridge, disappeared from the Houston area on August 3, 1992. Police had a suspect, but Tara?s remains were never recovered, and no arrest was ever made. Now, over 30 years later, Jonathan taps in to Tara in order to uncover new leads on where the body may be hidden, and why it has taken so long to find her. If you have any information on the disappearance of Tara Breckenridge, please contact Francie at ATX Investigations, 512-900-5817. You can also email Francie at Francie@ATXInvestigations.com. And remember, if you want to connect with Jonathan and possibly be a part of the podcast, follow @jonathanmarkmedium on Instagram and send him a DM, or drop us an email via connectjonathanmark@gmail.com. This is a Redd Rock Music Podcast IG: @reddrockmusic www.reddrockmusic.com
00:31:25 1/13/2025
On today?s episode, Jonathan meets with Amelia Courtney, a podcaster investigating cold cases in the Tennessee area. After an unexpected reading, Amelia gives some background on the murders of Carla Atkins and Vickie Stout. Later, Jonathan and Amelia discuss some of the challenges unique to bringing true crime cases to public attention, whether that is dealing with a mixed reaction from law enforcement or a sudden avalanche of dubious new tips. If you have any information on the murders of Carla Atkins and Vickie Stout, please contact the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation's (TBI) at 1-800-TBI-FIND. You can hear more from Amelia by following her podcast, Murder At Land Between the Lakes. And as always, if you want to connect with Jonathan and possibly be a part of the show, follow @jonathanmarkmedium on Instagram and send him a DM, or reach out via connectjonathanmark@gmail.com. This is a Redd Rock Music Podcast IG: @reddrockmusic www.reddrockmusic.com
00:35:17 1/6/2025

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