The Schwarzenegger Effect (The Adam and Dr. Drew Show Classics)

Transcript

What makes a murderer's mind tick killer psyche is a true crime podcast from Wondery that explores these types of questions about the crimes that killers and criminals commit. Killers like you covers high profile cases that have shocked the world. Candice DeLong uses her five decades of experience as a clinical psychiatric nurse and FBI criminal profiler to dissect the motivations and behaviors of the most terrifying felons in history. You'll definitely want to listen to a recent episode of Killer Psyche, where Candice explores the case of Pedro Rodriguez Filho, also known as Killer P.D. or the Brazilian Dexter. At age 14, Rodriguez murdered the deputy mayor in his town, all because the mayor had fired his father. Rodriguez went on to murder, by his count, more than 100 people, most of them while he was behind bars. To many, he was a hero, a vigilante seeking justice for victims, but to others, he was just a cold blooded murderer. This case is one of a kind, and I love the way Candace explores it for our listeners. If you're like us and love true crime podcasts, listen to Killer Saikia on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or you can listen add free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. As host of strictly speaking, we discuss topics that can be triggering and believe therapy is a great tool for anyone going through a difficult time. I've used therapy because I like having someone neutral to talk to my life. I like talking to my friends about things, but sometimes it really helps to have an outside point of view. If you need a little support to help you through at the end of the year or want to start building towards a better upcoming year. Talkspace is here to help match the licensed therapist. When you go to talk Spacecom and get $100 off your first month with the promo code stonking, that's $100 off when you use code stalking at Talk Space.com. Jamie, what are some of your biggest fears? You know, one of my biggest fears is like being watched while I am home alone. I mean, I think it's the source of so many lifetime TV shows horror movies. It's out there. Do you know why it's the source, because these things actually happen, which is totally chilling and like raises the hair on my arms to even think that someone could be like living in your house and you don't even know it when you rent a property. Oftentimes, there's going to be maintenance people. There's going to be people with access to your apartment, maybe a building attendant. These kind of things happen. So if something started disappearing from your house or your apartment, what would you think? How would you piece these things together? I don't. I'm not home a lot. I'll think I put, you know, my sweater on the chair, but really, I put it on the bed or little things like that I would never notice if things started disappearing or getting moved around. I don't know how long it would take me to realize if I was slowly like losing underwear in my house. This is someone who came from a small town. She felt very safe and secure, you know, never locked the doors. You know, neighbors maybe come in and out of the house. This is one situation where she moved to a new place. She moved alone. She moved to the big city and it was kind of a daunting experience for her. But she didn't really piece all these things together at first. And to be fair, most people wouldn't. Well, what was the ultimate goal? Was he there to hurt her? Was he there just to watch her? Was he going to abduct her, rape her, kill her? I mean, like, sky's the limit for this guy. Many people would have thought this could have been a sorority prank, or this could have been one of her friends playing games on her, even when she told her friends and they laughed at her. Most likely, she could have suspected that as a joke, but in reality it was far more serious. She said, Listen, some of those apartments, they have an attic access in the closet. You need to see if you have an attic access in the closet. And I thought, no way. That is terrifying to even think about. There's no way somebody is actually in my eyes. She's like, Well, your dog was barking at the closet. Just go check and see if you have one. They're not in every apartment, but some of them. They have to get up in the attic. Like, I didn't even know that we had attics in these apartments. She said, Yes, there's attic. Just when you get home, check in your closet and see if there's a attic access. So I get home. The first thing I do is go in the closet, and to my doom and dismay, there's a hole in the ceiling and for an attic access. It's not even secured. There's like a broken piece of wood that is just sitting on top of the hole they had. You could tell it had been broken in half at some point. And just somebody I could put it back together and set it on top of the hole. It wasn't sealed. It wasn't locked. Nothing. It was just this little piece of boards sitting on this hole and. I'm Jamie B-BBEE and I'm Jake Deptula. And today's episode of Strictly Stalking, we're chatting with Heidi, who was stalked by a man hiding in her attic after moving into a new apartment, Heidi noticed her underwear and bras started to go missing. One night, she came home to find the sliding glass door to her balcony wide open while walking her dog. Later, her cell phone went missing and her Facebook was hacked. She initially brushed things off, but then she received phone calls from a block number where the caller would breathe heavily into the phone. Finally, she went to the police when she started hearing banging on the ceiling every night and her dog constantly barked toward her closet. Police discovered holes in her ceiling, where she found out her stalker was watching her. They also found a rape kit in the attic, and officers told her it was just a matter of time before this escalated. Heidi, thank you for joining us today. Hi, thank you for having me. Of course you say you grew up in a very small town in Missouri, right? Yeah, I grew up it was about a population of 7000 in Missouri. I lived right across from the school to walk to school every day. I am the middle child and the older sister and younger brother, and we we really weren't allowed to watch TV or play video. We didn't have video games back then. So it was a lot of just like playing out, celebrating our bikes and, you know, whenever it start to get back up in our molecule's time for dinner, we have to come inside and we never lost our doors. I specifically remember our parents having a conversation whenever I was older about, Oh my gosh, we finally have to start locking our doors so we never we never locked doors. Back then it was just a safe town. We made our bikes on the lawn. Nothing was ever stolen. You never hear of crime happening. When did you move from your small town to another city? So whenever I was in high school, we actually moved to Kansas to another equally small town. This town had a little bit more crime, so I think that's when we had the first start locking our doors. But it wasn't anything that we were still concerned about at that point. Whenever I was about 21, I had finished my associate's degree in that little town and I couldn't go any further with that. I decided to move to a town in Oklahoma that was substantially larger. It was about 600000 people in that town, so I went from a town of less than 10000 people to a pretty large city of over 600000 people. I moved by myself into a little apartment and my parents helped me move down there and I got a job waitressing. I decided to move into an apartment right next door to my school, so that way I would never miss a class right there. If I have to walk, I walk. If something happens to my car like I have no reason to not make it and happy to drive since I think every day would kind of save on gas money. So I went and found a new apartment right next to school, and I moved in there just right before school started. And so you were you living alone at the time? So, yeah, I lived alone, and so I moved into this new apartment myself. I had gotten a dog several years earlier because I did live by myself. I felt much safer. He's like a little white lab mix. I mean, he's very small. I think he's mixed with a. So he's about 40 pounds and he didn't bark a whole lot. He was kind of quiet, but he's a really good companion. So it was just me and my dog and moved into this apartment. It was kind of like a little Hispanic community. There are lots of families and, you know, moms with their children out of the pool and doing laundry. I got an apartment on the second floor, had a little balcony, was kind of overlooking the laundry and the pool area, and it was only a two floor apartment. But my apartment was on the end on the upper level. Did you feel pretty safe in there? I feel like I had already been living in this town for a few years and had gotten really comfortable, and I really just felt safe no matter what at this point, like, I'd already been doing it for a couple of years by myself. I had gained a lot of independence and confidence, and I felt like it probably wasn't the best neighborhood, but I felt comfortable there. And did you get to know a lot of your neighbors? I really didn't get to know a lot of my neighbors. There were a lot of kids and so they would run up to me. They thought I was a teacher. I think because I was scrubbed. They thought I was a doctor. They would call me, Oh, I'd have to tidy and run to their moms. And Oh, mama, she's a doctor. I'm like, No, no, no, no, no, no doctor. But I would play with the kids in the pool, so it was really just like the kids. So I kind of got along with and played with. But as far as, like the adults, you know, there was a language barrier. I didn't really talk to a whole lot of my neighbors. I kind of knew the neighbor next door. And that was about it. This holiday season, I want to get my family and friends something different and cool and unique, something they definitely don't have that will make them feel special. I know exactly what you mean. And that's why I'm gifting story worth star worth is an online service that helps you and your loved ones preserve precious memories and stories for years to come. Wow, I'm intrigued. Tell me more Every week story worth emails your loved ones a thought provoking question of your choice from their vast pool of possible options. The goal is to get close to your family, and they come up with so many great questions to ask that it was so fascinating for me to learn so much about my family this way. Well, it's different and unique and something we can keep for generations. It's a great way to get to know people in your life in a funny way. That's right. And for one year, Stallworth will compile all your loved one stories, including photos and a beautiful keepsake book, and reading those stories weekly will help connect you to your loved ones, no matter how far apart you are. My family lives in the Midwest, and I don't get to see them as often as I'd like. Reading their stories makes me feel so much closer to them. Was story worth, and given those I love most a thoughtful personal gift from the heart and preserving their memories and stories for years to come. Got a story? Montcalm slash and save $10 on your first purchase. That story worth.com/ stuffing to save $10 on your first purchase. What are you looking at online, Jake? Oh, just picking up furniture for my new Miami dream house? Your Miami dream house? Yep, I just entered for my chance to win a gorgeous multi-million dollar, seven bedroom, six bathroom dream house in Miami. And I'm manifesting it into reality, real looking at furniture online. You entered to win on Omaze, the new way to give back to charity and have fun doing it. That's right, and I'm going to have a lot of fun of Miami parties every night, laying by the beach every day and just living my best life. Omaze has a ton of awesome prizes. I just entered to win a new Tesla and a vacation at the Four Seasons in Bora Bora. Oh, I can definitely see you vacationing in Bora Bora. And it's a fun and easy way for non-profits to raise money while you win big prizes. Here's how it works. Just go to Omaze.com/ stocking and select your favorite prize like a new Jeep Wrangler or the Miami Dream House. And once you've selected your prize, choose a donation amount from $10 to $150. The more you donate, the more entries you'll get through these donations. Omaze has raised more than one hundred and fifty million dollars to support over 350 nonprofits around the world. That's amazing. Omaze was named in Fast Company's 2020 most innovative companies featured on Good Morning America, The Today Show and Stephen Colbert. Everyone deserves the chance to live their dreams, and with Omar's extraordinary prizes, are within reach for everyone. Enter today for your chance to win the Miami Dream House or other life changing prizes and experiences at Omaze.com/ dog. Plus, receive 20 extra entries when you enter code stocking 20. That's Omar Z slash talking. When was the first time that you noticed something was wrong in the House? So I think I just I I I started slowly noticing underwear missing kind of like, you've noticed a sock missing in the drawer, you know what I mean? I didn't really think a whole lot about it. And not only that, but I was really just kind of a slob back then. You know, I come home for my clothes on the floor, take a shower, put your clothes on. And so I was really absent minded when it came to that, like specifically where my clothes are in noticing what clothes I had. But so for me to notice that I was missing some underwear, it had already been going on for a minute, I think, and I talked to my mom about it. And since I lived in apartments, she's kind of like just, you know, probably somebody is taking them out of the laundry. You need to go wash your laundry. Are you sitting with your laundry or are you doing this like you're supposed to be doing? No, I'm not. I go down. I put my clothes in the washer. I come back up, watch a movie or TV or make something to eat. And then after about an hour, I go back down, so I'm in the dryer. Come back up. You know, so I was definitely not watching them. So I kind of thought somebody has to be stealing them out of the laundry. Right? So at that point, I I take my little laptop and I would sit down in the laundry room the whole time with the laundry. I would get them from the, you know, from the time that I took them down there to the time I went back up for them, there were no underwear missing from the laundry that I did ever. But I still notice underwear missing from my house. So at that point, I kind of thought. I'm the only one as a key. Somebody asked to be coming in here, and I kind of thought it was a maintenance guy. I had lived in an apartment before where a maintenance guy had made a comment like, Oh, I came in your dogs a little bit nippy. My dog was real protective of me and wasn't real social and so he was a little bit aggressive and maybe towards people. So I thought surely nobody would come into my apartment with my dog in there. Once you started seeing all your underwear disappearing, did you end up going to the building maintenance? Did you end up reporting it's anybody? I did go to management and I said, Look, the house strange. Is there any way that a maintenance guy or somebody is coming into my apartment when I'm not there? And she said, No, that's definitely not happening. And I said, So I've got some underwear that are missing, and I know that they're not being taken for the laundry and nobody else has a key. I just was wondering if there was a possibility, maybe a maintenance guy or somebody would come in, possibly with doing that. And she said, no, there's absolutely no way our management are doing that. There's no way that's possible, like, Okay, so I left, and I really just thought she doesn't know these people. I mean, you think you know somebody, but she can't sit there and say that it's not happening. So she's probably just saying that with peace of mind, I never met the maintenance people. I don't know what they look like. They could be women. I have no idea who the people are. So I didn't want to point fingers at anybody. It wasn't anybody specific that I know of. I just thought the apartment complex are the only people that are coming into my house, so my apartment. So I kind of just I kind of just let it go. I thought, Okay, I probably have a curvy maintenance guy that's coming and stealing dirty underwear from me. What other things were missing or misplaced in your house that you noticed? So one night, a friend for my school, we were having a really big final the next day, and since I live right next to the school, she was just going to stay the night or at least stay for a few hours. So we were in my living room. I had my cell phone out, but that's I use it to study where to look things up or whatever. And we had been studying for a minute. And so we're like, we need to take a break. My dog needs to go outside to use the restroom, so we'll just we'll take a break, so take him outside. So we went outside, we walked him around the property. I still think we were probably only gone 10 or 15 minutes, maybe 20 at the Max. And then when we came back, I could not find my cell phone anywhere and I know that I had it right here on the table and we checked. I thought maybe it found the couch cushions, we checked the couch cushions, we searched everywhere for that phone and it it was gone. It never, ever popped up. It was gone. And there was a point in time where I thought, she's the most honest person I've ever met. She could never lie. But another friend and I'm like, I don't know what to think. Like she had to take it out because she was the only one there. But it doesn't make any sense that she would take it. I trust her with my life, like she would never lie about anything. There's no way that she did it. But the phone literally just disappeared. Made absolutely no sense to me. It was really just frustrating. I had lost all of my photos and things, and I didn't use the iCloud then any photos and things out of my phone. A lot of information that was in my phone was gone. I had to go get a new phone and I kept the same phone number when I got my new phone. You had to get a new phone. The phone didn't turn up anywhere. No, I've never. I've moved since it and I've never seen the phone is gone. Were there any other things happening that were kind of odd or so? Yeah. So I started receiving phone calls. It became a pretty regular basis. I would get a call from a blocked phone number and a person on the other line would just be breathing on a phone. At first, I thought it was maybe like a telemarketer or something like that with a bad connection. So I'd hang on to go about my day, then it would happen again. You know, it was kind of once a week and then it was twice a week. And I mean, just started having pretty regular over several months and I finally got fed up and I could hear the other person breathing on the other end. I could hear a dog barking and I'm like, Listen, I can hear a dog barking. I can hear you breathing. If you're there, just say something to me like, I'm a really nice person. I talk to anybody. I'm super friendly. There's no reason you can't talk to me. I don't. I never understood the point of somebody just calling and like listening to my voice. Or why they would do that? I never knew who to suspect they didn't have any suspects, I just thought, maybe there's somebody with the wrong number that felt like harassing somebody. I really wasn't sure. Were you keeping all this to yourself at this time? A lot of stuff. I really did kind of keep to myself because I feel like when you live alone, you kind of put blinders on and you block some things out. I can't live in fear or thinking that somebody's after me or have that mentality and live by myself and live in fear all the time. So it's like, Okay, this weird thing happened. It's probably nothing and probably make it a big deal about it. Blow it off. I'm fine. There's nothing like serious going on right now. There's no reason. So when I had moved away my family, they all lived the closest. My dad was like an hour and a half to two hours away from me, and my mom lived all the way in Alabama. So she was a while my brother and sister still back in Kansas and Missouri. So nobody lived close to me, and I didn't want anybody to worry. There's nothing they could do about it at this point, and I didn't want anybody to just worry about me for no reason or think maybe I shouldn't be there and maybe I should come home. And maybe that's not safe. Maybe you need to move somewhere else. I just really wanted to be independent and do it on my own, and I didn't want to worry anybody. At what point did you decide, OK, this is kind of a pattern of what's going on here, and there could be the same person responsible for this. I really didn't. I didn't. I did not consider everything connected until. After. I found out everything that was going on. I had no clue. I just thought it was random individual things. There were also other things that would happen like I would. It wasn't the safest town, so I would get my car window busted in and get things stolen. Somebody had kicked in my front door. I got home and the door was wide open and there was a footprint on my door. My dog was just sitting in the doorway waiting for me to get home. And so I just felt like I constantly had something that I was like. Taken care of or worrying about or I had other things to worry about than just a phone call with a guy reading on a phone like that's annoying, but you're not on my radar right now, you're just annoying. You know, I didn't consider it as being dangerous or anything like that. I feel like I was just kind of living day by day and taking everything day by day, like today, I've got a huge task I've got to set. I've got to focus on that. I've got to, you know, I've got we would do these cops think it was ultrasound out of scanning tests and then we would do clinical. We had to go to the hospital and there. So I just felt like there was a lot. I was just focusing on this and that. And then whenever I be there, I compartmentalize school at school. I get home. Then I go out with my friends or I deal with, you know, a situation with my car breaking down or just it's not like there's just always something going on. Back then, I felt like I had a storm cloud over me, and I was just constantly battling like every day. Just get through this situation. Like, did you notice anything different with your dog at that time? Or, you know, were other things going missing besides underwear? So I there was one night that I had gone home at. Was fairly late at night. Well, there were two situations, actually. I had gotten home, it was fairly late at night, it was dark out and, you know, my dog runs out, he's creating me, he's excited and I think I'm on the phone talking to somebody, and he just turned around and went straight to the bedroom and he starts barking at the closet. Like, like I said before, this is about the never barks. He's perfect for apartment living because he he's so quiet and in apartments there's constantly sounds coming from everywhere. There's cars in the parking lot. We live right by the highway, so there's the highway sound. There's people swimming in the pool, there's neighbors banging and moving around, know people talking outside. They would have a lot of they would have a lot of like parties and birthdays and functions outside. People were like having cookouts. So there was always noise going on and my dog would never bark at. That stuff is always pretty quiet. But this was different. This was he specifically went straight to the closet. There was something in there and he was barking incessantly at the closet. So I mean, I just I think I got off the phone immediately with who was talking with, and I was scared to go in there. I didn't like grab a weapon or anything. I just decided I sat there for a minute on the couch and I thought, What am I going to do? And I decided, OK, I'm going to get up courage. I'm going to go in there and I'm just going to grab him and I'm going to drag him out. I don't know what I thought was in there. If there was a critter, I don't know why there would have been a critter. I have no idea at this point. So I go into my bedroom and he's just staring at the closet, barking straight at the closet. I try to call his name. He won't even come to me or listen to me. I grabbed him by the collar. I drove him out of the bedroom and I shut the door and I was just shaking and I was just terrified and I sat in my living room. And this is the point. I probably should have called the cops to come check it out, but I'm just not that person. I heard a noise. Check it out. I don't want to bother anybody. You don't ever want to step on anyone's toes. It's probably nothing. I always 7000 myself, so I just decided to get some blankets and I slept in the living room that night. I wasn't going to go back into my bedroom until feel like the next day it was made out. I had to get up and get ready for work. I went back in there, I looked in the closet, nothing was in there, everything was fine. So I just kind of went on about my day. It was just kind of a scary situation that happened, but. Like, nothing really bad happened out of it. Know, I felt like, OK, I'm still safe, I'm fine. What are your holiday plans this year, Jake? I got a lot of holiday action plan. I'm going to see my family and friends eat a ton of great food holiday parties every night. Shopping for presents and volunteering at my local homeless shelters. Well, you're going to be busy. Do you have any relaxation scheduled on there? Of course, anybody who listens to the show knows I'm obsessed with playing best fiends. It's the perfect thing. I need to relax when I got a lot going on. I grab a hot cocoa, put my feet up, and I'm whisked away from the stress of the season. I love playing best fiends. I'll be traveling for the holidays and playing best fiends is perfect on long plane rides. I don't even need wife I to play. That's right. Best Fiends has it all. An amazing storyline. Collectible fiends and literally thousands of levels with more added all the time, so I never get bored. It's the best puzzle game I've ever played, and I love that I can jump on and play anytime, anywhere. And Jamie not to brag, but I'm on level 432. That's great, Jake. Maybe I'll catch up to me during the holidays. OK. How are you always on a higher level than me? I'm really, really good at puzzle games, and sometimes I just can't put it down until I get a couple levels ahead. Download Best Fiends Free today on the App Store or Google Play. That's friends without the R best fiends. So what level you are, Jamie? Just keep playing your catch up one day. As host of Strictly Shocking, we discuss topics that can be triggering and believe therapy is a great tool for anyone going through a difficult time. Each week, we ask our stalking survivors how they got through their trauma. They tell us that therapy is most important. I've used therapy because I like having someone neutral to talk to my life. I like talking to my friends about things, but sometimes it really helps to have an outside point of view. I like to use therapy when I'm going through big changes, a breakup, a career change, and especially with all the changes that have been going on in the world in the last couple of years. That's why we both recommend Talkspace. Talkspace is the number one online therapy platform. There are thousands of licensed therapists available for you to match with across dozens of specialties, including things like anxiety, depression, relationships and more. Talkspace offers individual therapy couples therapy and medication prescription services, and you don't even have to leave the comfort of your own home. Talkspace works around your schedule at your convenience with live video sessions and unlimited messages with your dedicated therapist. If you need a little support to help you through the end of the year or want to start building towards a better upcoming year, Talkspace is here to help match with the licensed therapist when you go to talk Spacecom and get $100 off your first month with the promo code stonking. That's $100 off when you use code stalking a talk Spacecom. What were some of the other ways that it started escalating? So I I had come home one day and, you know, I always lost my door. I'm the only one with a key. Like I said before, besides maintenance, of course, and I came into my apartment and the sliding glass door was wide open. I lived on the second floor, had a little balcony, and so there's no way that it could have been somebody from the ground opening my door and breaking in. Somebody had to, you know, and I always kept a glass door locked and closed as well. So somebody had to unlock the glass door and opened it and gone on the balcony. And I thought, that has to be maintenance. Maintenance had to have come in here and got out. Maybe they had to check something on the balcony. Maybe there was. I mean, I don't I don't know anything about houses or maintenance. But again, that's what I thought maintenance had to come in and then they just forgot to close the sliding glass door. And again, at that point, I should have contacted the apartment management. Hey, my glass doors wide open. Did you have maintenance in the area, somebody coming in? But they didn't. It's another thing I just kind of blew off like, Well, that's strange, but maybe I'm just maybe it's nothing. It's probably just maintenance. What led you up to the point to actually contact police? So I had. I had been sitting in my living room one night. It was it was pretty late at night, like nine 10 o'clock at night. I was talking on the phone to a friend and I. Heard some banging on the roof. Now I'm on the second floor. There's not any trees hanging over, so I mean, it's not like there could be squirrels running up there or anything on top of the roof. I have no idea that apartments had attics. Maybe that sounds kind of naive, but I don't know anything about apartment layouts. I had no idea they even had attics up there, so I kind of thought. Well, maybe there's somebody coming to work on cable like or maybe there's a satellite up there, they have to kind of fix. And it seems really late at night for them to be doing that. And so he's kind of again feeling like it's not my friend. I was like, Wait a minute, stop talking. I hear something on the roof. And so I kind of listen to the sounds and she was just like, she just kind of kept talking about herself, just like, Okay, well, whatever. Really into her story. So I'm like, OK, it's probably nothing. I thought I heard something on there. That's probably nothing. So I think even my, you know, my dog, I kind of looked at that as a feeling, and I don't remember he didn't make a big deal out of it, but I think even he had like something up there. And I think it was pretty soon after that. I told my mom about it and I told her about specifically about my dog barking at the closet because that's what really scared me. And she said, I believe I was at school whenever I was talking to her, probably on a break or something. And my mom is an apartment manager in Alabama. She was managing condos and she had managed apartments before. And she said, Listen, some of those apartments, they have an attic access in the closet. You need to see if you have an attic access in the closet. And I thought, no way. That is terrifying to even think about. There's no way somebody is actually in my attic. She's like, Well, your dog was barking at the closet. Just go check and see if you have one. They're not in every apartment, but some of them, they have to get up in the attic. So like, I didn't even know that we had attics in these apartments. She's I guess there's attics. Just when you get home, check in your closet and see if there's a fabric access. So I get home. The first thing I do is go in the closet and to my doom and dismay, there's a hole in the ceiling. And for an attic access, it's not even secured. There's like a broken piece of wood that is just sitting on top of the hold ahead. You could tell it had been broken in half at some point. And just somebody like had put it back together and set it on top of the hole. It wasn't sealed. It wasn't locked. Nothing. It was just this little piece of boards sitting on this hole, and I still think my heart just dropped and my stomach just, oh my gosh, that's terrifying. So my mom's one of her family members or cousin or something. He works for the police department in the city that I'm in. I have no family there. So she contacted him. She kind of wanted. She was like, Look, this is weird stuff going on. I just kind of want you to keep an eye out for her. And he said, Yeah, we can meet for lunch and talk and stuff and kind of catch up. You can tell me what's going on. So I met him. And I mean, it was kind of like a bit of a reunion like, I'm glad to have somebody here that's an older guy that I can kind of like, be myself and be on my side and I could turn to with this crazy stuff. And he was like. Look, this weird stuff happening, I can comment, you know, I kind of look if you want and I'm like, yes, if you would kind of look in my apartment because I don't know if there's holes in the ceilings like, I don't know. I just want to show you this hole. I just would feel better if you'd come to work. So he came over, he was looking at my ceiling and it's kind of like a popcorn ceiling. So he's like, it's really sometimes hard to see holes. People can have the tiniest cameras that you can't even see. You wouldn't even know where there, so you wouldn't know until you went up in the attic. And I showed him where the little access was. I was like, Look, you can just climb. So my closet was full of coats, so you could actually just climb the totes to get to the ceiling to push that thought aside. And so was like, Look, this is just how you climb up and down easily. So I climbed the coats and I started to like, put my head up and I moved the board. I started to put my head up in the ceiling. I was going to look up there and see if I saw anything. And I didn't even get my eyes over and I just got so scared. My brain, I was thinking, There's somebody up there. They're going to kick me in the face. As soon as I get my head up, they're like, You know, the scary movies are going to top that off or something crazy. Like, I just was so scared. So I was like, I can't do it. I can't do it. And I put the cover back up and I got down and he didn't look like he was about to get up there and look. And he just said, Look, just get it, get some cameras. You can get them real cheap online, just get some cameras and set them up and you and you'll see it. Somebody is in here. And I think you can buy them 50 bucks online or something. So I considered doing that, but I was just like I was. I don't have a whole lot of money at the time. I'm going to I'm going to school full time and I'm trying to pay for rent and pay for a car payment and pay my utilities and provide for myself with these little odd jobs on the side, you know, waitressing at night. So I'm like, that's a lot of money to me, and I just don't want to like spend it on a camera. And also, I was scared. I talked to my brother and my brother was like, Look, just take a piece of tape and put a piece of tape across that board and then you'll know it's somebody moved before the tape will be moved. You'll know if somebody is coming down and I'm like, It's a really smart idea. I thought about doing it, but I just sat there and I was like, so scared of. I think knowing I think if I came home and I found that piece of tape moved just like the absolute fear of knowing that that was a possibility. So it was like, Oh, everything's fine, everything's fine now, nothing's going on. So by this point, I had run out of underwear. They'd all been stolen. I. Even had a swimming suit, bottoms that had gone missing, I'd gone to friends, swim parties and stuff, and I ran out of swimming pool bottoms and I called them and they, Hey, are my other friends weird? But did I leave my swimming suit at your house? I have the top. I don't like the bottom. I don't know why I would not have final swimming suit. But now we don't have anything. I think a bra went missing and it was an expensive one and my friend, she was just like, it was not at my house. You know, I thought maybe when I changed, I left it there. So at this point, I'm like, I wasn't even. I mean, not to sound gross. I wasn't even wearing underwear anymore. I just decided to go commando. That follows the underwear issue. Can't be someone if I'm not wearing them and the phone calls I. I had thought in an app. The blocks, phone numbers, and so I put the app on my phone. It blocks the number I call the phone number, and the Hispanic man had answered. And I said, Listen, are you calling me? Are you calling my number? And he said, No, I'm not calling your number. I don't even know who you are. Promise of not calling your number. He sounded very genuine and sincere, and I really believe that he wasn't whenever he said that. But I said, Look, I'm getting numbers. I mean, if anybody else using your phone because I'm getting calls from this number in particular. So do you let anybody else use your phone and you said, Oh, my brother uses my phone sometimes? I said, OK, just let your brother know if he calls my number again, I'm going to call the cops like, I already have your number and have your information, and I don't want to be this way. But if I get another phone call from your number, then I'm going to call the cops and he's like, Oh yeah, totally. I'll let him know if that's happening. There's no way he's doing that, but I will tell him I never received another call after that point. So now it's like, OK, nobody can take me under anymore. I don't. I don't have any underwear. The calls have stopped. It's creepy to think of maybe somebody coming down from my attic, but at the same time I just push it out of my head. It was just, I've got other things going on. I'm safe, I'm fine, really. A lot of denial going on at this point, and I wasn't also wasn't putting everything together. I wasn't connecting all of this stuff as far as being the same person doing the same thing. I mean, I'm sure everyone listening right now has just gone to their closet, looked up to see if they have the attic up there and they're looking at it. I mean, that's what I would be doing. This sounds like a horror film, like it sounds like a lifetime movie. You know, it's it's insane. And I think that maybe your your brain was kind of protecting you by not really wrapping around it, like by not really believing it was happening. Yeah, I feel like maybe it was a protective mode or something. Now I look back and I kick myself like, How could you be so dumb? I would be listening to this thinking, Oh my gosh, get it together. Put the pieces together. You're so dumb. Why wouldn't you do that? I would, too. But I think at the time, just there's so much in fear and I live by myself. I don't have any family around other than him. I didn't feel close to him, that family member that came over. I kind of felt like he's kind of just doing my mom a favor and we can kind of stay in contact, but. I just really wanted to do things on my own and wanted my own independence, I didn't want to admit that I had any issues or problems. I didn't want anyone to have to come rescue me. I don't know. I was just making it day by day. I felt like nothing's happened. Now, nothing's happened. I'm not sure what I was waiting to happen, but it things that seemed to have died down for a while. There were no more crazy things happening for several months. And when did everything come to a head? So I had graduated ultrasound school and I had gotten a job with a breast surgeon and. I left for work one morning, they had messaged my apartment's had let me know like, Hey. We're going to be installing some lighting up in your attic, so we're going to need to get into your attic access and install some overhead lighting that's like like motion lights for outside, but they need to get into your attic. So I'm like, Okay, no problems. I put my dog in the bathroom so that he wouldn't harass anybody and I let them come in. So I knew that they were going to be there that day and I went to work. It was towards the later part of the day. I was about to go home and in like an hour and I received a phone call from the apartment and I just for some reason, they never call me. So I just had this instant sense of dread of just like, Oh my gosh, something has happened. My first thought is always my dog because like he was, I was really, really close with him. I had him for a while. I felt like he was protecting me and I thought, Oh, no, something happened to my dog. Maybe if he attacks the guy maintenance guy, or I mean, I don't know, crazy things run through your mind. When I answered the phone, it wasn't the management, it was a police officer. So now I'm even more terrified. And he said, and the first thing he said was, Hey, how soon can you be home? And when he said that I. Oh, yeah, I was just terrified, I thought there's been a fire, there's been a fire. My apartment burned down and my dog is dead like it's just the worst case scenario. That's where state where I went to. And I was like, what, why? What is going on? And he said, so the maintenance guys, they went into your apartment, into the attic to install the lighting. And when they were up there, they found a bunch of underwear and they also found. Pictures of you, your mail, there was a knife, mace, condoms and lube, and I think he even said there was porn up there as well. So I was like, OK, I will be home right away. I got off the phone and I started like, keep, I was trying to keep myself together and I just went and told the women I worked with, Hey, I have to go this what's happening? And I just broke down crying. At that point, because it was like, it all made sense, like everything made sense. So I was driving home when I was driving home. I was just starting to think of all these things that had happened, like, Oh my gosh, the door, the phone calls, the I like, I do it. I knew somebody was taking my underwear and part of me felt vindicated, like almost like I was right. I knew I was right. Now people know I'm not crazy. People just kind of laughed at me or the other thing, but I was right. And then at the same time, it was like terrifying knowing that somebody had been in your safe space. And this whole, like the whole underwear thing, it has been going on all of this stuff. It's been going on for probably about a year and a half. So it wasn't just stuff that happened all within a month, then it would have been a lot more noticeable. It was little things that kept happening over the span of a year and a half. So this is somebody that's been doing this for a long time. So I got there in the police or in the attic, and they were taking everything out and they told me that there were holes that had been drilled that were in each of my rooms, like there was one. There's a hole over the bedroom. There was a whole lot living room. There was a hole in the bathroom, there was a hole over my shower. So this person had been up there actually watching me. It's not like they just came and stole my things and left. They had been up there watching me. It was just terrifying. I mean, it's shocking because I know that I was in denial about somebody coming down and even though the signs were there, but like, Okay, now this confirmed it, this is really happening. Like. I think it was just a lot of in shock and like. I just can't believe that this would happen. I can't believe this would happen. This is stuff that doesn't happen. I feel like it doesn't even happen that often, but let alone for it to happen to you. It's just crazy. Like she said, this feels like a lifetime series. Like, I can't believe this. What was the next step that the police took to find him? Yeah, so they found him pretty quick. So on the apartment, he lived in the apartment at the other end of the complex and we were both on the second floor on the end of the apartment complex. I was on one end and he was on the other end. So we were the only ones where the attic access in our closet. So he it was just a crime of opportunity. So he was going up into his attic access and he would crawl across. He got through the firewall and he would crawl over and watch me or come down into my apartment. He had also had dug holes in other people's apartments, and one was a little girl's room, which terrified a lot of people. I don't know if he knew who was living in those apartments or if he was just digging, trying to see what he could see and watch people. But my apartment's the only one he could actually get into. So they arrested him that night. They found it pretty quick. They figured out he's the only other one with the attic access. They went over to his apartment. They found more of my underwear in his apartment. He was married with children and they went through and bagged up. All of the underwear that they could find, and they had me go to the police station later that week and I had to like identify each and every pair of my underwear. And he admitted to it it was definitely him. I mean, I felt much safer once he was arrested. They knew who it was. All of this came out. Part of me, it's crazy because I hardly felt relief, because now all the crazy stuff is over, and now I know why it all happened. And I'm really not crazy. I really. I knew that I never a message that. This guy's wife, I knew that my underwear were missing, I knew that somebody had been calling me reading my phone like all of these things I had been, I had told friends about a lot of it. Now I finally, like I said, I finally felt a little bit vindicated. But at the same time, I was still terrified that this had happened. He was married and had had children or a child. Did you ever hear from his wife or reach out to his wife? Because, I mean, I would probably wonder if my husband was going into the closet for hours at a time. I never heard from them. His brother, did you like an interview on the news station? And he sounded very genuine, and I honestly think it was probably the same guy that I talked to on the phone. And he said, Listen. If we can't believe that this would happen, he had no time, he was so busy with his family all the time, we don't know how he had Typekit us and. But if you did it, then just say you did it. Turn yourself in like there are very genuine I feel I really felt for the family. I really, really did because there's children involved and now they've lost their father. I just felt bad for the whole situation, honestly and essentially family, I mean, I'm sure they were great, genuine people and this was just something that he was doing a crime of opportunity, like I said and something he got caught up in. But I do think situations like this always escalate, like it's probably started out a crime of opportunity, like he's being nosy and see what he can do. And then he's like, kind of gets a little thing for me, and then he starts obsessing over me and breathing in the phone. I do think that he has thought about going further, the fact that there was kind of the moves. I think that it was in his mind to possibly come down and write me or, you know, he had thought about it. He had those types of thoughts. And I had met with a sex crimes detective just like a friend. And he I told him my story and he said, Yeah, it's just it's not a matter of if it's a matter of when because these guys always escalate like this. What they're doing now. It just becomes aware it's not enough. It's not as satisfying. So they go to the next level and then that's like, Okay, that's not satisfying anymore. So he absolutely would have gone and talk me if it had gone on longer. It's not a matter of if he had done it, it was just a matter of when. And so I'm lucky that they managed the maintenance guys went up there and they found the stuff before that happened. That is so, so scary. What happened after he was arrested? So we went to court, I had to go to court and testify. And he got eight years, but he was an illegal immigrant. So he had to go to an immigration hearing after that and since he was illegal, I supported him, so he ended up getting it was like eight years suspended because he got deported. So I have no idea what's happened since I never heard. I just it's the last I heard was he had been deported. So I'm not sure what became of him. Did you have to go to court or anything like that? Yeah, I yeah, I did go to court and it was just very odd. The. He just sat there with his head down the whole time, and I just like a sad little puppy and I know that he is like a predator. But I I just I like an impasse type of person and it just felt bad for him and I don't know why. I'm like, Man, this sucks. The whole situation sucks. It sucks for his family. It sucks that he did this. I mean, it sounds like you were conflicted with the results of this, but I can imagine that you felt good getting justice and basically getting him off the street so he can't do this to anyone for the time being. Yeah, yeah. I mean, if I'd moved, there was another girl that moved in who did it to her or if they moved. I mean, I don't I don't know if there were other things that it would have made him want to do with other people, even outside the apartment. I'm not sure. I am grateful that maybe it would not happen to another person that he was caught. I don't wish ill will on him. I don't want anything bad to happen to him. I'm just not that type of person. But at the same time, I do kind of feel like he got a slap on the wrist and he's still free wherever he is. So hopefully it's not continuing. But I know people like this. They have a pattern. They do continue to do stuff. I mean, I don't know, maybe it was enough for him to not do it anymore since he almost lost his family. I'll never know the answers to that. When they caught him, did you recognize him at all from either the apartment or from maybe other places in town? Was he possibly following you outside the apartment? It's crazy because they showed me his face and I have never seen him before. I mean. I was going to the pool, I was going to the laundry unit. I mean, it's not a big apartment complex. People are constantly coming and going. I mean, I could say I've never seen him before. I bet you I probably passed him at some point and just didn't even know this is my soccer walking past and had no idea who he was. What inspired you to go public and share your story on Tik Tok? Oh, gosh. I think it took me a while to even talk about it, especially since people are kind of laughed about my underwear and all that, even after I found out I was a stalker. There are guys on my Facebook laughing about it, so I never really told the whole story to anybody before. It's been a while now. I moved away and moved to a small town. I feel a lot safer and I think it's been long enough. You know, I couldn't. I couldn't watch scary movies for a while. I couldn't listen to a stalker podcast in stories like it was too terrifying. Like, Nope, turn it off. Like, I love true crime, but I just struggle with that. But I just feel like now I've it's been long enough and I suddenly have these opportunities with this podcast to be able to tell my whole story. And so I'm happy to do that. I think it's part of healing and part of kind of like reliving it and going through it. Again, just from a different perspective. Oh, there's something a little bit cathartic about it for me, but it's nice to be able to, like, really tell those people like my friends, she said. And I had told her the host, she'd heard the whole story finally, and she was like, I had no idea. Like, you told me there was a stalker, but I had no idea how serious it was or we just kind of like would try to laugh about it and have, like, you know, just a sense of humor about the whole thing. But it really is serious, and I really hope out of this that. If you live in an apartment. Go see if you have an attic access, there's attics and apartments. I I went and googled like the city and stalker to try to pull up my case again. And there was another guy that did the same thing. Two years later, in the same town. So I mean, I know it's rare. It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen. I can't believe it happened again. A couple of years later, in the same town. But yeah, just. Its use, if there's something going on that you feel is crazy, then say something like, even now my friend will call me and she's like, I hear something in my attic, I hear something on my roof, you know, like, it's probably a squirrel. But we need to like, take this seriously. What changes have you made after going through this? And do you still live in the same apartment? No, I live in the House now, I don't ever think I'm going to live in an apartment again. I know I'm probably just as vulnerable to house, but for some reason I feel safer in a house and I know everybody on my street, all my neighbors and I feel like I still live pretty carefree. But at the same time, I don't think I would ignore signs that I had. I'm not going to freak out over every little bump. I hear it's still a house. I still have squirrels jumping on my roof and I hear them, and I know that that's what they are because I thought I checked out right when I moved out of that apartment so that that night I left and I went and stayed with my dad, and my mom was really adamant about, You're not going to stay in that apartment again, you're not going to. And she contacted the management. She was like, Look, I don't know if I'm going to break her lease or not, but she's not staying there and they would not let me break my lease so that they would put me in another apartment in the same complex with the same lease. And I just wouldn't. It didn't have an attic access, so I did that. And even then, I was just laying on my bed and I thought I saw a little hole in the ceiling and I made the cut out. I called the police and made them come out and check it like, this is what happened to me. And you guys, like the police have told me, this is what we're here for. If you hear a sound, call us. I mean, I still feel like I hate to bother them. They have other things to do. I hate to call over Bob, but if you're a girl living by yourself, even a guy living by yourself. Yeah, it doesn't hurt to check it out, it's not going to hurt anything to check it out. OK, now I'm safe. I know that there's nothing out there. I this house I'm in, I heard squirrels. I sounded like there was an animal in the attic and I had them made it come out and check it out. They're fine. They're on the roof. It's just some squirrels will cut back your trees, but you earn a little bit more hyper vigilant about things like that now. Heidi, what advice do you have for our listeners? I mean, if you have that like gnawing feeling in the back of your head, like if you know something's wrong, if you feel like something's wrong, that something's wrong. You know, don't ignore your instincts. Make sure you tell people if you think something's going on. If you have apartments, then let's just check and see if you have an attic access. I mean, I had no idea that I had one. I had no idea that they even had attics in apartments. But if you're on the top floor to make sure you don't have an attic access, and if you do, make sure it's completely sealed and bolted locked just whatever you have to do. What's life like for you now? So, like I said, I finally I got my ultrasound job that I always wanted and I love it, and my dog at the time passed away. But I have a couple more. It's I feel really, even though I feel like he was allowing this guy to come in, I still feel safe with dogs. I still feel safer with dogs. So, yeah, I live in a small town. I mean, I'm back to the small town like the size of town I grew up in. And so I feel like the big city kind of kicked my butt a little bit like, I'm okay in these small towns. Heidi, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. Thank you so much. If anyone out there is in need of help or is a victim of stalking, please reach out. You can find a list of resources on our Instagram at strictly stalking pot. If you'd like to share your story with us on strictly stalking, you can reach us. That's strictly stalking pod at gmail.com. That's strictly stalking pod at gmail.com. As a listener, strictly stalking, please leave us a review and read us five stars on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Castbox or wherever you listen. You can also find us on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes, early episode trailers and check out show merchandise. Just go to pay TRANSCOM. Slash strictly stalking object of Tula, and I'm Jamie Bibby. Thank you for joining us on today's episode of Strictly Psychic.