#yourekillingit | Putting in the Work

Transcript

Well, well, well, the issue is, well, well, we are back. Hello. Hello. Already talking over each other? Yeah. How's Puerto Rico? It's great, it's great, it's it's so funny, like I'm so I got so used to basement dwelling in Courtney's apartment, right, which I love currently so much, but her basement does feel fully like the lower level, to quote Luann. It is not a luxurious experience, although it is a spacious one and it's great to have privacy. It's not exactly a luxury. Mm hmm. So I've gotten so used to that. So when I got home, I was like, Oh, this is so nice. Like, I get to do well here. Oh my gosh, I forgot about it. The lower level. It's so funny. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's a sprawling basement, but it does. It doesn't, you know, have a whole lot of natural light. Correct. Correct. And your home is, you know, much nicer. So I'm glad you're back, you know, with your your comforts of home. Truly, they make you. How are you doing? I'm good. I mean, I had a chaotic day yesterday. I basically you gave me your cold and I know you were. You're denying it. You're like, I didn't give this to you. You did. No, I literally just said, yes, OK. You know, yesterday you denied it, though over the phone. I have a record. You said I didn't give this to you. Are you recording my phone call? Our phone calls? Just in case you just said I have it recorded. I don't know. I'm not recording. I don't have it recorded. But just, you know, keeping you on your toes. You did deny this yesterday. Yesterday you were a denier. I'm glad you've come around, but you got the cold that everyone in our family has gotten. Is it from? There were others. They for other people. No one's had it as bad as as you had it. And tell me like you gave me the worst strain. So it's all your fault. It's all your fault. So anyways, I was supposed to fly to New York tomorrow night and begin my new life there. But thanks to you, my new life is on hold and I am currently trying to fly out like this weekend. Once I'm just like, fully better, which I should be, I'm already feeling a lot better. I know I probably sound congested, but I marched my little booty to Walgreens and bought the nice new Senex they offer. I had to show my ID to buy, send me snacks. I don't know why you have to show your I.D. to buy me snacks like it does. I heard some of the properties of new snacks and like mess are changing. Teenagers do use it to get high music acts. I wish I was sort of like, and if you drink it in excess, I'm pretty sure it gives you a high well, I don't really like. Well, I've been taking the recommended dose and have been, you know, basically been feeling nothing. So anyways, I bought the nicest meal snacks they offer not to brag but not to fill. My car did not get declined as I bought me Senex. D.M. extreme severe name brand also did not buy the CBS brand. I think you. And so I'm hoping that if I just do this around the clock, I've been drinking a lot of Pedialyte, you know, taking it easy. I hope that I will be able to start my new life in New York come this weekend. But this is all your fault. I do have bad news for you. I still feel extremely fatigued, like I feel fatigued at all. Like fatigue isn't good. I mean, I think you're probably just fatigued from having a weak constitution. I probably am quite frail, right? But I don't like I don't feel fatigued. It's just like the other night. I like to wake up the middle of night and like blow my nose, which was like something of a mess that did not happen to me last night. Knock on wood. So absorbing that I can just continue to get, you know, ample sleep, drink lots of fluids and be well by next weekend because you want to. OK, so here's the thing I we know it's not COVID because you get tested twice and I've been vaccinated and everything, so we know it's just the common cold, but I just have forgotten how long it takes to get over these damn things. And I would usually just, you know, fly to New York. But now I feel like weird about traveling when I'm slightly sick. And the other factor is that I'm supposed to meet Ben's whole family next weekend. And so like, there's a chance that if I fly to New York too early, I give it to Ben and then Ben gives it to his whole family. And that's my first impression. Here's a cold that lasts for two weeks. Yeah. And if you're particularly, you know, sickly, it'll last forever. Like, in my case, right? Right. If you're super fragile, you know, I think that his family, you should text all of them and let them know as you're letting our listeners know, like the status of your mucus levels and the fact that you're postponing, you know, shacking up with him and not checking up for the record of shacking up. I have my own place. He has his own place. Where and how often will you sleep there? That's the question that seems, I don't know. I don't how to start my life there because of you. I'm just saying you should text them daily updates that way. They know about how incredibly considerate you are. Well, I just yeah, I hope he's seeing how considerate I'm being. I mean, I can't simply no text his whole family get like family that I should get in the family or text. Yeah, hey, guys, you know we might get, but I just want you to know, like, I'm keeping an eye on things. I'll give you daily updates so you can know what's going to funny. This is there are people out there that would do that, that would like that, like would text that long text to a bunch of people with like frequent updates. They're also the same people. He's like 12 emojis after like a three paragraph text. Right, right. Mom's on Facebook status. I digress. Yes. OK, well, what else is going on beyond your, you know, ailment? I have bought a lot of clothes off of Kourtney, much to my bank accounts detriment. Is this all on loan or did you actually pay? Yeah, this is on my tab. I haven't fulfilled any of those Venmo requests, but you know, my bank accounts are really feeling it. Speaking of Ameriquest, I'm still waiting on you to fulfill a few. Well, I'm still waiting on Kay and to fulfill one of mine. For the record, if we're going to play this game. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to fulfill that. You know, feel free to add my next pay cycle. I think I already did. He literally, ah, just text him. He literally like, it's just annoying to text him right now. What I want to say can I say like, yo bro? Like what's casual? Just be like, Hey, tag, can you hit? Can you hit me back on Venmo for that request? And you just broke? Yo, can you hit me? Can you fulfill that? You hit me. Can you fulfill that Venmo that Venmo request that you fulfill? Just be like Venmo. I'm literally going to send the Venmo request. Yeah, do it. Credit card bill is due. Yeah, that's right. With like three use in two years, I'm going as Category C C Bill is due. OK, done. I never tax like this. I just he will let the dimensional emojis forever. Should I send a bunch of emojis? I think you should probably just leave it there. I was going to send like the heart, then the crown and the snowflake. But the money is the cash. The guy actually just had much of the cigarette. Also, I just sent like five million cashes. OK, wow. How charming. See? Excellent. Well, excellent. I do have to tell you, I did have an experience flying back that I would like to talk to fulfilled what he just said. Maybe he's listening. Kagan, thank you. He's not listening. There's no way you could be listening to this. He just got your text listing. He's literally so invested in this podcast is literally listening as you record it. OK, can I tell you about my experience flying back to Puerto Rico? Yes. You flew business class and like, I just I'm not prepared for you to be a person who flies business class all the time. Honestly. It was fantastic. Full lay down. And this is not something we either of us was expecting. We didn't know before we got on the plane. We just thought it's going to be like the extra large C, so annoying. It's really frustrating. Kagan has back problems, so he had that problems. I know, but I can't not sit by my partner. Oh, really? Really? Kagan, this respondent said. No problem. Exclamation point. So I think we're good. He's not mad at me. Yeah, he's not mad at you. He's just as lazy when it comes to my requests. All I'm saying is that it was like, it's it's literally it was an ecstatic experience. I've never flown, flown with a lay down seat before and like you can fully Chandler like, stretch out like I like to sleep on my stomach. I could fully sleep on my stomach. I had my pillow there, luckily. I'm just saying it's worth swinging for it if you can do it. I at the rate at which Kagan is refilling my Venmo request, I'm not going to able to fly business class any time soon. So this is just like rubbing salt in the wound. Well, what's hilarious is we have a upcoming potential Hawaii trip as a family. Yeah. And I was looking at flights and like, well, three thousand for business class, too expensive. I can't afford that. There's a chance I might not go. It's 3000 for business class and we're just like, it's just don't fly business cla*s. It's like very easy. Is this just like a check, a different box? Well, it's just different, though. When the flight is, it's a 17 hour journey. OK, that's different. Then like, I supposed to feel bad for you right now. Yeah, you are like my Hawaii from Puerto Rico is seriously like takes a wondrous beach vacation to the next. It's just so hard. Honestly, if you want to get from a tropical climate to another tropical climate across the Earth, it's a far distance. That's what we're learning here today on public holiday. Wow. OK. Anyways, I don't feel bad. Anyway, I'm kind of like the rest of us. All right. I'm a bee. I was in 27 e on my flight to Utah. I will never fly coach again. I will fly. I hope you know what, if you're never going to fly coach again, and I will never feel bad about reminding you for my Venmo request. All right. OK, that's fine. Don't go. But I here's a thing. I will fly economy plus or exit row seat, which really takes the sting out of things. But the thing she's like just being pedestrian, you know, flying economy, it's the sting. You know, economy is miserable. It's just honestly like, I'm I'm actually like too old and frail for that. At this point in my life, I'm not like this young buck who can just be like, I don't know, like folded like a pretzel for eight hours and then feel fine after like I need my rest. Yeah, yeah. Anyway. All right. Okay, okay. Today we have our interview with our older sister, Ash Chan. This was such a fun interview. So great to have her on. Do you have any commentary for the listeners on this interview? I mean, I was just happy that I was able to drum up so many memories with her because I actually have zero recollection of her ever living in the same house as me because we're so far apart in age. So are you guys? I mean, how old is she third? I already seven. Twenty six. Twenty five. I'm like 11 or 12 years. OK. OK, fair enough. Yeah. Zero. That's true. By the time you're six, she's out of the house. Yeah, pretty jarring. Yeah. I mean, I have no memories of Kourtney either. Before Wyatt, you have any memories of Kourtney before Wyatt. No, I have a few, but they're sparse. Maybe that you're your brain check if I get an MRI. Sounds like a memory issue. It sounds like they usually need to. I don't think I really need any memories of Kourtney in high school, frankly. I'll pa*s. I have a lot of memories of Kourtney Perry, right? And let me just say that b***h was fun. OK. She still is fun, but it was a different flavor of fun. OK. We digress. This interview was really fun. It was two hours long, you guys. Or an hour and 30 minutes. It was a really long interview. So we're going to split it up. We're going to do half on today's up and then the last hour on the patron. So if you want to get the whole goods, you got to get on the patron on. And guess what? Getting on the page, Ron, that's how you can truly support this pod and keep this show alive. Also, thank you to the three new patrons who have recently subscribed. Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. Seriously, it's it. Nothing makes me happier than getting a notification. The new Petrone like. It's like I'm getting engaged every single time. Like, that's a level of ecstasy. I do it like a little dance, and I just will also want to put a call out to all of my friends who have unsubscribed. You're dead to me. Yeah. What the hell is up all my close friends? I'm just kidding. Do you have close friends who just won? Here's the thing. People are not indentured to be patron subscribers, so if they need to, you know, take a few months off that 799, we understand. Yeah. Yeah. Well, without further ado, enjoy the interview with Ash and we will catch you next week. See you next week, Chan. I just have to tell you, I woke up in the middle of the night last night with a little bit of anxiety. I had half an early bird gummy and I swear to you within 30 minutes, I was peacefully dozing off. Early bird CBD gummies are magic. They're truly magic. They are literally magic. I don't want to travel without them. I don't want to be without them. I think it's the twelve point five milligrams of CBD, two point five milligrams of THC. It's that little c**ktail. It gives you the warmest gulyas fuzzy best feeling. If feels so good, it's so light. Also, one bottle last so long, it's a lot of product. Also, I feel like I prefer it to drinking at this point. Absolutely. You guys go to Earlybird CBD. Com Use Code Pop Apologists 20 for 20 percent off your order. You will not regret it. Earlybird CBD Icon Use Code Pop Apologist 20 All right, time to take a moment for one of our incredible sponsors, Spade and Sparrow's. If you've been with the Pod for a minute, you know we are big fans of this wine and y'all may or may not know this. But Spade and Sarah's was created by Kaitlyn Bristowe. Bachelorette star and fellow podcaster Women supporting women. We love to see it. We also love to drink it. OK, but actually, it is divine. The rosé is my personal fave. You know, it's just great for pairing with some high quality reality television. Or, you know, maybe you're looking at the latest photos of Kourtney and Travis from DeMar. Or maybe you're like me and you just like to fill up your online shopping carts, you know, for a little rush at the end of the day, no matter what. Spade and Sparrow's makes for a truly stunning sipping experience. Spade's Barrows is available in select liquor stores across Canada, as well as select Walmarts in California. It's also available online at Spade and Sparrows dot com. As always, our listeners get a little discount, so enter Code Pop Apologists 15 at checkout to receive 15 percent off your first purchase. Well, well, well, we are joined, it's a very exciting day, joined by our one and only eldest, Bledsoe's sister, Ash, John's daughter. She came out of the shadows. Ash, welcome to the program. Welcome. Thank you. I'm sorry. Ashley, how does it feel to have two younger sisters who are famous? Hmm. The question was three, but but it feels excellent. Oh, sorry, I forgot about Courtney for a minute. I forget Courtney existed. Woops, I love it. OK, Ash, you know you are definitely the most idiosyncratic and I will say eccentric of all of us, for sure. Absolutely. This this can be found even in your name, right? Because right now you go buy Ash Jonsdottir and have for the past 10 years, but you were not thus born. You write your name when you came onto the Earth and were born onto this generation. Was Ashley Bledsoe, right? That's around 25. Around 25. You got married to a man named Derrick Johnson and promptly did not change your last name to his last name, but instead formed a last name of your own. And so this is the first question I think that we should get to. What prompted you to change your name, and can you please tell us the story? Yeah, well, that's an interesting question. So I actually planned to change my name years before I met my husband. I was taking Scandinavian genealogy at BYU, and I'm sure you can all sympathize. But Bledsoe is not the most appealing last name, in my opinion. And when I was taking Scandinavian genealogy at BYU, I found out that about that system of naming which a lot of our ancestors used if you go back far enough. In fact, it was always, you know, if you go back far enough, that's how most of our ancestors, like a lot of them at least, and who came from certain countries like got their last name was through taking the father's first name and then either a daughter or son after it. And so that was something I had always been meaning to do. And so, yeah, I just, you know, just did it done well. My my middle name is Anderson, which is a classic Scandinavian like son of Anders. So maybe. And then to Anders daughter. Right. Well, and like exactly. I mean, well, actually yours would just be John's daughter. Oh, shoot, you're not actually the daughter of Anders Breivik. Yeah. So classic. So that was just something I always wanted to do like since I took Scandinavian genealogy, just because I really didn't like the last name Bledsoe. And so, yeah, that's why I did it. People wanted to know about our family's reaction, especially our parents reaction to this rejection of your given last name. Well, you know, like the thing is like, I mean, we all grew up hearing our mom talk about how the last name Bledsoe was. I think her favorite word to describe it was hideous. I don't know if you guys remember that, but that's how I remember her describing her last name. So I think she was she was happy for me. And then I think dad thought it was a little quirky, though. No way. No in terms of be accurate in that. It's true. It's so funny. I remember Dad actually saying she needs to take his last name. And that was it. That was all I heard about your name change. And you have been firmly asked Jones daughter in my brain ever since. I don't think I still don't. How to spell it. Can you spell it for me on air so I can always have it as a point of reference? It's J. H. A.. D.O.T. i r. OK. Have you ever regretted changing your name to that or? No, no, no. I definitely have never regretted not being known as Bledsoe and I. Yeah. Do you feel disconnected from Lauren and I? Because of this, I guess so, I guess I don't really like until you like mom, like literally apologizing to us as kids about our last name. That's the thing I feel like Mom gave us a complex of hating her last name, but totally false. Like, I've like made comments like disparaging comments about my last name to friends and they're like, What are you talking about? It's just like a normal last name. And I'm like, Oh no, it's awful. It's so true. I just remember Mom talking about how, like on her first date with dad, she was like, What's your last date? And he was like Bledsoe, and he's and she was like, That's a terrible last name. And dad said, Be careful, you don't want to eat your words someday. I think that's what the story was, right? Yes, something like that. Yeah, but yeah, I grew up hating it. And so I was just looking for an opportunity to change it to something I liked. OK. But I remember a mom apologizing to me about it, like with actual tears in her eyes about like how terrible it like, Gosh, this is a crazy. It's like there are worse last names out there. Well, what's so funny about that? OK, well, what's hilarious when I was little, you know, I'm going to take Keegan's last name, but I kind of like to shop around for opinions. So I think I was talking to Ashley and Courtney about like, Oh, should I take Hagan's last name or should I stick with Bledsoe? And both of them were like, Oh, not anything, but Bledsoe. Anything's better than Bledsoe. I mean, Atkinson is a great last night. I think there are better last names and Bledsoe like far better ones, but it's not the worst one in the world. It's not. There's nothing embarrassing about it. I would agree. I would agree. And I I one point was going to change my last name to Thompson and takes take. Mom's maiden name literally sounds to be able to fake her identity so much so well known other than her the last four of her social. Ah yeah, yeah, exactly. Anyway, I was going to change my last name to Thompson, but I remember an ex-boyfriend told me that Bledsoe was a much cooler, more unique last name than Thompson, which she thought was very generic. All you and your ex-boyfriend did you break up with him because he had bad taste, right? No, I'm just saying I thought that was very validating and sweet actually with the blood bloodsuckers out there. And I don't think Brett and I don't think I don't think I don't think Bledsoe is a bad last name. I want to say that for the record, especially since I know a lot of our cousins and uncles listen to this. It's not about bad last name at all. And I've actually considered like, you know, will I keep it or will I hyphenate or what? I don't know. On the topic of blood, so let's talk about Bledsoe family folklore. Growing up with Ashley as our sister, obviously she's an expert when it comes to all things skin skincare, and she's a certified professional midwife. She's a wealth of knowledge, but we need to bring her, you know, we need to humble her for a minute and make sure she knows where she came from. OK, because growing up with Ashley as your sister, it's a unique experience. Ashley was just so utterly smart from day one and just had the most biting responses and those eloquent responses. And anyway, one of my favorite stories about Ashley was actually when she was apparently this this is family legend, but when Ashley was like six years old and she was had gotten in a lot of trouble for doing something. Ashley, do you know what story I'm about to tell? Because I do not know her, and this is not the time I got kicked out of Spanish class, right? No, this is OK. You know, do you remember what you got in trouble for when you when you talked to Heavenly Father? Oh, OK, this story? Yeah. No, it was. It was for telling my Sunday school teacher that I thought that it was either I thought or my mom thought her hair looked like a hairpiece or a wig. Excellent. OK, excellent. Thank you, actually. So yeah. So I guess this poor Sunday school teacher marches up to mom after class and, you know, tells her that she's been accused in front of the class of wearing a wig. Oh, yeah, that's right, Mom said. You said that my mom said, you wear a wig, which is honestly, really good. It's a really good and and it's just children telling the truth. But, you know, moms caught red handed with her gossip, you know? And so you get home, you're in big trouble and mom tells you, you know, you need to go you to go upstairs. You need to pray to your father like and you need to, you know, come back to me after you basically conversed with the day after you've asked for the heavens. Yeah, so. So apparently you come back downstairs after like 30 minutes or so and mom's like, How did you say your prayers? Like, how did it go? Sure. My mom says that, Ashley said. I did, and I do, and I talked to my father and he said, Don't tell your dad and have a nice day. You know, I I have no direct memory of that event, but that's apparently what happened. It sounds about right. I mean, I just wonder that we aren't really talking about this revelation. The fact that you, you know, had such a direct communication with the heavens at such an early age is very impressive. And just what a polite guy got us and have a nice day. Nice day. You might as well be a Bank of America teller, right? I probably thought that added a nice touch of realism. OK. Another funny story about actually is that when she was a kid, she was a little bit miserly. You know, she was always after some coin and apparently she would draw these drawings, but she thought they're ugly. And so she would have her two friends from the neighborhood go and sell them for her, Connie and Eden. And the story goes, they're going through the neighborhood and we knock on doors to try to sell this artwork. Wait a second. The original concept, really, the artwork was fine. Like, I was just like doing like these. Like, you know, these sunset pictures with blue and purple crayons and then like the yellow and orange pants for the sunset. But then, like once I realized I had to like mass produce them like, you know, like the concept fell off a little bit and I was just shocked to churn out these pictures as fast as you could, right? So, OK, so the funniest part about this is is so Ashley has like her two friends basically as her like, you know, her down line selling her artwork throughout the neighborhood. Of course, she's not going to be a sales rep. She's the CEO of the company at home in Jasper. Exactly. And apparently at one point, my grandmother, our late, wonderful grandma, Marge asked, you know, apparently Ashley's pestering her to buy a piece of her artwork. So Ashley showed her all the artwork was trying to get her, you know, to to make a high bid, Graham said. Well, you know, I'll, you know, I'll take what? What's your favorite? You know, I'll take one of the I'll take whatever is your favorite. And Ashley replied, I don't like any of us anyway. Chan, do you have any funny stories about Ashley as a child? Oh, I think I love Ashley's response to you getting drunk with the Mike's hard lemonade. And it's like, it's just this is just we'll just further push off of, you know, the character where we're telling you about Lauren. You know, if you haven't heard the story, Lauren was babysitting and she accidentally drank two bottles of Mike's hard lemonade. And that thinking that they were regular lemonade, she was about 13 or 14. I think I was 12. I'm sorry because we still lived on viewpoint. Yeah, that's true. OK, so she was very young and Ashley, my mom was on the phone with Lauren kind of overhearing what was happening. And Ashley, well, you know, just sipping on a can of orange soda from the couch just casually chimes in. She's going to be as drunk as a skunk. Who knows where that came from? No idea. I have a store. I could talk about the terror that I faced at Ashley's, you know, at the at the reign of Ashley, her older sister. I could tell I could speak to that, but I thought it was nice to you. You, I mean, you were nice to me. I know you were nice to me until I was like much older. Yeah, you were like, not a nice older sister tickled me. I wasn't nice to Lauren. But like, I mean, here's the thing. Here's OK, there's there's two narratives in my head. There was the Ashley that I knew after she went to college, and that actually was extremely nice to me that actually it was like basically like like we are with James or she like, she took me to the aquarium every weekend and she would take me to go see like Lord of the Rings. And I do have fond memories of that, Ashley. Oh, that's true. It's not the Ashley that we're spending time talking about right now. Right now we're talking about the Ashley who tickled me till I paid my pants before a wedding I was supposed to be in. Truly, she became I actually ended up becoming a person who would put her pants somewhat, somewhat frequently, and I always blame you for that. In my defense, they didn't have all those new age consent for kids, you know, story, but no clue. I know it was her body, her choice, right? I had no idea. And, you know, no means now anyways. So there was that. Actually, there was also the Ashley who's a spoiled the entire twilight series. For me, it was like a gleeful chuckle. She was like Bella and Edward get married. And then they named their baby Renesmee. So that's that's one actually, I remember. Oh my gosh, that's so funny, because I actually. Really, remember when the fifth Harry Potter book came out, I remember Ashley and I both were voracious Harry Potter readers. And Ash Ashley finished the book faster than me, like much faster than me. And then, just like I said with a smug smile, she just looked at me and said, Snape kills Dumbledore. I'm so cruel. It's just so it's so, so horrific. Looking back, Oh my gosh, actually, you were just so interesting because you were, like, so incredibly antisocial. You spend all of your time in your room and mom thought you were like, basically like the next Unabomber, essentially. But you were just always essentially like on your on some sort of like nerdy binge or whatever thing you were interested in at the time. And anyway, you were just such a funny like, first of all, such a funny first child, her mom, like, I bet you, mom just thought like this. Kate can actually be genetically related to me. And obviously such a such unique person to be related to you. But I'm so grateful to be related to you because you truly are so smart and thoughtful and you become an extremely kind and good hearted adult. It's like a miracle of miracles, really. And anyway, like, I had a question yesterday and I was planning to do something and you sent me an article that I completely changed my course of opinion and like you generally do. So anyway, I'm very grateful, very grateful that you're my older sister. Do you feel guilty about spoiling Twilight and Harry Potter? Be honest. No, I do feel grateful that I'm both of your older sister, I know I actually I do feel like the thing I do feel guilty for is like, I do feel guilty for how much I used to tease and my like. I don't remember teasing generally that much, but I do remember teasing like Courtney and Lauren to a degree that I do feel bad about. Oh my gosh, when I was a child, I wanted to be an attorney when I grew up. And I remember voicing this. You know this this innocent dream to Ashley. At one point we were actually on an airplane. I remember this and she looked at me and she said, a freckled attorney. I don't think I will take you seriously. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, I didn't remember that story until you saw of freckled attorney. Just like anything to rub it in. Oh my gosh, this is so funny. Sarah O'Brien OK, Ashley, was it? And then like I remember when I was in the advertising program at BYU, I called Ashley was like, So excited. I was like, Ashley, I think I found something. I'm going to graduate and be able to actually get a job like, I'm super excited about this. And she was just like, What are you kidding me? Like advertising? What are you going to do? You're just going to be like selling, selling people stuff they don't need. Like what is and what is stuff? What are products? Products are the conversion from the living to the dead trees into into like essentially saying, like all products for evil because it was the conversion of like organic material into like it's like making the human into waste rice for making the living dead. That's like, I remember you repeating that to me when I was exploring the advertising program. I mean, no lies, we're told. But and they eventually give up on making the world a better place. So I think that's much to everyone's relief. OK, Ashley, we've regaled the listeners with tales of growing up with us sisters. Can you at all explain what it was like to grow up with Chandler and Lauren myself as your sister, if you wouldn't mind? Yeah. So let's see. So I just remember. So, Chandler, I just have like sweet memories of like I just remember her, like I remember her, like being the first. Daughter, that was like, oh, like, I don't know, like where I felt like this was the first time, like, I'm almost an adult and like Deborah has like a baby. And so it's just like it was just like Chandler was like, Oh, this little cute, baby. So I don't know. I have like lots of sweet memories of Chandler, just like, I don't know, I just remember her being like, essentially just like a very sweet little girl always wanting to, like, help everyone or please or like do good things. I don't know. I just have like really sweet memories of Chandler and then Lauren. I feel like looking back, you were probably just a similar kid, but because like I was at a different age, like it, it it hit differently. Like, I just remember you be like, like I remember me and Courtney being, like, considered like the lemon and Lemuel of our family group. And then like, you were like Nephi and like, you were, like, considered like the righteous one who would like to sing hymns and like, you know, like, like you would just like, I don't know, I just remember you like. Like, just say you very much had like this personality that was like. Very, I would say, just like, I don't know, you always had like this vision of yourself as like this windswept romantic person like me. Tell me about it. One time at one time I did. Yes. Yeah. And so it was always like, I don't know, you always had like this really strong like. And I just remember, like me and Courtney like always being annoyed because like, you were the one who like, like if Courtney and I got into an argument or got into a scuffle like we could always like, talk the other one down from like reporting to mom or like tattle tailing and like that was not really an option with you like you you didn't like, except like siblings negotiations. And so there was kind of like this divide that developed where it was like, Oh, like Lauren's, like the narc in our family. Like, yeah, like, you know, we can't really cut loose around Lauren. And so. So you remember that? And then I also remember, like, I just like like honestly, my biggest memory of you as a kid is just like. Like just walking around the halls, just like singing songs and like the soprano voice like, Oh God, this is so embarrassing, OK, let's go to the opera and enough. That's good. That's good. Thank you, OK? I was finally cringing. I do feel like Ashley to get some credit right now for a system that was used throughout my childhood, which was tattletale. Passes actually did come up with this form of currency. It was, you know, a bitcoin. Before its time, Ashley used to use this to her. You know, we could get something in exchange for a tattletale pass to actually be doing something wrong. And we would we would actually would tell you if I can use a tattletale pass like I'll do something for you. And I remember like one of the times she, like, set up my MP three player for me or something because I like she is one of her tattletale passes. Yeah, I mean, I don't remember the day mom found out about tattletale passes, and it was just like, it was like, like the Soviet Union, like the wall, like the wall was coming down for the chocolate total. Like all like all justice was about to be like, really like, I don't know, like reformed in our in our family and and essentially mom. When she found out tattletale passes, it really was like finding out about like Watergate or something like it was like what conspiracy has been conspiring to allow these children to commit injustices without retribution? Yeah. Like the thing was Corbynite. Like, honestly, Courtney and I, I felt like we had developed a pretty good rhythm, a pretty good system like before Lauren came along. Like we like if it just been Courtney and I like, nobody would have gotten in trouble, like growing up, like we would have just covered for each other. She would have covered me. I would have covered her. We would have just like, figured everything out. But then when like you came along with your personality, you just like threw a wrench into everything like you were just like, you know, just like because Courtney and I would like, you know, maybe, you know, not do exactly what our mom wanted in different ways that were like, you know, like, but like. But we both had like our own ways of like maybe not being so obedient that we're like, but you were like you, you kind of like, came along and you didn't care. There weren't really any things that where you needed to like. I don't know. Like, there were just like there was no opportunity ever to, like, get any sort of like. Anything else over your head? I gained more by having moms like loyalty. Oh yeah. And mom's adoration then by either of yours combined like, oh yeah, I just I just gained, you know what I mean? It's like having made a deal with the Gestapo and like Nazi Germany, it's like, like, I just knew exactly where my ROI was and it wasn't coming from you, too. So. So, yeah, I definitely exploited you guys as much as I could. Like any time there was a wrongdoing, I would say pre age 11, any time there was a wrongdoing. Like, you can absolutely bet that I was immediately informing mom and telling her exactly who did it exactly at what time. You know, the details of the scene and I just received so much praise. I mean, you would have thought I was going to be like a female general general authority someday. That's how, like, you know, how much praise I received. And then it all went dramatically down well to use one of your like favorite shows. It was more like me and Kourtney were like June and one of the underhand yes. And you were like Lydia. I was just going to say it was, Has you have more Aunt Lydia vibes, Lauren? No fans. And Lydia, except if she was like an adorable, freckled nine year old who like, sang like Phantom of the Opera and Mormon hymns in a soprano voice wandering around the house. Oh, OK. So this was all pre puberty and then 12 years old heads. And I will say that I think I redeemed myself in the eyes of history and I became the the actually the the layman and Lemuel combined, and you and Courtney were the Nephi, So. It's funny you say you were pre puberty because I feel like even you always had like love on the brain, like you always like, were like, like you were definitely like the most like boy crazy of all of us. Yeah, I think I don't know why I was just psychotically obsessed with like, what can I tell your listeners? Like the thing you said to me about that? Oh, no. Yeah, sure. So I remember one day my one of my long memories is like, you had to be like nine, you're nine or 11 or something like that. You were very young like that. And you just said, like there had been like some. I think there had been recently, like some, you know, message in Sunday school about like, oh, the pleasures of the marriage bed with your dog, something like that. Yeah, something like that. And like you said to me, you said, like, I actually like one day I'm just going to have a sex life and like, there's nothing you can do about it. Oh God. There's no way I said that. You said something approximating that. Like, if that's not a direct quote that was like pretty much exactly what you said. You said, like one day. Yeah. I always remember being, like, extremely offended by the fact that you would always act like put off by the fact that I was like a sexual being. Yes, this is something I can always attest to Gaga about you personally or me about me. But this actually did this exact same thing to me. Yeah, like whenever we mention about having like desires of the flesh, like Ashley would always act like it was like she still goes through some. Maybe because you use phrases like desire. I mean, Ashley was straight up one time said to me, like, I think I was in high school or something and something got up, got brought up about like me making out. And Ashley was like, The thought of you being in that type of scenario makes me want to throw up like dead on like she was just zero. Compassion for me is like a as in my own being. OK, let's do the lesson of OK. OK. OK, so we've given everyone it a taste of what it was like to grow up with Ash as a sister. Ashley, do you prefer only ash or are you OK with Ashley? I mean, I prefer ash, but like, it's not like a big deal to me if someone calls me Ashley, OK? OK, Ash, you have in the time since growing up with us, you have become a certified professional midwife. That is your career. You also have taken a deep scientific interest in skincare. So first of all, tell us about your interest in skincare and how that came about. And like your top tips for people. So I guess, like I just got interested in skin care is like a form of like anti-aging, like I think like I really like, yeah, I like I wanted to like prevent like early aging. And so I got really interested in skin care. And like, I definitely got like, the thing about skin care is like, it's an area of it's like an area of life for like it's like an area of like things in the world where there's like a lot of there's a lot of really good stuff. There's a lot of sort of scammy stuff. There's a lot of stuff that's like, you know, kind of neutral. And so I think because I've always been interested in like what, you know, like, like you said, the scientific side of it like researching what works, what doesn't. Like researching that was always really interesting to me. OK, and what can you tell us? Like, actually works like, OK, let's just start from the very basics. Like, I'm a person with I start to become catatonic, sleepy at about nine p.m.. So the idea of having some sort of like ritual before I go to bed, it's just so hard. So anyway, I'm the most lazy when it comes to anything skincare related because I can't do a nighttime ritual. So can you give me any sort of advice like what would you do if you were my predicament? So I would say if you have only energy for like one skincare product in your life? Sunscreen? Is it like if you if you only are going to put on one sunscreen, one product like at all in your life? It's a toss up for me between sunscreen and retina. But I think sunscreen wins, especially because if you don't use sunscreen with retina like it can make squirting worse. Yeah. And so I would say that, like basically like pop, two products of all time like this will never change it. Our sunscreen and vitamin A and then and by vitamin A retina. A retina. Exactly same thing. And then, you know, some sort of like like excellent moisturizer for your skin because I know you have a similar skin type to me, meaning like dry skin. And so and you know what moisturizer recommend. But yeah, so know I do. Like what moisturizer do you recommend? OK, well, I recommend like the moisturizer that I make with my indie skincare company. So right, OK? Graham Yeah. I mean, there's basically as many different skincare products as there are like eyeshadow shades. I mean, there are. So I mean, you can get as complicated as you want to with it, but really, like you just need like a few simple things to make a difference. And like, I don't think that like if you're like that where you don't want to have some huge routine, I mean, if you just did like just do like a basic routine, like, let's imagine I'm going to spend two minutes at night, two minutes in the morning. What's my routine? OK, so so basically two minutes in the morning, basically a sunscreen and a vitamin C serum. At night, you know whatever method you use to cleanse your face retina. And like the botanical serum I make or another moisturizer that works for your skin type. So my question is with retina I have I've had tubes of it in my drawers forever. I've always been too scared to use it. I don't know how to get started. It terrifies me. I think I'm on the suddenly going to start peeling. I also have like combination skin or my skin will be oily, but then also peel and worry that it's going to heighten that when my skin peels, it's actually like my least favorite thing ever because I can't put on makeup. It just is generally awful. So how do I avoid that process? OK, so with peeling like to some degree, you like? Yeah, like if you're going to use retina consistently for the rest of your life, like you will experience probably peeling at some point, even OK. I mean, you know, like you just kind of have to get past the idea that like, you're never, ever, ever going to peel, OK, if you do, if you start off slow and you do it slowly, you will slow, you know, starting with the lowest percentage, not using it every day. Maybe, you know, starting off like once every three days or something like that, just like doing a thin layer, but like eventually, like, you know, like, especially like during the wintertime, like my skin is now gotten to the point like retina actually thickens your skin, which is OK. Like, it's really good. And like, eventually, like you can get to the point where your your skin is used to it enough, where you won't feel too strongly with it, but like, yeah, you, you might go through some initial peeling, but it's worth it. I know it's literally the greatest skincare product on the planet. Yeah, that's what I've heard. So like, do I need to concentrate it around the problem areas of my face, like I don't even really know, is it? No, you know, like a totally like other world. Yeah. No, you just like you just need to put like a thin I when I play, I just do a thin layer to my face neck and just a little bit downward. That's OK. That's all. And what is it like layer? Is it like a Peamount? Is that a little bit a dime, you know? But I think you could start with that, much like start with a Peamount and then like, you know, sit with my moisturizer, you can. I've done that before. OK. But like just applying it alone to bare skin like it's it's great to. OK. Yeah, OK. I've done some research on right now, and some of the research I've seen has said that you really don't need any of the adverse effects to gain the benefits. And basically, you can just start really, really with a low dosage and a low like amount so you can just build up your tolerance. My favorite video on this is by this woman named Angie, and she's on YouTube. Her YouTube channel is hot and flashy. It's about like staying hot in your ears after 50. And anyway, she has like some great intros to retina and these incredible high definition photos of her face before retina and after retinal, like five years later, jinja any skin care until she was 50. So anyway, I recommend that because you think I don't think you really need to deal with any sort of peeling or irritation like you can just really ease your skin into it? OK, that's totally true. Like, you don't need to like, I'm just saying like, I don't. I think you're just that. What I was trying to say with that is like, you're making a big mistake in the long term. If you don't use retina effectively or regularly because you're so scared of peeling, like peeling as it's like, it's like it comes like, you know, happens one day like it, you know, usually by the next day, it's not. It's not too bad. And like, I mean, that's literally just like old layers of your skin coming off most of the time, like when I've gotten peeling, it doesn't even come with like a barrier disruption like skin barrier still fine. So it's not like stinging or anything like that. And it's just like, it's just one of those things where it's like, No, I'm just like gentle. You know, just like gently like exfoliating with like a washcloth in the morning, you can kind of check and see if you have peeling before you head out. But like, you know, retinal peeling, like, that's probably something that's going to happen to like every retinal enthusiast at some point. But like Lauren said, it's also true that like, you don't need to experience it to get the benefit, to know that it's working OK and how soon you I notice any type of difference in my skin and what what could those differences look like? You know, I have been using it for so long that I don't feel like I know the exact answer of like, OK, how soon will you notice like the benefits? But like, I would be surprised if like somebody like using it, like doesn't see like, you know, major changes like like some significant changes to their skin within like a few months of using it, OK? I mean, a lot of it is about like reducing fine lines, says, and so you don't have any fine lines to begin with, then you know, you're not going to see a big reduction in them. So I mean, I do have them. I'm starting to get them a little bit. So I do I want to get ahead of this train before it goes off the tracks, and it will give you just like a like you're going to notice like like if you use right, like I feel like you notice like a glow and like a like a kind of like a fresher look with your skin. Thank you if you don't use it. OK, I'm excited. I could really talk about like the benefits of retina all day. Like, I think it's literally the greatest skincare product. That's what I ever need to like up my percentage amount, because right now I think I have like point zero to five or something. So you will I feel like you even have like the wrong like like my it like would you should say, like when will I ever get to like it? Like, it's like a wonderful journey, like it's an experience like I'm I'm changing. I'm changing my attitude right now. It's a gift like it's a gift to live in, like you don't like. The thing about right now is like if you use rhetoric like you don't need to age at the normal rate, like if you have a right and a prescription and a supply, a bit like nobody who uses it needs to age at the rate they normally would. Yeah. And I do want to throw in that big caution about like it can make your skin more sensitive to sun like I wouldn't. I never applied in the morning or like before I go out and like, have sun exposure. And like, I also would not apply it if I wasn't going to also use sunscreen before going outside at any time or like, you know, like, honestly, like even like like, for example, like just like being at Courtney House the other week. And like, I mean, her house is like a beautiful home with like lots of like natural light coming in like I applied sunscreen to like just like being Courtney's house. Whereas like I live in like a vampire cave with like UV film on the windows and like all the shades closed at all times. So I don't need to, like, apply sunscreen. Like, it's like a, you know, my little skincare cave. And so like, I don't. But if you live in like a nice house like with like Kourtney does with like natural light coming through the windows, like, yeah, you even need to wear sunscreen indoors. Right? Yeah, yeah. Ashley once told me that she made a deal with her husband, that he walks the dog during daylight hours so she doesn't have to go out until, like the sun is fully set. That's one to avoid sun exposure. That's our celebration. OK, OK, so let's. OK, so at night you recommend retina and a moisturizer or your serum. And then in the morning you recommend a vitamin C serum. OK, let's say you have more of a medium tolerance and a medium budget for getting into skin care. What other products do you think really are useful? You know, like the thing about skincare is like, it doesn't have to be so OK. So I like stratas liquid gold. That's another indie skincare company, and I just really love like the liquid gold that they sell. So I love stratas, liquid gold. What is that? It's like a lotion or yeah, it's like it's basically like a skin barrier serum with like Sarah, my cholesterol, fatty acids. That's a that's a fun one. Like, it's not like super necessary, but that's kind of like a that's like a. And then I love like, honestly like. So I would say, like, I mean, my favorite skincare company that's not mine is DC. Like DC is like my, you know, I go to the DC on website and like just like their various sub brands and like, I love, like all the little, you know, pills and potions they sell. Yeah, it's like that. I would just, you know, like and some of the I don't know how you say this, but it's like they have a brand that's like an iodine od or any oat or whatever. Some of the like their their copter, their copper peptide serum is great, you know, like if you want to like, you know, spend a little bit more. OK, so so. So walk us through your routine of someone that's truly going to like, pull out all the stops time wise and budget wise. What's your skincare routine? So it also does depend on like, you know, I've been like it kind of depends on like your depends on like your concerns, but like, OK. But for someone like myself with like, you know, dry skin, like I would say, like if I'm like really pulling out all the stops like something, I'll do it like, so I'll do like, I assume you're going to be like, you know, going outside my vampire cave that day and like being exposed to sunlight like I would do, like vitamin C like reserve, a trial serum from the serum, some snail mucin. And then I'd also do the sunscreen on top of that. And then you can put them all like on one after the other. And they're all it's all effective that way. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I like generally like I'll do like the I tend to do like sunscreen is like the last layer, just because my thought process is like, I don't want to disturb. But once I put it on or like, push that out of one area or like, you know, by applying something else. And so that's what I would do in the morning. And then just like reapplication throughout the day as necessary, you know, and like, I'm assuming some of your listeners like kind of know like some of the basics about applying sunscreen in terms of like, you know, like you need at least a nickel sized amount for your face like you're technically supposed to like, reapply every two hours, all of those things, like if you're having continued sun exposure. I mean, honestly, I would just recommend just like it's not even going out in the Sun. But if you have to look, that's why I literally don't go outside your home just doesn't leave you like, that's honestly one of the best leverage. Yeah, and then like in the evening, just like using like a red light, like a red light, some form of like topical vitamin C, whether that's like a retinol or, you know, obviously like the holy grail, the thing that works, that's proven at the molecular level, that's the best skincare product of all time retinal. My botanical skin perfecting serum or another moisturizer. I love things that are squalane based. That's why I I chose that. But like, you know, something like that, what's the right way? What do you give me a red light? So red light, it's like it's like a it's like red LEDs. It's like there's lots of different like them. But Kourtney uses OK, so just any sort of led red. Yeah, like something like that, like some sort of exposure to LED light that energize your model kind mitochondria and like, you know, kind of like help keep your skin looking a little better. And let's see, like you could use liquid gold at that point, which is the to your product. I recommend recommended. And then at the you can use snail mucin again. I also love like I also love like Vaseline. Like, that's honestly one of my favorite skincare products, too. I know it's like and supposed to be talking about, like, be expensive skincare routine, but honestly, like Vaseline, like does is it is. What is it bad for you? Like I remember, like I like always aqua for a lot or whatever, and people are like, Well, it's, you know, it's petroleum or whatever, like, Oh, it's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I mean, I guess so I haven't like the thing is, like all of that research about like, Okay, this product will actually like cause cancer or something like that, like all of that research. Like, I don't first of all, I think like we use so many like petrochemical products like to me, like Vaseline is like, it's really from the research I've done about it. Like, Yes, it does come from like, you know, it is like in like a petrochemical based product, but it's also like really refined and it's not like, you know, it's not like flicking gasoline on your face. Like, it's not. I don't I don't perceive it as dangerous and like, it's also like widely recommended by dermatologists and like if you look at like what they use for, like burn victims and stuff like that, like, yeah, it's it's considered highly safe. Now that said, obviously, like, you know, as with anything like, it's not like, you know, like if you go to someplace like the Environmental Working Group or something like that, they're going to give you, they're going to tell you something different. Like, I mean, not really. Yeah. I think also I'm not a purist when it comes to chemicals in my food. I mean, I drink Diet Coke, for goodness sakes. So it's like if you're a purist about all things great, great. Good for you. Maybe Vaseline, it's not for you. But like I yeah, I yeah, I've tried the natural alternatives to Vaseline because, you know, I've gone through phases where I try to make everything so natural, right? And I would say that like, there's not like I've tried, like the ones that are like base with like, you know, different, you know, different like like I've tried, like the one I think made by Alba. You know, there's different ones where they use like beeswax or shea butter or different. Yeah. And like, honestly, nothing compares to like the just like the totally like inner occlusive properties of Vaseline. There's not really anything natural I've ever encountered that can totally replicate that. I would say that like. Maybe like the closest thing, like it doesn't feel the same at all on your skin, so it doesn't feel the same at all in your skin, but the closest thing like that, I would say that like maybe like how your skin will feel. The next morning is like something that's got a lot of like Hoba oil in it like that? Yeah. Yeah, that has some similar properties. OK, OK. Good to know. OK, tell us. Tell the listeners about your serum because I feel like for me, it's something that has totally been amazing. It's the one skincare product. I mean, I apply it in the morning and at night like heavily and in my skin to strengthen in. I definitely can see a glow for me. Even Kagan one morning like was like, Well, your skin looks so amazing. So and he never he's like, not observant at all. So anyway, I would love to know, tell people what your skin care product or what your serums called and what's in it and what makes it so special. OK, great. So here's the thing. So as your listeners can probably tell, like I I can talk about like I've been like a skin candidate for so long, I feel like I used to be like, this nanny for this boy who could talk about like Thomas, the train and all the sort of cast of characters. That's kind of how I am about skin care. I really just like and so I'm always trying new things, always doing new stuff and like eventually, like I could never find like a face oil that I felt was like my holy grail face oil and I have dry skin. And so face oils work really, really well for me, like they do for a lot of people with dry skin and even people combination or oily skin. But people, especially with dry skin like face oils, are amazing. And so I wanted to make like my perfect face the oil. And so basically I formulated it just by myself and like I use like a Hoba, because that's probably one of my favorite oils of all time where it just like mimics your skin's. It mimics like your skin sebum. It mimics like basically the natural sources of like moisture you get from your skin. And so I did that and I did Tamina and I did squalane, which is like another thing that just it just basically I put all of my favorite botanicals and oils into one face oil and. Yeah, I've just made it for myself, and then I think I think what happened is like I brought it to like I brought it because I'm a big handicraft gift her like I brought it like as a gift to like Thanksgiving, to like some of you guys and some of my sisters. And then you guys told me, I should, yes, share my formulation with more people. And so I, yeah, I started my little skincare company. I've just been selling it since then. Yeah, it's definitely like something I love doing, like it's I really like honestly, like that's been my like, probably like my main passion. My whole life was like herbal and botanical medicines. But just like just like knowing like the different like things like different like flower oils and botanical oils can do for your skin, like over time. Like what can you explain that like, what do they do for your skin over time? Yeah, like like honestly like so there's kind of like, you know, there's limited like so so I'm just going to preface this by saying like, this is just like based on my research, like this is based on like my research and my experience. But like, you know, like, I believe I kind of like start from a place of belief that like the botanical. And because I guess I've just seen this so much and like midwifery and childbirth that like botanical medicines, like just so like literally the most incredible thing in the world. If you look at like a lot of our pharmaceutical medicines, they're just basically like copies directly from plants like the molecular structures and everything like that, like plants. I do believe that like plants and animals, including us, like have like a relationship that spans eons and like we like co-evolved to like we co-evolved to like, promote each other and like botanical medicines are an expression of that. And so I really just of been playing with botanical medicines like my. The my my whole adult life, and so basically, I, you know, I started off in midwifery just like using botanical medicines like just, you know, telling women and like, you know, like for stuff like labor and like different like anxiety. All of these things, like I just really like made botanical medicine like a big focus of my midwifery practice. And so it was natural for me to be, like, really interested in like what botanicals could do for skin and skin care is kind of my other hobby besides midwifery. And so when I started researching like, OK, like, like, for example, like frankincense oil, that's something that's been used for ages to like, reduce the appearance of like reduce the appearance of like you damage or like Kelly CRISM. That's another botanical that is like, you know, there's some research that indicates that that can unwind some UV damage for for people, which is huge. You know, like, I believe that like it's just been I mean, or even just like like jojoba oil like Hip-Hop, oil is like. It's like 70 percent of what's in my product, because it's like it's just literally the most. It's the most naked feeling oil that's so deeply hydrating that just really like it, just it does it just does amazing things for your skin. Like all of these, like, I almost feel like bad taking credit for my serum because even though I made the recipe, it's like the plants are like the real, like, the plants are people too, and they're like the real stars of the show. Like they really like like plants can do so much for like just like the the botanical compounds, like every, every plant like that you that you use like, you know, it just like contains it's you can't even distill like the effects of a plant into one action. You know, it has like a host of of has a host of actions. And so, yeah, so I think once I started experimenting with like botanical things like, don't get me wrong, like I love like you'll, you'll be your primary right now out of my cold dead hands. But like, really like the I'm also really into the natural side of things too. And like, that's kind of like, why am I my basically my two step skincare routine at this point is réuni and my botanical serum, because it's like, to me, it's like the best of the science world and the best of the natural world. Amazing. Well, it's my it's a truly like a holy grail product for me, and it's the only skincare product that is like, like actually, you know, made a difference in and has inspired me to keep using it because everything else, I just feel like I never see any change. And I just I just always like, Stop. So and I mean, I love it because not only is it like a wonderful product that feels like it smells clean, it smells healthy, like it smells very natural. But the packaging alone, like, I feel like I'm like the richest person in the world, like applying her like serums to like her, you know, rich skin. It's true. It's true. It's a beautiful, beautiful product. Well, and it's all like I handcrafted all in small batches here in Corvallis, Oregon. Like I really and like a big, yeah, I'm really big on like indie like it. Like, that's the thing. Like when you buy, like when like, that's why I love like supporting like small skincare brands like Strata is just because it's like, I feel like when you work with like small indie skincare like, you know, like you have, like you're still at the level where it's like, I don't know, I'm like Steve Jobs in the garage and like 1980, like building this computer for someone like, you know, it's not like, like I was just, like, still something that I just like, have a really big hand in and I am really passionate about. And I'm like, you know, they're at every step like making sure that like, it's like, yeah, like, I really love like, honestly, my favorite thing in the world is when somebody buys my stuff twice because it's like just like knowing that like so because for me, like having like good skin is like, I don't know. It's like there's like a there's just like one of those things where it's like, If I can help somebody have that, that's like, that's for me. That's like a close, but still second to like having somebody have their baby at home. It's just like, I love like having people like have like helping women like, have that feeling like, Oh, my skin looks good. I can like, go outside without makeup and I feel great. Like that to me is like, Yeah. OK, Ash, tell us someone to know, what about sunscreen on top of makeup, is there any sort of mineral sunscreen you can apply that doesn't leave a white cast or like should you be putting your sunscreen on top of your makeup? Yeah. So let's talk about all of these things. OK, so basically so as far as like mineral sunscreens without a cast, that is that is a really tricky. So first, I would interrogate your reader and I would ask them, why do they want a mineral sunscreen? Like, why is it important to them not to have a chemical based on screen? I would first like ask about that because the thing is like, you're never going to get. I mean, a lot of brands have a lot of promises, but you're never going to get a mineral sunscreen that that that has the same sheerness or invisibility as as a chemical based sunscreen. So if that's really important to you, or maybe they have like a darker skin tone where like something like a white cast is more noticeable, like you're probably just going to want to use a chemical sunscreen, but like, let's say, for whatever reason, they just don't want to use a chemical based on screen. As long as I'm just like managing expectations that there's not going to be, I would say probably the best bet is La Roche-Posay, the the mineral based sunscreen they make. It's got like a tint to it, and it's kind of like a skin color based tint, which is kind of normally I don't use or recommend stuff with like a skin color based tent, but like in that case, like it's actually helpful because it's like, you know, it's kind of obscuring the white tint that would otherwise be there. And so it's like it can make it less noticeable. I mean, you can find the thing is like you can find ones like, for example, if you go to like Sephora, Ulta or something, you swatch. Some of these sunscreens that like our middle, you know, you can use like you can find like these mineral ones that, you know, kind of the nanoparticles that are pretty shinier. The problem is is like, I, they're not going to nothing's going to nothing. I would say that nothing mineral base is going to replicate like your naked face, like, like, for example, I know certain chemical sunscreens where I can put them on. And it basically looks the same as a naked face, which is great. It's amazing. That's like the with mineral based if you use the recommended amount and then you're reapplying it. I don't know of anything that really, truly meets that standard of like just like not altering the shadows on your face. And what what's the theory behind even wanting a mineral, a mineral base versus a chemical based sunscreen? It's basically, in those words like chemical sounds like more. Possibly, you know, like harmful than mineral. I think that's where a lot of it comes from. Like that. But really? But that's not something you abide by. I guess it's just more about the fact that like, you know, like, you know, I think like the chemical ones like they're safe enough. And like, I also know that like to me, like the at the end of the day, like we know the Sun causes cancer, like we know the sun is damaging, like we know like that's that's not even that's not even a question that's not even up for dispute, whereas like the possible effects of some of these chemical based sunscreens, like they're they're they're, you know, they're considered safe and like they also like they, you know, like they're also like, the thing about them is like you, you, you use them more because they're less, they're less. I honestly think a lot of mineral sunscreens are just kind of nasty to use because they leave kind of just like this, like, like you said, they can only if you use them at the recommended amounts and you apply them as you should. It can just kind of leave like this like film on your skin, if that makes sense, right? Right. And so that's why I kind of like default a lot of the chemical ones, because they're not, you know, and the thing about the chemical ones, too is like the chemical ones we have in the United States are not even that great. The chemical based sunscreens that you can get from Canada, Europe and most Asian countries, those are the ones that are really amazing, like, you know, like the. That's so that's what I like to tend to use as much as possible. So then to that and talk about your faith, what are your favorite sunscreens? Oh gosh. So my favorite sunscreen is La Roche-Posay, the one that's made in either like the EU or Canada, and it has mix all in it. And that's spelled m e x o r y l. And that is just like a. So the deal with. So just let me back up for a second. The deal with sunscreen in the US is like sunscreen. I know this just from like running my own skincare company that like if I were like, for example, there's no way I would ever make a sunscreen product because it's literally one of the most heavily regulated items you could ever sell to anyone. Just in terms of like the regulatory requirements, just because it's regulated so heavily by the FDA and you don't want to. And so what that means is like, yeah, there's a good that gives you a lot of confidence. Maybe that like they are delivering like what they say they are, which is great. But the problem is also that like sunscreens in the United States, they're like a generation or two behind like sunscreens that are available worldwide because the hoops that have to be cleared for like new sunscreen ingredients to be declared safe and effective. And all of these things like they're just way. I mean, we're basically like applying like 1980 sunscreen to our face when like lots new, better stuff is available. So most skincare nerds I know, like, tend to use like sunscreen, either like just like Japanese sunscreen, Canadian sunscreen, like European sunscreen, just because you can get those ingredients that are like a lot more sheer, a lot better feel for your face and like, provide. Actually, like in the case of Mexico, like a lot better protection against like the more aging you rays. So that's why I like La Roche-Posay with mixed oil. So it is that mix all the thing that's are we not allowed to get that in the US while also the way I do it is like. So here's how I order sunscreen. Like, I go to eBay, I search, mix oral and then like, I find all of this. But then I like I restrict to sellers who are actually shipping me the product from because, you know, like there are pitfalls to like buying these products off of like, yeah, right? But like, I try to restrict to like only sellers. So like, for example, when I bought my sunscreen for the summer, it was like an event where like I found like one seller from Canada, like message them like, you know, I try to restrict it to like buying from the intended country because there are people in the U.S. who like, will resell like these sunscreens. But I don't know. I feel like I trust it more if I can actually get it from the company right where it's widely sold, because I don't feel like there's much incentive for. Yeah, yeah. And can you just go on LaRoche Jose's website and buy it or no? No, no. Well, you can like they sell a US based version, but it's not going to have the max all in it like you need, like the Canadian French version. Interesting. OK. International listeners, let's start a downstream through pop apologists. No, I'm not even kidding. Like if I yeah, that's the that's that's if you have a friend in Canada or Japan or something like that is literally one of the best things you could ask them. OK, OK. Putting a call out from their country. Oh, my gosh, is this seriously so stressful? And if anyone from the FDA is listening, we're not doing that at all. The last thing I want to do is have to buy my sunscreen from eBay to get like some random ingredient. I'm so lazy and you're not, though you don't. You don't accurately represent people who are into skin care because you buy a vino lotion and that's all you use on your face, essentially. So I use actually serum. I will say, Yeah, so which is great. I'm happy for you. But you know, people will go to great lengths for the right skincare products and you can buy like, like, for example, you can buy it like, especially like the I haven't seen the Canadian ones, but like you can buy the Asian ones off of Amazon. You know, like it's I mean, I don't like insane stuff too. Like like I've bought like UV reactive paper and like smeared different sunscreens I bought from Amazon on them and like, tried to like run little tests like at home, like it's red. You're right, like you can get, like, ridiculous about this. That's why I kind of default to putting like a. UV film on my windows, drawing the shades and not going outside. Like, I feel like that's actually the best part. It's just like a lot of work. Just stay home. There's is this. When we were all Kourtney's like two weeks ago or a week ago, Ashley looked at me and she's like, It doesn't look like you haven't been in the Sun. Like, that was her like, subtle way of shading any time yet. It looks like I had had sun damage. I wait a second one. OK? That's what I thought. I said, it doesn't look like you haven't been in the sun. Yeah, I was like, I was like, I don't know what I said, but anyway, your response is basically like, Well, it doesn't look like you haven't been in the sun. Oh my gosh. I think your skin looks great. But but like, like, I like you told us that, you know, she told us that if she was like five inches shorter, that people would think she was 19 at 37, that I actually will will buy. I'll buy that. It will not be the same thing about me, but I will buy that for Ashley. And Ashley told me that she will look 30 at 60. Oh my gosh, it's so funny. OK, I could say that. All right, guys. Thanks for listening to part one of our interview with our sister Ash. Check out Part two on our patron. Yep, this Friday link is in our Instagram bio to sign up. Love you guys ! Bye ! That's all for now, folks. Don't forget. Give us a five star review. Hit us up on Instagram at pharmacologists and we will see you next week. Live every Wednesday. Do you ever worry about running out of interesting things to say to friends when you actually get to see them? Then we've got the perfect podcast for you. I'm Eve Yo Haslam and each week on Book Dreams, my co-host Julie Sternberg and I use books to explore fascinating questions like what happened when a Harvard professor staked her reputation on an alleged gospel of Jesus wife that turned out to be fake. And how did debut author Tom Lynn save the American Western by blowing it to bits? Are pigeons, rats with wings or wonder birds? And what's the who, what, when, where, how and especially why? Of books bound in human skin recent. An upcoming book Dreams Highlights include conversations with Booker Prize winning author Marlon James, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Kathryn Schulz and Merlin Scholar Dr. Laura Campbell. You can listen to book Dreams wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. I'm Emily Burley and I'm Jennifer Chaiken, and we're licensed marriage and family therapist owners of the therapy group and hosts of the String Chicks podcast. 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