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I'm Lola Block and I'm Megan Elizabeth, and we're the hosts of Trust Me, the podcast about cults, extreme belief and the abuse of power now on PodcastOne where real life cult survivors and we're here to tell you anyone can join a cult. If you've ever dived headfirst into a new self-help program or believed wholeheartedly in a spiritual practice, or even just trusted someone with your life? Guess what? You're just the susceptible as everyone else. No one is safe, especially not Meghan. I'm the most susceptible. We want to debunk the methat that people who join cults are uneducated or naive or broken because anyone can be manipulated by a narcissist or feel good in a new group they've joined. And we should know we both happen. Join us every week as we explore the world of extreme belief, talk to survivors and experts, and share our own experiences with cults and the abuse of power. Don't be fooled. You might be next to get new episodes of Trust Me every Wednesday on PodcastOne Spotify, Apple Podcasts and anywhere you get your podcasts. Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 312 of The True Crime All the Time Unsolved podcast on Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Give me. How are you? I'm doing good about you. Doing pretty well. Good and rough week last week. You know, I talked about it, but the family's doing better and we're moving forward. That's good. Let's go ahead and give our patron shout outs. We had Laurian and Webster was going on Webster, Alisha Rice, Ray Rice, Shawn Riley, Riley, Emile. Gersson Zuniga jumped out of the highest level. He thinks Emile Donna Balfour is Donna Moore. Good ol law Chelsea. He joins me now. And Zein, what's up now? Kiera jumped out of the highest level. Kita thank you. Kristen Hacker, a hacker. L J. J. Gwendolyn Wheeler jumped out of our highest level. Hey, appreciate that Wheeler. Michael Hardy. Hey, Michael, Judith Anderson. Hey, Anderson. Olof Urna, Group Genre Doctor. I know there's a lot of people excited when all AF shows up. That's what I'm. That's what I'm going with. Yeah. Hannah Banana. Hey, Hannah Banana. And last but not least, your jumped out our highest level and thank you, York. And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Nicole Baretta. Oh, it's awesome, Nicole. Yeah. So we appreciate all the patrons support. And we had some great PayPal donations from Benjamin Soros, a Soros and Claire Bounty. Appreciate that Claire Gibbs right now on true crime all the time. We have an episode out on Jeffrey MacDonald, the infamous doctor convicted of killing his wife and two girls. Yeah, it's a really good one. It's such an interesting case because there are people in both camps. Sure. You know, people that believe he did it, people that believe he's innocent. And so, you know, you kind of wade through the facts of which there are not that many, right? And, you know, kind of see what you think. Horrific crime. But yeah, that part is not in doubt. No. An absolutely horrific triple murder. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? And so I am ready. We are talking about the murder of Dorothy Jane Scott. Thirty two year old Dorothy Jane Scott went missing close to midnight on May 28th, 1980. Dorothy was last seen at the University of California Irvine Medical Center, where she had taken a co-worker who needed urgent medical care. Dorothy's car was seen speeding out of the parking lot and was found a few hours later, burning in an alley in Santa Ana. But Dorothy was nowhere to be found. Dorothy Jane Skye was born on April 23rd, 1948 in McKeesport, Pennsylvania. According to Find a Great Dorothy's parents were Jacob, Louis Scott and Vera. Arlene McKee. Scott Jacob passed away in 1994 and Viera passed away in 2002. Dorothy had two brothers named Alan and James. Dorothy also had a four year old son named Shante, a.k.a. Shawn, at the time of her disappearance. She and Sean lived with her aunt in Stanton, California. Dorothy was described as a quiet person who enjoyed a peaceful life. She didn't have any known enemies. Her father reported that she was focused on raising her child and rarely went out on dates. She was described by one co-worker as a very sweet religious woman. Her son was everything to her. As is most kids to their parents. Yeah. And you and I have sang the praises of single mothers. Sure. And you know what an amazing job they do and what a hard job it is. Dorothy was not married to her son's father, Dennis Terry. Terry was named in the 1980 Los Angeles Times article. The two met in Missouri when Dorothy was a member of a female music group, so they had this whirlwind romance, but she eventually moved back to California. She didn't talk about Terri all that much with her family. Terri lived in Missouri and didn't see her son often. He and Dorothy had what was described as an amicable relationship for Sean sake. According to Orange County Sheriff's Department investigator Bob Taft, that's the way it should be. At the very least, at least amicable, amicable, you know, amicable. Yeah, I know a lot of people who have a child, whether they don't get married or they get married and get divorced. They have a really hard time having any type of good relationship. But I think it's important for for the sake of the child. If you can do it, I get it. There are some people that. You know, just can't stand each other. Oh, yes. But but if you can make it work, it's for the best. It's better for the child, for sure. Dorothy worked as a secretary at Swingers Site, Shop and custom jobs. So apparently these were two jointly owned novelty gift shops in Anaheim. The Statesman Journal described the site shop as a psychedelic paraphernalia shop. Hey, to me, I'd call that a head shop. Maybe people have heard that term before. Yeah, I don't know if I'm right, but I'm thinking like this old bongs and things like that. But about that shop is trippin. Yea, I got. Yeah, I gotcha. Every morning before work, Dorothy dropped her son off at her parents house in Anaheim. She picked him up after work and brought him back to their home in Stanton in October 1979. Dorothy started receiving, harassing and disturbing phone calls from an unidentified man. He told Dorothy he was watching her and knew her routine. At first, he expressed interest in having a relationship with her. When she rejected him, his calls turned threatening. Dorothy was frightened by these calls, but she didn't tell her parents or report the man to police. She only told some of her friends about the calls before her disappearance. Yeah, these type of calls are scary. I know you've talked about it before and that your mother, yeah, received some of these back in the day. It was really disturbing, but I think about Dorothy single mother with a child. I get it. Some guy wants to go out with you. But it said the man was unidentified. Yeah, so who are you agreeing to go out with? And then obviously it turned scary. When you keep saying no, you keep saying no. In the tone of the calls change right to being more threatening. But I think what I want to talk about is this decision by Dorothy not to tell her parents or report these calls to the police. Now she did tell some of her friends. My daughter is. She probably didn't want to worry her parents, and maybe she didn't feel that this rose to the level of needing to go to the police. I'm speculating here. Yeah, maybe she just said, You know, this guy's being a real jerk kind of trying to scare me, but I really want to go to the police yet now. Yeah. Again, speculation, but that kind of entered my mind. There are things that kids don't tell parents and really vice versa. There are things parents don't tell kids because they don't want to worry them. Sure. If my daughter calls me and tells me that she's getting threatening phone calls, OK, I'm in Rambo dad mode, of course, and actions are going to have to be taken right? I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. On August 19th, 1984, the Los Angeles Herald Examiner published an interview with Virar. Scott Beer discussed what she knew about the harassing phone call. She said Dorothy was terrorized by daily phone calls she received while she was at work. Dorothy realized that the caller knew her location because he once put a rose on her car. Beer is said in this interview. One day, he called and said they'd go outside because he had something for her. She went out and there was a single dead red rose on the windshield of her car. Mrs. Modern Day Stocking? Oh, absolutely stocking. And with the real ominous tone to it. Yeah, right? Not just a red rose. The rose has to be dead, right? Signifying, you know, kind of evil or something bad. Yeah. Is going to happen to you. Beer also told the Herald Examiner Dorothy got one call just before she disappeared. That upset her horribly. The voice said, OK, now you're going to come my way, and when I get you alone, I will cut you up into bits so no one will ever find you. OK, we're way beyond dead rose, right? This is not a signal we're assigned to be interpreted. This person is coming out and saying, Yeah, I'm going to cut you up and no one will ever find you. This is when I would probably say time to go to police. Well, and I think that's absolutely right. You can make the case that early on, she didn't believe that it was all that serious. It didn't rise to the level of, you know, police intervention. But when somebody calls and threatens your life, yeah, I think you need to call the police. And I'm not blaming Dorothy. I don't want anybody to take. That way, Dorothy tried her best to ignore, not worry too much about the caller until she found the rose on her car, according to her co-worker, she had moved three times because of the call. The Orange County Santa Ana Register Evening reported that Dorothy had talked to her co-workers about purchasing a gun. She decided not to because she was worried about her child hurting himself. Dorothy was studying karate, but she only knew the basics. So to me, Gibbs, the I'll cut you up into bits was much worse than the Rose. But you understand the meaning of the rose after you find out that she'd move three times and this guy kept figuring out where she was, still knew where she was located. Figured out her phone numbers that he could continue the harassing phone calls, but also, you know, is telling her, I know where you are, and I'm sure she's scared for her, but also scared for her son. Yeah. Dennis Terry came to California to visit Sean and left a few days before Dorothy went missing. Detective Bob Taft said in his interview with the show on the case with Paula Zahn that Terry asked Dorothy about taking custody of their son for the next four years. Dorothy told him No. Terry returned to Missouri before Dorothy disappeared. And you know, that's kind of a strange interaction. Yeah, especially when the person you're having the interaction with goes missing. Not long after this occurs what mother wants to give up their son for the next four years to a dad who barely sees him. And it seems so strange to me that he would think she would even go for something like that. Yeah, knowing how much she loved him, cared for him, can't imagine she would want to be away from him that far away for four years. On the evening of Wednesday, May 28th, 1980, Dorothy attended an employee meeting. Around nine p.m. She saw that her co-worker, Conrad Bostian, had an infected spider bite. Another co-worker, Pam, had told on the case that Conrad had bumps on his arm the size of a golf ball. Dorothy insisted that he needed medical attention and offered to drive him to the University of California Irvine Medical Center in Orange, California. Pam had went with him. OK, if you have bombs on your arm the size of golf balls, you do need immediate medical attention. Yeah, they probably. I don't need to be a doctor to to call that. What would you say? You probably should've went there first before you went to this event to this? Hey, boss, I can't come because I have golf ball size bumps and arms. It'll be a problem. And I would say, Yeah, yeah, just go straight to the hospital. Don't pass, go. Don't collect $200. Dorothy stopped at her parents house on the way there to check on her son. She also changed her scarves, and Dorothy's clothing would become an important aspect of her case, according to the Orange County Sheriff's Department. Dorothy was wearing jeans, a long sleeved maroon blouse, a red scarf and a turquoise ring. Earlier in the evening, she was wearing a black scarf. So once they got to the hospital, Dorothy and Pam watched TV and read magazines while they waited on Conrad around 11:30 p.m. when he was finished receiving treatment. Dorothy said she would get her car and pick them up at the entrance while Conrad got his prescription. All right, everything seems pretty normal up to this point. Yeah. Besides Conrad's golf ball size bumps, he's going to get his prescriptions and things are going to be OK. The bumps are going to go down, but pretty normal in my experience for one person to go get the car while everybody else is settling up. I'll meet you out front and we'll go. Pam and Conrad waited at the entrance, but Dorothy didn't come to pick them up. They decided to walk over to the parking lot to look for her. They took a few steps towards the parking lot when a white station wagon, the type of car Dorothy drove, came speeding towards them. But the car drove past them and didn't stop at a stop sign. Dorothy's car made a fast turn onto the main road in front of the hospital. Pam told the L.A. Times We waved our hands. There was no way she could have missed us. The car made it right. We started running after it and it sped up. Now, neither one of them could see who was driving the vehicle. It was dark. The headlights were bright, but they assumed it was Dorothy driving the car. Well, you got to be sitting there going, What the heck happened? What's going on here? Hey, you said you'd meet us at the entrance and now you. Your Richard Petty, yeah, now Pam said she thought maybe there was an emergency. She and Conrad waited for Dorothy for two hours, but she never returned to the hospital. Pam called Dorothy's parents. They hadn't seen or heard from her, so she decided to call the police. Officers from the UCI Police Department responded quickly. Pam talked about what happened that evening and how Dorothy sped out of the parking lot. I can safely say there's no way I would wait two hours for somebody to come back and get me. That's me. If a car sped away, I would have been finding a different ride. Then probably 20 minutes. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's 1980. You can get a cab today. It'd be pretty easy to get a new Uber Lyft. I don't know. There's so many different ways to get around. According to the L.A. Times, it was generally agreed that there was no cause for alarm at the time. So police came out, they listened to the story and they just weren't overly concerned. But to be fair, they didn't really have a lot to go on other than the fact that it's believed this woman in her own car, right, took off like a bat out of hell for reasons unknown. What's the big crime there besides running through the stop sign? Yeah, maybe driving too fast, but maybe not being a good friend picking you up like you said you were going to do. But that's not a crime. But yeah, I get where you're going. If you're the police, you're not too worried about that part of it. But this is her friends, and obviously they know her well, and I think they were concerned enough thinking she would never do that to us unless it was an extreme emergency. We called her parents. They knew nothing about it. So we feel like there's something wrong. Yeah, I get that. But I think if you're the police, this is a grown woman and an adult. If she wants to leave her friends there at the hospital, so be it she has every right to. We don't have any evidence is pointing really toward her being in trouble or anything like that. Now, obviously, they would think differently knowing what will ultimately come out for sure. Yeah, but they don't have that information. At the time, Pam walked the officers over to where Dorothy had parked. They found a pack of Marlboro cigarettes and a box of tissues on the ground. Pam and Conrad worried that these items fell out of the car during the struggle. The UCI Police documented what happened, but again, there just wasn't any evidence to convince them of, you know, any type of foul play at that time. True crime all the time unsolved is brought to you by progressive insurance. Let's face it, sometimes multitasking can be overwhelming. Like when your favorite podcast is playing and the person next to you is talking and your car fan is blasting all while you're trying to find the perfect parking spot. But then again, sometimes multitasking is easy, like quoting with progressive insurance. They do the hard work of comparing rates so you can find a great rate that works for you, even if it's not with them. Give their nifty comparison tool a try, and you might just find getting the rate and coverage you deserve is easy. 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And now that's master class.com/ unsolved to get up to 35 percent off for Mother's Day early on May 29th, 1980, a resident in Santa Ana called the police to report smoke in an alleyway at five a.m.. Santa Ana police officers found Dorothy's car on fire in an alleyway in the 800 block of South Townsend, about five miles from the UCI Medical Center. Dorothy was not found inside or anywhere near the burning vehicle. Now, of course, this burning car was suspicious and the police suspected that Dorothy might have been kidnapped from the hospital rather than leaving of her own free will, because now they have more information. Exactly. That's not good. The fire destroyed all of the evidence inside the car, but investigators did find a gas can in the back. It seemed like Dorothy's kidnapper or doctor was in a rush when they set the fire, according to Detective Bob Taft. The headlights were left on in the driver's side. Window was open. No one in the area reported seeing anything suspicious before or after the fire. The UCI Police asked Dorothy's father, Jacob Scott, to try to keep information about Dorothy's disappearance out of the news. He agreed. I don't know why they're trying to get him to do this. Yeah, that was kind of the first thing that entered my mind. I didn't understand the thought process behind it. Normally, if you think somebody has been kidnapped, wouldn't you want to get that information out about this person so that you know, someone might see them and call back in and report a sighting? Well, sure, because we have learned after many cases that the first 72 hours is critical. Investigators immediately wanted to look into Dennis Terry. They worried that a custody dispute could be a motive for him to want to harm Dorothy. No one at the hospital saw or heard a struggle at the time of Dorothy's disappearance, which suggested to the authorities that she might have known her doctor. And I think this is a valid theory. Number one, you're always going to look at the current or ex. Of course. Yeah, that's just a given. And on top of that, what we said about this interaction that occurred between the two of them before her disappearance, right before he left, where he asked to have custody of their son for four years, which was a strange request. Innocence, yeah. And I think once police find out about it, it's just going to make them want to look at him. You know that much more, according to a 1980 L.A. Times article. Dennis Terry called from Missouri on the day of the kidnapping. Jacob Scott called him back that evening, and Terri answered the phone. Dorothy's family was surprised to hear that he had asked for custody of Shawn because he hadn't really shown that much interest in him before investigators found Dennis Terry and spoke with him. He denied having anything to do with Dorothy's disappearance and claimed he was in Missouri at that time. He had a receipt that showed he took a bus home from California, and witnesses confirmed that they dropped him off at the bus station. Well, so let's see. Let me think about this. He has a receipt for the bus ticket. Mm hmm. And you have a witness who said I dropped him off at the bus station in California. But how do we know he actually exactly took the bus all the way to Missouri? Yeah, we don't. And then one of Dorothy's friends told the police about the threatening. Phone call she received, which was also the first time her family heard about it, a week after Dorothy's disappearance. The Scots received a call from an unidentified man. Viera answered the phone that day. The following quotes come from the L.A. Times. The caller asked, Are you related to Dorothy Scott? Bureau said yes. The caller said, I've got her and hung up. You want to talk about fear? Yeah. Well, first off, your daughter is missing and then a person calls and says, I've got her and then just hangs up. I'm shaking a little bit right now. You're thinking of, you know, being in that position, having that knowledge and getting that phone call. It's kind of a spine chilling type deal. And I think you add on top of that that, you know, the family just found out that Dorothy was receiving these disturbing phone calls because remember, she didn't confide that yes, she didn't want to. She didn't want put that on them. Yeah. Well, that's what we speculate, right? I don't know what else the reason would have been. But you also have to remember that nobody knows about her disappearance because the family and police haven't let that out yet. So this is most likely somebody that could have something to do with her disappearance instead of some of the other cases we've covered where you find out you have these sick individuals that like to call the family and pretend they have information or that they are the kidnapper? Yeah. According to the L.A. Times, the Scotts had agreed to keep the case quiet in case Dorothy's abductor called to make demands. But eventually, Jacob Scott contacted the Santa Ana register because he said the light at the end of the tunnel seemed to be getting down. And I get that. OK, the police ask you to do this. You agree. But every day that goes by and you don't see results. Eventually, it's just going to push you to act on your own. Yeah, you have to do something to change it up. The register published a story about Dorothy's disappearance on Thursday, June 12, 1980. That same morning, managing editor Pat Riley received a phone call from an unidentified man who claimed to be the kidnapper, as reported by the Santa Ana Orange County Register evening. The caller told Riley he would only talk for two minutes. The man said that Dorothy called him to tell him she was at the UCI Medical Center on the night of her disappearance. The man on the phone said he kidnapped Dorothy and twice said he killed her. The caller said he met Dorothy at the medical center and asked her about another man. She denied being involved with anyone else, but he insisted she was and indicated he had pictures to prove it. The caller told Reilly, Dorothy, Jane, Scott, she was my love. I caught her cheating with another man. She denied having another man. I killed her. OK. Another very disturbing phone call. Yeah. Now it's not to the family, but it would be disturbing to anybody, even if they weren't related to Dorothy Scott. It just seems strange that, you know, he's calling the editor of a paper and, you know, telling him this information. Why? I think that's the question you have to ask Why is it kind of like a zodiac vibe BTK type? Yeah, maybe. Maybe it's a situation where, OK, he's made the phone call to the family, you know, scared them, harass them. Now, possibly he's trying to get a little publicity for either his actions. If he really did do this or he's just playing a game and trying to get them to print something, Riley told the L.A. Times. After a lot of years, you get a feeling about people. He did sound genuine. The police believe that this call was not a hoax because the man new details that were not public knowledge at that time, such as the color of Dorothy's scarf, and we mentioned it earlier that this scarf, her changing her scarf before she went out later at night, would come back up. Yeah, it was black. She changed it to red. I think the police have to look at this seriously because if the caller knows the color of her scarf, it makes you think he really did meet her at the hospital. Yeah, because how else could he have gotten that information? Who knew the two friends that she was with knew there would have been some people in the hospital? So could. This had been somebody that worked at the hospital that was calling, maybe, but very few people, I think would have know what color that scarf was. It wasn't printed in the paper. The register reported that Dorothy went to the UCI Medical Center with her co-workers because Conrad Boston had a badly infected arm. But the caller specifically said that he had a spider bite. So here you also have to look at how many people would have known this. Now there's a little wider range here, of course, because this was talked about at the meeting, right? The work meeting, obviously, the two people would have known a lot of people at the hospital or however many people at the hospital would have known, but is still pretty limited. Pool of individuals and the police figured that out. They determined that only a few people could have known this information, and the story was exclusive to the register in order to prevent the caller from learning information from other media outlets. While the call was an important development in the case, it was devastating for Dorothy's family. UCI Police Chief Michael Mitchell told the L.A. Times The Scots are probably reaching the point that we have reached, that we probably won't find her a lot. There is always a glimmer of hope, but it isn't very bright as rough it is. I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm just saying it's rough to hear. But if you take in consideration what the caller said that he killed her, it's not good now because I think if you're looking at that call, you're thinking this person is not playing around. This is the abductor. And so if he says he killed her, it could very well be true. Now, Pam Head disputed the caller's claims that Dorothy contacted him because she was with Dorothy the entire time they were at the hospital, except for when Dorothy used a restroom for a few minutes. And this is 1980. I mean, people aren't walking around with cell phone. No. So if the person doesn't leave your side except to go to the restroom, you're not making a call from inside the restroom on their cell phone. Now, could she have slipped away for a second? Found a payphone? Possibly. Maybe. There was a lot of speculation about who the caller could be. As we talked about earlier in the episode, Dorothy had no known enemies and she didn't have a boyfriend, Jacob Scott told the L.A. Times. We just can't put that together. She worked from morning to evening. She lives with my sister. She might have had an occasional day, but they were few and far between. According to information presented in the on the case episode, some investigators weren't sure that the man who called the paper was Dorothy's abductor. He was described as southern and possibly African-American, which was reportedly different from the previous call. So I'm getting from that. The descriptions of this person's voice were different. Different, yeah. The show also reported that a newspaper in Missouri received an envelope with an article about the case inside. Someone had written Tisk Tisk on the article. There was no way to identify who wrote it or where they sent it from. Who says Tisk Tisk anymore? Yeah, I don't know. That's that seems old school. It is to me, this all seems very mysterious. Yeah, I mean this. This is a case with a lot of mystery around it. I mean, a lot of unsolved cases have that, but you know, this has its fair share. There's no doubt about it. This would not be the end of the anonymous phone calls for the next four years. Dorothy's parents were tormented by an unidentified caller. The man called their house almost every Wednesday afternoon, according to the Orange County Santa Ana Register evening. Viera was usually the one who answered the calls because she was home in the afternoon. Jacob and Viren never changed their number because they hope that if Dorothy was still alive, she would be able to talk to them. They also couldn't change their number because they ran a general engineering contracting business out of their home. I give both of them to me. The the first part is more important if your child disappears, you ain't changing your no no. Most likely, I would think most people wouldn't move. They wouldn't change their number. They just want to hang on to that hope that their loved one is going to contact them. And how are they going to write if they move and and or change their number? I can never change my number in some of these calls, the man said he killed. Orthe other times, he said she was still alive despite their efforts, the police could not trace the phone calls because the caller didn't stay on the line long enough for them to trace the calls. With the technology they had in the 80s, you know, there's there's always that one part in the thriller movies or where the caller knows exactly how long they can stay on the line and they hang up a second or two before the call can be traced. Yeah, and on the other end, you always got the police saying, Give Typekit, keep them. We need more time. We need more time. By July 1980, Dorothy's parents offered a $2500 reward for information leading to her body or her whereabouts. Jacob Scott said in a phone call with the register This far down the road, if we can just get the body, if that's what he's done with her killed her. Maybe we could go on and live a normal life and we hear this so very often. Now, obviously, families are heartbroken when family members are killed. Sure. In any manner. But this not knowing and not having your loved one's body is is a really big deal to these families. It hurts. Yeah, I think they need it. You know, they need to know what happened. He appealed to the killer, saying, I don't know what the guy wants if he really ever had any love or compassion for her. It just seems a decent thing to do to give her body to us so she can have a Christian burial. That's not too much to ask, is it? And I actually think this is a really smart statement or question however you want to look at it. It does often work to appeal to killers or abductors or, you know, whatever it is, if you can make a person seem human to them in their eyes, if he can humanize them, if you can do whatever, well, maybe they change their mind, right? Maybe they have already killed her and decide, Yeah, this is the right thing to do. So they leave her body out somewhere where it would be found. I don't think it's a bad route to go to try not saying it's going to work all the time, but it's worth a shot. Well, if you don't try, you never know. Yeah. According to the L.A. Times, on the morning of August six, 1984, skeletal remains were found by construction workers in a rugged area of North Anaheim. A construction crew was preparing to dig a trench for laying cables under Santa Ana Canyon Road for Pacific Bell Telephone Lines. Foreman Jesse Loza found the bones about 30 feet from the road. Anaheim Police Sergeant Bill Wright said while backing up his tractor over the small trees and shrubs in the area, he observed human bones and called the police. According to the register, Loza found the remains just five minutes after he joked to the backhoe operator to watch out for dead bodies, but he doesn't look like that anymore. No, probably not. But here's another instance of a person just going about their day. Yeah, now he happens to be working. I'm sure he didn't wake up that morning thinking, you know why? There's a good chance I'm going to find a dead body today. Now this is as I'm going about my normal day, my normal routine. And then it's interrupted by this kind of, I guess you could say, life altering find life changing, at least. Searchers found a complete skull to femurs, a pelvis arm and what was determined to be dog bones scattered over a 25 foot area. The bones were found half a mile east of Eucalyptus Drive in northeast Anaheim. The area was surrounded by housing tracts overlooking the Riverside Freeway. This was 10 miles from the hospital where Dorothy was last seen. A woman's wristwatch and turquoise ring were also found in the area. It was sad that the watch stopped at 12:30 a.m. on May 29th, 1980. This was about an hour after Dorothy was lassie. Well, this is really telling, isn't it? Yeah, I think it really tells us a lot. Number one, we know she was wearing a turquoise ring, right? And then you've got this wristwatch that stopped an hour after Dorothy was last seen. I mean, this is not a coincidence. The Anaheim police responded to the scene, but initially the authorities weren't sure if foul play was involved. The death was labeled questionable. Orange County Deputy Coroner Richard Rodriguez told the Register he or she might have been hiking with their dog when Luna. It's kind of a bizarre statement to make to the newspaper. Yeah, I thought so too. I mean, not saying it's wrong, but again, he probably doesn't have much information at the time, but he certainly is not giving much information. The register reported that an anthropologist was called in to help determine the sex and age of the bones. It was not unusual to find human bones in undeveloped areas of Orange County. In those bones were often remains from indigenous burial sites. However, authorities estimated the bones had been there for around two years because they were partly charred. A brush fire had affected this area back in 1982. Deputy Coroner Rodriguez told the paper that the teeth were intact and full of fillings, which would help with identification. The police determined that the remains weren't buried, but they were partially submerged due to erosion. On August 14th, 1984, the skull was identified as belonging to Dorothy Jane Scott. She was identified via dental records by Dr. Robert Kelley, a forensic O'D entomologist on the 15th bureau. Scott confirmed that the ring and watch found with the bones belong to Dorothy. So from that point, the Anaheim police treated the case as a homicide, and the UC Irvine police and the Orange County DA's office assisted Dorothy had finally been found and identified. But her cause of death could not be determined because of the state of her remains. Deputy Coroner Rodriguez told the Register that it was unlikely that Dorothy's death could be scientifically confirmed as a murder, and I hit that. I mean, you know, you are limited. Sure, when all you have is bones now. We have done some stories where the bones have told a story, right? As far as knife marks or now obviously, if you got a bullet hole through the skull, right, that's that's an easy determination. But if you don't have any of that, it's going to be really tough not only to determine the cause of death, but to determine whether it was even a homicide. You know, someone is able to to smother somebody, let's say, with a pillow or, you know, with their hand or something like that. You could tell that from an autopsy if the body was intact, but you could never tell that know from just skeletal remains, I don't believe. I don't see how you would definitely limit it here in. Isn't that one of the the big things that we see in unsolved cases? Probably the reason why some of these are unsolved. There's just very limited information to work with. Sometimes you need some of that information to kickstart the investigation. Yeah. Where do we look? Which way do we go without, you know, really having some of that stuff? On August 16th, Jacob Scott told the L.A. Times before you didn't know whether she was or she wasn't. It's a big relief. It's one hell of a relief and I really want to break that statement down. It's one hell of a relief to find his daughter's roommate, even though it comes with the knowledge that she's no longer alive and just think it shows you how powerful this not knowing really is. Jacob dismissed the connection between Dorothy and the dog bones and said that many dogs were hit and killed Long Canyon Road. Dorothy didn't own a dog at the time of her disappearance. Dorothy's son was eight years old when she was found. At first, her parents told him that she was taking care of a friend. Shawn demanded answers when Dorothy didn't come back after a long time. Scott told the Register he seems to understand what is happening. He said he hopes whoever has his mommy will send her home so he can give her to Jesus. And man, that is heartbreaking. It really is your number one to try to put off telling this kid that, you know, we don't know where your mom is. We don't know if she's going to come back now. They lied to him, but I understand why. Yeah, I mean, they're hoping that eventually she will come home. Yes, she will be back. And then at some point, you know, as the years go on, even a child, you know, starts to understand what is most likely the case. Well, especially if they're going to school, they're hearing things. It's going to be hard to keep it away from him. Yeah, yeah, it is. Dorothy's parents told the press that they had been receiving anonymous phone calls since Dorothy's disappearance. Jacob Scott told the L.A. Times Most calls came in the afternoon when my wife was home. It was a soft spoken voice and they didn't stay on very long. They reported that the call stopped about three months before Dorothy was found. When Jacob answered a nighttime call and told the man he had the wrong number. Jacob and Veer also said they believe the caller is the same individual who harassed Dorothy before she went missing. And I would say there's probably a good chance of that. Yeah. Dorothy's family combined her memorial service with her uncle, James Gilbert's funeral on August 22nd, 1984. James died of cancer that month. James Scott said about his sister to me, she exemplified the word gift. She'd just give and give and give no matter what it cost her. She spent her last hours giving and being concerned about others. Dorothy's remains were not buried that day. They were held at the coroner's forensic facility as evidence, and an officer told the L.A. Times he was uncertain when they would be given to the family. After Dorothy's remains were found, the Scotts received two more anonymous phone calls on August 15. Scott and Viera were at the mortuary, but their son Alan was home and answered the phone. Both times, the man asked, Is Dorothy home? So again, these calls are sick either way, right? But my thought is, you either have the killer taunting the family? Yes, or you've got a sick individual who had nothing to do with Dorothy's disappearance and death, who made the decision to taunt the family. And do you think he met? Is Dorothy home as in her remains? Yeah. Hmm, that's an interesting question. Could it be that he read in the paper that her remains were being held at the the coroner? Maybe. I don't know. Just one in a long line of mysteries in this case. These were the last calls the Scots received from the unidentified man. Jacob and Vera both passed away without finding out who killed their daughter or what happened to her when she was taken from the hospital. The case is currently being investigated by the Orange County Sheriff's Department. Detective Bob Taft has been working on the case since 2017. Taft found a potential suspect named Mike Butler. Mike worked in an auto shop across the street from Dorothy's workplace, and they were friends for several years. Taft found Butler's name in the original case file. The police talked with him early on. He said that he had never been intimate with Dorothy, but he had expressed a desire to marry her. Taft wanted to talk with him, but he passed away by the time he took over the investigation and thirty seven years had passed. Yeah, by the time you know this guy, Bob Taft got it. So you. You've never been intimate with this woman, but you've expressed your desire to her that you want to get married. Yeah. Now a lot of people wait to be into measure until they get married, but they have a relationship. Yeah, normally or at least go on some dates. And I'm not even getting the the thought here that they dated were dating. It's almost as if he just told her he'd like to marry her. But maybe, maybe that was just left out. It's like, I change your tires. You're good to go. You want to get married. I would like to marry you someday. So, you know, I don't know what to make of this guy. Mike Butler Taft has said that he's not really found any new connections between Butler and Dorothy. There is no definitive evidence tying him to her abduction or death. There are currently no suspects, and the case remains unsolved. This individual was also mentioned by a writer called Crime Blogger 1983 in a 2017 blog post. In this blog post was referenced by Mark Hoover in a 2018 article for the Claremont Sun in 2021. Dorothy's case was featured on the show. On the case with Paula Zahn. Paula Zahn spoke with Dorothy's son Sean. Sean said that when he was a young boy, he knew his mother was missing, but his grandparents did everything they could to give him a good life. His grandfather was the one who told him that Dorothy had been found. This was the first time he said he ever saw his grandfather cry. Now I get it. A lot of guys don't cry, especially older guys. Maybe we grew up to think that crying was a bad thing. I'll tell you right now, man, I cry all the time. You do. I cry at movies I'm in. I am a very emotional person and that goes good and bad. You're getting ready to cry right now talking about how you how you like to cry or explode on you. You know, I don't know. See, it goes either way, but I do, man. I'm a sucker for those tear jerker movies. Yeah. And there are some that I just cannot hold back the waterworks you cry commercials. Yeah, some of those Maxwell House commercials mean they really get. Yeah, but you know, it's been more than 40 years since Dorothy was abducted and almost 40 years since her remains were found. Dorothy's families and investigators are left with a lot of questions. Unfortunately, you know, I think when you look at this case, there doesn't seem to be much, if any, forensic evidence that investigators could use to identify a suspect. And I think you have that a lot in cases where you know what is found are skeletal remains, you know, years down the road, right? What are you going to glean a fiber? A hair? Probably not going to be very difficult, if not impossible. But if you have any information about Dorothy's death, you can submit a tip online at O.S. Crime Stoppers Dot or or call the Orange County Sheriff's Department at seven one four six four seven seven zero five five. As we wrap this one up, I really don't know what to make of it. You know, to me, it's hard to discount these phone calls. Yeah, we don't know who was on the other end of that line. It's interesting that people say that the phone calls early on made to Dorothy in the person that called later, I think to her family sounded different. Right? I think, you know, the other thing that jumped out at me about this case is if she wasn't pulled over on the side of the road, she didn't have a flat tire and was all by herself. She was at the hospital with two friends, right? Yeah. And, you know, went to go get the car now she was in a parking garage. Maybe there was nobody else around. Could it have been a killer who, you know, saw an opportunity of a woman alone with nobody else around? I think that's that's a possibility. The problem is it doesn't fit with the phone call, right? So if the phone calls are real, it really kind of gravitates toward someone who knew her or was fixated on her. Maybe knew her is not the right term, right? Maybe they thought they knew her better than they really knew each other. Yeah, I mean, she may have known of him. Yeah, but didn't know him. And maybe he changed the oil in her car every now and then. It's very possible. But if she would have went out to get her car and her two friends went with her, this might not have ever happened. I think the opportunity presented itself to this guy and he took advantage of it, obviously, and this is where we're at. And then I think the only other thing that's thrown me is this person saying that, you know, Dorothy called him from the hospital. Yeah, it's almost as if to meet up. So, you know, I don't know. Overall, it's just a very mysterious case, and he could go probably one of 10 different directions, if not more. Yeah, because like you said, if he called her from the hospital, clearly investigators have probably looked at the phone records from the pay phones, and you would think so, yeah, by now and tracked those numbers down to see if any of them would tell a story. But, you know, 40 years later, here we are. Yeah, I do think this one will be very tough to solve. Sure. Now I've said that about some they ended up being. Yeah. And that's why I never say never. I'm just saying probably tougher than than a lot of them, just because the state of the remains. What evidence really is there? It doesn't seem as though much at all unless the police have something or not on us. Mm hmm. Or as we always talk about somebody has knowledge of the crime and comes forward to to let us know. But so many people have died that were involved. It's very possible that the killer and anybody else that might have known is that that's true. But that's it for our episode on Dorothy Jane Scott. We got some voicemails you and check those out and let's hear those. Hey, making TV. My name is Ashley already calling you from Sioux Falls, South Dakota. We also have the northern accent, though, so I had to make fun of me as you wish. I was just calling in a few dashed and I had looked through your guys with stuff online. I didn't see it. I think it was 2019. There was a nine year old girl named Serenely Dinner that went missing from the Black Hills from a children's home society, which is like a children's inpatient treatment behavioral center. And she was never found. I mean, if they've been looking for her for years, it caused the divorce for parents. It caused so much speculation and conspiracy theories, and there's just a lot going on there. Love you, guys. I'm sorry, Debbie. Listen, you guys every day while I'm at work all day, so as you do about six of your episodes a day? Yeah, no. I just thought maybe something that you guys would be interested in again. Do you think so? Did you hear her say she's team Mike? But she winked and said, Sorry, give me meaning. Did I hear Wink? No, I did not. Meaning that she's really team because she knows my name is Mike, too. Oh, I gotcha. You can't just let me have one. Just let me have same. Now, that sounds like a very interesting case. It does, actually. We need to make sure that we look into that. Yeah, this is Chris and longtime listener. I'm calling about the blue lights in Hawaii. And one of the things is is that the state helps policemen buy a regular car that is service related and all of the police lights are blue. There are no red or anything like that. It's just a simple light on top that's blue, so it could be off duty cop or whatnot. OK, thanks. Keep up the good work and keep your own time ticking. All right. More good information. Certainly, we do another case in Hawaii where it comes up. See, now we're going to know that all the lights are blue. Yeah, I didn't know that. I didn't know that either. Thanks for that. Hi, this is Amy from Sunnyvale, California. I was actually born down the road from you all in Hamilton, Ohio, but I moved away when I was really little. I had to call because I was listening to the Brown Family Disappearance episode, and I can't believe this is what's finally making me call and make. You mentioned making yourself chili spaghetti, and even before you started, a new skyline was coming, actually pumped my fist and you said that chili spaghetti is the best. That's probably the one thing I've taken away from my Ohio roots, even after we the way I grew up eating it because my mom was born and raised in the Cincinnati area, home on there. But if you go to any other part of the country, they think you are insane. Chili spaghetti. So it sounds like you like your three way, but maybe I missed something. So feel free to discuss and maybe explain to people what a three way really is in my heart. I'm going to say I give it because I love you. Give me that, Mike. You and I are. I feel like really alike. So I love you too. So I am team both of you at this point, OK? They said, Keep your own time ticking and keep eating bad. So if they get it. We love you, too. Yeah, so a three way when it comes to chili spaghetti, yeah, is what chili, spaghetti and cheese? And then you can go for a five way which adds onions. Yeah, four way you can either add onions or beans. Hmm. So I always do a four way because I like beans. I would prefer united beans, but you always do. Sometimes you know the five ways add the onions. And then there's a place down in blue ash, which is a suburb. Since Cincinnati, there's a six way where they can add mushrooms on top. Hmm. Which I I don't like mushrooms anyway. I like mushrooms. But that doesn't sound. No. Doesn't that sound to me, either. But if you never had chili spaghetti, they'll nakata you try it. But chili spaghetti to me has to be like the Skyline Chili I don't want like to make chili and poured over London and agave. That's not what it is. Yeah, they have a very it's a little cinnamon chocolate beer flavor. I don't know. It's it's it's own chili. Yeah, it's very good. Yeah, it's very good. Yeah. And they use that really good cheese. Yeah, now I'm hungry now I'm hungry. That's it for another episode of True Crime all the time unsolved. So for Mike and. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking. 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