Sara Teitelman - The Culty Elements of Technology

Transcript

We're paying for places instead of three in the Cheltenham Gold Cup. The ultimate battle for bragging rights at the Cheltenham Festival, will Ireland make it four in a row? All. Will Britain add another to the tally? Paddy Power, in the event of nine runners placed terms, may vary. 18+ Gambling Care, Kentucky. Reconnecting has never been more important. And your Transport for Ireland network is growing and improving to bring you closer to the things that matter most. With new services, longer operating hours, integrated fare options and a move towards cleaner, greener, more comfortable ways to travel for everyone's safety. Please remember to wear a mask on board wherever and whenever you travel with us. Reconnect with the Transport for Ireland network. Plan your next trip. Transport for Ireland Daily. Despite. Welcome to the s**t show things are going to get weird, weird. It's your fave billion kilowatt hour and you're listening to barely famous f**kers. OK, everyone. I am here with Zach, my makeup artist, for barely famous podcast, and I set everything up all by myself. And I've never been more proud of myself. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you because you helped me with the cameras and we did all of this, the whole entire tech start up. And you guys know I suck at tech. OK, I'm ready for this episode, and it's only so f**king good. Long time coming. Yes. OK, Zach tells me the craziest stories when he does my makeup, and you've seen some crazy s**t in my life. Yeah. And you know how of crazy s**t? Too much, too. Probably too much. Which is crazy because I only see, like every two weeks. Yeah, but it's funny because the craziest s**t always happens when you're here. Yeah. And then we have a lot to catch up on. Yeah, there's like just so much. It's like therapy. Yeah. And your sex stories are absolutely wild, and I love hearing about them and they just I need to know more, you know? Yeah. So we could dive right in or we could talk about, like our back story a little bit. Let's talk about how we met. OK, how do we meet? So I remember I want to. Maybe we remember things differently, but I remember it pretty clear. You posted something saying that you needed a makeup artist on the East Coast, something more regular and someone tagged me in it. And I actually didn't follow you at the time. Thanks a lot. And my 15 minutes was already up and a bunch of people were attacking me in it. And then when I went to messaged you, you replied instantly and we're like, We were actually just looking at your page like, we love your work. Oh, wow. So like, it happened perfectly, right? And then I came and did one of your photoshoots for remember which for pothead hair care, OK? And for the good American jeans. The good American jeans was my whole like life at that time. And those pictures, my makeup, my hair like that was probably top five best feelings. And seeing my whole good American at On the Good American website was like, I literally was like, I f**king made it. Yeah, definitely didn't make it. But like also, I loved it, so I think I really appreciate you for that. I'm glad that you remembered that because I didn't remember it at all. And that was like, what? September of 2019? Was it done? Mm hmm. OK. So like three years ago? Yeah, I guess, like three years to two. But now we are a regular. Yeah, like I have gone to other makeup artists and like, I definitely think they do a good job, but it's just you when you have someone that you work so closely with all the time. Yeah, it just feels it's different when than when you like. And I also I felt guilty, even though when I'm traveling, you can't always come, so I feel guilty using other makeup. Yes. Isn't that weird? I get jealous. Well, I feel like it would be the same for like hair. Like if I was to go somewhere else and not go to my hairstylist like weird Taylor would kill you. Yeah. Yeah, she would be like, What the hell are you doing? Yeah, OK. I also we have like this Halloween tradition. We've done make up three Halloween zero. The first year we did the smoke, the pink. No, the first year was the the blue and purple with the moon and the crystal balls and stuff like that. That was blue and purple. And then we did the pink one. Yeah. And then this year we did the blue like aqua blue. Yeah, they have how you did hers too, right? Yeah. So that's like our Halloween tradition, even though I don't really do like, I always look forward to that. I know I hate that you don't celebrate Halloween, but I mean, you do love holidays in general. I know. Just like, not a fun time. Well, at least you can look forward to the Halloween. Yes, go look. Every year, every year. Although maybe we should do like a character this year. Yeah. You know, I'm going to be 30. I'm very much feeling like Melissa Maleficent. Very misunderstood. Yeah, definitely that, he said. Yeah, OK. So I don't even know really where to start. Outside of that, I've been in New York. What was the craziest? What's the craziest thing that you can think of that you've seen or when we were together? Oh, my God, I don't I know you are crazy. Yeah, New York. And honestly, no one even knows. Nobody knows. No one knows about New York because it didn't air. It didn't add TV. But yeah, that was crazy. That was my second time meeting you. OK, can you tell the listeners, can you describe in detail what occurred in New York? So when New York happened very spontaneously? Because you when I met you for the very first time, you're like, I love this land. Can you come with me in New York? We're filming the podcast or the the the reunion episode. And it just happened really, really fast. And then everything was great. You snuck me into the into the studio and we had to do your makeup in the girls bathroom stall. Why don't I remember that we had to do touch ups because the producers they didn't like, they didn't want, they didn't want us to get in trouble for doing makeup. And you didn't want to use the onset. Yeah, OK, so you snuck me in and we did it in the stall. Yeah, it's like a support person. Yeah. And also my makeup person. Yeah. So you stormed off stage, which we saw. I don't remember this when what? What even happened? I'm trying something with you and Nasser and Nasser told you to chill or something. When you guys were filming the reunion episode, so if I remember correctly. They had me come out to participate with other with the young and that I've never met a young and pregnant cast. So then when all the drama happened, I was like, I didn't come here for this. Yeah. They don't tell me to chill when you guys brought me out here for this reason. Yeah. So I was just kind of like frustrated because I felt like, don't bring me out here and I'm trying to calm everybody down. But you guys want drama, but why am I in this, you know? And behind the scenes, it definitely seemed like they wanted you there for a reason because you were like, but why I'm not on young and pregnant? Yeah, it didn't make sense to me. But yeah, so you were like, Why am I going on stage as well? Because you're like, and you're like, You're you've, you've been through it all. We want you to be out there and like, let them know what they're getting themselves into and you're like, That's not my job. Like, I don't want to do that. And so it seemed like they wanted some sort of drama to happen. But then when I was like participating, like I was being told to chill. So I was like just trying to move because I really thought cast members, we're going to fight a day and it's like, I don't want to do this on camera. I'm like, Yeah, you've been there, done that. Been there. Thank you. And so I think this was what I mean. I had all my kids there, which was already chaos because I stopped bringing my kids to reunions when, you know, s**t was hitting the fan and it just like, wasn't a good time. And so I'd like to pull them out of school for that. It just didn't feel right. But this specific one, I had my kids there and then I had to have help for my kids. And then it was just like a whole production. Yeah, just to get to New York. It was like, I'm not doing this, I'm leaving. And that was the first time I ever left. Like, I've stormed off stage before. We've all seen it. But you left, but I left New York like, I will not be here for the remainder of this, and I remember them like coming to my room and like asking me to stay. And it was just like, No, like, you guys put me in a position to do x y z. And then I couldn't do what. I didn't know what I was there for, like I didn't, and it was not very clear set for me. Mm-Hmm. So what where did happen to you? Like, where do you go when I left? When you left? He was there. Yeah. And you said, I'm in a sprinter going home. Lindsie Chrisley is also in New York. You're going to do her makeup tomorrow instead of mine. And that was it. That's all I knew. And then you sent me her number, and that's how I met her and I did her makeup the next day. Right? And you were like, This is fun. Or you're like, Wow, this is chaotic, and I can't participate in this any longer. It was chaotic, but I was like, I didn't expect anything less. And it was chaotic. They call me killed in the chaos. No, no. I knew what I was getting myself into. So I that's how I met Lindsey. I did her glam, so my day wasn't really any different than what it would have been. Yeah. And then I went home for like I went about my life. Like, this happened. But it was it was quite the chaotic experience. And then no one knew it. No one knew it existed. I don't think that people even knew that I actually left and didn't. I don't. Was there a reunion for Teen Mom, too? Like, I just I don't remember if I participated. If I didn't participate. I don't remember. We were supposed to be there for two days. And you left. Same day. Same day we got there. What an event. Yeah, but I love how close we've gotten over the years and the personal stories that we share, honestly. Amazing. Yeah. I need you to talk about all of your experiences. Well, one that I was trying to tell you while we were clamming today, and you wouldn't let me even finish because you wanted to see that. So you think it's very interesting about my three some stories, OK, time out, so long as he's in a relationship with Stephen, who I love and he's just great and he's went to the office and has also witnessed my bulls**t. But he's just very calm. Cool, collected. Yeah, very shy. Shy. I don't want to say too shy, but shy is a good way. But like, he's he's friendly. He's nice. Quiet. Hmm. And so it's already funny to see like the dynamic between you two, because just very much opposite. Yeah. And so it's funny because you will like commentate and have like the best commentary on all my situations. And even when things are like actively happening, you'll say, like the best one liners. Yeah. And so he'll just sit there quietly. It was just, like, really funny. Yeah. So when you came to me talking about that, you guys were going to start having threesomes, I was like. You're like, not my Steven. Something to click into these. Also, mom, this is a great time to click off if you're thinking, if anyone knows my family, click all right now because this isn't the one to listen to see if you're in Zach's family. Yeah, just turn it off. Maybe put it on. You just play the whole thing. So I get the download. But yeah, yeah. Still play it. Yeah, but don't listen. Yeah, or just don't be a snitch. So, yeah, so yeah, threesomes are fun. I think it could really make or break a relationship, definitely. And I think for sure it is made our trust. Like, go through the roof, OK? And I'm a really insecure person and I have a lot of anxiety, but I feel like a lot of it around my relationship and with Steven has kind of just disappeared. Sure. And it's because I feel like every like I feel like humans aren't meant to just be with one person for their whole life. You can be in one relationship for the rest of your life. I believe that that's possible, but I feel like the the human desire to, like, want to do things and find other people attractive. I feel like that doesn't go away just because you're in a relationship. And that's what's hard, because I think that there are people who have relationship issues and a lot of them are, you know, did you look at her? Did you text her? Do you watch porn? Did you do this? You and there's no trust there, but like, we are animals. Yeah. So like, it's not normal. I don't think for us to be in a relationship and then suddenly no longer desire to be with anybody else ever again. And I also have struggled with like the monogamy thing because I feel like. You know, most people are not in a relationship with one person for their entire life. So not only is a sexual life, but like their adult life, right, like not everyone marries their high school or middle school sweetheart and then just is with that person forever. I mean, that's there's like cheating, yeah, infidelity and finding a person in this. And actually, it's funny that you bring it up because someone hadn't sent a post in on one of my Facebook groups and it was like that. They think that I would benefit from, like a polyamorous situation. Yeah. So I always look forward to hearing your stories because maybe it would work. Yeah. And like, I don't know if I would ever want to be polyamorous because I do at the end of the day, want to be in a relationship with only Steven like. But I guess there's like you're only in a relationship with him. But to some degree, it's polyamorous because you're you're you're including other people in certain aspects. Yeah. So I guess our relationship as a whole is monogamous, but then we have little moments of polyamory just to like, spice it up and it works. And I think it took a lot of the me wondering, like Stephen's probably going to like, find someone else attractive and then what if he cheats on me eventually? Blah, blah blah. So I feel like by us doing things together, it like takes that away because like, why would he feel the need to cheat? What was the conversation like? Like, who approached two about this? Because I think that for people who are listening to this, who have maybe explored it or thought about it, like, how do you even approach your partner about possibly being doing a threesome even? I don't really remember. I think we both well. So I'm sure like, as you could have guessed, like, I'm the more like assertive. Yeah. And like the more sexual ones compared to Steven. So I think I brought it up maybe as a joke. And then when he wasn't like against it, I was like, Well, we really are you like, would you ever want to do that? Like, I think I just set it pretty straight up. And he was like, Yeah, I'm open. But then that's saying it is one thing, but then actually taking the steps to include a third person, like, how did that go? Because I could tell you, yeah, my threesome story, but I'm going to let you tell yours first because you've had multiple. Yeah, we've had three. And you like, want it to be like a regular thing? Yeah, not too regular. No, not too bad. But yeah, but like periodically. Yeah. And I feel like we right now we're in a good place where it's like, it doesn't feel like it's too much, and we definitely don't feel like we need that. But it's just like when we're like bored or if we just like are like, just super comfortable or if it's like the weekend. We're like just all weekend long. Let's just call somebody really cool. Yeah. So Delta eight THC is the new cannabinoid that's sweeping the hemp and health and wellness market CBD, XCOM cells Delta eight products which feel just like cannabis. This is legal up her 2008 farm bill that Congress passed. There are vape products, actual flower bud gummies and even concentrates. They ship to thirty nine states, and you can use this code for 20 percent off your first order. The code famous orders will ship within 24 hours, and you can use my code for not only 20 percent off, but a free gram of dry bud with your order. Four letters c, b, d x dot.com do not driver operate machinery. When using these products, please be responsible for 80 percent off the site promo code famous. So what was the process like, so you have the conversation and he wasn't really against it and then did you, what was the cause? I feel like I remember what you told me, so I said, Well, would you? We don't go out so like, we would never meet anybody at a bar because like, I don't drink. Stephen barely drinks, right? I don't drink so and I just don't like going out to clubs or whatever. So we would never meet anybody in real life, right? So I suggested that we make a grinder account, which I'm very familiar with that from my past life. So I was a little iffy about downloading it also because with my insecurity, I would have never wanted Stephen to have to be the one with the app, right? Because it would make me think that he's probably on it, or we might find someone better than me. And that's just like my craziness. Like, I was like, Oh, I don't want you having the app. And he was like, Well, I don't care if you have it like, I trust you for having it, and you can find someone for us and let me know, like just show me the opposite. So he kind of gave you a little bit of control in that way. Yeah. And I think again, that comes down to the trust in the foundation of the relationship is like having the trust with your partner to do that and not use it for side situation. Exactly. And I think that not I don't think Stephen ever never. I don't think he ever didn't trust me. But this made him trust me so much more and that it made me trust him, that he trusted me so much. I love that. So it just like just even leading up to it, it made us so much closer before we even had our first threesome, right? So like that, like had a lot of positivity just talking about it. Is that so crazy? Because I feel like three threesomes and polyamory, and all of it is kind of just like such a taboo topic. It is. So it's crazy to think that like for something that is so taboo actually made you guys closer before you even did anything because there had to be some level of trust. Yeah. So I think just us having our boundaries set up, and at first I was really strict about like what I didn't want us to do with other people and what I would. I at first I didn't want us to, like, actually have sex with other people. We were more into like, I was like, You think you're comfortable talking about it until we start recording? You're like, Like what? Like, like what? So I think him and I were OK with, like oral sex with other people, and I wasn't okay with the sex part of it because I feel like I keep that for relationships. That is exactly what happened for my threesome. So it's crazy that you bring that up. It seems like a safe like boundary. Yeah, and I love the way that mine happened was very not like what yours happened. I was already in the relationship and my friend was like, I want to have sex with you guys. Oh, OK. And so one, I think there was some level of distrust there because I felt like you're my best friend. That's my boyfriend. Why do you want to have sex with my boyfriend? Yeah. So it made me feel like, was there sexual chemistry between y'all and you were just and she's like, Let's start drinking so we can have sex. And I was like, You, I don't want you having sex with him. Yeah. And then I turn around and she's having sex with her. So it was like distrust. Yeah, but for you, it was in that kind of ruined. Right? Yeah. I mean, it wasn't weird after anything but so. You kind of set the boundaries with him and you guys followed them. Yeah, we followed the boundaries and it was so we found someone on grinder and it was great like we loved it. But how did you did you like? I don't know how Grinder works. I've never been on any type of dating app. How does it work? Where do you like message someone and you're like, Hey, I'm looking, we're looking for a third party. So our profile had a picture of both of us and it said, like, we're looking for like fun only we don't want to like we're not looking to add a third to our relationship, right? And it's you can kind of message anyone you want. It's not like Tinder. You have to like, swipe that they're not with you. You can just message anyone. So we just message a few people we thought were attractive. And then a few people message us, and then we found someone that we really liked and that we thought would be a good match. And he was totally fine with our boundaries. We told him before we even met him like, Listen, this is what we want to do. We don't want it to go any further than that. And he was like, That's fine. I'm comfortable with that. And it just was as simple as that. Yeah, it was probably like 20 minutes. Like, it was pretty quick. A threesome or the conversation. A threesome? Interesting. It was, well, guys are fast. So it was it was. It was quick. And then he left, and then Steven and I had our own moment, so it was like it was great. Afterwards, the next day I started like, I think the next day we were both so excited about it, right? And Steven talked about it a little too much that it made me start getting insecure. And I was like, I think he liked it too much. Like, I think he liked it a little too much. It made me really freak out, and I think maybe we made the wrong decision. But then we both talked about it a little bit more and we're like, You know what? We're both equally excited about it. Like, it was our first time we can talk about it as much as we want, right? So that was, I guess, I don't even know when that was. That was maybe before the holidays. So it was a while ago. So looking back on it like it just it was a freak out in the moment, but they were so cool and like actually spicing things up so I can understand like why it would be like an exciting moment and like, talk about it, even if one of you did talk about it more than the other. I mean, it's so new. Yeah. So then you guys, how long between the first one and the second one? And would you ever sleep with the same have the same one, the same person participate in the threesome? Yes, you would. Yeah. If we if we had a good match with the with someone, we would definitely do it again. OK, we almost did it a second time with the first guy and then but he was from out of town. OK, so it just never worked out again that he was back where we lived. OK, our second threesome wasn't a good one. Oh no. It was with someone that I used to hook up with in my single life, which I wasn't. I wouldn't be OK with having a threesome with someone from and sparsely. But Stephen didn't care. OK. So again, we had that conversation. I feel like that's also something you have to be conscientious of. Yeah, like because I know I wouldn't be OK with that. But if he was, then yeah, Steven was OK with that. I think it was a little too weird for the the person participating. OK, to then have two people with him instead of just me? OK. Because this is something that I know you are really fascinated with. But in the gay world, there's a lot of quote straight people that have that are typically only with women in their life, but they still have. So they identified to the world as straight. But I feel like they have some underlying gay tendencies that they just want to explore. OK, so so maybe they either they actually are gay and they don't want to come out or they don't know, and they're trying to figure it out. Yeah. And I think it's just like a figuring out process to the outside world is straight. Yes. Got it. And I used to hook up with him for a while, like a long time ago, but I haven't seen him in two years since I've been with Steven, right? And then but he he periodically hit me up and was like, Hey, like, let's meet up. And I was like, I can't have a boyfriend, right? Love that. So then he hit me up again and I was like, Well, actually, I'm like, I still have a boyfriend. But now we were open. Yeah, we're open. So he came over. It was a little weird. I told him to leave. What's that like? Because this goes for a straight, gay, lesbian, whatever type of relationship you're in, I'll have definitely 1000 percent. But in situations where I don't feel comfortable, but I don't want, I'm a people pleaser, not in a sexual way, but I'm a people pleaser. I don't like confrontation. Yeah. Very popular belief. And I don't like letting people know. Like, not that. I don't like letting people know. I don't know how to let people know in a way that doesn't make them mad at me for being uncomfortable. So I have definitely been in situations where I've done things I didn't feel comfortable doing because I didn't know how to say no. So how did you ask him to leave like it was? Is during sex, before sex, after sex lies during and it was just not it, Steven and I kept making eye contact and we just knew we weren't feeling it, OK? It wasn't like a pleasant experience. So I think when you're bringing it, it just wasn't. It wasn't giving what it needed to go, Okay, got it, got. So I think if you're bringing someone into your home, you have to be in control for sure. As like if a guest came into your house and they were acting like an a*****e, you would have to be like, Listen, you're going to go. I'm never like, Well, like I have literally. And I definitely been in that situation outside of like a very toxic relationship, like someone I was dating. I have never actually told anyone to leave. I've had people at my house that are acting a fool, and I'm like, I just really need you to go like, I've never been able to do it. So you're in the middle of a sexual experience and you're like, Actually, I'm not feeling this, you need to go. I said, I think I remember exactly. I said, I think we're good. And he went, What? And I was like, I think we're good. I think you can go. And he was like, Oh, like, you're done. I'm like, Yeah, we're we're done. And it was a little awkward for I know Steven would never say that, and I think that was me protecting him because I know Steven would have just kept going, even though he didn't want to write. So I probably if I was by myself, I probably would have kept going too. But I think I was what made me like brave, I guess to just leave him was for Steven because I knew he wasn't enjoying it, OK? So I put a stop to it like I didn't even think twice. I was like, I think we're good. You can go. And it's like, OK, well, maybe maybe two where I was like, Probably not. Probably not. Probably not. I never again. Yeah. So I walked him, and he's never reached out again. No. OK. And then you've had a third one. Yeah, this past weekend, actually. OK, let's. I didn't want to. Zach tried telling me this while we were doing makeup, and I was like, I need you to. Not because I need to hear about this on the podcast and I'm ready for this. So this one was probably, well, it definitely was our favourite one. I mean, we don't have many to compare it to. But, but so far, it's your favourite. Yeah, OK. So it was also someone from my past, but I've never hooked up. I've never done anything with them. You knew him. Yeah, I was obsessed with them in a healthy way. Like I had a crush on him in high school. He was like he was two years older than me. He was a jock, played sports, and I just loved him. Yeah, I knew I knew him for years after high school and it was he was always out of the closet or no, no, he was. No. He's been straight up. Yeah, has a child. And I've never I probably haven't even said a word to him in my life. But like from afar, yes, I'm like, I'm friends with him on Facebook, like we follow each other, but we've never talked. OK, so a couple of months ago, this will probably like, I don't think he'll ever, ever listen to this podcast. But in the event this this like next thing, will definitely give it away that it was him. But he posted something that he needed a haircut and someone attacked me for, like cutting his hair. And I messaged him and I said, Hey, guys, get free haircuts. And and he was like, Oh s**t, really? And I was like, Yeah, and he was like, OK, well, I guess I gotta pay then because I'm ugly or something. And I was like, Oh, absolutely not. And then I was. And then he was like, Oh, really? And how we time out, time out, time out, I need to know, do you know when you see a man who is straight to the world? Do you know? No, no. I was just being funny and flirty. Yeah, I was just being like a w***e. Like, I was just like, I'm like, I'm fully doing that, knowing that he could have very well said. Like, f**k off. Yeah, leave me alone. I'm straight. But I was just like being I was saying it to be kind of funny. Right, right, right. And like, Stephen didn't necessarily like, know that I said that. But like, he just knows that's my sense of humor. And I would say that to anybody, right? So it's like, I don't know if you've ever met Becky. No. Oh, OK. So I, we grew apart, but she was very similar to that like her and her girlfriend at the time, where I think they might be engaged now or married, I'm not sure there was just always that level of trust. But like by nature, Becky was like a flirty person. You know, I mean, I feel like that's also like, yeah, as long as I've known you, that's how you felt. Yeah, I've been in therapy for two and a half years, and I absolutely love it. Whether you're struggling with grief, relationships or stress or having trouble sleeping or meeting goals, online therapy might be for you. I do this twice a week now. I just once a week was not enough. But her health is a secure online therapy that offered. Video phone and even live chat sessions with a licensed professional therapist, better help will assess your needs and match you with your own accredited therapist. And you can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours. You don't have to sit in an uncomfortable waiting room, and therapists have a broad range of expertise which may not be available in your area. The service is available for clients worldwide, which is so important, and you can log into your account any time and send a message to your therapist. You'll get a timely and thought out response, plus you can schedule weekly video or phone sessions. BetterHelp is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches. They make it easy and free to change your therapist if needed. It's more affordable than traditional offline therapy and financial aid is available, so do not let that stop you. Visit BetterHelp dot com, slash Beverly and join over the two million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional. In fact, so many people have been using better health that they are recruiting additional therapists in all 50 states. Barely Famous Podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp, and our listeners get 10 percent off their first month of online therapy at BetterHelp.com/ barely. That's better. DLP.com/ barely. So I definitely like I think flirting is like part of my sense of humor, and I just use it as a joke. And then if their response is serious, then I'm like, OK, I wasn't joking then. So it's like, there's always some truth to a joke. Yes, exactly. So when he was like, Oh, really? I was like, Yeah, and you're like, Oh, OK. And then he gave me a Snapchat, and then I knew it was where I was going from there. Yeah. So like, one thing led to another, he said that he's never been with the guy before, but he'd be down. And I said, OK, well, I actually have a boyfriend and like, we're open, we're open. Would you be OK with that? And he said, even better. And I was like, Oh, OK. Do you think that a lot of them are curious and they will never admit it? I don't know if I'd say a lot, but I think it's more common than people think. Yeah, and I think it's something that over time will become more and more normal or not normal, but more wise. Yeah, for sure. I think it will be more normalized over time because I think it is normal for everyone to find the same sex somewhat attractive or even just to have a thought in the back of your head. Yeah. Even if you don't act on it, I think like most people have something in the back of their head that is so interesting because I feel like there's such a double standard between men and women, like it is so much more normalized for women to have that curiosity. But it's not. It's there's such a stigma or like like, it's a taboo thing for men to do. Yeah. Now, before you continue your your story. Do you think a man who is curious and wants to explore that option is necessarily gay? And do you think that men who have explored it, like do you think they can still be straight? If, yeah, I think if they explored, if they tried it and they they weren't into it, then they could very well say, like that wasn't for me. I'm sticking with women. They can very much be straight after that, OK? Because I also think there is like. I don't want to call it a stigma, because I don't know if that's the right word, but if a man has been with a man, they're just gay. Yeah, I don't I don't think that's a thing because I think there's like a billion things in between gay and straight, right? And there's also just like a what if they were just curious? Right. And and then they liked it just a little bit. And then I don't think that makes them gay because then they can still very much be attracted to a woman, right? So they could just be open minded or they could be bisexual, pansexual. What actually fluid? Yeah, there's like a million things. So I think I think even people that just like think about it when they're drunk and then are not necessarily gay. Yeah, that doesn't mean they're gay. That just means they're like curious and curiosities come out when maybe you're more drunk or when you're gay, whatever. Sure. So, yeah, he he came over. Did you cut his hair? No. Oh hi. I said, I'm off today on Sunday. Today you're getting off. Yeah, sort of. No, no haircutting was involved, right? And. Yeah, and it was great. Did he also feel the same way? Yeah, OK. Was he in a relationship with his child's mother? Not to my knowledge. OK, so. OK. Yeah. So what do you do with that? Have another one or. Yeah. He said he he messaged just afterwards and said, like, Well, that was great. Like, love to do that again. Oh, and and I was like, Yeah, let's do it. And how did Steven feel? Steven was like, That was great. Like, we both verbally said like that. That was that was that was really all typical, Steven. I love it. No, it was fun. OK. So where do you go from here? You just once a month, every two weeks something. It's like we don't have a sketchbook. So that would be kind of amazing if yeah, that would be really fun. It's like the first of every month we do three things. Yeah, oh, that's why it's coming up. No, we just do it whenever, like, we're like, we don't even think about it, really. If someone messages us and it's like, Hey, mom, I'm like, Are you down? And sometimes even like, No, OK, so then we're like, OK, OK, we're not going to. Yeah. And you never wanted to, like, have sex with these people without Steven. No. That is so like the trust is so crazy to me because I don't think that I've ever been. There's one person that I think I could literally trust with everything, but I don't think we would ever like have a threesome. Like, I don't think he would have ever considered. Yeah, I mean, some people, it totally breaks up the relationship and it makes it worse. And then some people, I think it really does wonders and makes you guys close. And I think that just is what happened with Stephen and I. So what is can you tell me you're crazy? First of all, we even get upset if you will talk to me about other sex stories. No, I already asked him if he would care, and he doesn't. Some of them are so crazy that it's like a party story. And it's like if we're ever together with friends like people like, Oh my god, tell that story. Like, It's so funny. Well, I need, first of all, I need you to tell the kidnapping story. Yeah, so Zach was kidnapped. I also need you to tell the story about the CEO of something. Yeah, it may or may not rhyme with No, no, no, I won't. I won't. OK, can you please tell the listeners you're kidnapping story? Yeah. So it also stemmed from Grindr. I was 18. No, I think I was 19 when it happened, and I was meeting up with someone on a first date and we were we were talking for a few weeks. I never FaceTimed him or called in. I guess I never thought to even do that. And he told me to come meet him at his apartment. He said he didn't drive. So I went to I drove over to pick him up, and he said, Just come in and I'm finishing getting ready, then we can go out to dinner. And I said, OK, that's fine. Like it was. It just seemed pretty chill. Like it didn't seem weird. No, not at all. I feel like things. Sometimes in the moment you're just like, OK, yeah, like when you look back, you're like, Oh, I probably hearing it now. People are hugging me like, you idiot. Like, you know, because I mean, I've had tons of people. Well, maybe not people. I don't know. But yeah, I do that with my friends. But like my friend, like, Hey, I'm getting ready in the shower. Leave the door unlocked. Yeah. And it could just be like a girlfriend or whatever like. So I don't that's not weird to me, but like, maybe someone you don't know, I guess. But yeah, if you talk to them for weeks, it's not like you just never. Not that I'm making excuses, but I am. But yeah, it seemed normal and I didn't think twice about it. I mean, you were young, so I didn't tell you at the time my mom wasn't super OK with me being gay, so I didn't. When did you tell your mom? I told her. I think my freshman year of high school was like 14. Yeah, 14 years old. I guess, however old you are around that. So I told her around that she wasn't she wasn't super okay with it. We, we butt heads with it for years and like now, we're great. So at the time, I just never told her when I would go on a date with a guy or meet up with the guy. I would just say, I'm going with my friends. OK, so that's all she knew I was leaving. My best friend lived with me at the time, and she was saying, like, I don't know, lesbian sketch. You shouldn't meet up with someone for the first time at night. And it was like evening dinner time, right? And I was like, Whatever, it's fine. I'm like, You have my location on. It's fine, right? So my mom thought I was going out with one of my other my girlfriends. And so I went over to the guy's house. It was in Baltimore City and it was only 20 minutes away from me at the time. So I parked my car, walked over to the building, and this apartment complex was kind of set up where like there was entrances on the back of the building and entrances on the front of the building. And he said it was like letter entrances or something. So the sea entrance was on the back. So I walked around the back and some guy was coming out of that building with his hood on and past me and said, like, sup, Etsy, anything you know? And I was like, whatever. And then I just I literally said nothing. I just ignored him and walked past him. And then he came around me and put a gun to my head. And then someone came out of the bushes, another person. So it was like a setup. They knew I was going to be walking around the corner and they both grabbed me and they said, Pull out your phone and go to the settings, go to the iPhone settings and shut your phone off. So like if you restore it, like turns your location off. So all my friends have my location, how to restore the phone or another story, if you like, reset it. That's what I meant to say. So reset the whole phone. He went. He knew how to do it. Like he said, Put your Apple ID password in and he, like, typed it in and then it reset my phone to erased everything. So then all my friends at the same time got the notification that I stopped sharing my location with them. So they all knew something was wrong because thank f**king God. Yeah. So then but then they probably would have had the last location because I think it does have. I think so, but it didn't get to that point because it happened really fast. So my friend who was living with with me at the time, that was already really not really sure about it. She wasn't sure about it. When she saw that she was like, Oh my God, and her stomach sank. And she's like, Why did he stop saying? Something else. So they put me in my car in the backseat of my car and they they couldn't figure out how to put my car in reverse like these shifts? No, it was a wreck. It was a Honda Civic. There was a regular car. They could not figure they didn't drive like they were. So they were way taller than me. But I came to find out they were younger than me. And so I thought these were like 30 year old men. But they were like 18 years old and I was like 19 at the time. OK, so they couldn't. I guess they never drove before. So they were like f**king my car up as they were driving around the way you do it. Do you have tape on your mouth like what was going on? One person was in the backseat with me, with the gun to my head, and then the other person was driving without anything. No, and I had no phone because they reset it and took it and they took it. Yeah, they took it because they were going to sell it. It was an iPhone. So then they had my wallet with and my car. So I'm like, I'm not about to jump out of a moving car and possibly get shot while doing it. Yeah, like, I'm not doing that. So I, as you can probably guess, I'm just so calm and I just sat there and didn't say a word. And they were like, they were just asking me all these crazy questions like, What bank do you have like? Like, how much money is in your bank, like blah blah blah? And I was like, I literally have a thousand dollars like that. You can have it. Yeah, I'm like, I don't have much money. You can have this 2004 piece of s**t car. But like I worked, I worked at McDonald's, as did you. Yes, that was my favorite job. My first and favorite. Yeah, like and I worked at McDonald's for three years and bought that car all by myself. Like, that was my first car. I was so proud of it. Yeah. And at this time, I just got hired at Sephora, and this is like my first couple of months working at Sephora. And the only thing I was thinking of, I'm like, I have to work in the morning at this. I my new dream job and I'm like, If something happens like, I'm going to ruin my job. Like, what if they keep me past my ship? I could lose my job. Like, that's the whole thing. I was thinking, Are you kidding me? Yeah, like that. I was because you were so excited about your job, your new job. So that's what I was focusing on the whole time. I'm like, I need to get out of here today because far less of them keeping you are not keeping you. That should not have been like, I'm literally sitting here thinking about how much therapy did you go to after this happened? And that's why I'm f**ked up. I just talk about like, I talk to my friends a lot about it and like my family, make jokes about your trauma and I make jokes about it. But I think it's still there for sure. Now they have your God, they have you a gun to your head. They're in your car, they're f**king it up. Are they driving it at this? Yeah, it's they're driving it. They went to three different gas stations, Rob one. The person that was driving my car robbed the gas station and they would use my my debit card at ATMs because at the time, I don't know if it's the same thing, but at the time it wouldn't recognize your limit of how much you can take out at gas station ATMs, so you could just take out as much as you wanted. Got it. So they took out, Oh, there's like a limit. Yeah, so they took out more than what I had. Like overdraft? Yeah, they overdraft in my account and they they would rob the gas station for money, and they did it to three different gas stations. The third one wouldn't give them money, so they sold Gatorade and chips and brought it back to the car and the one person stayed in the car with me the whole time. So I was in the car watching it happen and they put your car in my car as the getaway car. And then I'm just thinking, I'm like, Oh my God, like now, like my, you're going to be the suspect. Yeah. So it was it was just like one thing after another. Eventually, I had no idea where we were up until, like the third gas station. I kind of knew I'm like, OK, I know what road we're on. And I was just like looking around trying to, like, get different like landmarks in case I needed to walk somewhere and get help. And then once we got to the third one, I really had no idea where we were. So then he asked again what my bank was, and I said, It's it's M. A. Bank. It's there's not any around here. And it was like, Oh, where's the closest one? So I had to look it up, and I told them there was one on whatever road and I knew it was closer to where I lived. So I got him to drive like 15 minutes closer to my house so you could know where you are. Yeah. So and he was just dumb and didn't think that he didn't understand. Empty Bank is a major bank on the East Coast. Yeah. So he drove to the one I told until we got out and they all, both of them walked up to the ATM with me, with a gun to my head and the cameras on me. And then in that moment I realized I'm like, They're not going to kill me now because I because they're doing this in front of an ATM, I feel like they're too stupid. Like they're so stupid. They don't know that there's cameras all over this bank, and now they're doing this at an ATM. So bringing you with them with a gun to your. Yeah. So when we were sitting there, I instantly, like, got almost a sense of relief. And I put in my thing and it said that it was overdraft. It like there was. There was nothing. In it. So I like see I told you, I have no money and they're like, OK, go what? And we were just saying I was like, OK. And he was like, Go, go, where where's your car? They had it so that we were just standing at the ATM and I just walked away and I didn't want to run and then then like, shoot me in the back or something. So I just slowly walked away until I turned the corner. And then I heard them pull out of the gas or pull out of the bank parking lot in your car and drive the other way. And then I ran to Taco Bell, which was across the street, and I asked to use their phone and I called my mom first and said, what? And said, someone stole my car. I'm at Taco Bell. You need to come pick me up. And she flipped out. And then so this all happened within an hour. It's like only an hour passed from when they shut my phone off. OK? And so like I was with them for like an hour, and then it felt like all night long. But it was only an hour that that's how you did not go to work the next day. No, I didn't go to work the next day. So far I was like, OK, you don't have to come in. You got robbed at gunpoint. I called them the first thing in the morning and I was like, Hi, this happened. I might be a little late. And they're like, Are you insane? You're not coming way. No. Yeah, we f**king up people's makeup. And I just like, knock up your head on straight. Like, I feel like you mean like a ton of time off. After that, I was like, I just want you to think I'm pulling out and they're like, No, no, no, no, no. Like, don't come in, like, take as much time as you need. And so we had that night I had to go to or the police came to Taco Bell and they shut Taco Bell down and the FBI came shut. The f**k up and why? First of all, I believe the FBI is so selective. Like, you never know when they're going to get involved. When you don't like who calls them like the local police are like, this is a case where the FBI, once I gave them a little bit more information, they were like, This has happened to like six other people in the area by the same people, but it sounds like it's the same people. So that's when the FBI came. Got it. So I had to go to two different police stations. I had to go to the Baltimore County Police Station in the Baltimore City Police Station, and they hacked into my craindre account, which was so much fun with explaining with my mom and explaining to the FBI agents, Look, grinder was and they linked. So with the app, once you're logged out of it, it deletes all of your messages and all of your chats. That's kind of nice. Yeah, but also not for something like this, so they could not access it. They couldn't figure out who the person was, and they're like, How do you look them up? I'm like, You can't look right now. Your phone is completely, yeah, and I got no OK. I had his number, but it wasn't a set of numbers, so they were able to. And since they erased everything, it didn't back up. So they were able to, like, figure out his numbers somehow. But it was from a text app. So he was texting you from a text app the whole time instead of like what would come through like a phone records situation. So they found the number, they couldn't link it to anything. But then they they contacted the bank and got the photos from the young. And then, yeah, and I was like, Yes, I have PTSD a little bit. Well, I I still have small moments of PTSD. If people want really close behind me and I hear a sound of like people like just really close behind me, it freaks me out for a quick minute because it's like the sound of someone running up behind me. It still freaks me out. If someone's walking really close to me, I have to, like, stop and let them go around. So that's the only thing that really freaks me out now. But it has changed my whole life in how you interact with people. Yeah, I I will never meet someone at a stranger at night from by yourself, by myself. And it's like even when, like when Steven and I have our little threesomes, even if it's someone I know. I take screenshots of who were meeting and I send them to my best friend and I say, This person's coming over tonight. I'll text you when they leave. OK, so then at least someone knows exactly who's going to be there. OK? Because like, that was something I didn't do that could have helped. Right? So I do you ever get your car back? They. So a week went by and no one could find my car. So the insurance claimed it totaled or lost just a total loss. So I they gave me a check for it. But then they found it burned in an alley. Shut the f**k up. It didn't look like I did. I couldn't see the listeners feeling there's no way this happened. Yeah. Like, it just feels like so not real. And it happened to so many people that but only a few people notified the authorities and it was on ABC News. They didn't use anyone's photos because of the situation. With it being grinder, they didn't want to out anybody. So it was, but it was on the news and the people's mug shots were on the news and the pics, and then I told them exactly what gas stations we went to. So they were able to like link all of that to them also. So they did get caught finally. So A. Apparently, the group of guys was it was a group of three, the third person was never there in my situation. The person that was driving my car turned himself in because his photo was everywhere. He turned himself in the third person who wasn't there for mine, but his photos were up for the other people. He got caught it from the photos and the person that was in the back seat with me, with the gun, who I believe was the one messaging me the whole time. He still has never been caught. And the other two didn't snitch on him. No. And since I refused to testify in court because I worked in a mall that was like, not it. It wasn't in the best, best area. And I just I work in a mall. I see a lot of people, their friends, to come out. Exactly. I did not want to refresh their memory of what I looked like, and I didn't want all of their friends and family in court to see what I looked like also. And then then come after me for putting locking up their their brother, their cousin or whoever it is. So I refused to testify in court and they were like this. This will ruin the case. Like if you don't and I was like, I'm sorry, I'm not. I'm not. That's doing things to think about. I had not completely like that, but in I think I was in seventh grade or eighth grade. I can't remember which one this guy wanted to be with me, and I was like my daughter in middle school. And I said something to him like, f**k off or f**k yourself or something like that. And he brought a ten and a half inch butcher knife to school and went into the bathroom. And thankfully there was two boys in there and he was like, I'm going to go kill, kill. Oh my God. They I went to court. I didn't have to testify. At the time, I was so upset and so nervous, like I just didn't know like how to handle it, but like looking back, I wish that I like if they needed me, I would have, you know, kind of thing because but it's it's terrifying to think. I don't think I ever thought about the family members coming after me. But like now, that's what I would think about. Yeah, like back then, if they would have had me get up on the stand, I would have. But. Now you have to think about other people coming after you because you. Right. So I just never did anything about it. And then I told myself that I would never go on that app ever again. But I think a week went by and I made I downloaded the app again and I made my profile and my my bio on the app was my entire story of what happened to me. And I just said, like everyone, be careful in this app. This is what happened to me last week, and I had, like dozens and dozens of people say, like that happened to me, and I never contacted the police because I'm not out of the closet. And what am I going to tell people like? How would they explain? Yeah. So no, I have killed dozens of people and it was just crazy that all of that your nipples. I have chills. Like, that's so crazy. I know. And it just broke my heart that like, I imagine something like that happening to you and you're like, Hell, yeah, and you just got robbed and you couldn't tell people because they didn't know you were on a gay app. Like, that's crazy. And I like that. I was thinking, like, I felt so like, that was the worst thing that's ever happened to me in my life. But I was able to tell people about it. I was able to get them, some of them arrested and like, I still felt horrible. But imagine like having I have a new claim and tell people. So it was it was a crazy situation that like, obviously, I'll never forget, never forget that it. It's changed a lot in me, and I think that I was super spontaneous when I was younger and I would never turn down a fun time ever. But that got me into a lot of trouble. So now I'm like, I always think about like, what could go wrong? Who's going to be there, right? Like, what time is this going to be over? Do we have like a safe ride home, right? Like, so I'm kind of like the mom of the group that just like I have to figure everything out. That's a good thing. Or I'm super anxious the whole time. No, I nothing like that has ever happened to me, and I also do the same. Like, I'm like, This is where I'm going. This is who I'm with. I'm driving or they're driving or whatever. How f**king scary. How did you not go to therapy after that? I don't. I honestly don't know. It wasn't a thing, and I've tried therapy in the past for other things, and I've never found a click right. But I have a good support system of friends and family that, like I did talk to about it. Right? And there's not much you can. It happened like, and what do you just try to avoid it? There's not really anything to talk about. I don't. I feel like you've told me the story before, but I don't remember, although I have a horrible memory. So but I only told you like the parts of like the important parts. Oh my god. And now you just make jokes about it because, you know, like a dark sense of humor. Yeah. That's so wild. But you've met good people and year too. Yeah. So it's like, I mean, nowadays that that was a long time ago, and I think it was a little bit more sketchy back then. It's still probably sketchy depending on where you are. That's what gives dating apps and things like that. A bad rap now is from where they started and things like that happening. And I still don't. It's obviously not the app's fault. It's just the users fault. Right? And like, I met Stephen on Tinder. Oh, OK. And so I give dating apps a lot of credit. Do you think that Grindr is more for like hookups and Tinder? Yeah, is for like relationships? Yeah. OK, cool. I've never been on either. But you know, yeah, in the event I ever, I'm just going to say. OK, so where did you meet this CEO? Oh, whatever. Please tell me where you grinder this. Have you ever had a sugar daddy? Yeah. OK, listen. So this podcast was sponsored by Green Tea. Can we get a sponsor then on his budget? So he messaged me he was older, and I think at the time he was maybe forty eight and I was twenty. So this was a year after my my crazy experience experience. So I was twenty still up to four and he messaged me and he was like, Hey, are you in the older men? And again, it's my sense of humor to say whatever I want as a joke, but kind of not a joke. And I said only for money. And that was my response to thinking he'd be like, Oh, whatever by. But he said, Money's no, no problem here. Oh, and I was like periods. I was like, Let's go. You're like, Oh yeah, oh my God, I should. Maybe I should do that just for like, I have my own money. But like, yeah, you're four. Exactly. And it's like, that's my sense of humor that was like something funny. A funny response, right? But it's like, obviously, there's truth in it because like, I was going to tell you not to get any money, right? So he was like, Oh, money's no issue here. And I was like, OK, well, when like, when you wanna meet up and it's like, I wanted your dinner, I was like, OK, let's go. So he took me out to dinner and he was really nice, told me that he had two kids and he was technically married, but separating it through the process of separating his wife. OK. And I was like, Well, that's fine, OK? And so you have been with men that have children. So now you've told me about two different men that have had children, and I literally won't even talk to someone. A man that has children? Yeah. How interesting. OK? Keep going. Well, I can have my own kids. So I mean, I just could. You couldn't birth them. No one kids. Yeah, eventually you do. Yeah. Oh, OK. Because like, I had a really bad relationship with my dad, so I always wanted to be a good dad, OK to like, break the cycle. I love that. So I've always wanted to have kids. Oh, good. But kids, yeah, we agreed that we would want to do it in our thirties. OK. Because it's like we don't. It doesn't matter how old we are because like, we're not birthing it. So there's not going to be any issues if we wait into our 50 or something. So I think we want to wait until we're like in our thirties or whatever so we can enjoy our life. No, I I yeah, I always get because I had kids really young and then I got married really young. And I hate as much as I am happy for other couples gay, straight, whatever when they have kids, really young. I'm like, Just live your life first. Like, just like I shouldn't judge, but I'm like, I've been there. I've done it. Go travel, be with your partner. Just you guys. Because the amount of time that you have to do things like that after you have kids is so slim. Yeah. Like, go live your life and then worry about having kids, you know? Yeah. So you met this guy who tells you he takes you to dinner. You have, he tells you he has two kids. He's getting separated and you were like, What? You were like? Well, I didn't really care. I was like, because you were like, This is just for hooking. Yeah, I was like, whatever, whatever. And so then nothing happened. We left and I was that. He was like, I want to take you out again. And I was like, OK, so took me out. And then I was like, So when is this money coming in because of that? Yeah, like in a joke in like a joking way. Then he started understanding my sense of humor. So I was like, So you said money was no, no, no object. So where is it? And he's like, Oh, you don't look back, OK? And then he started really liking my personality and my sense of humor, which is so funny and I love it. And it's like, I'm 20 years old and you're 48. Like, he was like, literally like, he's old enough to be my parent, right? And he was like getting along with me. So like we both, I was like, OK, I'm I'm mature for my age, and maybe he's a little too immature for his age, but we just got along so well. And I like eventually, I, you know, he didn't give me money in that moment. We were just like joking about it. And then I never asked for it ever again. And then he just would take us out on really nice dates and really nice dinners. And then he would like you like dressing up for these dinners? No, I mean, no, I didn't care. But he was wearing like a suit because he was getting off work and he his office was a couple of blocks away from the mall that I worked at. So he would come. He would like, take a break, come in and visit me in Sephora, shop and buy things. All my coworkers loved him because did they know you were hooking up? Yes, they knew. And you didn't know. He didn't know. No, I said, my friends don't know. Like, don't worry. Like, you don't have to feel weird coming in. My coworkers don't know. So they were all just nice to him because he would. Do they make commission, not support? No. But we we loved when people would buy from us because it made the store kind of be like jobs that you sold all that. But we didn't get commission. But like, he would buy multiple fragrances off the wall and then he would get like a women's figure. And I'm like, what? Who is that going to? Yeah. So then I was like, So you still buy your wife fragrance? He's like, Well, she's still my best friend. Like, I still buy her stuff. It doesn't. So is this point at this point? Are you thinking he's like exploring? He's curious or he's gay and he's married and he doesn't know what to do about? So then I started the question. I was like, Well, so are you guys getting separated because you're gay? And he's like, Yeah, I told her I was gay. She told her, told me, we want to get separated, but do it really slowly for the kids because we don't want them to feel like there's a huge change. So we're doing it really slow. And I was like, Okay, got it. So to my knowledge, there was no big secret that he was gay. Got it. So we were talking for maybe like five months, and at that point we were kind of calling each other boyfriends and the guys having sex. Yeah. And at his house where his wife lived. Yeah, he would send her on vacations and tell me that she was out of town. But then come to find out he was sending her like, Oh, here you need, you need a break. Go, go, go to Mexico, go to California, go here and you just fire somewhere and like, have the kids nanny, take care of them and we would go out to dinner. And then by the time we came home, the kids were put to sleep by the nanny so we would never see them. You understand the stories that you're telling me right now on this podcast seem like, OK, we went from one extreme to the next. There's no way all of this happened to one person like you understand, and I'm only 25. Like, You understand how important this is. Yeah. Well, I left my phone away. Yeah. So five months and you guys are having sex. He's shopping with you. You're going out to dinners. You know the situation or you think you know the situation. So then what? So he he does start giving me like extravagant gifts and money, and he's just being really supportive of me. And at the time, I was opening a makeup studio and I was doing that with my own money. But he was helping. He was giving me money towards it to help renovate and to help furnish it and help out with it. And it was mainly my money because I signed everything really without him knowing. And just kind of told him, like, Yeah, this is happening. And it was like kind of on the same street as his office building. So it just I didn't do that in a crazy way. Just happened that there was an availability. Were you like in love with him or no? No. I wasn't in love with him, but I think I was very naive and believed the bulls**t he told me. We were young. Yeah, I was 20 and he he just spewed all of this bulls**t on me and I believed every word, he said. And I was like, Oh my God. And he was like, You know, after all this, I could definitely after my my, my divorce goes through, I could definitely see us being a thing in the real and in a real relationship. And like, I could see us living together at some point and it believed I believed him. And I was like, Wow, I would love that too. Obviously, that would help me financially, and that would be great. So I just I started thinking of our future and I was like, Wow, that sounds great. And then I get a text from his phone on Christmas Eve and it said, This is my ex wife. And you need to stop messaging my husband, you're ruining our family. And I was like, Oh, my God, did she know that you were Zach? No, she thought you were a woman. She thought I was a girl. I guess I was saved in this phone as a girl name or something. And she was like, You're you're a tramp, which I guess is something you don't call a guy. So you're a tramp. You're a w***e. Beauvoir says she, I guess, thought I was a girl at that point. So I was like, I responded back and I said, like, I can't. It's not my fault. Your husband is gay. And she was like, What do you mean? And then she responded back and said, I found all your photos is this exact and said that, yeah, she's like, I thought, I'm finding all of the photos, is this? And I said, yes. And then I never heard anything for the rest of the pictures and stuff together. Yeah, we had we had like selfies together. We would take pictures together like, I guess he was sending me nudes and like I was sending photos back, and I guess he was saving them all in like a separate folder or something, and he had multiple phones. So I think the phone that he was using to text me was his work phone. And like now, looking back on it, they were on a vacation, a family vacation for Christmas, and she was probably like, Why would he bring his work phone on vacation? So I think that's why she looked at it. And then he messaged me a couple of days after Christmas and was like, I am so sorry. My wife found out everything. This has to be done and I will. I'll be back home after nine years and we can meet up and I'll explain everything to you. And did you meet up with him? Yeah, I met up with you. So devastated or I was pissed. You were upset because you yeah, everything you said. You thought he knew she knew. You thought that they were getting separated or divorced based on, you know, his situation. And now you're upset and like, Were you sick to your stomach? Because I know, yes, I have found out that people cheated or lied to you. I was just like, it was that feeling like I felt like I was broken up with and I felt like I was cheated on, right? But it was like such a short relationship. But I think just so like when someone manipulates you, you are more invested in it. Like, he manipulated me into believing him so much and he smooth talked everything that I thought that this was going somewhere. Well, revenue for me. I'm not investing like my time and money into people that I don't want to be with. So like, he is spending money on you and I know that he said that money is no object with extravagant gifts coming to visit you at work, investing into your makeup stuff, telling you that he could see a future with you. That's manipulation. Yeah, and the whole thing that they were getting a separate they were separating because of his sexuality and that never existed. Like they were very much married. They were never getting separate. She never knew he, let alone his OK like that, was all made up. And so when we met up, I was pissed and I did my full face be. I looked good. I was like, I got lashes on contacts and everything, and I was like, I'm going to look so good and piss him off. And so I was a b***h. I had sunglasses on at the table. I was pissed and he told me everything like, Listen, I lied. She has no idea. Well, now she does. She basically told me I can choose between going and living my my true life as a gay man. But if I do that, she will never let me see my kids again. So obviously, I chose that because my kids are my whole life, so I'm never going to choose anyone over them. So unfortunately, I'm going to have to end this and I can never see you ever again. And I was like, OK, I never argue with that. Obviously, you have to pick your kids. So it upsets me that now you have to live a lie for the rest of your life. It's hard to hear that because I mean, obviously, we all say things were more upset and were married. She would have gotten over it and he could have just picked his true, authentic self, and he still would have been able to see his kids, especially because he was the CEO of a major. But I don't know if if that was a lie because like, that's her bag. Like she like, if he left, she'd have to work or something like, Oh, got it? Like, she couldn't just let him divorce her, right? I mean, I'm sure she would get some, but she was the stay at home mom living the life, so he was going to have to support her lifestyle and everything. Yeah. On top of fighting for his kids. Yeah. So he ends up with the wife. Yeah. Have you did you ever talk to him again after that? No. See, I don't think I could do that. I've come across, so I'm I'm blocked by him and his wife on social media. But to this day, I mean, I can't really check, but I've had a couple. I think maybe a year ago, I had one of my friends look up his wife to see if they were still together. And they are. They're still together, apparently. Do you think that he's been with other men? I know it. They don't live in Maryland anymore. I know they moved. So maybe he stepped down from the company or got a new job? Yeah. Or just works at a different location. Wow. Yeah, I know. What do you even do with that? Yeah, I don't know. You're not even 20. You were 20 years old and you're traumatized by being robbed at gunpoint and then you have this like CEO guy. So then from like my whole 20s was that and then like, I was stuck in that mindset and then 21 and like basically from 21 to 24, I was like kind of like all over the place and just didn't have any luck. Didn't know where to look for a relationship, right? So I was basically single that whole time, just like being like, confused that whole time. Like, do I even want a relationship? Do I not like I was just having a lot of bad luck because I was so f**ked up by everything that happened? And I feel like I lived so many lives before I even turned 21. And both of those things, a lot of these stories sound like two completely different lives to different people, different time frames. Yeah. Like, that's so crazy that it happens in such a short time. Did you go about your gun? Yeah, you had told them about it. And he was like, I never want you to feel anxious about that. It's like when you know someone said yes, he fed off of my like of hurt them. Yeah, that's f**ked up. That is so f**king foul. So it it made me like crazy. And then my anxiety got worse and worse and worse and worse every year that went by. And I think I've never been anxious in my whole life until the kidnapping thing. And then I think my PTSD triggered me to have anxiety, right? And then it just got worse over time until I met Steven when I was 23 24. And and then we've just had such a good relationship, and I've never once felt like he is leaving me or lying to me or doing anything. So it's completely changed the way I think, and he's changed my life like, it's great. I am going to read some of the questions that people submitted to us when I posted on Instagram. Yes. OK, so now people want to know, make up questions. I don't know if you want to answer them. People are really wanting to know about, like affordable quality drug drugstore products you and I actually have talked about like else like they are killing it now. I love their I have to look up the camera concealer. We always easily know that. And then the primer that's like in this like little Oh, the party, the party primer. Yeah, I've never used that. I do love it when I use the liquid glitter on your eyes. Oh, I forgot about, yeah, I actually have a bunch of those. So yeah, that's good. Did you know that you always wanted to be a makeup artist? I knew I wanted to work in beauty in one way or another. I first, I thought I wanted to do just hair. OK? And then I went to cosmetology school and realized I hated it. Oh, so I dropped out. And yeah, together I completely dropped out, number one, because the school was horrible. And number two, I just don't like the school atmosphere. OK, I hate people telling me what to do, and I hate reading out of a book. So do that in cosmetology school. Yes, it's so much book work. Oh, it's it's literally school like it's it's so much. And I was it was just I knew I knew what I was getting myself into, but I just hated everything about it. And I was like, This is taking the fun out of it for me. And I was I just school wasn't a good thing for me. You know how when we go to high school, they teach us things that, like most of us won't use and they don't teach us anything about like finances or mental health or things like, Yeah, is it is. I know that there is some degree of education that you need for cosmetology, especially for hair like how hair follicles and infections and cleanliness and things like that. But is there a lot of stuff that you don't actually use and cosmetology school out in the cosmetology? And like, I think it's so dated, the approach it's the on all the curriculum is outdated. It it changes depending on the state that you're in. OK, but the curriculum, at least from Maryland, where I went, it was like so outdated, like you were doing perm rods and rollers. That's like, I don't want to be doing herald women doing rollers that right? So like, that's what we were doing for weeks and weeks and weeks, and I was like, I don't even want to do this. I don't even think I don't quote me on this. I mean, Taylor, I'm not trying to kill your business, but I don't even know if she does a lot of her. No, like, I think she. Do perms on like very specific clients? People are not. No one asks for them. No, it's like a very dated situation. So yeah, it was just like, not my thing. And then I fell in love with more with makeup, and then I got hired at Sephora and I was like, my sign to like, pursue that. OK, so that was a question. Is eyeliner still a thing? Definitely. I don't wear eyeliner how I used to wear eyeliner. I yeah, it's still a thing. It just the style of it is different. I used to wear eyeliner on your what is this called water line your water line? Yeah. And then I went through a phase of like putting it on my top lid from corner to corner. And then, like the cat, I tried the cat eye thing. My eyes are really small, and so any amount of black eyeliner doesn't typically like unless you do it. Yeah, I can't do it myself. So I don't ever wear eyeliner. Yeah, but I definitely don't think that eyeliner is as like a thing as it once was. Yeah, it's very different. Yeah, especially on the bottom, like the bottom waterline and white was the thing. Yeah. And it's I guess sometimes your hands right is kill a difficult person to work with. You're fired. I wouldn't say difficult at all. But if you're hard to contact sometimes, really, I was I was thinking of other things like I was. I like to play out scenarios in my head. I'm thinking, like, what if she asked me, like any questions about like her? Sometimes you don't reply to messages very fast. Oh yeah. But like and then OK. But like, I think that's like the most difficult thing and like making plans kill. Answer me when you plan a photo shoot. Or like if you plan, I don't know. Never, ever, ever, ever again. Some of the most like Philly. When you plan you, you tried to book everything yourself and you booked two sets of makeup artists two hairstylists. Remember when we were in Philly and we all showed up at the same time? You're like, I'm never planning anything ever again. That was the most humiliating because the thing is that like, on one hand, they don't feel important enough to need an assistant. Like, I don't feel like that's something that f**king regular. Regular cable from Teen Mom to who got knocked up at 16 deserves to have an assistant. But you need what? But like the things that I do require me to have help because I just like can't get my life together in that way. That was a very much a lesson learned for me, and I will never bookish like Kristin is the queen of planning for me. Like she even said to me yesterday, she came here to Christen lives in Pennsylvania, where she lives two hours from me and she actually like, we planned out like a content day yesterday, just the two of us. I didn't need like glam or anything, but I needed to do very specific things. Hmm. So productive. Like even with little bumps in the road that deeper like we were very productive. We got every single thing on the list done. And then she sent me one for today and I don't have her here yet. And I was just like, I don't know how that's going to go. But like as far as, like trips and like event and like shoots like, I will never do that again. Never, never. You know, that's not my strong suit. So if you're asking if I'm just cool, yes, I am. If you're planning it, yes. Yeah, that will never. I won't do that to you again. I'm so sorry. Best facial feature of Kale, you love playing a makeup, you love applying makeup on. Weird question. I like your lips. Really? Hmm. OK, that's not what I expected. I have to I hooded eyes. Yeah. So should I get like a lift? You should get full facial reconstruction. Should I do like a lip? Yes. Everything. OK, cool. Awesome. Let's see. OK, favorite brands on tinted moisturizer. This is a good one. And it also is tinted moisturizer used as like. Does it add a little bit like if you're not looking for like a full face, it's like, yeah, it's like, I wouldn't I wouldn't use into moisturizer or apply it ever because it's summertime, but it's a good thing to use on yourself. Right? So I'm like it. It's super hot out, and I don't like makeup dripping off me. Yeah, like tinted moisturizer. Like, if you're on vacation, it's perfect. Got it. So I like I like the Nas. Nas has a tint, or I guess I don't remember what it's called because I had it worked, right? That's a foreign salon. But they have it into moisturizer that I used to really like and it was like, really nice. And then Laura Mercier has a really good tinted moisturizer is Bebe Cream and CC Cream the same as tinted moisturizer? It's pretty much the same concept. OK, cool. So I'm going to actually get some of that cover up for freckles and sunspots, if you have any. Concealer. Yeah, that's my concealer, literally. Yeah. Not as good as God wish this was an ad, but soon that will cover up any f**king thing. Yeah. Like, I love it. It just. And you can cover up pretty much anything, depending on the technique of how you apply something like if you just like, don't smear it around, if you just apply it like a tapping machine that covers what anyone? Yeah. What are some overhyped makeup products or trends that don't actually work? When I see people on like Instagram videos or TikToks, when they're dripping everything all over their face, it's just I don't even know if that's a trend or if that's just for the video. I started doing it because I saw it on TikTok. It's just like, like, especially like oil or serum. Obviously, if you're doing with a little bit more like what I see people doing like I do so much, it's such a waste of product, but you don't need that much good to know. Yeah, I also love the feeling, but I do like trends like with makeup. I feel like makeup is a you have to tend to follow the trends for a little bit. So I don't mind, I'm not like a trend hater, but that's one thing that I always like. It makes me cringe because you're wasting so much product by like pouring it all over your face and then smearing it all over the place. It's like, stop attacking. It's honestly not even funny. OK? Someone commented and said, Why does he look like a gorgeous Pete Wentz? I've never heard that in my life. Well, that's what they said. Well, think it was, maybe it was the picture. When's your birthday? January 30th, 1990, R. A.. Don't tell me you're a an Aquarius. Yes. And do you feel like you are an Aquarius? Yeah. What are your big three? Definitely. Like the creativeness is definitely the top one. I hate people telling me what to do. OK. And. Do you know your moon sign and your rising sign? I don't off the top of my head, I have it written in my phone somewhere, on my back, on my phone. So I'm a Pisces with a Leo Moon. So like, my emotions are very much Leo and I'm a Virgo rising. So people think I have my s**t together, but I don't have my s**t together. I think it's just very much a facade. OK, what lip color was I wearing in the picture? I think it was the picture of me and you when we filmed it here. It's the same thing you're wearing now. It's from Jaclyn Cosmetics. OK. I think I've posted it. You posted. I forget the name of it. OK. What's your biggest pet peeve in sex? If everything's about sex, um, I don't. I'm not. I don't really have a lot of pet peeves. I'm pretty good with the flow, for the most part. I mean, I know with makeup, one of my pet peeves are if and like, this is going to attack you. But it doesn't bother me necessarily when you're doing it because you cooperate with me. If I tell you to look up, you do it. But if if someone is just on their phone the entire time. And like, look up and then they look up and look right back down. I definitely do. But you've done it before and I try not to like, I try to like pause what I'm doing. So you do what you do. You're very cooperative, but there's people that don't. So what do you do? I just stand there. I'm your worst client. Yeah. Honestly, since I've been self-employed, I don't have like terrible clients because the people that book me are booking me because of me. Right? So they know me and they already like something about me. That's why they book me. So they're very like, So this is like an old, yeah, this is like back in when I worked at Sephora and it was just like the randoms would walk in and just book whoever's available. So they're just nuts. OK? And I mean, so she asked me to do her wedding like off the back. And I'm like, You don't even know what I'm like. You don't even know if I'm good looking or anything. So she's like, Let's do a trial. It's book, and this was just her walking into Sephora and walking up. Are you allowed to book clients outside? Yeah. OK, cool. I just didn't know what the rules. Yeah, you're allowed to do that as long as they don't think that you are like a representative of them. Yeah. And as long as you're not like trying to recruit people away from Sephora, got it. So I built this lady for her wedding and it was an Indian wedding, which they Indian weddings are the most extravagant thing ever, and it's a. So I guess it depends on the wedding, obviously in the bride. But this particular one was a two day long wedding. So the ceremony was so long that the ceremony and the reception were two separate days. That's so funny. Yeah, because she was marrying an American guy, so they wanted to have an Indian ceremony and I guess more traditional ceremony. So it was just the most extravagant thing ever. Now, so excited because she was like, she's like, Do I want red and golds? And I want like rhinestones. And I went crazy. So I was so excited to do it. We did the trial. She loved it. We did the first day. She loved it. And then the second day I sat and I was also she didn't have a huge like bridesmaid, like a bridal party. It was she, like, wanted me just for her and everyone else had their own people. So she wanted me to do her hair also. So I was like, OK, listen, your second day is where we're on a really tight time limit. So please, like if you're going to wash your hair after you after the wedding, please have it dry. When I arrive, taken off this time blow because your hair is down to your a*s and we do not have time to blow dry it and do everything. And she's like, OK, no problem. And I arrive. She keeps me waiting in the hotel lobby for 30 minutes, and then because she overslept, I get up to her room, her soaking wet from the shower. She picked out a specific type of lash, and they only had one available, so we only had one pair of lashes that she specifically wanted. So I said, when you take these off tonight, save them. We could only fight like we could only find this one particular pair that you wanted. So we have no other pair that you like. OK, perfect. So when I arrive and I packed them know she threw them away like she, she was like, I feel that way. Why didn't you tell me to save them? And I'm like, I told you, like 15 times to save them, and you didn't. And I'm like, But I knew that you probably would do that. So I brought something similar. And she's like, I hate them. I was like, Well, they're the only ones we have. You threw them away. So she was just like, she was like cussing out her bridesmaids. She was cutting other photographer like total brides. Yeah. But the first day it was amazing. Like which one? Which one came first? The traditional ceremony or the Indian ceremony? The Indian ceremony was the. Well, I think both ceremonies were the first day and then the second day. This was the reception, the reception. So this should have been the more chill one, right? Like, not as silly. OK, so it was like she was just so rude and so disrespectful and everything I did, she said she hated. But I'm like, I'm I'm recreating what I did yesterday, right? Like the exact same thing. I'm doing the same thing. Same products like, no, no, no, no, no, this is all wrong. Everything's wrong. And she just started screaming at everyone. She ended up balling up my money and throwing it at me. And that was. And I was like, Well, guess I'm never doing any of her friends makeup ever again. But it actually her whole family, like she's had like six or seven like cousins or whatever booking for their wedding shut up. And they all loved it so much. No, everyone is great for everyone else. And I'm like, I was always nervous. I'm like, Are you going to act like your cousin? Like? But they were pretty good, but it's crazy that, like, she seemed to hate me so much. But I guess she spoke so highly of me after the fact that just proves that never has anything to do with you. Yeah, everything to do with them. Yeah. Because if she actually hated it, she wouldn't recommend it. Yeah. But I've gotten so many other people in our family and they like the fact that I've done it before so they can see your way. They're like, OK, so you've experienced the Indian wedding before, you know how extravagant is. So I trust you with mine. So do you ever like apologize? No, I've never seen her again since that day. I don't hear this would be like, You know what? I was wrong. I'm sorry. Probably not. But it's just like I endlessly f**king bike. OK, well, thank you so much for coming on the barely famous podcast. Our 15 minutes is up today. Oh, it's up. It's well. So if you all want part two, let us know where to find you. First of all, your Instagram, Twitter, whatever you want to promote your business, your website, anything. Instagram is a zip owner under square makeup, not boner. Yeah, so OK. My last name is boner, right? Right, right? But like everyone just used to call me boner, and so I just went Instagram came out. I made it Jay Z boner, and then it's changed sibutramine. I love that. OK, so do you want to make up to the website? I do. It's yes, anxiety or Aperol dot com. I love that for you. Wearing our anxiety, we're gonna take a picture in our inside your shirt. So you guys, yeah, we'll link them as well. So you guys know you can link them. Yeah, OK, perfect. So we will link them so you guys can see where we got it because people ask about me, buddy. Yeah, and thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me. Watch Yellowstone for free on Pluto TV all this weekend. Pluto TV is streaming a marathon of seasons one to three of Yellowstone. The show The Wrap calls a smash hit series. Pluto TV also has hundreds of channels and thousands of movies and TV shows like Mission Impossible three, Gladiator, CSI and more. Absolutely free. So download the free Pluto TV streaming app and watch Yellowstone Seasons one to three free.