Transcript
And the chef took the plate out of his hand and threw it across the kitchen, and that plate like, I could hear that it break air past my head and crash. And I will tell you and it's it's such a visceral core memory. But I remember in that moment, I was like, this is exciting. Like, this is where I wanna work, and I love it here. And, like Wow. Let the child know what to end. It went into that was the first day of, like, the rest of my life. Did you know that just even forcing a smile onto your face can change your physiology, can release endorphins, serotonin, oxytocin, hormones to elevate your mood, make you feel better? It's all in today's podcast. Welcome to the Let Me Save You twenty five Years podcast where we unpack real lessons from the most successful people around tight topics that really bring new insight into ideas that bring success. Today's Shawn ism is one that has carried me through some of the toughest times in my life. Smile anyway. And I don't just mean the fake ones, those two, but learning to achieve the authentic smiles that comes from achieving through resilience, from achieving joy out of experiences that weren't easy. And if anyone knows how to do that with style and grace and goodness, maybe even a little heat in the kitchen, it is today's guest, celebrity chef, Nyesha Arrington. We're going to dive deep into this idea of smile anyway, and we'll talk about how smiling is not just pretending that everything's fine. It's more about how you show up to the world. Everything we do has an energy to it, which is one of the reasons you can even taste the love that's cooked into food. Success means being happy while you're at your craft and why it's so important to fix your own oxygen mask first before necessarily helping the person next to you. Why leading through love is the harder choice, but always the correct approach. And speaking like a chef here, how the first Shaughness in my book, just do something pairs nicely with smile anyway. This conversation with Nyesha is a keeper. I hope you love it. Here we go. Today on the pod, we welcome a fierce competitor from Bravo's top chef. She is a mentor on Fox's Next Level Chef. And to those who really know her, she is the ninja and bring and that nickname is well earned. She's a master of precision, creativity, and discipline. She's been obsessed with vision. She was five years old. That passion has taken her everywhere from celebrity kitchens to massive TV audiences. And no matter what, she brings it all back to sustainability, connection, and purpose. But what I love most about Nyesha is her ability to bring joy to her work no matter what pressure she's under. Whether she's crafting a dish or mentoring young chefs, she shows up with intention, with passion, and, yes, with a smile. And that's exactly what we're talking about today. Please welcome to the pod, Naisha Arrington. Crowd goes wild. Thanks for having me. Exactly what happened. You know? We it's so great to have you. Thanks for taking the time. I'm I'm so excited to unpack this with you. As you know, we're gonna we're gonna dive into this. Sean is, smile anyway. And you've already given me such a great example. But before, you know, you think too hard or, you know, without without too much prep, what's the first thing that came to your mind when you when you heard this, you know, topic? What what what came to your mind? Yeah. Out of the topics that your team sent over, I think, a couple stood stood out to me, but this one for me, I think, is really important. You know? It's something that feels organic and authentic to me because, I mean, you know, I would say I've I mean, I've been cooking for twenty years, but it feels authentic very much to my story. You know? I smile because I understand how much, a smile can change the perspective and resonate with someone, and change their day. You know? I think also, you know, smiling is not just about kinda pretending that everything's fine. I think it's also deciding about, like, how you wanna show up in the world is really important to me. You know? You mentioned fierce. You meant you mentioned a few of the things I've done in my career, and, you know, I have consciously subjected myself to working in the toughest kitchens and, competing myself and also being a mentor and a judge in every, you know, cooking competition on the planet, I've pretty much been a part of. I come from a competitive background. I've played sports growing up and, studied marsh. I played soccer. I played softball. I played, what else? That's pretty much it. I did track when I was really young. But, yeah, mostly softball and soccer in high school. Cool. Yeah. And martial arts. What martial arts are you into? I oh my gosh. So many. I've done, Kenpo, Shotokan, Zendoru. My dad was a big martial arts guy, so he I was like, I think I was his muse. He was like, I'm gonna put her into every, you know, sort of sport, which I learned. I think, you know, discipline ultimately and, sort of social fitness. I think when you're on a team dynamic, you really learn how to, like, put those reps in. You know, and and I think as a kid, it's really important to learn what it feels like to fail, to, like, miss catching the ball, and you're, like, feel like you let your team down. And, you know, when you're, like, seven, you think it's, like, the biggest thing in the world. You know, your world view and perspective is a lot smaller, and, I think it's good to, like, experience those emotions when you're a kid. You know, and you show up next week. You keep smiling. You try to do better. And I think those, sort of firsthand lived experience in this when I was a kid are showing up in with the day to day work ethic that I have as an as an adult. Yeah. Isn't that cool? It is cool. It's cool how that plays through. Yeah. Absolutely. So so I have to ask that with all the with with all of the martial arts you listed and your dad's influence, is it possible that what was it? Like, that game show host who, as it turns out, was actually like an it was like an n he was like an NSA operative, and his cover was a game show. You know this from the nineteen sixties. Is it possible you're actually a ninja? Master rating as a chef? Honestly, Sean. Honestly, I mean, I definitely think there's, a lot that I've learned in martial arts for sure that I that plays into how I cook. And how I got that nickname was Oh. In cooking competitions and how I move and how I like you know and the best way I can describe it is, you know, there were moments where I can reflect and think back to cooking on the line. Right? These tough, fierce, demanding kitchens. Right? Michelin star kitchens where it's just the rail is filled with tickets, sweaty, hot kitchens, and you're putting out excellence. Right? And I remember, you know, these moments where you have to almost, experience it like you're a Jedi. You know, you're thinking about the steps that you make before you make them. You know? And that's, I think, what I take from that martial arts experience. The Jedi moments. Is it I I think that in many realms, you're probably touching on the idea of flow. Right? Being in flow in a flow state where, you know, you're able to operate at almost a superhuman level, it seems, both mentally, physically, you know, executionally. And sometimes you even surprise yourself with what what you were able to accomplish or achieve or or just the even the feeling that you're able to experience in those moments. Is that fair? Oh, it's it's it's how do I wanna articulate this? It gives me so much, energy to hear it. People who experience that and are in flow can express that because when you feel it, it feels superhuman. You know? You're like, woah. Like, am I a magician? You know? And so it's really cool when everything's connected and you can actually think your thoughts and then express them. And that's what you know, in my, like, times when I mix like, even right on Next Level Chef and I'm mentoring and I'm like, okay. Conceptualize your dish. Right? Then you have to grab ingredients to then express that and then tell your hands to do the things that you wanted to do and then put it on the plate. You know? It's, like, harder than a lot of people would think up against a time clock and so much pressure. But, yeah, when you can get in flow and I think that directly correlates with how your central nervous system is showing up. You know? And we can feel regulated, and we do the breath work, and we can really get in our skin. Like, lots of great things are possible. Well, I think that look. You're top of your game in the realm you operate, and I get to interview lots of different people who are the top of their game and their realm, and this is a common theme. And and one of the things in this in this area that stuck out to me that I gleaned from another pro who got to give this speech at an event that I was at. He he was talking specifically about the the flow state. He studies it as a trained psychologist, and he's he and this is cool because I've I've shared this one once before, but I wanna liken it to what you do because, he said that the science has proven you know, the flow state is a real phenomenon where we're able to operate at much higher levels of output under certain conditions. And he said the the kinds of experiences that are most satisfying and flow inducing usually involve three things. Number one, a bit of a bit of risk. Like, it's it's risky. It's it's there's a there's there's, there's something on the line. You know? So I think these competitions, I think also you operating in, Michelin star restaurants where it's like the the expectation is so high. And if you can't cut it, you're out. You know? So there's that risk. There's an element, number two, of of danger. There's an element of danger. And I think that, you know, even though, you know, cooking, people probably wouldn't associate with that. Sure. You know, you know, when you slice the tip of your finger, that can happen. But, but also that danger that comes from the pressure of operating in that environment that's so demanding. Right? But number three was, you achieve it with a group. You know, when you when we're doing these types of things with a group, and I think that your profession is not a solo profession. You know, even though the chef gets their name on the restaurant or the, you know, the top billing, as you, I think, would attest, this is very much a team effort in the end. And so I think that that's a a good example of perhaps why you it's so cool that in a in a medium that's totally irrelevant to me because I I can barely use the microwave. Like, you you've found this channel to achieve flow state, which is such a satisfying thing for any human to be able to achieve. And I I would argue others can achieve it through action sports, through mountaineering, through, you know, music, playing jazz. I've had a little bit of that experience. You know? Because you're on a stage and it's like sink or swim. The same the same dynamics can exist across so many mediums that seem so unrelated. I think that's pretty cool. Yeah. I completely agree. And I think you said so many great, notes to sort of weave in the topic and, a lot of lived experience. And and so, you know, for me, I've found that I can best communicate with a team and lead a team if I'm doing the right things, if I'm hydrated, if I have a great fitness routine, if, you know, I can lead by example. You know? And I think these are, like, topics now that are celebrated. You know? Whereas early two thousands, nineties, whatever, like, these weren't maybe top of line discussions. You know? They were just performance, performance, performance, performance, which is how I lived a lot of the first part of my life. You know? And now, you know, I have, insurmountably grown as a leader and even in other capacities as being a part of a team and show up in incredible ways by doing the work, you know, getting in a flow state and learning what how do I get in a flow state. You know? Mhmm. That's great. I think it's an under, appreciated superpower. It is a superpower to be able to achieve a flow state for anyone who's experienced it. And I, again, think it's so cool that you know, it can happen across, I I think, almost any medium. And, by the way, I I mislabeled it. It was things that are really challenging, things that have some element of risk or danger, where a lot's on the line, and then third, doing it with a group, achieving it with a group. And so it's cool that you found that in what you do. And, of course, the result is a smile. Like, I never feel better than, for instance, when I experienced that flow state. In my case, I talk a lot about it, but I I'm into I'm addicted to dirt biking off road, very dangerous with group. These things are true, and I get that feeling with my own design team. And so that's a smile that comes naturally from achievement and experience and natural, authentic joy. Right? Now the topic today, smile anyway, when you're not in flow state, when, your entire wardrobe has been drowned by an unforeseen torrent and you have to go be on TV, which by the way, if that happened to my wife, and I don't mean to be sexist, I just know my wife. I mean, that's it's it's canceled. You know what I mean? There I I can't I can't even get to take a selfie with her unless there's, you know, significant warning and preparation. So, how have you discovered the ability to smile anyway? And not only that, what is the result, you know, when you're able to pull that off? You know, I think, you know, there have been so many I wanna sort of back into my response. There's been so many opportunities to not smile. Right? There's been so many business challenges. There's been so many personal struggles. But through all of that, you know and I think back and I can reflect, and I was roller plating in my parents' front yard in our driveway at the house I grew up in. And I remember sort of experiencing these, like, new ways of consciousness. Right? Like, you're a kid and you have these different stages of consciousness. And I remember in this moment, it was really sunny, and, I had this thought. It was such a core memory and powerful thought because it has helped guide me, since. And I thought to myself, like, I would like to be successful. Like, that seems like a cool thing to do. You know? And How old were you? I had to I was I had to have been seven. Roughly seven or eight. Yeah. And I I just I just remember seeing now sort of small doses of how the world works, this planet. You know? Like, seeing the big people, seeing the adults, like, seeing the characters, the cast of characters of life, the facial traits, people that seem worn, people that seem jovial and vibrant. And I made the distinction of see seeing that and seemingly the craft tied to the journey of life seemed to bring the most joy. And I thought to myself, I better find something that I love to do because I don't wanna be one of those adults when I grow up that has to go to work. Like, it seems like why couldn't why couldn't my work be the thing that I love? You know? And I remember that. And I thought, okay. Cool. You know? Like, what do I love to do? At that time, I didn't necessarily know, okay. It's being a chef. But then now when I look back, I mean, my grandmother, you know, she would pull me into the kitchen every opportunity possible. And I would blanch vegetables, and I would learn little knife skills, and I would cook with her and, all of these amazing memories. And I remember when she cooked for me, that's when I, for the first time, had this powerful moment of this is what love tastes like. You know? This didn't taste like a chicken tender at school. You know? This didn't taste like a TV dinner or whatever it was. Like, when my grandmother cooked for me, I remember this visceral moments of, like, this is what love tastes like. Right. And I believe in that. I believe that we have frequency. I believe that everything we put intention to has a frequency to it and an energy transfer. And, you know, I I remember that so distinctly, and I always wanted to, like, harness that and carry that with me. So, you know, I say at seven years old, I didn't know what I wanted to do, but it was always something innately in me. And I remember she had us peeling garlic and my sister not loving the task, and I just remember, you know, sort of switching brains into the more analytical side of thinking, okay. How do we have to do this thing, and, like, grandma's grandma, and she's gonna make sure that we complete the task before we go play. And I was like, okay. Like, that is a fixed outcome. So, like, how can I finish this efficiently so that I could go play sooner? And I remember, you know, making up a technique of, like, smashing the garlic to get the skins off because I remember it was so sticky and so annoying. Mhmm. And I just didn't like that feeling. Yeah. And then I was like, okay. If you smash it or, like, you know, use this bowl, the skins come off, and then I was able to, like, peel it all quickly and process it. That on your own. Yeah. When I was a kid. You know? This was maybe five years old. And so, you know, I say all that to say, I just remember that moment of thinking and looking at the adults and being like, okay. Like, this person has to go to work. They don't look super stoked about it. Like, how do I flip that for me? And, you know, when I think back, I was always in the kitchen. I was always you know, I I told my dad I wanted to open a restaurant when I was nine, and I called it. I named it, and I said that every day, I want it to be a different cuisine. And I wanted to do isn't that cool? Because I remember, like, sitting in the back seat of my parents' car and looking at different businesses and thinking, oh, restaurants are such a cool place. But I was like, why are they all one thing? That didn't make sense to me. And I was like, a restaurant could be whatever, Indian cuisine. It could be whatever. You know? LA cuisine. It can be Mexican. And then my dad was like, oh, that would have to be, like, a really big pantry. And I was like, oh, it's interesting interesting thought. But I was like, yeah. I'm gonna call it a plus one good restaurant, because I was like, that's all the best things. That sounds great. And I remember standing in the kitchen with my dad talking about that. And it it mean, it could have been literally the same day, you know, that I started to sort of get these first reps in on how to use my brain. You know? And, and and so for me, when I thought that thought of, like, okay. I want to be successful. Didn't know what that meant necessarily, but I did know that it meant being happy with what you're doing as your craft. Because when it's your craft, you're always gonna wanna find some efficiency. You're always gonna wanna find some new technique. You're always gonna wanna share your knowledge. You know, it's never something that you're just like, okay, I'm done. Like, it's always gonna keep ever unfolding, you know, and I think that is a gift, you know. And so all my life, I've I've been drawn to food. And the first day I sat in culinary school and decided to go, I knew it. I knew I was living in my purpose. And so for me, having this be my center, you know, it it it's it's truly what keeps me smiling. You know? And that's sort of how I back into the answer because the tough days, the the businesses that didn't work out, the days when a dishwasher doesn't show up, and, you know, it's the first day I've had off in six months, and my eyes are bleary. You know, and I go in and have to wash dishes or whatever. Yeah. You know? And you still show up, and you do it anyway, and you do it with a smile. And and I would be, not honest if I didn't say there were days when I didn't do it with a smile. Sure. Sure. You know? And and now in my in my after gathering tons of life data and learning how much that can have an effect on a team and morale and Yeah. And things like that. You know? And so super important, you know, to and I I really, Sean, I really try to make it my best effort to show up. And when people are walking down the street, I try to make eye contact and smile because Yeah. It's, like, almost like a game. When I get a smile back, oh, it warms my heart, and especially when people really mean it because you can tell they really needed it. And a lot of people, if they don't and they take it or you know, maybe they'll smile to the next person. Who knows? But a smile, I think, is so, so, so, so cool, so important, you know, even when things aren't great. Yeah. This is fantastic. I I if I can summarize and tie together a few things you said to lead to another discussion. As I hear you talk about reaching all the way back to your childhood and finding what I would call that alignment, you know, first, that self awareness to even, be aware of what you want, like you wanted to be successful, whatever that meant at the time. Being aware of what you love so you could align with that, like discovering and paying attention to your you know, moments of joy that allowed you to make the connection that if I could put myself in a position where I got to cook all the time, I could be happy there. Therefore, the opportunity to smile maybe authentically and naturally is more common because you're not stuck just doing stuff that you hate. There's a baseline for those smile opportunities, but then you took it further. Right? And you said, you know, even even when you have to show up and do the hard things, sure. We all have tough days and sometimes we're we we don't. Sometimes we we don't smile anyway, but the best of us, and you're one of those, do much of the time, most of the time, because you've learned, I think, that that is what being a professional is. It goes beyond just being a great chopper of vegetables, and it's about being a great human. If you can be both a great human and have put in the reps to be a great chopper of vegetables, then you land at the top of your game, like where you are, as opposed to just having a job in cooking. And that is something that I see across really all of my guests here, and and I think it's underappreciated. I think a lot of people want the outcome without putting in the work, not just in the craft, but the work it takes to put on that smile when it's not as easy. Hopefully, you've aligned your your life in a way that makes it easy some of the time or most of the time, but it will never be all of the time. I believe that the most successful people have maybe just naturally identified that ability to smile anyway, even when you're under the worst kind of pressure, as one of those elements of being a great human, let alone a great chef in your case. Yeah. That word alignment is so powerful. It really resonates. I think all great things can come from there, and and I think it's not to be confused with this idea that, like, oh, everything's aligned. Like, everything's easy. You know? It's a I'm just, like, skipping a drop, and everything's flat. True. I don't care how rich they are, how famous they are. It is never ever true. Right? Right? It's hard. You gotta, like, get up and dust yourself off and do hard s**t, and it's very difficult. You know? And the the idea of smiling anyways and always trying to get back to that alignment is what the North Star is. Like, that's what keeps the smile on because you're always trying to get back to that alignment. And it's so it's so, so, so important. It's so important. And So at the top of this that please. No. Go ahead. No. Keep going. No. And I say that now coming from a place of being whole. You know? Because I think when you're building yourself, you know, through your twenties, through your thirties, maybe it's not a chronological thing, but you're kinda data collecting. And now you kinda have all this, like, okay. Like, I kinda understand how the world works. And now, you know, how can I share that to kind of show and give perspective to other people? You know? Yeah. Yeah. That's fantastic. And that's cool that if you feel like you're at a place where you've, I don't know, achieved something, landed somewhere, you feel more whole, I think that's a light at the end of the tunnel for anyone, you know, that that just feels like it's just a grind, and it's it never relents. It's not to say I'm sure that you don't have your days and that you still don't have your insecurities or shortcomings. I mean, I I'm speaking for myself here. Oh, for sure. But what a blessing to know that you can get to a place where you at least feel like you have enough bandwidth to maybe uplift others a little bit, to maybe share more, to maybe, you know you have a fixed your own oxygen mask, so let's reach out. I love that. I say that all the time in my, like, subconscious. I'm like, no. Okay. Let's see exactly. Fix our own oxygen mask first, and then we can do the things. But And by the way, it comes and goes. Right? There there are periods, weeks or months or or maybe even years of our life where we feel we feel in a we we're in a place to give, and then there are times where we really have to focus on ourselves or we run the risk of losing ourselves, I think. A %. A %. It's it's so important. And I think, yeah, finding that that core and and watering ourselves is so, so important and being a I mean, for me, you know, I feel like I'm this, like, almost chronic, like, student of life. I, like, love knowledge. Like, I love conversation. You know? I love speaking with older people also. You know? I just love people who have lived experience, you know, and and young people too, humans in general, but I just love it. I I love to share, you know, because I think, there's so many different lenses that we can look through in life. You know? And one is, you know, not the all being. You know? There's so many different perspectives, so many different facets, and, it's it's super cool to be able to share that. You know? Yeah. Well, and speaking of of pushing ourselves to do hard things, you know, you just mentioned you have this feeling of being this, endless student of life or or however you turned it. You know, at LoveSac, we have this core value or this this table stakes value, meaning, like, just to be here, we want you to be an insatiable learner. It's one of those. An insatiable learner. Right? And I have this insatiable it it's not like, oh, I've I've figured out enough. Like, I can do this job. And to this day, I really push myself in all of my spare time to be reading books always, to be taking in the best kinds of information and not look. I have my moments where I I like to scroll some, you know, useless stuff on Instagram to relax, but but I try really hard to be pushing myself to be constantly learning. And as many will tell you, the it seems like the more that I intake, the more that I think I learn, the dumber I feel because I just like that there are true geniuses on this planet that that, you know, I I feel like I get closer to and, like, I just feel even dumber the older I get. I think I was smarter when I was younger. I felt like I knew everything. Ugh. Tell me about it. I felt invincible. Like, any genre of literature that you gravitate towards to sort of like You know, I try to read useful things, what I would term you know, I I have a hard time. I push myself to read one novel a year. Okay. I just because I've I've read somewhere that reading novels increases our empathy. Somehow our ability to connect with humans by good writers, as opposed to even just watching movies, but that that can do it too. And so I push myself to read one novel a year, but mostly just nonfiction. You know? I like to learn facts and ideas and philosophy. I especially like psych psychology books, books, you know, that are based on psychological kind of findings. So Dan Goleman, emotional intelligence, you know, psycho cybernetics, Maxwell Miles, some of the classics, and and then the new stuff that's all built on top of that. Our minds are just look. Even the best scientists in the world can't explain how we wake up. Like, what is consciousness? Literally, like, how what is the moment between they can track our brainwaves, right, between being asleep and waking up, but they cannot figure out what it means to even be awake, what it means to have consciousness, you know, being able to think about our thoughts because no other animals can do it in the way that humans can do it. We know that. But but and they cannot induce it. Like, when people are in a coma, they cannot they can do things to hopefully bring them out of a coma, but they cannot jump start the human brain because they don't even understand what it means to be conscious. What's my point? My point is, is that this meat computer that we've all got up in our in our skull is incredibly complex and incredibly capable. And it's up to us to have the spend the the few decades we get on this earth to learn how to utilize it. Totally. And try to tap into and expand that, if I may, because it's like, I believe that we're probably not accessing as much as we think we're capable of Yeah. In the consciousness. Okay. So with, you know, in the top of this interview, you you you mentioned authenticity a few times, and I think that's an important concept to be conscious of and to be in pursuit of. How do you square that up with the idea that we smile anyway? Isn't that somehow inauthentic to, you know, put on that smile when things aren't great? Why why can't we just show how we feel? Like, if we're just not feeling great, why can't we just not smile? How about that? You know? How do you think about squaring that up? Yeah. It's a really great question. And I think it's a my perspective is the way that I approach a lot of things, which is I think there is this sort of macro zoomed out lens, and then I think that simultaneously, there's this micro lens, which is like the shorter interactions when you have to be explicit in your communication style, and you don't have all the time in the world to say, okay. I know you burned this chicken again. And if you could, like, not do that again, that'd be, like, really great. Okay? Like, no. You know? I have to be, like, you know, say my things very explicitly and probably not with a smile and probably with a raised tone of voice. You know? And then hours can go by and service ends, and I can maybe readdress a situation at a different state and, maybe end the conversation with a smile. But I think, you know, I think that there's authenticity in both. I I think that it would be inauthentic to always, you know, pretend that you're happy or wear that smile on your face. I think, really, the goal is to kinda surround yourself with enough people who have that emotional intelligence to understand that there's authenticity in both. Right? There's a myriad of, like, expressions, and they can all have the essence of a smile, but not literally on your face. Sure. You know? If you're not demeaning someone. Yep. Yeah. I mean, there are certainly moments where smiling would be not only inauthentic, but probably inappropriate. Right? Totally problematic, for sure. There's this there's this line in the in the Barenaked Ladies song that I that I love because, you know, he says, it's in that annoying song that's, like, the number one is that one week. Right? Yeah. I I something to this extent of, like, I laugh at a funeral. Yeah. But by the way, that's a weird psychological reaction that many people have. Like, when something even when like, if someone says, oh, so and so died, you know, there's a reaction that some people have where they, it causes them to, like, kind of laugh inside, like, smile, and it's, like, totally involuntary. Anyway, speaking of, inappropriate reactions, So, look, there's a time to be intense. There's a time how do you how do you think about okay. In your world Yes. Okay. In my world in my world, Steve Jobs is celebrated because he was just such a an amazing force in both business and creativity and product design and everything else. With that came in the early two thousands, a celebration, veneration, and mimicking of Steve Jobs' ways to the extent that he was also a complete a hole. I mean, he could downright belittle and berate people and reduce them to nothing. Sure. And that became kind of like a badge of honor in business during that time, I remember. And and and it was and I think it was both officially, but more so unofficially utilized by entrepreneurs to and business leaders to be a holes because that's how like, look. That's how the best of them get it done. And you have examples of the same thing in your world. You know, you've got the Hell's Kitchen kind of approach and things like that. How do you how do you observe that, and how does that affect the way that you choose to behave? Yeah. You know, I I lived a lot of that. And I earlier, I kinda mentioned that early two thousands mentality. And a lot of the kitchens that I came up in Mhmm. Were these, like, rough, rugged, tough sailorships. The Anthony Bourdain, just grit, gully kitchens. Like and that's how it was. You know? And that was an that was an era, and I don't and I imagine probably deeper, you know, the preceding generation, probably even worse, and I'm sure they experienced. It's just was part of the culture similarly to the comp that you gave. And it was and and we wore it like a badge of honor. You know? And I remember at that time, pre, who I am today, consciously, at times, telling myself that I will be politely leaving my soul at the door here before I walk into this kitchen to freaking survive. I'm not like, that is so real, Sean. Wow. You you like, the the story that I could share like, you wouldn't even believe. Like, the things I've seen, the things I've experienced, but it was like you f**king show up every day, and you just try to be better every single day. You know? You you completely walk through that kitchen, a robot to try to be the most efficient cook, chef that you can be for one goal in in mind. And, you know, I say, like, chefs are a specific breed of human. We are very good at adapting. We are very good at, learning a grid. We are very good at, like, being analytical and creative at the same time. And you could input any any task into that, and we'll we'll figure it out, generally speaking. And, I think that drive and and, like, how our brains are built, is the only thing that keeps us coming back. You know? And and and this also this sort of, sense of community around, like, being, in this, like, underbelly. You know, chefs are kinda like, you know, the tattoos, and we're, like, part of a gang. Or, like, you know, like, there's more I mean, like That's the thing. Unless you become famous Yeah. Which ultimately is super rare. Yeah. And even then, how many, you know, humans are really paying attention. Yeah. You're you're literally in the back. Yeah. You know, you're behind the scenes, this this this whole, enclave of people. Because by the way, the chef is one thing, but then there's two dozen other people doing the work Yeah. That are totally unseen. Yeah. It's true. And you kinda thrive in that because you're like, okay. Cool. Like, I'm I'm a part of a team, but I I'm like the bones of it. I'm the backbone of the team. You know? And and you wear it as a badge of honor. And and and as we're having this conversation, there's so many, vignettes that are playing in my mind of, like, moments that I've experienced that I, are, like, mildly repressed. You know? That it's like Give me one. They were cool. Well, for example, one of these kitchens. Right? I was a saucier and, or they call it a beyond. So you essentially it was the first Michelin star kitchen I ever walked in. And the chef found me somehow, and he was like, you should work here. And I had this imposter syndrome the entire time I was there. And, I remember the first night, what they call a stage, and you you go in the kitchen, and you essentially work for free. And, I was at the pass where all the plates come up. The entire brigade brings the plates to the pass, and I was standing at the pass, standing next to the second person in command under the executive chef, chef's cuisine. And I was, plating, and one of the servers came in, and he said to the chef at the pass you know, he expressed whatever the guest had said to him, which was something like, oh, the dish is cold or whatever it was. And the chef took the plate out of his hand and threw it across the kitchen, and that plate like, I could hear that it break air past my head and crash. And this is a it's like a Bernadette plate. So, like, I mean, the plate's a hundred bucks before you put food on it. Okay? Like, it's, like, the finest plate. And it just I just remember it just, like, right past my head. And I will tell you and it's it's such a visceral core memory. But I remember in that moment, I was like, this is exciting. Like, this is where I wanna work, and I love it here. And, like Wow. Let the child know what to end. It went into that was the first day of, like, the rest of my life, literally. And so, yeah. No. Masochist is about right. And so, yeah, it was just, you know, more years of that. And so, like yeah. You know? But you just there's something, you know, that just By the way, hold on. Isn't it true you. Isn't it true that in that moment as a as an aspiring saucier Yep. You knew that you were in a legitimate kitchen somehow that that experience is like, okay. It's kinda like when I okay. So I speak Mandarin. I spend a lot of my life in China. It's a whole story. But when I walk into a Chinese restaurant, you know, I can tell just by the way first of all, of course, who's sitting around me, but the way the way the waiter's speaking to the tables, is this a real Chinese restaurant, or is this like, you know Yes. Whatever. Yes. Hakan Chinese food for the for the Americans. And, you just know. It's like an instinct thing once you've been around it. And so that's so interesting. Now to that end, with with these gnarly experiences that you've had, and that's like you said, that was just one that happened to you happen to share. Then how do you square up this idea of, you know, you you had the you had the curse of coming up in the early two thousands when that was the state of affairs, and it was brutal and to some degree excused by what was happening on TV and and in real life in that category. You also had the blessing of coming up at a time where that made you strong and tough and capable and obviously brought you to the top of your game. And now as we live in a society that I think is becoming in many realms, maybe not yours, I don't know, more genteel, more able to be both tough and loving at the same time. Yeah. Where also it's almost imposed upon us because of laws and, you know, litigiousness. How do you how do you think about that? Wow. That's that's summed up the entire last twenty years of my career. Like, it's it's been a roller coaster. You know? Because, similarly, with a lot of entrepreneurs, as you mentioned, you know, I led the same way. You know? And I'm not ashamed to say that because I think, you know, lived experience is important, and it's important to honor. You know? I still love that person, me, in 02/2008 when she was the youngest chef in the building running the kitchen, and she didn't know how to be a leader yet or whatever. And she learned And had to fling the occasional plate or something? Or whatever. So many things. Yeah. Totally. Absolutely. So now how do you reconcile it? How do you reconcile it to, I'll call it, where leadership, I think, has come, where it's kinda come more full circle. I'm not even talking about. You know? But but that too, you you know, how do you reconcile it? How do you reconcile the need for the pursuit of perfection and excellence Wow. With the ability to be more humane? Or is it is it not reconcilable? Yeah. Well, I think there's a huge I was gonna say I'm almost gonna say undercurrent, but it's actually really starting to really come to the top. In the in my industry, in my in my in the field of cooking, it was really dark dark. We started really losing a lot of great people. You know? And, you know To what? Are you saying to to suicide? Their lives. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, there's a lot of, abuse, of alcohol, drug abuse. You know, there's a lot of darkness. There was. You know, it's starting to come to the light in the industry. You know? And I think, it's really cool to sift through these things and talk about them and bring them to light and and and see that there is a better way to lead. And I and I would say, now with leadership, not just in my field in particular, I think it's almost like a flex as a leader to be able to say, like, I am so in my skin that I can communicate effectively. Because, ultimately, when you're pushed to the point of yelling, raising your voice, berating, all these things, you're coming from a place because you yourself are not regulated. You know? So it's more difficult to express your feelings in a way that someone can receive them and then do a great job that is not out of fear. Right? It's not a fear based style of leadership. And I don't get me wrong. I really believe that high pressure is important for excellence. I believe you should feel pressure, but I think there's a difference between healthy pressure and and the pressures of I'm gonna put you down and bring do all the things to make myself feel higher. I think there's a difference. Good TV. Pardon? Or to make good TV. Or to make good TV. Yeah. You know, which you know? I think authenticity is important. Like, even how I lead, you know, I'm I'm in their butts. I'm, like, giving it to them, and I'm and I'm press I I put pressure on my teams because I don't wanna accept just whatever. You know? It's like, you guys need to know. There's time restraint. You have five minutes left. Like, you're not gonna make it, like, if you don't move your a*s. You know? And so I think that now it's important. You know? Leadership is such an incredible topic that people are exploring and sharing ideas, and I think that it it the strong person can use that as a flex to be like, I am so incredibly regulated that I'm gonna express myself and also have empathy for the person receiving the knowledge. Yeah. I mean, I like how you put it. I think that both methods can be effective. There's no doubt. It is the more challenging of the two types of leadership to somehow get to excellent results, very high demands, while, leading with some form of love versus some form of fear, anger, and hostility. Both can be affected, but but the former is the harder version, and I believe is, of course, I'll I'll judge it, the morally more right version, better for the world version, better for human beings version. Because by the way, don't forget that while we're making fantastic, you know, five star dishes, we're also human beings living our lives, and it might as well not totally suck. And I and I, you know, it's one of the Shawnisms in my book. Let me save you twenty five years. The ability to stay cool and be kind even amidst the toughest kinds of pressures is a superpower. And I posit that the best leaders are able to do it. And so I've observed, you know, that bad behavior in business start to fall by the wayside while some amazing things are still being achieved. I've observed I don't I I don't know your business, but I would I would guess that in this business climate, the same is true. The same revolution is happening to some degree inside of top kitchens, and I think it should be applauded. I think that somehow the ability to, you know, the last shot in his memory book, maintain top ambition with infinite patience. You know, it's hard for people to square that up, but again, these are tough concepts because that's why leaders are paid the big bucks because it's difficult to manage with both, you know, at Lovesac, our our number one core value is top ambition. Our number five of five core value is love matters. And those, again, hard to square up, but that's why you're paid the big bucks is to the is to navigate this place down the middle where you have absolutely the highest expectations, and you and your team can achieve them under your leadership while somehow preserving the humanity through a lot of self control, a lot of carefully placed words, both terse and loving. And, and, and I think it's a higher form of leadership. I think you said it really well. Yeah. And it's really cool that we have the opportunity to evolve and have some grace around that. You know? Because I think the proceeding leaders probably didn't have enough of these conversations to allow themselves to develop or see that there was another way at those times. So it's really cool to be able to, like, evolve and have great literature like your book. And, you know, I've I've fallen in love with the idea of leadership to be a good leader. Like, I I just it's one of it's one of my outside of cooking, and it's kind of a tandem thing, but I just I love the idea of it, you know, because I think that You should write a book on it. I mean, I think that this %. Yeah. This this genre you're in, and maybe it's out there. I just haven't discovered. I'm sure it probably is. But, like, this genre you're in is such a cool one because so many peep like, everyone eats food, and everyone's seen cooking shows, and everyone kind of understands the dynamic that's happening in these kitchens based real or not real because it's been a prolific, topic on TV and and otherwise. And so and it really is a cool microcosm for leadership because it's not thousands of people necessarily. It's 20 people. And and, of course, it can be a chain of a it could be a lot of things, but I think it's a really cool place to come at from a leadership capacity. I think you should do that. Yeah. You're probably right. You know, it's similarly, I think, you know, I mean, I've come out of, a lot of, like, the I wish I would have done it this way or or that way, you know, and and not done the fear based stuff. And, you know, that was my lived experience. And it's like, I I only knew what I knew at the time, and I'm I'm such a different human. You know? And that's it took twenty years of work, of being of constantly tooling and chipping away and getting to that diamond with all you know? And, I mean, I'm very much very much self made. You know? I came from a blue collar family. I I I've carved out and presented myself with opportunities because I worked for them. You know? And and it's it's an uphill battle to say the least. You know? Yeah. I think it's really, fantastic that you've been able to navigate that and that you're conscious of it. And, look, I think it comes back to our topic today. Right? Besides all of the leadership, besides all the self control, besides, you know, our own higher abilities to manage our anger, frustration while pursuing excellence Mhmm. Is this very simple idea. Smile anyway. You know? You you're feeling terrible, bad day. You're and and and and and, you know, there's tactics, and I'd love to hear if you have any one one tactic I'll share that stuck with me out of one of these books I read, you know, is, like, as a CEO, you gotta be careful not to kinda leave your office to go to the bathroom all stressed out because people take cues just from your body just the way you walk off the office and they, you know, what's going on? Like, someone's getting fired. You know, the economy's going down. Like, sales must be bad. And so and so, you know, their advice in this little leadership book I read was simple. Like, whenever you cross a threshold, smile. Just put it on. And what's funny is, ma'am, it's embarrassing. I'll be at my in law's home watching the Super Bowl, and I'll come out of the pantry and, bang, like, a little smile on the face because I have so much muscle memory Yes. Of I cross a threshold, I smile. And you could call it inauthentic, call it whatever you want, but I don't care. It has become muscle memory, and I think it serves me well because at least I'm not, you know, just grumpy Sean because that's pretty easy as well. I got a lot of women in all the time. Right? Do you have any tactics that have helped you smile anyway amidst all the ups and downs and vicissitudes of life? Yes. The biggest game changer, and it's a very, very, very close second to how passionate I am about food, is fitness. Twenty nineteen, I met this group of women, and they were bosses, CEOs, moms, well-to-do people, and it was the first time that I saw an incredible group of powerful women. I've always been, and I don't regret this. It's not a negative thing. I've always been led by men. Never worked for a female, all the things. And so when I found this group of women, they it blew me away. Then they were so strong, and they were doing their thing. And that changed it for me, and that was 2019. Yeah. And and I and I will never look back. I've prioritized my health above everything about putting on your own face mask Face putting on your own face mask first. And I have a rigorous fitness routine, and I prioritize that over everything. And and everything else has fall fallen in line with that from how I feel my body, how much time I spend in sauna, my cold exposure, my sleep regulation, my aura rings, all the things. I have all the data, and I love it because I find that when I feel good, I my output is good. You know? Wow. That's fantastic. And it's such a good it can be difficult for people when they're in the grind to think, but I I don't have time to work out. Like, who's who who are you kidding? I'm I'm, like, eighteen hour days. I'm in and and listen, I can empathize. There are times in my life that were very unhealthy from that aspect because I was literally sucking air through a straw, just trying to survive Yep. Financially. But on the other hand, when we can find a way to prioritize it, whatever it is for us, and I and I think, you know, working out, staying fit has to be way high up there. And there are probably some other things that we can do, reading, meditating, praying, you know, even entertainment of whatever kind, you know, in my case, dirt biking. You know? But but literally making time for it, getting up at 5AM as I do to go do some of those things, and make a time for it. And and to your point, everything can fall into place even even as I found when things are demanding. And that's listen. It's backwards. It seems antithetical. How can you get more time by spending time? I think it's a lot like a lot of things in life. I think if you want to be happy, go serve people, do things for other people. You want to be happy, do things for other people. That doesn't make any sense. Like, I'm already tight on time. I'm just telling you it's a key to life. And so finding these core behaviors, habits, practices that you can have a little bit of faith in maybe just because, you know, Nyesha said it, right? Like, get a rigorous workout schedule and, and the smiles will come more naturally. Develop some of these core practices, and the smiles will come more naturally. Find alignment in what you get to do for a living. What would you say to people, and we'll wrap up, who, unlike you, never found or haven't found that alignment with their job, let's say? And maybe they're even far into their career. You know? How how can how can maybe they're stuck in their career. You know? What advice would you have for someone who can't get to alignment in that way? Is there any other way that they can hope for more joy. I believe so. You know? And not to put my sister's business out there, but I don't think she would mind if I mentioned this. But I'm just so I'm so proud of her because her and I, this is it's a literal we're we're in it together on a study of this because we're not too far apart in age. And she has always said that, like, oh, I I never found my thing. You know? And and and and she is now finding her thing, and she's blossoming, you know, and caring for others. You know? And it's so beautiful to witness and be a part of and encourage. It brings me so much joy, because I I've spent twenty years just head down at the proverbial cutting board of life just so encapsulated. And, now to be able to share that, you know, with others and share my tools that I've learned, things that have worked, what hasn't worked with her, has been so so so valuable. And the thing that I offered to her was to just start. You know? Just take a step and to if something doesn't work out, like, it doesn't mean that life is over. You know? And and to kinda, honestly, kinda get over the fear of things not working out, I think, is important when people don't find their thing or don't know where to start. Probably generally get caught up in that, like, analysis paralysis thing. And, like, it's okay to, like, fail a lot, you know, and not have things work out. And I think also it's important in my perspective to have a good sort of social community, whatever that looks like for for the individual, you know, whether that's going to volunteer or going to YMCA and picking up knitting, or just doing anything really could lead to sparking something in your brain that you get fired up about, and you're gonna notice it. You know? You I think our bodies are gonna notice that. So I think it's just to find a community around and build around anything. You know? Going out to find a walking club or, as I mentioned, knitting or or what it is whatever it is, if it's a online community. But I think a sense of belonging is really important, and I think a lot can come out of that when different conversations are sparked. I love it. Great advice. I mean, just from this conversation, right, we've talked about the physical, pursuing physical fitness as a path to more joy and fulfillment. We've talked about, the intellectual, being an insatiable learner, both of us, in our own ways. You know? We've talked about now the social. You touched on getting out there and just putting yourself out there and, you know, the spiritual, you know, making room to be introspective and meditative. Finally, just do something. You know? Number one Shawnaism in my book, just do something. In my case, I was 18. I got off the couch, made a big beanbag just because I thought it'd be funny, but I did it. I didn't talk about it. I did it. And now, I get to be the CEO of a public company and have thousands of employees. There's no way. By the way, in the middle of it, ten years in, I didn't ever think that was gonna happen. Wow. And so I would just echo what you said. Like, just take that first step. Just do something. It doesn't have to be starting a business. It could, to your point, be joining a club. But if you feel like too many of those smiling opportunities are forced or even nonexistent, just do something. I love that. Yeah. Well, that's great advice, Nisha. Anything that you wanna get out there in the world? You know, what are you doing now? Where can people find you? What should they be on the lookout for from you? Yeah. Doing some really cool things in the world. These days, I'm gonna have a ton of events, but one that's very exciting is, an event called it's a fundraiser dinner called Chefs Love LA, and that will be February 27. And, it's a benefit dinner for people that were affected by the fires here in Los Angeles. Yeah. So we're bringing an incredible community of chefs together to put on a unforgettable dinner and, really, really stoked about that, so people can come to that. And, of course, we're heading into season four of Next Level Chef where I'm a mentor and a judge, which is the absolute light of my life. I love being a part of this program, and it's, cutting edge. So I hope people can tune in. It's on Fox. And, other than that, you can find me traveling the world. I'll be doing a super cool dinner in Australia coming up as well. And I put on tons of dinner experiences, but all of that information is on my website. It's myfirstandlastname.com. I love it. Yeah. Follow Nyesha as I do on Instagram at n y e s h a, Joyce, j o y c e. Be all over that, and check out our website, naysha harrington dot com. If you're in LA on the twenty seventh, grab a ticket. Support her. Chefs love LA. And, be sure to check her out on Fox's Next Level Chef season four just out. We'll we'll we'll follow it. We'll stream it. Thank you so much to the queen of cuisine, the mentor on Michelin, the doctor of the dish, the ninja, maybe literally herself, Naisha Arrington. Thank you. Absolutely. Absolute pleasure. Thank you. And remember, whatever life throws at you in any situation possible, just smile anyway. It just might save you a chunk off your own twenty five year journey. Of course, like, my trip that you once a year to take my friends away should not be the budget for your bike across America. TikTok has become an aggregator for some of the dumbest human actions. When I won that million, I was 2,000,000 in debt. Barely hanging on.
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