Kyron Horman

Transcript

Welcome to The Inevitable a podcast by motor trend. Hi there and welcome to another episode of The Inevitable. This is motor trend's show about the future of the automobile. Where are we going and how are we gonna get there? This is a show we talk about E. V. S. We talk about cars that drive themselves sometimes we just talk to actors we like which we're doing today and we have Mr Titus Welliver, we had Michael Connelly on, he writes the books Titus Welliver is the actor who has brought the character of Geronimo's bosch, harry bosch to life. This is Ed Lowe. I'm jonny Lieberman. I'm keeping this one brief because we have a lot to talk about with Mr Welliver, please join us. Alright so um first time I met you Mr Welliver was on Spike's car radio that the podcast I do and we turned off the tape machine and we were hanging out talking, it was around thanksgiving or something and you said yeah you know when I was a kid thanksgiving, you know would be like uh you know Marlon, Brando and john Lennon and Miles Davis would come over for thanksgiving and I want to start there because that's the craziest thing like what the way that that that those relationships um sort of came into my life was my father was a painter, Neil Welliver and new york. This was in new york and in philadelphia and in maine where he spent his summers um he was very well known successful american painter, abstract expressionist. But he was also uh an academic. So he ran the graduate school of Fine arts at Yale and then moved from there to University of pennsylvania and was the chair there. So my Godfather was the writer, um, and screenwriter, Terry Southern who wrote dr Strangelove easy writer. And that's where the Beatles connection. Peter sellers connection came in. Terry is on the cover of Sergeant Pepper's in the upper left hand corner wearing a pair of very cool Ray Ban wraparound sunglasses. So as a kid, he was in evidence all the time. My father had art openings, but he was just a guy in a weird way who seemed to have a light around him that attracted people. He was good friends and I had many meals with joe Frazier and Muhammad ali when I was a kid and it was, I never knew what it was gonna be. But as a, as a kid now obviously when it's Muhammad ali and joe Frazier or peter fonda or something like that. Um or one of the Beatles, you're certainly very well aware, but they were all um just regular guys and I think I saw them, you know, in, in a social element where they were completely themselves and it was kind of an interesting, but like for instance, like Miles Davis couldn't have been a regular guy. No, I read his book. Yeah, he wasn't really a regular guy. I mean he was, I don't think that he necessarily loved Children. Um he wasn't like john Lennon or ringo or those guys who were all really kind of family guys and um, but he was always kind when I saw him, you know, you know how you doing little man. Um and his music was on in the house all the time and he was friends with a trumpet player named Raul Gonzales who had been one of the second players and and was in dizzy Gillespie's band. So yeah, those guys are at your house, you grew up in the dinner table at the dinner table. That's what could it be? Something else? Like what, what you guys eating maybe is your mom's a great cook. Like were you guys like, no, my mother, actually, my mother could not cook to save her life. I mean she could mess up a fried egg, but my father could cook. He was, he was a great cook. What are you eating this esteemed whole salmon with like, you know, uh steamed egg with, with black beans and shrimp and you know, he uh, he had kind of traveled all over the world so he would pull these things out of the hat, He would make these massive chinese meals and it would be, it was as good as going to the restaurant, it was in your, in your house and he liked to cook and he did it kind of oddly kind of effortlessly, um, the best, but the best chefs, I remember a friend of mine owns this restaurant providence and I remember we're in his backyard smoking cigars and he's cooking a piece of salmon and uh like he was barely paying attention to it and it was the best thing I've ever eaten, you know, he was with one hand, he was sort of like lifting it a little bit every minute or so smoking a cigar, drinking bourbon and then we served it was I know the guests, I see, I see the guests, I see the salmon on the table and the beans. But what's the, is this like we're talking like is this like a typical suburban rectangular table with like a pullout, big circular, my dad was, he was crazy for shaker antiques, he was kind of obsessed with that. So I remember our, our dining room table had been a shaker ironing table, so it was this kind of, it wasn't like a french country thing, you know, but it was a massive table that had been used as you know, a giant ironing. Yeah, kind of yeah, it was very, very big now just and how old are you? I mean this is your whole life growing up pretty much until I was in my twenties I would say. So you're like, hey Mohammed past the and I ran into him, you know, I saw him a lot as a kid. Um and then I was years ago I was promoting a tv series that I had done for Cbs called Falcone, it was Donnie Brasco the the series. And so we were invited the cast, so all the stars of the shows and things were invited to go to the final four, which was a lot of fun. And at 1.1 of the pr people said, O Muhammad ali is here in the in the box, would you like to meet him? And I didn't say, I said well sure that would be a great honor, I would love that, I'm not going to be like well I know when I was a kid um I would have it in my movie. So literally I was this was you know later in his life, I mean he was still fully compos mentis but he was tremulous and his um his voice was very, very soft and so I was sort of lead over to him and um he, he smiled and shook my hand, how are you? How are you doing? And I said I'm fine, I said you you wouldn't probably not remember this, I said, but um you were friends long long ago with my father and he said who's your father? And I said Neil Welliver and he made that classic face and did that. He went and I said does he owe you money and and he said no, I think I owe him money and we laughed and then he went into this whole thing and it was very emotional, He said, I haven't seen him in years and we had a lot of fun together back in the day and he kept calling him the professor, the professor. Um, and it was, and so then I um, you know, they had a, a stack of photographs of him which he was signing for people and um, I said, could would you sign uh one of those pictures for me? And he said, he said, don't you have one? And I went, well I have mine, but this will be for my son and my eldest son who's was a baby, but it's now 23. So I said, yeah, sign it uh to a man, he said, Oh how old is he? And I said uh, he's about 13 months old and he laughed and he said he won't know who I am. And I went, yes, he will, he will. And he still has, he still has the picture. Unfortunately. Unfortunately. Um, it got a little bit of sun exposure, but you can still see his signature and it's So that was one of those beautiful moments kind of full circle crazy way to grow up. I mean, you know at that time when you were at your house eating like that, you know, probably not even probably the most famous person on the planet. He's 23 because this is during the time when I first met him you know, he and Frazier actually got on and they and they were friends. So joe had a restaurant in philadelphia and this is when my dad was at University of Pennsylvania called Smokin joe's and we would go over there. Um and uh ali was there one time and and as a kid, I remember being perplexed, I was little, I was like 6 87 because you know, here were all these giant posters, it's in the newspaper that they're gonna have their their big fight. And I thought well these guys clearly kinda like each other, which they did and they kept fighting, but it wasn't until uh ali called called joe out called him an uncle tom. And that to joe was something I think that joe always kind of was able to laugh off the kind of ribbing and the ball breaking, but that was that was really calling him out too much because joe was anything but and he was deeply hurt by it and so he went in the ring and he heard ali, you know, if you think about it also, I mean ali truly the greatest joe Frazier, I think people who know boxing recognize him for who he is, but you have, you have a lot of youngsters now they're going to know he was kind of a ham and egger and I was like, no, he was he was a wrecking machine. Yeah. Um Wild, I'll let ed take well I just said like, when you said that it's just been in my head, I'm like, who has thanksgiving with my first miles Davis. But like, and Brando and Lennon like three of the biggest personalities. This weirdly not on your Wikipedia page after this research. So you know, this is, this is ostensibly an automotive podcast. So while we're talking about your formative years and hanging out with these um, these uh celebrities, musicians, uh you know, just athletes, pop culture icons, Your dad's a painter, um your mother of fashion illustrator where the cars coming cars, cars in the seat in the picture at all. At this point in your life, always, always my father was a car guy loved cars. Um obsessed with cars. He had uh, he was really heavy into alphas. So when I was a kid, he always had had an Alfa Romeo had a, an austin healey, which he was actually in a wreck with my older brother, the car. The fact that they walked away from it was an absolute miracle because the car was completely junked. Um We always had, you know, sit trillions uh triumph Spitfires cars. So a lot of foreign cars. And then he had, and then the bronco came out and then, and then he always had a bronco and then when he at his summer place in maine he had to have a four wheel drive. So there was always a bronco there, you know, he had a, he had this giant dodge power wagon um and used to be able to go to a place in Bangor Maine where they sold military surplus vehicles. So we had like three or 4 Willie's jeeps and this uh yeah, we had a duck boat which was was was a personnel carrier and we would drive this Thing into the lake and swim off of it. But you imagine that seeing that thing driving down the road and now they do in the in the trials, right? You do the duck talk, which is a lot of fun. But we had one of those in our house, so it was kind of cool. That's like a 17 passenger, like you can, it's like more like 30. Yeah, so that held several kegs of beer, right? And all your friends and just float around. But I mean the alphas makes sense because like, you know what's the expression like, you know, a real car guy until you've owned an Alfa. You know, he was obsessed with those because I do want an alpha. And remember the old Saabs with, you know, we had a lot of those sobs between the seats that sound that sounded like a lawnmower, which they kind of were, you had to put, it was like a gas and uh it was sort of the same bar and chain oil thing, they had to put in really early ones, they were really loud, you know, they sound like two guys were fighting in the back seat. Um But they were great and then he had he had the when Saab came out with a 99 E. Which was that was when they kind of changed the whole this was in the seventies when when they changed the body shape of them, they still made the 96 that had the old body shape which I was you know with the with the shifter on the column, I was partially those beautiful car. Um But all he was constantly getting I mean he would trade paintings sometimes for cars. You know Mercedes, he had a friend who was in Who was a psychoanalyst who had this, I don't remember what model it was. My father coveted this car to 80 sl like a pagoda or something. You know that was one of the early, it would have been earlier in that I remember that it was white and it was very sleek, it looked like a sport coupe and it was a convertible. Um So he was constantly talking about this car and this guy had a vast collection of my father's artwork but he said to my dad look you know the price of this car that's and one of your paintings at that time because the same value you give me the painting and you can have the car. My father went fine. Yeah yeah. Yeah. I actually at one point when I went to my first car and he went well, you know, save up for your car. It was a Volkswagen beetle FV. It was beat up, I think it was a couple $100. And I said to my dad or maybe you could just do a little drawing for me. And he goes, yeah, that only he can walk into a car dealership with a drawing of mine, it's not going to get you, what are your dad's paintings go for now? Um, I don't know, but they gotta be up there, you know, 100 100 grand north. So obviously the cars made an impression on you. What, what did you drive, taking your driver's license test? And where, where, where were you? I was in Belfast maine and it was a Volkswagen rabbit diesel. And my father had gotten that. It's just kind of a runaround car and he put a reserve tank in the back and you could drive it for 1000 miles before he needed to refill it. And uh, it was my dad kind of trying to discourage me because at that point I had a 72 road runner, which was in mint shape, but you know this, it had a 4 40 with, you know, with a massive carburetor on that car was, it was char truce though with a white vinyl roof, but had the horn. It was a very cool car, but he was trying to sort of dissuade me like that's a greaser car, You don't want to drive that car. Look at the rabbit. I was like, that's a dick car, that's like, right, nobody wants people's grandparents drive that car. I don't want, you know. Anyway, he kind of actually, my one very famous professor, Mario Savio was credited with like starting the free speech movement at Berkeley. He was one of my college professors and I used to hitchhike to school when my car was busted and he would pick me up and he had yellow diesel rabbit and it was hysterical but they were great cars. He loved it. First of all, they were actually quite peppy for a diesel. And then remember the Shah rocco's, those cars were great. I had one of those and remember the Saab sonnet, which was basically it was all, you know, Monaco, plastic and fiberglass, if you hit something like that. Right? Yeah. I had a gold, I had a gold side which I still had it. I mean it was a very very cool car. Dude owed me some money and so I said I break your legs or you give me the sauna. I didn't really say that, but that's how I got the car. I got a handgun and a pair of skis some money. That's a longer story. Well, you know, so where do you go to what you take to N. Y. U. N. Right. Yeah. I know. I mean I took the subway literally walked everywhere. Question I had a but what I did, because I had, my father had seated me some some land, he had a massive parcel of land, about 5000 acres up in Maine. So he seated me land and and the old guesthouse and that became my place. So I needed to have a vehicle there. So I had a um, it was a king cab I wanna say maybe it was a might have been a, no, it was a, I think it was a Mazda. I'm not exactly sure but it was, this would be 1984 and it was probably, it was probably around an 82 or an 83 model but it was jacked up off the ground. My dad had bought it from some guy for for no money whatsoever and I bought it from my father for literally you know like 1500 bucks. But I drove that thing Almost 200,000 miles and I would drive it in. It was it was, it was the Mazda pickup. Yeah, it was one of the many, the midsize the mini. Yeah, but you could literally drive them anywhere. That would, it was like, it was like a goat. I would drive it literally Into water into little bogans um out in the middle of the woods. It never got stuck. It was so light open bed. Well we had one of those funny because we had one of those in college and the red line was like 11 or 12,000 was insane and we used to wait until it rained and we just go mud ball because it was kind of used it like it didn't go very fast and I think it leaked and all these bad things but it existed in my group of friends and we just tear through fields up in farm country like just spraying mud everywhere because the red line was insane leaving first gear Well super. I mean those, I had a, I had a VW that I had a friend who was a real gearhead and he was gifted with vehicles, he could do anything. So I had this Volkswagen that had been my first car and I and I and then I got another car and I wanted to turn it into like a back road buggy. So he chopped the fenders off of it, put these dicks, epic V tread, giant tires on it, put a skid plate on the bottom, It had, you know the T. P. Manifold snorkel thing and then he put a hurst lockout in it and that thing would float over water literally because in New England, when you get the thaw in as or as they call it mud season, it's not, I don't care even if you had a humvee or any of the vehicles today, I can promise you they would not be able to pass through this stuff without sinking and you have to bring in a wrecker, you know in june to get it out. Right right, right. So you studied drama while at N. Y. U. And heading up to your parcel of land in maine what how did you get to L. A. And what did you drive out there? That was a um that was sort of a natural progression of things because I had been working in the theater after I graduated school. Um and it was a very tough time. It was not at all. I mean sort of a wake up although I've never sort of deluded myself that that was how it worked, that people walked up to you on the street and said, hey you know what I mean in my movie. Um but you know I've done a lot of work and had a very strong resume but it was virtually impossible to get agents. You know you do that kind of endless thing of sending out pictures and resumes and you know bears no fruit. And then I was doing the Mamet play american buffalo off broadway was directed by the writer, playwright and writer and and producer frank Polisi who's of the house of cards um fame who was a colleague. And so he was directing this. And unbeknownst to me this guy had come and seen the play and I was working in a bar, I was a bartender and this guy happened to come into the bar. This is probably like three or four days after the run had finished, came in to shoot some pool and he came over and he went, are you tight as well over, Nobody had ever said that to me in my life, you know, and I'm like uh yeah, do I owe you money? Um you know, you have a sister and uh he said, you know, he introduced himself and he said, I'm an agent and I thought I've been down this road before, I know that you know, it's, it was always some sort of cringe e untoward. My wife was trying to actually, she got an agent finally named Guido and you imagine how good Guido was as an agent, which is, you know, well I'm going to stereotype this particular guido well, you know, he was not good. My wife is not that she's a lawyer now Guido destroyed her in the business. His other client was a guy named crime. Both the crime clown, jesus christ. Yeah, you can't make this stuff up. No real judgment shoutout to crime bow because I'm going to do a podcast and I want you to come on and tell me all about Guido and crime bo. I think there's a mini series crime, crime crime clown and he would, he would do like true crime stories dressed as a clown, don't even, I'll tell you it's amazing, I don't want to talk about myself anymore. Now we're talking about crime. Uh no, so this guy turned out um that he was legitimate and he had a small talent agency and a very successful modeling agency and he represented some some of the big models of the eighties and nineties. Anyway, he was legit. He sent me out on an audition and this is the, this is the goof of all goofs. It was my first audition and I got the part and it was a small walk on part and uh at that, you know, a big studio movie called navy seals, the film ultimately bombed. Um, I don't think it's anybody's fault. It was just, it was a timing thing. Now that being said, it was not, you know, it was not the Godfather, but um, but it got my, got my, my foot in the door and I started, you know, I'm just sort of working incrementally and then I did a couple other things, I did the little part in the doors and then I was cast in a, I played this cop in New Haven. I'm Ace Jim Morrison. I had like four scenes in the original film, but they, that that whole new Haven part was, was a much broader part of the, of the film. But yeah, I ended up, I was supposed to work four days, I was contracted for four days, but because of scheduling things constantly changing. I made a fortune doing that film because they would send me back, I'd fly me to L. A. Put me up? No rehearsals? Nothing they go, you know, I'd sitting in a hotel for two weeks and they go, we're gonna fly you back. So they gotta pay you for that time, contractually. So I would go back to new york and sit for a couple of weeks back and forth, back and forth. And so in the interim, I was cast in this uh TNT movie called The Lost Capone with eric roberts, Adrian pasdar and Allie Sheedy directed by john gray. And um and it was and it actually did really well. And um that kind of moved me, I had a pretty significant part in that. And so so navy seals was like, what, 88 89 or something? And you get your sag card through that, like that's like you land like literally like bang, here I am. That's why I said that the, excuse me, Goofball goes to get the first thing you try out. Unheard of and I didn't, you know, but that was the first and last time I ever happened, Maybe one other time with David Milch and steven Bochco. But um so it was kind of, I kept this guy that I was working with said you got to, you're gonna have to go to L. A. There's just not. And what was, so you, you grew up with, you know, all over the east Coast and N. Y. U. You know broadway? What what do you what do you how do you feel about L. A. Before you moved, did you care that much? Well I look you know I became an actor because I grew up watching films and I loved films and I realized that you know my my thing that sort of broke my heart was I grew up on a steady diet of you know Sidney lumet film. So my fantasy was well I'm just going to get to stay in new york, I'll do theater and then I'll go do a movie with Sidney lumet friends for Coppola or Woody Allen, that's what I wanna do and stay here. And then I went to Hollywood and of course you know the first L. A. Yeah Matlock was my first, I got I got here this is great with Tony todd, you know Candy man, he's done many other things but um and it was, come on, you livin the dream, come on. It was very you know, I have to say um I was like the guest guy and matt lock ended up representing me. I was I was in a in a dirty narcotics squad and I got framed for a murder of one of one of the guys in my squad. And Andy Griffith was this really lovely guy. Um And I was I was you know I grew up watching the Andy Griffith show, I was 28. Um He was very gracious and uh he was very sweet when we did a rehearsal and we were sort of going backwards, and after, after we, we did the rehearsal, we're getting ready to shoot, he said, you're a new york actor, aren't you? And I went, yeah, anyway, I can always tell, and I said, oh, because of my accent, I've worked very hard to try to get rid of that. And he went, no, because you're prepared and you know what you're doing? I thought, you know what, I could quit now. Yeah, you could also write a book, just of like, meetings with famous people, like, like, yeah, yeah, you've achieved some stuff too, but like, like ali Sheedy to who was great, you know, I just worked with Anthony Michael Hall, so I've kind of run the gamut now, I know all those guys, molly Ringwald, Emilio and, and Judd nelson, We just had Anthony Michael Hall on, on bosch legacy. Seriously, we're going to get to that. Great. Yeah, so let me just, because I've seen your more recent stuff, what were you being type cast cast as, as a young man. Yeah, I mean, they wanted me to kind of, so I did this Capone thing where I was, you know, doing al Capone's brother and I got pretty hefty for that, and that's the thing is when you have Idols, like Brando and de Niro do all this crazy stuff, physically not the right thing to do when you're a young actor, you don't go from like oh yeah, I was like the leading man thing all of a sudden, you know I've become like the Sydney Greenstreet Hunt's Hall, everybody wanted me to play to play those kind of characters and ironically mostly like new york guys who talk like this, how you doing Joey bag of doughnuts, this kind of thing and I thought I I don't want to do this but I wanted to work so I just kinda I wrote it out and I remember um my uncle Terry saying to me look you know This is how it goes and what you're gonna have to do is you're just gonna have to ride it and ride it and I go yeah I don't want to resume of you know I played 40 Gangsters and that's what I'm going to be relegated to, is playing these roles but always always like italian like mafia types, just tough guys, tough guy things and really where that where there was a departure, I mean I was doing other stuff but I I went into I had a meeting with David Milch steven Bochco and Mark Tinker, they were casting the second season of NYPD Blue and I thought oh I'm gonna get to go in and play some cop, you know this is right in my wheelhouse, what was the role of a trauma surgeon. So I immediately said to my then manager, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna they're not gonna cast me in this role, They don't see me that way. And I don't want to waste a meeting with Milch and Bochco for something that I'm not gonna cast on so well that's they know your work, that's what they want to see you for. So I kind of combed my hair and wore my reading glasses and a button down shirt went in, did the audition, it went well and there was a pause afterwards and normally you go, okay, thanks, have a good day. And David Milch goes, um uh would you like to play this part? And of course I say uh yeah, very much so. Oh, the part is yours really uh do you think that I would make that up just to to be funny? No, sir, not at all. So, and I'm looking at Tinker and Bochco and they've all got smiles on their faces. So of course, well thank you. Well, we'll see you on the set. And as I'm getting towards the door, milk goes, don't forget to call your mom and dad. And that was the first of that's where that relationship started. And we went on to do NYPD Blue in Brooklyn South and and Deadwood and Big Apple and you know, he's David Milch is a surrogate father to me. And I mean, you know, I think I first really became aware of you as an actor was dead, would you played that road agent character? And that was I mean you were like uh a cast comprised of terrifying individuals. Like you were the most terrifying until her showed up in season two. That was that guy still scares me was great. Yeah, he was he was like, I mean that I mean talk can you talk about Deadwood for a little bit just to jump ahead a little bit because I mean what a role and what a series it was like lightning in a bottle. There's only two seasons and so many great actors insane, you know, and you guys who you know who we would get actors that would come in had feature career, you know, all these people that you would recognize from other stuff and obviously the great Ian Mcshane to work with him for me was a clinic and so I just kept my mouth shut and just watched him all the time. Gerald McRaney, you know, Powers Booth Alice Krieger. I mean it was a nonstop Yeah, well, you know, not to mention the you know, the regulars, Earl Brown Sean Bridgers and who you can find so many guys who like to swear. Well there's a lot more than that, but but but like yeah, it was yeah, it was so so okay Mcshane, I mean I remember him, I think that again where he stood out to me before Deadwood was in sexy Beast, like Prince of Darkness, you know, like he was evil character, terrifying and and what's he, what's that like to, you know, have a coworker, like it's gonna be he's I mean, he's you know, I because my mother watched, she was big on the brit shows and so I was kind of raising and he had a show called Lovejoy where he was this rare antiques dealer who also solved mysteries, but he also did a lot of films. I mean, Ian's very prolific guy, you know, I think Sexy Beast and Deadwood brought him much more. Although I have to say Lovejoy was on A and E. So, but he was like, I mean, just he was so good at being a bad guy, you know, I mean, he talented Swearingen was was a different thing. And look, the truth matter is that that character was was Milch's clearly Milk's favorite to write for. David was exercising a lot of monologues. He had the stuff, the great monologues, I mean, you know, he'd be, you know, somebody to have a woman performing fellatio on him while he's talking to and you know, dead end hands decapitated head. Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to be clean, you want me to use. I know a lot, you know, I remember saying to my mother, I said, check out this, you should check it out because she knew and she knew Milch turned out that Milch also knew my father from back in the Yale days because my dad was good friends with robert, penn warren and Mark Strand, the poet. And so they, they traveled in all the same circuits and you should definitely um if you haven't read uh David Milch's book, life's work, I highly recommend it. It is um you know, even if you've never met the man, if you've never watched a show that he is written, um the depth of his story. Um and and it is not for the faint of heart is um like everything that he writes is is genius and it's a beautiful story, but I digress as far as that goes, but that, that was an amazing work experience and it was, and it was difficult, it wasn't hard for me not because I'm, you know, superman, but I had worked with David. David has a very specific way of writing. So you might get a first draft of something, but then it's gonna go, I would always say I'm not learning those lines, that hasn't been Milch yet, because I could always tell what was staff writer stuff and what was Milch and that's not to belittle the staff guys because they were more than k but there's, there's an iambic pentameter to all of David's writing and that's a difficult way to work when, you know, you literally don't have pages for the next day and then you hear that the fax machine, you know, back then when it was like would roll up and you had to like here you here you write it was it was hard. It was like on parchment paper um getting and David's dialogue. You know, you have to be letter perfect. You can't remember guys improvising, I won't name this actor, but we're doing a tv series and this guy had been a fairly big film star and we're doing a scene together. This is on another show, Big Apple and he's just making it up on the fly. Doesn't clearly doesn't know his lines. And so we can't get a complete take because I'm waiting to to respond. Interject with my dialogue, which is David's dialogue and he's going off on attention. And uh so there's a cut. And David comes over and and he says uh how are you today? And he goes, yeah I'm fine, I'm fine. He goes, did you have a good breakfast? I I did what what did you have? Just if you don't mind me asking if I had a burrito? And did you have coffee? I did I did do you do you put cream and sugar and the like no, no no, I just like it black. And he goes that's good. So you're feeling good. You're nourished your brain has been fortified with some caffeine. So basically there's no reason that you're having the problem. Do you not like the dialogue? No, I love the dialogue. That's good because really that's what you should be saying. Not the things that you're saying, that's not now, what you're saying is great for another show, but not for this one. So do me a favor and just say it the way it's written. And I thought, you know, I thought this dude is gonna die on the next episode. Uh No, he didn't, he didn't, he made it, he made it through the show. But it was one of those things another well and this guy was like a like a known kind of tough guy actor. Um but you know, the subtext of what he was basically saying is you know, this isn't some other dips**t network thing, we're trying to make something that's substantive here. And so I know that you can pull that off when you're working with other people because of who you are, but I don't care who you are, I want you to I brought you in because I think you're a talented guy but show me the respect of of doing the dialogue and another quick little anecdote relates to Milch and Bochco was this show. I did Brooklyn South, we it was a large ensemble show and there were a couple of disgruntled actors that sort of felt that they should be at the forefront of everything and that they were really the stars, but that was clearly not the case in this. And so there was a lot of like back talking, you know, just complaining and nasty stuff and the process was difficult because it was difficult but it wasn't that they were just going like always whining about this stuff. So one day we're all sitting and we were aware of it but somebody had clearly dimed them out so we're sitting in a circle and and Milch and Bochco walk in which they would do with some frequency. Hey, how's everybody doing? Great, great, how are you? And uh Milch says you know that's the great thing about doing a cop show. You got some actor things they know better or or they're you know they're they're bad talking the whole process of everything. You know the next episode, they're the first cop through the door and they left their vest in the trunk of the car and then he walked out which nowadays we go mic drop. Yeah and you saw, you could see the culprits. There was you know, out of the lineup, there were two faces that went from two magenta. Right? Anyway, so I got, I wanna go over the place with this, you're dead wood is like that's like 2000 4, 4003, 2004 to 4 2005 and 63 series of three years. I got I drive it down there in the twilight zone for in 2003 and this was like the notable one after that that I took down like first of all this crazy both a crazy film and your tv resumes even even now. Earlier I got a ton of questions because you've been on from Matlock, these are just the notable ones that resonated with me who was born in the seventies high school in the nineties. Right? So Matlock la la Beverly Hills nine oh 21. Oh yeah. I mean I was really hoping see that that showed up on Wikipedia for years. I've been trying to escape that. No I I did do it. Here's a funny story about that real quick. So my manager then says you gotta I go I don't wanna do that show. It's so fap it it's stupid and you know well you know what, it's a popular show, you do it, it'll be a good thing you'll get seen. So I play something like dick alcoholic guy. Go on to do it. They're lovely, they're all lovely. And I worked mostly with luke Perry and god rest his soul. He was a very sweet guy, stepped on my foot at a bar once and he was very he bought me a beer. Very cool guy. Yeah he was a very cool guy. Yeah he yeah he but he was so it wasn't a bad experience. So anyway the thing comes it comes out I forget about I don't even watch it. I get a call from my father. Hey buddy, how you doing? I'm good dad, what's going on? He goes that 9076 thing you did. Oh uh Beverly Hills nine oh two and uh whatever it's called. Uh Yeah, I I watched that last night. Oh, okay. Yeah. Um you were good thanks. Thanks. He goes, yeah, do yourself a favor. Don't ever do anything like that again. I and I say why? And and uh I know dad, I I have to pay my rent. You know, I've got to, I've got to do these things. He says, if you need money that bad, I'll send it to you. And I, and I say by the way, you know, I don't look, it's not what I aspire to, but you know why not do it? And he went, don't ever do it again because it's bad for your soul and he was not getting and that's that's crazy because like most parents, most parents, my father was like, he was like walter kurtz in apocalypse. Now it was like peak, peak of popularity for this series and like, but it wasn't a good show, artists, art and commerce. I'm actually curious what does something if you, if you care to disclose that was the one that was a guest appearance. Yeah. I would say that's probably The top of the heap of doing a commerce job. Really? What would that I mean? Top of the show was probably like 2500 bucks. Yeah, I don't think it was that much, but that to me was like two months 50 grand. I was like, yeah, I'm getting extra mexi melts tomorrow. This question, do you watch yourself? Do you watch your shows? You do movies? You do not often, sometimes I do, obviously with bosch, I have a different invested interest in the show, so if there's a scene that I'm particularly um want to see the outcome, I I kind of learned my lesson to to look at that, but the other lesson that I learned years ago, I worked with a director who had me do a scene not on bosch, on had a recurring character on a show called remain nameless. Um had me play this great scene, but three different ways. And I and I thought, well that's very generous of this time, because this was network television, but I said to him at the end of the day um he said no, no, no, they're all all three great and I got, well they're all just very different. Um but obviously they would not work together, they would not cut and he went, no, no, no show comes out and it was one of the few times at that time and I watched it and that scene came on because I was curious, I thought I want to see what actually makes it completely, it was a hodgepodge. He had cut them all together and I was mortified because it didn't work and it was of no fault of my own. And Ian Mcshane actually once said a great thing, we had done the scene, I said uh I wanna I'm actually gonna check the dailies out of that scene because it was, I was very excited and I felt like it was a great scene we had, are you gonna watch? He goes, no love, I don't watch dailies if I if I can't cut him, I don't want to watch them. And I went, yeah, okay, so what I learned to do was edit within camera, so basically do the performance that I wanted to do and not put a take out there of something that could be edited or used that I would be unhappy with. So it was an enormous list. Yeah, sure I can, I wanna I don't wanna go through them all. No, I know, it's ridiculous. I just, I just want to read real quick Bad Guy Lost. That's like you know Man in Black, Well that was a great experience because that show, I loved that show already. So when I was asked to come and do that because you, I was a long time ago, but you came in season three, season four, it might have even been five. Okay, okay, so crazy Tales from the Crypt Ex NYPD Blue Nash Bridges Star trek again, let's take that one off. Although I love Cheech he's my boy, I just I mean I was just starting to Star trek, Voyager two. Yeah, yeah, that was very cool with john Savage. In fact it was a season finale and a season opener and we were to kind of crazed Starship Guys and you know, john Savage is one of the reasons I became an actor. I saw him and Kenneth Macmillan and robert Duvall in a production of american buffalo directed by ulu Grosbard and that's why I became an actor when I saw that production as a little kid, it blew my mind and I actually said to my father and I was little, I said if I was ever going to be an actor, that's the kind of acting that I would want to do. And I've recently become good friends with robert Duvall and we had that we had that conversation, what did he think? He, you know, bobby's, he's an amazing cat, I mean he is, he is literally my hero. I mean it's robert Duvall and to share my food, hands down my two favorite actors that I've learned so much from and and McQueen, but I mean pound for pound um robert Duvall I think is probably one of the most brilliant, but he does not take a compliment. He immediately deflects it by shooting a compliment back at you, you know, and I told him and he's like that's a great story alright, he just wants to move on. But he also remembered oulu in the production and I had john Savage on bosch legacy last season um and build a vein, you know, it's kind of cool to get to get your heroes to come and you can, because you're an ep on legacy, so you can kind of do that, we'll try to steer steer it sometimes, but who's going to say, no, William Devane? No, I don't think so. He's not relevant really. Yes, he is. And nobody said that when we got to, even we were, I mean, I would I I had to literally kind of pull myself together the first day that I worked with him because to sit across the table from a guy like Bill Devane who's lovely, fantastic actor, but it's intimidating and uh so I had to kind of, you know, you still get intimidated, I don't want to say intimidated, I should say it more in awe, not, you know, intimidation more feels like someone means you harm for me in that way, but I was just, I just there was so much that I wanted to, but you know, eventually we got to that conversation after we did our first scene, we were sitting and shooting the breeze on the side and, you know, affable, lovely guy. And of course, you know, I I didn't go in there, like I was at a comic book convention, remember that Chris Farley remember when um you guys made that record and on the front of it, had you walking across the street in London, it's called Abbey Road. Yeah, that was really cool. It's funny, I I brought it up just because, you know, I I I've done a lot of stuff in my career, I made a lot of famous people, blah, blah, blah, but like, a few months ago, because a year ago, I can't remember Leno had me on, it was gonna be just me and him and I know j we've all done stuff with jay in the car world, um you know, I podcast with him all the time, but for some reason I woke up that morning and I was just like white, I was just like, so nervous and I got there and he's like, hey, how you doing? And I'm like, Jack, I tell you, I am so nervous about this, He's like, what are you nervous for? And I'm like, I don't know, maybe it's just me and you? One on one, I don't know. And he goes, yeah, when I met Gorbachev, I was, and I was like, okay, I'm just it's just j you know, But it was, it was, I was really, I had like an hour, I totally good, I was nervous when I went, I went on and did the jays the garage with J and, and I've never met him before, we have a lot of mutual friends there, or you can have the best time jay is just he's so much fun and and even when I got there, you know, he's so great, but I just kind of had to go and we're sort of improvising the whole set up to the thing and I thought, oh, and he's, he's, he's, I mean, you can't say one take, he's no take, he just goes and doesn't matter actually have a jay leno story I can contribute. You've done well. So, Carroll Shelby, Carroll, Shelby dies and everybody said, and we're like, hey, we got a whole archive over Carroll Shelby stuff, we should do a book, do a book. You know, I was at the time, which became editor in chief of motor trend's like, do the book. I was like, oh, okay. Uh and I think we can get jay leno to do the forward to the intro. Okay, So, um I got jay's number was like, yeah, we'll see, we'll see, we'll see if we do it. So I call him and he's like, hey, yeah, yeah, yeah, Carroll Shelby in truck. Sure, okay, happy to uh how about you write it? Uh you got a recorder, let's go, this is, this is kinda what I want to say. I was like, so he spilled his beans. And I was like, yeah, so you just write something and let me see it and we'll go from there. I was like, oh my God, I got like, ghost right for his columns and a lot of some of his comedy writing to, right? So I was like, oh my God. So I write the thing and then I call him back and he's like changes one thing, it's fine. It's great capture. It was like yeah, it's all here. It blows my mind. I mean his, when he starts to talk about vehicles, he's, you know, he's a savant, he'll literally be like, well the carburetor, you know the hand, something about that and back then, you know, there was a certain viscosity with the oil that had to be going into the, you know, I'm literally sitting there just going, wow, that's not first of all, you gotta do a little higher. He told me a very funny thing that we were talking about. He goes, yeah, so you know you do the town, you did these boston movies. He's like, you know, you get recognized when you're in boston. I go yeah, yeah guys will shout from the car, They'd be like, hey titus how are you doing? He's like, yeah, he goes, you had a guy come up to me here one time and he's like uh oh we had a conversation, he's like, oh yeah, you're from boston. Yeah, because yeah, so cool, you're not a dick. And he and he goes that really kills the conversation. I was like, yeah man, J is like jay is kind of like young Al pacino with a boston accent alright, you kinda like go to like serpico meets jay leno and then that's how you do, that's how that's how I would advise someone that you're actually good at imitating. I just do that. Yeah, but he was a gas, I mean, he made me laugh a lot. It was hard because I was trying to be the kind of the straight guy in the whole thing. Um, so to his question, how did um because you've done, you did, you did uh you did, because I may be gone, you did the town you've done and you did uh Yeah, so connection and uh it's, is it also, but it's not because he's a he's a he's a bastard guy, right or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Well, he and Damon are both, they're both from, from, they came up together and so they do stuff, they've done stuff together and I, you know, was had the great fortune to do, gone, baby gone and then be aspect to do town, Did Argo and that by then, bosch was, had, had kicked in and so my availability was kind of limited. Um and I did live by night, I did too, little bits and it ended up on the cutting floor, went on the cutting floor, but in sort of a montage sequence. Um but I, you know, I have to say pound for pound. Um and I've worked with a lot of great directors, Ben is, you know, at the absolute top of that list, I he's is um what's, what's good about him? What's, well, first of all, he's he's an extraordinarily intelligent guy. He's well read and he's an observer. I mean, he's a guy who and he absorbs things through the process of what I don't know, osmosis, but he's extremely well prepared and he knows exactly, I mean he's got the entire movie in his head and because he's bright and has paid attention, he has a kind of encyclopedic knowledge of the process of making a film. And I watched him not argue points but discuss points with cinematographers like bob Elswit and um and uh john toll, I mean, these are, these guys are like titans heavy hitters, but they, but they respected Ben because he wasn't some dips**t actor who's like, what I really want to do is direct, you have to have tremendous respect. First of all, he's a great writer, as is matt. Um and Ben is a great actor, but he's a he's also a pleasure. He knows when when to step in, when there might be help or an idea, but for the most part, Ben cast people and then he sort of says, well you got the job, do your thing, what do you want me to remember one point? He said to me, I went, okay, he goes, well, we're moving on, he goes, were you not happy? I go, no, no, no, I'm fine, are you okay? And he goes, hey, I would never do that disservice to another actor, he goes, because you know, I've been doing this a long time and you don't want to ask where he goes, if you want one, that's fine, always. But he goes, I will never, I would never leave you hanging. He's like, so, um, you know, that's good, but he would also come up with a great little tweaks and suggestions things, you know, one wouldn't necessarily consider because he's because he is an observer and he's also an actor, he understands that process and so, you know, I can't say enough good things about him. So I have a, I want to get through just a couple of things and then go to bosch and then of course the car stuff. But what's your what do you think your ratio is of um good guy protagonist? Good guy, bad guy. Are you like 1 to 123? Good guy, the bad guy, You played more heavy, you played more heavies in your career, which you prefer. Heavies are fun to be honest with you. The heavies are really, they're they're always kind of more interesting because they operate on a system that has no rules, they do whatever they please, but that's just to get to jump to bosch. I mean, he's sort of a heavy, he's an anti hero, right? I mean, he's and that's what's great about harry bosch, is that he's that he's not some vanilla dude, you know, he's a very strongly realized anti hero. He now he's he's a guy who operates outside of the system, meaning he can be circuitous in doing stuff, but it's always in the, in the service of right? So he's got this flawless moral compass, but he would never beat a confession out of someone or plant evidence on someone. So he's a righteous dude and that makes him a lot of fun. But he's tough. I mean he's tough, he doesn't care. You know, that's I think that's what honestly what hooked me just was the first episode of the first season is, you know, your boss is immediately accused of planting evidence. And and and typically when you do an antihero cop show, they do plan evidence. You know what I mean? It's like here's like, but he's not like squeaky clean either. It's really went up to the line and it was really fascinating. I mean, aside from all the other stuff that sucked me into the just the fact that starts in Echo Park where I used to live, like all that, what like it's a show about, you know the city, I mean, you know, and it's not like it's not like a michelin guide, all the food, you know, you know, I mean, we we always go to the good to the great bars and the good food spots. You know, we had Connolly in and we were talking we brought that question up about how do you, you know, how do you pick your restaurants to put in the books and the shows and then Ed said give me give me what's a good cop place and he goes birds and I go, okay, that's kinda on my way home. So I went there and I sit down, there's a detective and a cop having lunch and then weirdly Jonah and Christopher Nolan right there really experience. I know Jonah pretty well. So it was funny. It was pretty funny. But what's the french dip joint? Oh nice. I love ever had Connolly was there. So I want you guys, you had Nixon which is another the frolic room. I went to USC and I came in in the, in the nineties and I just all the places like the pantry. I tried to hit them all. That's just like I want to, I came from a suburb. I wouldn't hit all these like old school like this. It was awesome. And so when I just started reading all Connelly's books after we had him on them. Like this is this is like a catalog now. A lot of them aren't here anymore. Unfortunately he started the books way back when But the only the last question I have just because again your career spans like tv and movies but matt locke through bosch legacy right in between. I call us some of them just L. A Law. NYPD Blue Law and order S. V. U. N. C. I. S. Law and order L. A. C. S. I. You put on cop shows. Coast Coast. Um, the only thing I can, you know, you're not old enough to have been on Hill Street, Hill Street Blues and I think The Shield might be the only one that you, that you of all of the big questions, what is America's fascination with these kinds of shows? Like why do you think people like their successful, like Dick Wolf? Like these, these things like why? It's kind of hard to say. I mean, and, and, and people will watch good cops and bad cops. It's just, I don't think it's just specific though to the United States. I mean, look at a lot of the french new wave stuff guys like the films of Melville, like the circle rouge and then flick and, and the samurai, there's, there's a fascination I think with both Gangsters and with cops and then the kind of in between because the Shield was hugely successful. But that character Mackey was a scumbag. I mean, he was, I remember reading the pilot script, it was originally called the barn and, and uh, and I, you know, he, it was really hard to find anything redeemable in that, in that character. Now, Chiklis did a great job. I mean, he, he brought in some humanity to the brutality and the corruption of that character which made him very interesting to watch. And I, I think, you know, a great part of the success of that was, you know, chick is a great actor and he was surrounded by very, very CCh pounder too, you know, you know, walt Goggins and a lot of really good, you know, but it's funny because and it goes back man too and they'll watch anything, you know, they'll watch dragnet which was like an L. A. P. D. Recruiting film, but they'll watch Car 54 where are you? And then you got, you have the genius of Bochco that basically took the genre and turned it on its head not once but twice with Hill street Blues. That show came out and Stephen said to me, he goes it was dead like he goes it wasn't even the top 25 nobody was watching it. And we thought were dead. And he at that time, I think Brandon Tartikoff was running the show and he went to Bochco and said, I don't care about the numbers, I'm gonna give it another shot. It came back and people it caught on and people watched it and we know that that show went on but it completely redefined the genre. Then you cut to, he does L. A. Law, which was considerably lighter fare, but still Bochco master of the ensemble show and then he does NYPD Blue, which completely turn it on his head language nudity, I mean, yeah, but also wild stuff that couldn't be that dealt with racism and sexism and and abuse and all that stuff. Um people just like it, they just like, I mean I like it. I I watch, you know, stuff on netflix, that's, you know, looks good. And then I go, oh it's badly dubbed, I don't want to, but I'll hang in for it. I was, I was trying to find a theory that maybe someone was going to suggest that it's part of the, I don't know whether it's a, it's a side effect of or a part of this uh military prison industrial complex that we have going on where you know, like what does, it was like one out of every four americans has been in prisoners. I mean it could be that, I think it also has a lot to do with like a lot of people feel their life is out of control and you know, you know, criminals assert control, cops assert control. So it's kind of a way of like making sense out of day to day stuff, definitely entertainment, you know, and then and there are clear rules, that kind of thing. But you know, it's just real quick though. Back to what you were saying about history blues when Connolly was in here, he brought a bullet and he said that bullet, that's my all time favorite film. Yeah. And he was saying that bullet was interesting because or it was, it was groundbreaking because for the first time he had a cop who wasn't dressed like a schlub, you know, he actually wore a turtleneck and before that cops were bungling guys in trench coats, like, you know, stealing apples from little girls or whatever and, and I thought that was really, I never thought about that. I always, you know, I look at it through the car lens, I'm like, it had a great chasing, you know, well it's the, it's the original, but if you look at that, I mean that was all by design and that was McQueen McQueen, you know, originally that character, if you read the book, that character is not at all like frank bullitt of, of the film at all, but in the film Jazz club and he's wearing, you know, he's wearing italian suede shoes, he wanted to, he wanted to wear these love beads that he was very into and he, he didn't want to do the film because he was worried about how, how the younger generation was going to interpret that because they were, you know, cops were the pigs, they were bad, he's the man and he managed to slip that in, you know, he's wearing the blazer and the black turtleneck, he's driving the car. Yeah, he's got Jacqueline Bisset, you know, robert Duvall is in that, he's a cab driver, he's got like one scene, you know, and then, and he and robert Vaughn were really, really good friends from the magnificent seven, so they just kind of put that, you know, he and von would go back and rewrite their stuff and McQueen was known, um and this is, if anything I would have learned from watching McQueen films is he didn't want to talk a lot. There's a level of economy, you know, to share more funny in a lot of ways is the same way, very, very economical with movement, with dialogue. But they say stuff with their face and with their eyes, that's very, very clear. And you, I mean again, I've studied you inbox, but you do that in bosch, I mean like I'll never uh it was a season, I'm gonna make some places the, I guess it was season seven, uh when the little girl dies because of the fire doors locked. Your I mean, that's the best thing I've ever seen an actor do. Like that was the rage, didn't say a word and just like your cheek was like twitching, it's crazy, you know? Well that's you know what the truth matters, that all that stuff comes from the creation of Michael Connelly, that character when you read them on the page and I don't embody the physical idea of who, but Connolly doesn't really describe his physicality and he's got a mustache kind of tasseled hair and in the earlier books, he's kind of wiry from when he was a tunnel rat. So that was a thing to kind of overcome. But whenever Mike and you know, look, it's a, it's a truly collaborative relationship, but I always said to him, I don't wanna, I don't want to deviate from the character of the books because that's what, that's what he works. He's it's not broke, there's no need to fix it. And I think we were fortunate because we were at amazon and they were, it was the beginning of the studio's coming together. They had the intelligence to delegate to creative people and to and to not treat it as a straight kind of standard form of, you know, constant micromanaging. You got eric Overmyer who's a brilliant writer, you've got Connelly who's a brilliant novelist and screenwriter turns out lee Malone and then you had, you know, well in braga, you know, who was, who was um did all those Michael Mann films, did The Insider Heat and that's that shows, I mean, Peter comes with that. You see the relationship between heat, especially in like, you know, the way boss is done and using using L L A. The way it's actually laid out, you know, the distances between things and like, you know, it's just, you're not like in venice and suddenly you're in Glendale, like there's a time and also that's, you know, and Henrik Bastin also who, you know, he had wanted to do it forever. I mean, his his son is named Harry after bosch, so, you know, to have to have a guy come, it's not often that you'll meet some, you know, they read one book and they kind of go, hey, I want to get the right, so you know my talks about his meeting with, I think they did a deal that afternoon or something because Henrik knew, you know every every comma every period in the in the books. And did you when you did, you just gotta riven by the way, Sorry, how did you get we'll get to that when you when you got cast for the pilot? Had you read any of these books? I'd read one of his books and had been many, many years before I was it was it might have been the second book, um not Black Echo, but um concrete is the third. Yeah, I mean to be honest with you, I couldn't remember at that time because it was one of those things where, you know, Yeah. And but of course what I didn't know was that my younger brother had an encyclopedic knowledge of, he had read all he read every obsessed with Connelly's writing and the nice end of that story is that they got to meet and that from my brother was, you know, a huge experience, but I called him up and I said we're shooting the ship and I've just read this fantastic script, it's called bosch. And he went, wait, I mean harry bosch and I went, oh yeah, you know, and he went titus I've read who are you? Who are they considering you for? And I said harry bosch. He went, are you kidding me? Your brother? I don't know that. Yeah, yeah, I had to win him over. I think he was also, I had the same reaction when I read the pilot script. I wanted it so desperately, but I haven't been in this business long enough. I thought, you know there and which is what they were doing, you know, it's sort of the detail of the star name and everything. But you know, mike had final approval of who was going to be bosch. It was, it was a no go. So I was very fortunate that and the pilot already had had because okay, so I went back and I read, I'm now in the 10th book. So the bosch in the book is he's a tunnel rat from Vietnam. It's updated to special forces from Afghanistan, right? And that had already happened for the pilot. We, there was one of the things we talked about was the fact that and I felt that was important because his military service is such a big part of him in the books. I said, you know, obviously we're not doing a period piece. So we can't, we can't do the Vietnam thing, but let's let's keep keep that as an integral part, so interesting mechanism and Overmyer and Connolly came up with this idea that Harry's a guy like most of these guys, they don't like to talk about their their service and things like that. It's not that they're that it's a ptsd thing or so it's something they don't really talk about unless they're sitting around with other guys who they serve with, remember that time, blah blah blah. Um So it was a genius move to be able to give some backstory as to who bosch was by having the honey Chandler character questioned him on the stand and that's how the audience it was. It was revealed to the audience. She says, oh, how many people have you killed? And and says, I don't know. And she goes, what do you mean? You don't know? And he goes, I don't know, um well, how is that? He says, well, I was in the military, an army and she goes, oh, infantry. And there's a hesitation. He says, special forces and he realizes that he's what's happening there. And she says, so really, technically you are highly trained professional killer and now we have that. And then because that's what are you gonna do, you can't have carry in a bar with the anti worshiping character where she's like, so and he's like, well, you know, when I was in the first gulf war and when I was in Afghanistan? So we we've reluctantly we've we've allowed that stuff to come out with Harry being reluctantly sharing that information, just just to give more props to the show and I guess when we had Connolly on, you know, he was he admitted he goes, look back when I first started like, you know, characters weren't that great. So, for me watching the show, like seeing honey Chandler fully fleshed out, because there is a scene in the books where bosh and the rookie copper in bed and she's like, what's that scar, which you've seen a million times, you know, I don't want to talk about it flashback to Vietnam, but this was it was, you know, but every character gets fleshed out, you know, we talked about, you know, Irving in the books is one dimensional, not even to, you know, and yeah, like it's incredible. Well, we were when we've been able to, within, within the structure of the thing talk about, there was the there was the season where that character um oh God, I can't remember his name, there's so many of them, but anyway, he they reopened the case because they say that bosch planted evidence on this guy and the guy was clearly a bad guy, he murdered this young woman, but there was a pennant that was in question. What ultimately is revealed at the end is that Irving, Irving had planted it, the guy was guilty, but they couldn't get the solid evidence that would connect him to the crime, but Irving new, so they put the pennant and even with bosch bosch comes back with the original crime scene Polaroids of which they had two of and he and bosch even says to me, he goes, there's a line and he says, I don't cross that line. And and he goes it's here in the picture and Irving puts it in the shredder and he just goes, what picture? Yeah, that was my one gripe about legacy is like how do you not have? I mean, I miss all this. I mean whenever we can and and it works, it works for the story. You know, if crate and barrel, everybody loves crate and barrel um and other characters. I mean, Irving, you know, I mean I miss I miss Jamie. It was great. I mean we had that one little T scene that we did last season um you know, we imagined for you know, seven years of doing that show together. You know, Jamie and I are close. I mean we're and Lance and I are really, really close. He Connolly wrote 30 books I think 30 with as harry bosch as the character. Are you in seven seasons, are you through all of those? Yeah, I've read every book. Are you? I mean as the materials, are you guys like writing material for the not even remotely okay because what we do is we'll take the books and then cut out. Yeah, they kind of yeah, they do. It's like the ransom note right from Dirty Harry, you know, you look at it and you go and then they move the pieces around because like, like, like like concrete blonde sort of shows up in season five and six. Yeah, that was the third book. Yeah. And the you know the one that I really want us to do is the latest book which I have to say is my favorite. Mike thinks that I'm silly because I actually as Harry becomes older, I find that and I don't get me wrong, I love all those books. But as he becomes older for me, he becomes interesting because he doesn't have the same physicality anymore. And yet there's a he's got that nuclear core that exists that, You know, he grunts and groans but he still tries to move like he's 25 years old and that's the other part. He's relentless. And so that's the fun stuff as he gets older. I mean, you know we did, we did burning room, which I love. But desert star and I do the audio books. Yeah. By the way that he does that you should pick up all the ones. But when did you start like halfway through the run? I start yeah, I think you're not reading books. I read them all. And then when I found out you were doing The Voice, I was like, oh I can hear more harry bosch that's how he goes to sleep. I was gonna say or other things. I watched the show. I watched the show. We have to talk about cars at some point here. So okay, real quick. I read Desert Star uh before thanksgiving. It's it's it's it's so good. Yeah, it's I mean, well first of all, like where's Renee Ballard on film? You know, there needs to be a ballot? Well, that's got to happen. I mean that does truly have to happen and I still feel like there's there's other characters from the original boss show that could really stand Maddie becomes a detective in a few years and I don't know, well mike is teased about the idea of, you know, that perhaps having Maddie go into her to her own um book series. But the, but you know, when I was doing the audiobook, I don't read the books in advance. I actually really enjoy the experience of because you know, you do it incrementally, it's like can record for about four hours and then my voice is shot so I have to do it and it's always falls into the time when we're in full production of bosch, so I record them on the weekends on Saturdays and Sundays. But there were there were moments in reading the book where I literally had to stop and I'd say let's take a break and because I found myself crying, I mean I was I know exactly the moment. So you're reading your recording, are you reading the material for the first time? Yeah. Are you like reading a page ahead and then go back and re reading it or you're literally like Virgin Eyes. No, I just yeah, just do it there and then it's uh it's obviously fun for me is the aspect of that. I know this character so it's it's when when there's the, when he's speaking in the books, that's when when, you know, I can have fun with it and you know, I haven't changed his voice. Um I got to say that the the end of that book when he gets to florida, like that was so cool, so much fun. I desperately want to do that and commit that to film because that for me and you know, I always say that Connolly is the master of literary judo because he and I don't care, you can be the most season, you know, uh crime. No, no, I mean years ago, but he's the crime fiction in that way of you can be in a so called expert and he will he will lead the reader down a path and you you have an inkling that you think, you know what it is, It's never what it is. Never I said to Mike that is I I said that's beyond a gift. You know, I I don't I'm talking like, you know, all the guys nelson Aldrin and Hammett and all the guys that that mike loves and admires. I gotta say he he does it in that way, you know the literary judo? He's a master of that and that's part of the fun too there's also a lot of out takes when I'm doing the books because you'll I'll be reading something. I'll go, oh s**t what? Wait a minute. Hold on a second. I'll go, Yeah, yeah, stop to recording. And then I'll read it. I'll go, Okay. We were, we were on, we were in Hawaii and I was reading a desert Star and it was around the ending of the book and at one point I stopped and my wife's like, are you crying reading a bosch book and was like, I actually have, yeah, you know, and it was like, you know the part, but it's just amazing. Yeah, just like, you know, also it's this is a this is a long, this is a case that, that bosch could never close. And it's one of those cases that has haunted him his entire adult life and and he gets another shot at it and kind of kind of kind of kind of, I have 20 books? Yeah, it's good. It's good. You got a lot of reading to do man. It's good to do the audio. They're quite good audio. I mean, hey, I, I like who's the actor who does Renee Ballard in the Christine. Like yes, the audio books because I'm I am paying Michael a fortune. I think paying on amazon like 10 bucks you're paying Michael. No matter what. Yeah, they're about the same price of the book. I think I had one crutch. So you just back to the car piece. You you made it big. What was the first splurge? What was the first or do you think you've made it big? Audi Roadster t t limited edition with the baseball interior. We had Freeman thomas in that chair yesterday. The guy who designed it who came up with was sitting right there is a God he was sitting right there. Still had that car. Yeah. Yeah he he it was I mean listen to that episode too. But uh he that was his baby. Like he had a little sketch on his desk. His boss walked by and said hey can I show that to my boss And then they're like make it in secret don't change a thing. And mine was the manual the six speed and a little inside. Baseball. Took it to a friend of mine who's a who's a great mechanic but he went yeah there's this little chip in here. It's a governor. So they take that out and watch now drive the car. And this is this was the this was after you did this is the payday from Deadwood. I was doing oh no Deadwood was no payday. I can tell you that that was that was Deadwood was later. But I was doing a a drama d with paul Sorvino and Ellen Burstyn um called that's life. Not uh you know it was it was a perfectly good job but it was coming off of Brooklyn South. I was under contract with cbs at that time. Um So I was finally, I don't want to say necessarily flush, but I actually had, I had a little, I had a steady income in a little walking around money and I saw that car and it drove by me and I initially thought it was a Porsche. I went, wow, that's cool. They're bringing back the bathtub Porsche. And then I had banged gue. I was driving a um oh God it was the chevy avalanche. I had an avalanche banged aue and fall and then I saw the Audi thing, I immediately drove from there to the outer Audi dealership in um santa Monica and they had it. Um But he said this one, this is the one I want. No, no, no that's the one that I want, you know, it's significant, It's more expensive than the other ones because it's convertible on this base. Volunteering. But I just looked at the guy and I went, I have a checkbook. I'm prepared to write you, you want to lease it? No, no, I am prepared to write you a check. Um And that was kind of, well yeah, when I did Brooklyn South I got my first new car which was a 1998 Volvo cross country but I knew that I was, I was about to have a child and you know Volvos are great cars and the first, the first run of the cross country that was a zippy car. Um and it could and it could handle the new England winters and everything. But yeah, it was the, it was the T T and I missed that car. I have to say it was a cool car. It was a very cool car. It's gonna be a collector's. Oh yeah, the baseball, the baseball glove. And he did say just so you know, he designed it as a convertible first and then I think Piek who was the major domo, it was like also do a coupe. He said also that to to get the Germans to understand what material he wanted for those seats. He went to a big five and bought a baseball glove and showed them that makes perfect sense. Yeah, they were great. I mean, you know the, the aesthetic of that car and I like the other ones, the coupes are cool. But yeah, it was if I, I mean I drove and drove and drove, I used to drive it from, I lived in Connecticut at the time and I would drive it up to my place in Maine. But I didn't care. You know, it was a long drive, wind it out. It's going to be doing a buck 30 you know, let's let's switch gears to Porsche targets because uh, I just got one. Well, no, no, no, no, I didn't get no. So we were, I was on set, it was nice enough actually. Mark Douglas was nice enough invited me down, Amy and I and my wife to watch a scene being shot in downtown L. A. And are you ending up as a corpse at some point? No, not this season one. I'll be a corpse on watch one day. He's a naked hooker in an alleyway. I said pedophile, but he but he's wearing motor trend box. Perfect course for motor trend. That clearance would actually come across my desk. Are you gonna be all right? He's a pedophile. But he's wearing motor trend swag. So, uh, but anyway, so we were talking and he's saying he's thinking about getting a Targa and I'm like, you know what? Like if you want one, I could probably talk to Porsche and they have people that put celebrities in cars and it was the review. So you put that all together, I get the, I get the call and go out and do the Porsche experience, which insane, insane. And you like that. Yeah, I mean it's better than Disneyland. It's better. It's, look, I I had a 9 11 back in in way back in the day, an older older model, a seventies model and I've always liked them and people over the years have said to me, why don't you just get a Porsche? Why don't you just get a Porsche. Um, and I go, well it's not practical. You know, I've got all these kids and this and that and then now I realize that, you know between my wife and I, we have six Children and they're all grown except for our youngest, our baby who's, she's 16, she's not getting a Porsche, I'm going to get her Hummer, you know, with that, you know, that Kevlar and comes with a driver and a bodyguard. Um so he very graciously put me together with them and I went down and got to do all of it, which was running around on the course and doing the launch, which is, you know, did the kick plate. I think every adult should have the experience of launching a Porsche because once you do that, you know, now that being said, uh I'm not looking to drive out to santa Monica airport and see if I can find a good flat strip and do it and so they very graciously um put me in a Porsche in a targa and I've had it for um for the past week, so I've been been driving it around um somewhat judiciously just because I'm I'm a little bit nervous, it's not my car, you'll get over that. Um yeah, they're a multi billion dollar international mega corporation that can hit print and knock another one out, but I have to say from the standpoint of a driving experience and this is, this is not just me trying to be gracious, I have never ever driven a car that feels like this, it's the new 9 11 world cla*s. It is above and beyond any experience and I always, and it kind of throws me back to the days of when I did have manuals, when you, when you drove cars in a different way and this car really despite the fact that it could do it all for you, the car demands to be driven and I just mean, I don't know, it's, I know it's cliche but it is an experience and I realize now that I desperately have to have one of these cars, I have got to have one of these cars and I live up by the way, I live in the, in the mountains in Topanga. You know, I've got a, my wife and I both have the new broncos and I and I literally, you know, they're, they're doing a limited edition heritage bronco, which I desperately wanted. But then my wife and I just for fun on a sunday decided to go and test drive a Porsche at a Porsche dealer and you know, fortunately my wife loves, she's not a car person, but she's, you know, she's driven like these gumball rally things, she's saying she's done. So you know, she's not like, oh, I don't really care about cars. She's like, no darling, I think we absolutely have to have a portion. So I've got her vote, oh then just do it because what I'm doing is I send my wife for like Hanukkah, I sent her to the Porsche experience center to, you know, she gets four hours a year and she loves it because my master plan is to convince her one day I can buy 9 11. I thought you were going to say I got my wife a Porsche for Hanukkah. Oh, I was like, you see, I'm representing the wrong tribe. That's what I would go back to my wife and say, you know, we're gonna convert because not only do you get more gifts and you get like, get gifts over lots and lots of nights, but you get a Porsche, but no, because because, you know, she's my, my wife weirdly is a very, very weird because she's never tried, but she's a very, very good driver and I want to nurture that I have these dreams of us doing rallies together in our old age. But I really want to just heard something about all the wheels being curbed. Well, she's a terrible parker. She's a very good driver. She's the worst parker in. My wife is the same way. She's a great driver, although I'm nervous because she, she's, she's peppy. She's always going like, Darling, can you go a little bit faster, can you go a little bit faster? Yeah, yeah, she's my my wife, I go, I go, you know, 82 on the freeway. My wife's always, I'm like 90s kind of like, yeah, that's a good ticket. Yeah, that's not a ticket. It's a hangover from when my kids were were little. I think, I think I put my eldest, my two eldest kids, my two sons in the T T. One time and drove them to school. I drove my daughter the other day and my daughter used to understand that she's, she is not a glitz and glamour kit at all. And she plays sam the dog walker. My daughter cora on, on bOSch legacy. Um, I mean she likes her, she likes nice things and everything, but you know, she's an eye roller. If I go look at that, she'll be like, it's a car. Dad. Yeah, She had a very different experience when I rocked up top down. No, I didn't have the top down, but she went, that's the car. And I went and she went, oh my God, it took her to, can you take me to school on that? And I go, yeah, sure. But of course not into where people can see it. It's just like pull over here. Uh, what color? What color? It's, it's this odd grayish green. Okay. It's, it's beautiful. Very cool. I'm glad that worked out. That makes me happy because I, I called, I called luke and he's like, I don't really handle that. But I, I know a guy and well I thank you for that because look, maybe they'll give you a 9 11 now because I'm going to, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Nobody gives any, well not 9 11 used to be, if we could roll the clock back 20 years. Absolutely. They'd be right compliance is a big word in Germany now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So broncos in the garage his and hers and we're looking at a potential Porsche. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. But I know we're all kind of rivian obsessed. We become totally obsessed. You know the 2022 motor trend truck of the year. My executive producer, Henrik Bastin just got his Mark Douglas, who was also a producer on the show. He's got his, I've got several other friends and I'm seeing them all over Topanga. Actually one of my neighbors at the bottom of the hill. Um, so I immediately said, okay, well let's really talk Turkey about this thing. Um, and everybody consistently because this guy hauls horses and his as his mark. And so I wanted to talk about distance and things like that. Um, but everybody's going bananas and it looks cool. 1st. 1st family. Uh, No. Well yeah, full E. V. For sure. I wanted to go, Do you remember the car company koda years ago? Boy, we had the Ceo sitting in that chair. They were one of the very first guys and I had a friend named Forrest Bean um, who worked for them in what capacity? I can't remember. This is many years ago. Um, I had a Prius at the time. And uh, and prior to that I had a 2005 mustang GT six speed manual had the front and rear suspension were swapped out as was the transmission with all ford performance racing part. The car was by the time I was done with this when I was doing deadwood, the car was no longer street legal and I couldn't get out of second gear. I mean I was living in Hollywood. So you know, it was just, and then of course, you know, the fuel crunch came And I think gas was like $8, you know, and you could only put the best gas in it. So now I'm driving a Prius and of course my friends are all going titus man, I get it, I get it. You're a good steward to the planet. But really a Prius, it's a but Lozenge and so so I drove that. Yeah, it was, it was, you know, and then the, and I remember watching this documentary who killed the electric car which was a fascinating documentary. Big time, big time. And it's, you know, it needs a resurgence because I think, well obviously it's no longer the future. It's it's it's been the present for some time and it's inevitable since you know, the idea is that, you know, I'm going to enjoy my fossil fuel car while I can. Um, of course my kids are probably going like, wow Yeah, I'm going to keep polluting the environment until I don't, I'm not allowed to. It is a generational thing is so your, is that your daughter Stacy? I roll you on the unlike stuff like that. But you know what if I said to her, oh your first car. You know what, I'll tell you what, I'm going to get a portion. You can have my bronco, she's all in. Yeah, yeah, she wants a jeep. So I'm like, okay, she's 16, 16 about to be 17. Electric jeep coming soon. Electric eye. So she does, she's starting to think you're cool, right? No, no, no, no, not at all. You're just like, no, I don't even know that my daughter loves me anymore and she's 16 years old. I am the, I am the the master or the president of the nerd uncool universe when I meet her friends, you know, it's kind of like meeting the queen. There's a whole like protocol sheet that I have to look at before. I, you know, do not make direct eye contact, do not make any jokes, don't come. I don't know her friends are all perfectly nice. Um but quite honestly, I don't have a lot of interaction. You know, they come in the house and I disappear into the cinema room, which is, which is my fortress of solitude. Anyway, I'm I'm fine to be. It was different. Was a difference between boys and girls was there a time when your sons didn't think you were cool at all and then I would have to ask them, but they've always kind of treated me with respect. Um and uh, and certainly look, it didn't hurt that I drove cool cars and Harley Davidsons and then I did transformers and everything changed and all of a sudden and I have a question because you know, I want to ask you kind of like, what's the difference between transformers and nine oh 21? Oh, but I know you've done like Star trek, Star Wars, like your, you know, kind of deep. Yeah. Right. Oh yeah, yeah. You're kind of like, I'm a huge nerd dork side. You don't present? No, I'm a big dork. If you came to my, for instance, in my, in my storage space in my house downstairs, I have a massive toy collection, massive toy, Star Wars, Star trek toys from the sixties and the seventies, joe's all that stuff. Millennium Falcon's No, no, no, I mean crazy stuff. I don't really do it that much anymore. But I'm sort of an ambassador for the, for the brand can't call them toys, sideshow collectibles, which makes, yeah. And what, when the line is that its longest, what are they signing up for bosch or something? Well, I think it could be transformers or Mandalorian or anything. Yeah, I've just, I'm just about to really stick a toe in the water? I haven't, I've, I go to them as myself, I just, yeah, I right. Yeah, I just played lex. So basically if if if they can't get me into you know with Mandalorian transformers. X Files lex Luther. If they can't get me a prime spot in a in a convention I need to fire everybody on my team. It's preposterous. Well I mean it's true that if you if you are in like a frame of star trek you can almost make a career of showing up and signing that. Right? I mean well in theory I don't know I I've not seen but I go to the comic cons on my own and I go to Monster Pelusa and stuff I throw on a baseball cap and then I end up you know sitting at um you know Dee Wallace was there and I completely lost my mind um Because I was you know had a massive crush on her remember the you know the howling And then you know and then E. T. And she was just like the most and she's just she's so lovely. So I'm seeing all these people and their because I work as an actor too and I'm rocking up with sunglasses and a baseball cap because just because I know that these people once they figure it out they're gonna they're they'll have their own little moment and I'm not there working the thing but I do the very same thing. I'm rocking up to their tables and they're going oh oh hi like Kane Hodder the guy who played Jason in the friday the 13th you know I literally rocked up to Kane Hodder hey man can we take a picture Anyway, I was gonna ask you the same thing um those are my people, comic books, massive comic book, I didn't know that I'm a marvel dc guy so when I got the call about lex Luther that was a dream come true right now, you haven't done anything for marvel yet? Yeah I have actually I was on I did one of the marvel shorts that lou lou de esposito, you know um the head honcho at at marvel um it was one of the little these little teaser things so it was after Avengers and Clark Gregg's character Coulson's been killed and everybody's kind of morning exactly so this young couple discover the the battery weaponry and they start robbing banks with it and so we're in pursuit and that spun into Agents of Shield, I reprised that role on Shield and you know the other great part of that is that Clark Gregg and I go back like car seats, I mean best of friends starting in college at N. Y. U. Yeah he used to come and live at my law whenever we went through a break up it was like the odd couple and you know this is the old days where I lived in a in a loft in a four story walk up and I was the only tenant, everybody else were artists had to call me from a pay phone and then I put the keys in a sock and drop it down to you. But it was just, it was hilarious. You know, I'd get the, get the call, open up the window and there would be clark and it was always, it always seemed like it was raining, went through a breakup with his bags, you know, and I would literally cue the music. Uh, and then lo and behold, there we are playing Agents of Shield, wow. And with, you know, my best, my best buddy. And we're on the, we're on the deck of the Shield. Helli carrier. It's just surreal, wow, totally surreal. What a, what a career so far. I mean that I'm also kicking myself. I think the only marvel anything I haven't watched as Agents of Shield for whatever. It's great. Yeah. Okay. It's no, it's really, really good. Plus I'll check it out. Oh, I love Disney Plus. Is I call it cracked. Plus it's terrible because I watch, did you watch and or uh, how and or that's a whole other, you have to bring me back just to talk about and because I think, I think it may be one of the best television programs, you know, Rogue One. One of my favorite films. It's yes, yes. Because I've been saying for a long time, it's actually the best Star Wars movie. And to everyone's like, I'm like, no, it's Rogue One, like it really is great. I mean all from the mind of Lucas, let's start where it comes. But I have to say the film is a film. Filoni and Favreau took it all to the next level when they brought in Mandalorian commandos, Great man is different man. Anders grown up. Star Wars, it's a different, it's because it's so much darker you need to watch, you know, I just, that's what knights are for when that child sleeping and he goes to bed at 10 30 or something, so you gotta get into bed. Yeah, Alright, alright. But anyways, yeah, I was the finale. I've never done that. I've watched the entire series a couple of times and well, you know, there's a sideshow and hot toys make the most incredible Star Wars collectible stuff. I have a small house, I can't buy into that. No, I, I literally have a statue, this big of the Mandalorian with with you. I'm going to buy the lego set the razors crest. It's very cool. I'm going to buy it. I have the Moss Eisley lego sitting in the closet which my sons, even though they're in their twenties, asked for it. They have to build it. They did the Death Star I built, I built the Moss Eisley one, which is very cool, a lot of fun. But I said to them guys, look, it's taking up a lot of space, they did the death Star, I have a feeling, you know, cannabis and, and, and some sort of a, you know, distilled beverage were involved. But they did build the death star, which was a feat. Very cool. That's good. That's good. We're gonna have to have titus back on to talk about No. And Boss Legacy sees season two, which is coming uh wrapped last week. We wrapped last week. So typically it seems to land in the March april area. So, uh, you know, all that, I will say about this in nine years of playing this character and I, everybody's got, you know, Connolly and the other producers and actors. Well, we all have our kind of greatest hits of seasons and specific scenes that we've really enjoyed doing. I have to say that this season may be the best of, of all the stuff that we've, that we've done before. Um the bar went on to a whole different level and not in a contrived way. It wasn't, it's not like it's got more bangs and crashes and shootouts or anything like that because our show really isn't based on that stuff, but it's um, you know, a big, big pat on the back to everybody involved, the creative team of bosch, you know, no one and with the success, no one's ever kind of rested on their laurels. They, if anything, they work harder to try to make the next season better and challenge themselves. So did did bosch, I guess he start. So I notice because I literally I'm I'm reading them through chronologically. I just got to the ninth book, I can't remember the name of the 10th, but it is when Bosch becomes a private becomes a private eye. But the tone of the book goes from it goes the first person in that book. And it is it like that significant change because I haven't started. Okay. Yeah, it's it's but they're also it's a different network. So you guys had to make some just changes in the show because because there's commercial breaks, you know, cliffhangers, it just wasn't part of the Yeah, there it's it's it's not in any way the same show. I mean it's the car and the sort of the beauty of it is Connolly said to me, we're doing the pilot, you know, how long do you see yourself doing this? And I said, I'll do it as long as they'll have me. And and that's the beauty of the because Harry as a person doesn't necessarily evolve on, but he evolves on a on a human level within within the chronology of our show, definitely specifically his relationship with his daughter and and things that take him into places. Um and that's what keeps it keeps it interesting in the same way that his books. I mean I blaze those books I can't read, I like to read before bed and what I learned from the first time I ever read one of Mike's books I read City of Bones when we were prepping for the show. I didn't go to sleep until four o'clock. And so I, you know, they're great on an airplane. They're great on the beach in Hawaii, which which I did in fact do several months ago with my wife. Um but I can't, you know, it's difficult because it's sort of like watching something like and er I I had to really discipline myself to not go to the to the next one, although they were dropping them weekly having the same problems with Tulsa King. Yeah, I love that show. I'm almost done with um Yellowstone um 18 83 which is a mind blower, can't wait for the next one to come out. What is at the end of this month? Right, Harrison Ford in the Great Helen, mirren, one time I was asked, I was doing a tv guide thing was for sexiest people on television is when I was doing this milch Bochco show Brooklyn South and they said, So who in your mind is the sexiest woman? And I said Helen Mirren and this is in 1997, she was doing prime suspect, definitely. Helen Mirren, the journalist goes, pick somebody else. And I go, no, that's that's my first Choice. That's my Hall pass Choice and you know, since Excalibur, we're going to stick to that. Well, you know what about such and such and such and such and I went, no, it's this, they didn't print it. Uh Philistines, what do they know from beauty? But she came back remember she was having a sexy moment few years ago? I know she's still absolutely gorgeous. Um Have you started watching the english? No, not yet dude. Yeah, I highly recommend it. It's uh I always say like if always since I saw a couple weeks ago, if tom waits had to like rewrite blood meridian. It is the is the, I've heard, I don't know anything about Hollywood, but I've heard the blood meridian is the script that everybody is fighting for and it's like tied up in court and that's why it hasn't been made. But like this is basically, this is like apocalypse now, that's a descent into like literal Wild West madness. It's so Emily blunt, I can't remember the guy's name, she's incredible. You gotta and it's like, like, like uh Syrian, Heinz Toby jones or in one episode, steven ray, It's incredible. How about I mean tom Hanks shows up in the air for like it's like two lines in on Yellowstone. I got I haven't started that yet. It's it's I got to get to know I got you, I got to get you guys Anyway, I'm kidding. This is our longest look at that Oh hey, longest podcast ever. Great because I'm so shy. Yeah, and nonverbal, we'll meet the real titus next time now that now that we got through the top layer. Yeah, it was great. This was awesome. Thank you for having me. Are you kidding? You know me anytime and I wasn't kidding. Alright, well, yeah, I know, I say we have him back with, with Connolly when uh I didn't read any of his books, that would actually be, that could be a really fun show, because I have to say, I mean mike and I might as well, you know him, he's, he's a kind of retreating and shy guy and then you gotta pull, when you're, if you're interviewing him, you gotta pull it or with a voice like, yeah, what you do is you put a little cabernet Sauvignon, make sure it's vintage, okay, we can do that. Um you know, but Mike and I have done a lot of stuff together and it's funny because, you know, people would ask questions and I go, this is the guy who wrote the book, what do you, what am I going to tell you? But since, you know, the creation of the show and everything that now it's a very, it's a, you know, it's a different, it's a whole different ballgame. So when we do those things together, we actually kind of, you know, bounce well off of each other. So it could be and I know he'd do it and I, yeah, this episode, we should care about a month or so before bosch legacy, maybe we can get him right around that time that or when he gets his electric Porsche finally built and you get your target whatever you're gonna buy. He's doing that. Yeah he has a 356 but he had one that he that he sold. He had one. Yeah he well he was here like a month ago. He was saying that he's got a 356 and he's given to Z electric and they're gonna put a tv motor in it. And uh yeah so he says it's happening so we'll we'll explore that next time man. Hopefully by then I'll have my Porsche.