Episode 87: Loveline with Dr. Drew & Mike Catherwood

Transcript

We talk sex lies, murder when two is company, three is murder. This is the epitome of it right here. How does your life go from being a housewife to participating in a murder? The pastor of the church having sex with another woman. This is beyond dysfunctional sex lies and to murder a real crime original podcast from release new episodes Tuesdays on Apple Podcasts PodcastOne and Spotify. However, everyone and welcome to episode three of four of the true crime all the time unsolved podcast on Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Give me How are you doing good about you? I'm doing well. I'm actually feeling old. This week, my daughter just turned 18, my youngest, so I think it's kind of one of those milestones that just makes you feel older when you are old. I am, but I feel it now. Oh, I've always felt old. Well, you've always been wise ahead of your years, which probably made you feel older than what you really are. A good point. Yeah. Yeah, Dougie. So let's go ahead and give our patron shout outs. We had Chuck Lewis. Hey, Chuck Moose Corn, what's going on, moose? Diana Ross. Hey, Diana. Michelle Ball. Hey, Michel. Rihanna, Clay. Appreciate that Rihanna. Lisa Michelle. Hey, Lisa. Atlas as real. What's going on, Alice? Matthew Hendry. Hey, Matthew. Dave Souza. Appreciate that, Dave. Jacob Mayaguez. Hey ! Stacy, how jumped out at the highest level was of Stacy Kelly Manford? Hey, Kelly. Kim, Smithson. There's Kim, Kobe. Correct, Kobe. Amanda Meyer. Thank you, Amanda. Christopher Barnett. Hey, Christopher. And last but not least, Kimberly Preston. Appreciate that, Kimberly. And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Collette Marsh. Awesome glut. Yeah, appreciate all the patrons support we get. We also had a what is probably the biggest PayPal donation we've ever had from Jana Bauer and find and thank you so much, Bauerfeind. We had donations from Gail Wilson, Gail, Jessi Kruger Automotive Repair. There you go, Kruger Automotive and Mary Zane Amory. So thanks to everyone who helped support to show so Gibbs, we probably should have mentioned it upfront. But your voice has taken a hit the last couple of days. It's not at its peak, not as smooth as honey. No, no. But you'll fight through like you always do. I'll just leave it a little raspy. Well, people may like that right now on true crime all the time. We have an episode out on Kieron McCarron, a mother, a medical professional who murdered her three year old daughter who had autism. It really frustrated me that I did. Yeah, I mean, it's it's not gruesome in the way of details. Obviously, it's tragic that a three year old lost her life. The story is, is about why Karen did what she did, and it is very frustrating. But it's a good episode. Make sure you check that out for sure. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time unsolved? I am ready. We are talking about what we're calling the unresolved disappearance of Erica Baker. This is an episode that you know, we've had slated for a very long time because it happened close to home. It did here in our hometown of Dayton, Ohio, and it was a big case, something that we'd known about for a very long time. The discovery of a family pet wandering alone can often be an ominous sign. But for the Baker family, the sight of their beloved dog Jamie dragging its leash on the street was the start of a nightmare. What began as a runaway pet quickly turned into a desperate search for Erica Baker, whose disappearance has remained a mystery for over two decades. Erica, a bright and vivacious third grader at Indian River Elementary School, disappeared in February 1999. She vanished without a trace, leaving her family and the community reeling. I'm just thinking the moment that dog showed up the leash dragging behind it without Erica. Yeah. As a parent, you're going to freak out. Yeah, your heart is going to sink. You're probably going to think the worst. Now, maybe not everyone would at first, you know, maybe it's well, she got distracted. She started playing with another, you know, kid and she forgot. And the dog kind of ran off with the dogs, too was too strong and pulled all the way from where you could think a couple of things, but I'm sure some people would think the worst or fear the worst, at the very least. The disappearance triggered a community wide search effort, with hundreds of volunteers scouring the area for any sign of the missing girl. And I remember this man. It was, you know, it was all over our local news. It was the biggest story for quite a quite a while. Despite years of investigations and searches, Erica has yet to be found, leaving her family and the community searching for answers. Erica Baker was born to. And Greg Baker, a small family residing in the Kettering, Dayton, Ohio, area, Erica, who was born in 1990, was loved deeply by her parents and grandmother. I mentioned it, Ray. She attended the local Indian Riffle Elementary School, where her teachers described her as a bright and cheerful student who enjoyed playing with her classmates. Many who knew Erica described her as a friendly and outgoing child. Kim Hassi, a playroom supervisor at Erica's elementary school, spoke highly of her telling W D10 she's the friendliest child in the world. Kim recalled how it was common to see Erica walking around and how she would always smile and wave at everyone she encountered. Tragically, Erika's life took a devastating turn on February 7th, 1999, around three p.m. that day. Nine year old Erica Baker was last seen walking her dog in a Kettering neighborhood near the Kettering rec center. Despite her mother's initial refusal, Erica persisted in asking to take their Shih-Tzu Jamie for a walk near the Kettering rack. Her mother, Misty, finally gave in to her daughter's request, but not before making sure that she wore a raincoat over her Winnie the Pooh sweater to protect her from the rain. You know, I've been there before, or my daughter or son wanted to do something you're like, No, no, no, no, OK. Eventually, sometimes they can wear you down, right? And you know, we've done a number of unsolved cases where I remember that a parent didn't want their child to do something or go somewhere, right? But the child wore them down and eventually they gave in. Now, later on, when that child goes missing or is murdered, there is going to be a tremendous amount of guilt on the part of the parent. Sure for that action. But that's, you know, something that a lot of us have done time and time again, right given to a child's wish or to let them do something. It's just that for most of us, nothing bad ever comes from it. And I always say, right, there shouldn't be this tremendous amount of guilt, but you know, there is and there's nothing that the person can do about it. You can tell someone a million times, it's not your fault. You didn't do anything wrong. You didn't do anything that millions of other parents haven't done. It's not going to matter. It's in their head and they're not going to let go of it. Yeah. According to W. Incom. Two hours later, at approximately five p.m., Baker's dog was found on its leash, but there was no sign of Erika. According to the authorities at the time, there was no sign of a struggle or any indication of foul play. Unfortunately, Erica never returned from that walk, and her mother has not seen her since. According to Incom and other reports, the search for Erica Baker began at a pond located at the Kettering Rec Center on the night of February 7th, 1999, and in an effort to find her three dozen of her friends, along with police dogs, joined the search. However, after the search, nothing was found. The Baker family decided to try and look for Erica again the next day on February 8th at around eight a.m.. A massive search operation was launched involving hundreds of volunteers and law enforcement officials to locate Erica Baker. And this is something that you and I talk about in many, many unsolved episodes. A child goes missing, right? Their family is frantic to find them. Law enforcement is frantic to find them, for sure. But what you often see is a community rallying around the family and giving freely of their time and energy to help search. And you know, I've always thought that the mentality must be at number one. This is a small child. We've got to find her. But also, if this was my child, this is what I would want. So I'm going to try to help because I would hope that the community would rally around me if if I was in that situation, I always, always think that. And deep down, I just think by and large, people are good people. Yeah, for sure. And the thought of a missing child, you know, it eats at them. They want to do something. If there's something that they can do to help, they want to do that the search efforts were concentrated in the area surrounding the REC center, where the initial search had been conducted the night before the search even extended to draining a 2.9 million gallon retention pond. OK, that's a lot of water. It is a lot of water, but I get the thinking right. She's thought to have been around this rec center. We've got this pond. We can either send divers in, which maybe you can't do on in February in Dayton or we can drain it. They made the decision to drain, drain it and see what see what they can find. Now, obviously, she was not in that pond. The aim was to cover as much ground as possible in hopes of finding any clues that could lead to the discovery of Erika. Despite the diligent efforts of the community, including hundreds of volunteers and law enforcement officers who tirelessly scoured the area, there was no success in finding any trace of Erika. That's a pretty populated area to it is it is. I mean, this is not farmland, though, that we're talking about, but I want to talk about how disappointing, how deflating you this must be. Not just in this case, but in any case where a child goes missing. You know, in the beginning, you have this kind of groundswell of support. Sure, you have a lot of volunteers, but when the searches don't bear anything out and time goes by human nature, is that OK? People that got to get back to their lives, everybody around you goes back to their regular lives? Yeah. And so as much as people want to help, they probably can't do it indefinitely. Yeah, they've got jobs. They've got, you know, things going on and it has to be disappointing for them, law enforcement and especially the family, for sure, because every day you're so hopeful. We got all these people there helping us. Today's the day we're going to find her. And then when it doesn't happen. Major letdown During the investigation into the disappearance of young Erica Baker, a suspect was identified in the case. Christian John Gabriel, a resident of Springfield who was initially considered as a potential witness, became the prime suspect after his then girlfriend's confession. So just for reference, Springfield is a little bit north of where we are, but 40 minutes, let's say, between Dayton and Columbus. Yeah. But about 40 minutes away from the Dayton area, sure give or take. According to W10 Incom, Christian was brought into questioning by the authorities soon after due to statements made by Jan Franks, his girlfriend at the time, according to Jan. She and Christian were driving in a van when Christian hit and killed Erica Jahn claim that they hid the little girl's body after the accident. It was later revealed that the couple were on drugs during the time of the incident, potentially leading to Erica's disappearance. Despite Jan statement about Christian Gabriel's involvement in Erica Baker's disappearance, charges were not filed against him until years later. And why do you think that was Gibbs? Well, they are nobody. Yeah, that's true. My my thought is a confession is not enough, and I know we've talked about it. People confess to things all the time. Sure. But when you have nothing else to back up that confession, is it going to be enough? Yeah, I don't. I don't think so. I think you need some type of other evidence to support it. Yeah. To support the confession. Because you know, what's the worst thing is that you charge this guy, you take him to trial, you don't have the evidence, any walks. And that's it. And the flip side of that is if you do that. And he wasn't the person he spent all this time focusing on this person instead of where you probably should have been focusing and not. And not only that, but if you find the real person that person's defense attorney is going to use the fact that you charge someone else against you and they're going to play that up to the jury, OK? They've already charged one innocent person. They tried one innocent person. Here they go again. Tragically, Jan passed away in 2001 from a drug overdose. Long before Christian's case was brought before a grand jury, Jan was believed to have. Shared this information with her attorney, Beth Lewis, regarding Erica's disappearance. However, Beth maintained attorney client privilege and didn't reveal any information until June 2002. Eventually, she would testify before a grand jury disclosing what she knew. But it wasn't until July 2004 that Christian John Gabriel made the shocking admission, confessing to his involvement in Erica Baker's disappearance. However, he refused to reveal where her body was located. According to the Cincinnati Enquirer, Christian gave inconsistent accounts to the police about what happened to Erica. In one version, Christian claimed that he was driving a van after committing a theft at Myers. He said his driver's license was suspended when he hit Erica near the intersection of Glen Gary Drive and Powell Hatton Place around four p.m. on February 7th, 1999. He then said he fled the scene and disposed of Erika's body. It's believed that Christian's fear of being caught for the theft and driving offense likely motivated his actions, which led to Erica's disappearance. Now, in another version, Christian denied any involvement in Erika's death. However, investigators believed Christian's first version that Erica was hit near the intersection of Glen Gary Drive in Powell Hatton Place shortly before four p.m. on February seven as Christian was driving westbound, according to Cincinnati Gqom. During the trial conducted in 2005, jurors heard all versions of events that Gabriel had given to the police. True crime all the time unsolved is brought to you by progressive insurance. Most of you listening right now or probably multitasking? Yep, while you're listening to give me a night talk, you're probably also driving, cleaning, exercising or maybe even grocery shopping. But if you're not in some kind of moving vehicle, there's something else you can be doing right now getting an auto quote from progressive insurance. It's easy, and you can save money by doing it right from your phone. Drivers who say by switching to Progressive saved nearly $700 on average and auto customers qualifying for an average of seven discounts. 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Prosecutors presented a videotaped interview with Christian, where he admitted to police that he was a passenger in a van that hit and killed nine year old Erica as she walked her dog. On that rainy Sunday afternoon in February of 1999. So now he's a passenger. Well, and that's where we said right. He gave a number of versions of what happened that day, and in these different versions, it seems as though his culpability is different. Right. His level of involvement is different. He's driving. He's a passenger. He didn't have anything to do with it at all. You know, kind of all over the place now. I don't know why the videotaped interview is this version. Maybe they didn't videotape the other ones. I don't know. But this is what prosecutors presented. According to Cincinnati, ICOM Christian Gabriel provided details about Erica's death and the whereabouts of her body, which is yet to be found. In a videotaped interview played during his trial, he said We were going down the street and heard a thud and got out of the van and someone was lying in the street. When asked how he knew Erica was walking her dog at the time of the accident, he replied Because I saw the dog. He went on to reveal that he and three others in the van had been partying. He said I was drunk. I had a buzz. I really didn't see nothing until I heard the thought. Further information was disclosed when Christian admitted that he and his friends put Erica in the back of the van and drove her to his apartment after the accident. They discussed taking her to the hospital, but instead drove to a park. Christian claimed that he stayed in the van while the others disposed of Erika's body, stating they said they just laid it somewhere. However, he didn't remember the name or the location of the park. I hate that part where he says they discussed taking her to the hospital. It makes me feel like maybe she was still alive when they say something like that. Oh, I think you're on the right track. Why would you be having a discussion about taking someone to the hospital if you knew they were dead, right? And so, you know, there is a feeling a sick feeling, I think that you get when you think that that could have occurred. But I want to go back to, you know, this guy's different versions, right? So now we're we're on the he's a passenger version. And if you think about it, so he says he's not driving, he's drunk. He's got a buzz and he never gets out of the van. It's the the other guy's that he's with, that dispose of the body. What's a good way to keep yourself from getting in too much trouble? That's what it sounds like, right? And this is an avenue that you and I go down on true crime all the time. Quite a bit. You know, when killers reveal information, more often than not, it seems like there's a there's a bend to it. There's a twist where I'm giving you something, I'm giving you a nugget. But at the same time, I'm I'm pulling myself out of it a little bit. I'm softening my part in it. We see that time and time again. But one thing that really jumped out at me about this is that he says, you know, his friends said that they just laid her somewhere. Well, if that's the case, a body in a park you would think would be found fairly quickly. And at the very least, it's going to be found at some point. If you just layer on top of the ground, you know, and they open or made little effort to hide the body. You think they were been found. So the fact that she's never been found doesn't lend a lot of credibility to this story. It just doesn't. And I think prosecutors felt the same way. They argued that Christian was not entirely truthful in his confession. They allege that he was actually driving the van. This struck Erica, and that he was the one who buried her body. Now, his defense attorney claimed that this confession was made under duress, citing pressure from the police. And let's talk about that word pressure. I don't know that there's anything wrong inherently with the word pressure. You know, if I'm saying, I know you did it, tell me what happened. OK, I'm pressuring you to a degree to be truthful, to come out and spill. Now, if pressure is beating someone with a rubber hose, that's different for sure. You know, that's a complete, completely different scenario, but certain elements of pressure. Yeah, I mean, I think police do cross the line. We've seen that. We know that. Yeah, yeah. I guess it just all comes down to what is meant by pressure, according to the Dayton Daily News. A witness named Carol Strine came forward during the trial and testified that she saw Erica walking her dog on the day of her disappearance. She also mentioned that she saw the dog alone. Later on, Carol said I was still feeling good about finding the lost dog, but then the news came on and it was showing the Kettering Recreation Center and the missing little girl. My husband looked at me and I looked at him and we called the police right away. Definitely a sad day when they could put the two together, right? They see it on the news. They're they're thinking. We saw that girl and that dog, and we saw the dog by itself later. Oh my gosh. That's her. Yeah. But it's interesting how she frames it. They were actually feeling good that like they had done a good thing they had. They found the dog. Yeah. Only to later find out what the real tragedy was. Yes. And the dog? Yeah. So it really kind of puts it in perspective eventually. Christine John Gabriel was found guilty by a jury in October 2005 of gross abuse of a corpse and tampering with evidence in relation to Erica Baker's disappearance. The jury deliberated for three hours before returning the verdict. Gabriel was sentenced to six years in prison and reportedly cussed as he was taken away by the authorities. Well, he admitted in one of his confessions that he picked up the body and took it to a park and disposed of it. And I'm assuming that's all the jury needed to hear for at least this charge. Yeah. And I think you have to ask the question, where are these three other people who were supposedly in the van? And according to him, were the ones who actually took Erica's body out and disposed of it? So you're telling me that you're on trial and you could probably make a deal for little to no time by giving up these people and you say, no, I'm not going to do that. Yeah. Could it happen? Sure. Could it also be that these three people don't exist? Sure. You know, I think, yeah, you got to look at it from a number of different way. Right at the time of Christian's trial, Erica's family had come to terms with the fact that she was no longer alive. But the lack of a body made it difficult for them to find closure. Despite Erica's father, Greg Baker's plea for Christian to reveal the location of his daughter's remains. Christian maintained that he had no knowledge of it. Some, including the Cincinnati Enquirer, speculated that Christian's refusal may be due to the fact that there is no statute of limitations on murder charges. Absolutely. And why would he want to disclose where the body is if he knows that it can make that it would cause him to spend more time in jail? Well, and that was my thought. Exactly where's the benefit in him disclosing this information to me? There seems to be only a really big downside, a possible downside. Now you hate it because you have this family who desperately wants to honor their daughter, bury their daughter, you know, have some place to go to talk to her. Right? But if you're this guy, what's the motive for giving that information up and possibly putting yourself and even more jeopardy. There is, and that's where you kind of wish there was something in the system where the families get together with the prosecutor and say, Listen, if you don't feel like you're ever going to figure out where her body is, can we just go ahead and do a deal with him? He serves no time. As long as he tells us where the body is. No additional time, yeah, yeah. Just leave it at that. Yeah, no, I get you. I get you. And you know, maybe there was some backroom dealings like that and he turned them down. We just don't know. The one thing I will say is there is a very big difference between six years for abuse of a corpse and a possible murder conviction and sentence. Oh yeah. On June 23rd, 2011, Christian John Gabriel was released from prison in a bizarre turn of events. Erica's grandmother, Pam Schmidt, picked Christian up after his release from prison. She then took him out to a restaurant hoping to get information about Erica's disappearance. I remember this making the news at that time, and you know, the chatter was people could not believe that she would do this, that she would do that. Yeah. I mean, what most of the reporting talked about was how Pam hoped that by talking to him personally, he would open up and confess to her about Erica's whereabouts. The problem is he didn't. Pam really didn't get any information out of him, but I don't think it was a bad ploy. I don't think so either. I think she had some moxie moxie. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think so as well, because it must have been really hard to sit across the table from this individual who she probably believed killed Erica. Yeah, but that's how desperate she was to try to get any information. Sure. Yeah. About where her body was. According to the Dayton Daily News, Misty Baker said that her mom, Pam, said that Christian's mind went blank when it came to Erica. He said he was very sorry for what happened that night, but unfortunately he doesn't remember. According to him, he was too high to remember where they put her. The Baker family had heard repeatedly that drugs were involved in Erica's disappearance, but they found it hard to believe that someone could be so heavily under the influence that they wouldn't help a child in need. Yeah, I think it's disappointing. You hear some of those accounts. I mean, if she needed to go to hospital, why wouldn't you've taken her to the hospital? It would have been the right thing to do. Obviously, it would have been the right thing to do. But are you then setting yourself up to get caught, even even if you drop this child off out front? Do you do you get caught by, you know, video surveillance possible? Now my thing is you're so high that you don't remember where the van went to this park, this location, right? I get it. Some people get, you know, plastered out of their mind, but I don't know seems hard to believe, but I don't know. It just seems convenient that he says he was too high to remember. But yeah, there's some facts he can't remember. Yeah, it's almost seemed like selective memory. You're either plastered or you're picking and choosing what you want to disclose because to disclose some of the things would put you at risk if you drank a lot of alcohol. I can kind of buy into that a little bit more than the because I was so high. Yeah, yeah. To be honest with you, that one is kind of hard to believe. Not that either you or I would know or have any experience with that at all. Correct. Allegedly. Allegedly. For sure. I'll go along with that. Whatever you say. Pam Schmidt, Erica's grandmother, expressed her confusion and disbelief, wondering how much drugs one would have to consume to ignore an innocent child who needed help. The family struggled to come to terms with the idea that drugs could have played a role in Erica's disappearance and ultimate death. And I think you and I are kind of struggling with it as well. Now, I'm not thinking so much that it was drugs that led them not to help an innocent child. To me, it was more likely the fear of getting caught for doing the other stuff that they had been doing right and hitting the child while under the influence. Not that drugs made them not want to help her. Does that make sense? It does make sense. I got you. It's more a preservation of them that made them not only not want to help her, but probably hurt her. Right after his release, public records indicate that Christian relocated to Florida over the years since Erica's disappearance in. 1999, the Baker family and law enforcement authorities have made extensive and persistent attempts to uncover the little girl's body, according to his confession letter. Christian told the detectives that he buried Eric at Huffman Dam, a local park located about 10 miles north of Kettering. But that area has been searched numerous times over the years, and Erika's remains have never been found. However, there is some discrepancy in Christian statement, as he mentioned driving south, not north when he left the scene. So if that is true, he wouldn't have been headed towards Huffman death. You would not have. I think one of the big problems in this case is over the years, Christian has provided investigators with several potential locations where Erica's body might be. And those areas have been searched thoroughly, but nothing has been found. So, you know, what do you make of that? Is this a person whose memory is hazy and one day they think it's here and another day they remember that it might be here? Or is this a person that's playing with the police and just sending them out on a wild goose chase? I mean, if you don't know, you don't know. Why would you make assumptions that it could be over here? It could be over there if you don't know. You don't know. Yeah, I don't know unless he's playing with them now. If you're the police, you have to take it seriously. You have to go search. It wouldn't be the first time that someone reveled in messing with the police, right? Yeah, we see it, you know, a lot. In September 2013, authorities received a tip suggesting that Erica's remains might be located in a pond at a trailer park on private property. As a result, the dive team was dispatched to search the pond. But this search didn't yield any conclusive evidence. And when we mentioned it right, her body has never been found despite, you know, all of these searches over the years. Although Erica is presumed dead. Authorities have vowed to continue their efforts to locate the remains of Erica Baker. I mean, it has been a very long time Gibbs, we said. 1999, 23 years. Hard to think that this girl who was nine years old at the time would have just disappeared and is alive somewhere. Hard to believe that in 2020, to authorities and volunteers received another tip from Dayton. 24-7 now regarding Erica's possible whereabouts, the Dayton 24-7 Now podcast team had another look into Christian's confession letter. They managed to identify two parks that matched his descriptions, so the team approached the retired Kettering detective, Bob Green, with their findings. The detective revealed that he had the same thought about those parks over the years and had already searched one of them. Bob agreed that it was time to search the other location. He said it was a tip. After the podcast that you guys brought to our attention, it was a very interesting tip. It warranted enough information that we needed to be out here. So, you know, it feels good, but I've done this so many times that have kind of put a shield to check myself and my emotions. So for me, it's another place we have to check that box. And I think I get that, you know, you think it's going to be at this place, you get excited. It fizzles out. Then you hear about this possible location and you go over here thinking, OK, this is going to be where we're going to finally find her. No, you got to go over to another place. I think you get to the point where you don't even want to get excited about any tip that comes in. Well, I think he's saying, you know, I had to put a wall up and I and I I understand that, you know, you're using the word excited. I get that because you think this is going to be the day. Yeah, this is going to be the place. This is going to be the day we've been searching for so long. But at a certain point, you've got to be guarded because that big of a let down time after time. It could be kind of soul crushing, I would think, Oh yeah, I agree with that. So optimistic. Yes. But putting everything into it, I think, would be very hard to do time and time again, kind of like, he said, check yourself. All right. We're gonna we're going to go. We're going to look for her. But I'm not going to get my hopes up to the point where if we don't find her, I'm not going to be able to sleep for the next two weeks. And you know, this is the thing that kind of comes with a lot of the unsolved cases. You know, these detectives, these law enforcement officers, they get so invested in some of these cases, they can't let them go. I imagine, especially early on in the first couple of years, it's hard to kind of turn their their minds off when they get home. Probably 24-7, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's got to be very tough for them to the point where this guy is retired and he still wants to find her. He stores checking leads. I'm sure there's not a day that goes by that he doesn't give a thought about the case. So before embarking on the search, approximately 12 volunteers from Texas Equusearch Midwest equipped themselves with the necessary tools. It's a big search company. Yeah, they're pretty famous, right in the world of true crime, started in Texas by a man who I believe lost a child. I can't remember his name off the top, my head. But they provided assistance in so many missing persons cases, and they've actually made quite a few recoveries. Before the search, the organization's director, Dave Rader, researched the location using Google Earth. He was trying to figure out what the area look like in 1999 and discovered that it was just as heavily wooded then as it is today. In preparation, he printed old and current maps to provide assistance to the team. The search tools used by the Texas Equusearch volunteers were relatively simple. They had a shovel and metal rods resembling canes that enabled them to detect air pockets beneath the topsoil. After 30 minutes of searching, the team made a significant discovery. Bones wrapped in a child's sheet, so I'm guessing that was promising. Well, I think at the very least, they had to be extremely hopeful. After the discovery, the State Bureau of Criminal Investigation and the Green County Coroner's Office were called in to examine the bones. However, after several hours of examination, they determined that the bones actually belonged to a dog. So, you know, we talked about letdowns. Here's another one. If the family hears this, they have to be both fearful and hopeful at the same time. Sure. You're fearful. Oh, absolutely. Nobody wants to discover that their child is dead. But at the same time, they're hopeful to to find her, to bring her home, to bury her. Like I said, according to local news sources, Bob Greene commented on the disappointing turn of events, saying After so many searches, it's just another area that we've cleared. That's the way you have to look at it, especially after all these years. I mean, it's a valid point. It's another box. You check on the list, right? A few weeks after this search, dog handlers from Kentucky, along with specially trained canines, returned to that same location with hopes of uncovering a clue to Erika's location. The dogs brought to the scene were specifically trained to locate human remains and had extensive experience in recovering human bodies successfully dating all the way back to the 1800s. Additionally, they were trained to differentiate between human and animal remains. I've said it once I'll say it again, I find this fascinating. Oh yeah. You know, I've been watching some British shows lately. They call them sniffer dogs. Yeah, on the on the British shows. But the fact that you can train a dog to search out these very specific smells, human remains, animal remains, bombs, cocaine, you name it, it just fascinates me. I remember I got to meet some of these dogs at a crime con a few years ago. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, it was pretty amazing. Mm hmm. It was noted that the canines detected two different locations in the park, with one spot drawing their interest, and eventually all three dogs gathered in the same area, which was located near a creek in a tree. Unfortunately, despite the extensive search of the three locations, no body was recovered within the area. The search for Erica Baker has been ongoing for over two decades, and though there have been some promising leads and possible sightings, as we mentioned, the case remains unsolved. Erica's family and the community continue to hold out hope that her body will be discovered and justice will be served one day in 2013. The Kettering police team and the Baker family publicly expressed their concerns that Erica may have survived the hit and run accident that was previously thought to have caused her death. Misty said to HBO News that she feared that Erica may have survived the accident but was buried alive somewhere by Christian, according to Bob Greene. Christian Gabriel had never led detectives to her body, despite multiple attempts to locate her remains, he said. I think he remembers where she is, but he doesn't want us to find her because that could lead to more charges. And that's exactly what we talked about earlier. If he knows where her body is. Christian Gabriel has a vested interest in not disclosing that information to the police, for sure. It just means more jail time. Well, and it could mean a forever jail time. Oh, absolutely, yeah, forever. And he's already done, what, six years? My assumption is he doesn't want to go back. And I'm certain he doesn't want to go back for the rest of his life or possibly face the death penalty. According to CNN.com, Bob Greene provided insight into the investigation for Erica Baker, describing it as a roller coaster due to the numerous search efforts that have failed to produce any results. He said the Kettering Police Department has done a lot. We ran into a lot of what I refer to as walls, and we've always scaled those walls and we've stuck with it. So I don't think there's any doubt, Gibbs, that over the years they remain committed to trying to locate Erica or Erika's remains, right? Whatever may be. W. Incom also reported that Greg Baker said the not knowing that's what drives our family drives me to keep coming in front of the camera every year and always looking for different ways to reach out to different people. And that surfaces in a lot of unsolved cases. It does. The not knowing would be so very difficult day after day, month after month, year after year. You know, now we're what, twenty three years on and the family still has basically no answers. They got a little win, and I call it little right in this six year prison term for, you know, this guy that is thought to be implicated in this case. But it wasn't for anything having to do with really her death, her disappearance. Yeah, I mean, they just want their little girl's body back. Yeah, at this point, absolutely. According to Growcom, Kettering police detectives have built a great working relationship with Equusearch Midwest, who also continue to look for Erica. Detective Bob Greene provided the public message for those that may currently be in contact with Christian or know something about the disappearance of the girl. He told the Midtown. Come forward. If you know Christian Gabriel, talk to him, tell him to come forward and give the family the peace that they need. And I get that that makes a lot of sense. But again, I go back to why would he want to do that? It's not in his best interest. I'm sure an attorney or two has told him, Don't say anything. Stay out of the limelight. Don't say anything. Don't talk to anybody. You know, my assumption has always been that you people who do really bad things are capable of doing really bad things don't have the thought that many of us do. That runs through our head that says we need to do the right thing, right? I think a lot of those types of people don't have that. To them, the self-preservation outweighs that by a mile. Oh yeah. And in some cases, I think for for some of those people, that's all they care about is their own hide. They're not they're not worried about what the family needs or doing the right thing or, you know, giving anybody answers or closure or anything like that. You're right, it's self-preservation. The director of Equusearch Midwest, Dave Rader, requested to the Dayton public that they reach out to the authorities even 24 years after the disappearance of Eric Baker. If they have any information, according to Darby +10. David said someone had to have seen something. We want to make sure all of our bases are covered through the investigation. If you think you have something pertinent to the investigation, reach out to law enforcement. Well, you know, we've talked about this before. You said it many times. It just takes that one piece of information that sometimes can connect the dots. Well, and I always believe that there is someone out there who knows something. Number one, you've got the perpetrator. So if they're still alive, they obviously know the entire story. But I usually think there's somebody else, at least one person. Yeah, that this person confided in slipped up and told this person overheard them talk, you know? However, they found out. And. For whatever reason, maybe they want to protect this person, they've just chosen never to come forward or they're they're afraid of, you know, retaliation or something like that. I always believe that somebody else now, right? In this case, there could be more than if there was really four people in the van and there's three other people that know what's right and what it could come forward. Maybe somebody remembers a van being parked at some park that day, and maybe that's the location. I'm still leery about these three other supposed individuals, right? Because they've never surfaced. Nobody's ever linked. You don't even have a name. Yeah. So Jan was in the van. Yeah, you know, of course, she no longer around. She can't tell her story. She died many, many years ago. While the search for Erica may have reached a standstill, it's important to remember her and to honor her memory. Her family and community have continued to hold vigils and commemorate her life, showing that even in the face of tragedy, her legacy will never be forgotten. And that's something that you and I you have seen firsthand. It seems like every year there is a news story on Erica Baker. Yeah. Maybe it's because they're holding a vigil or, you know, it's an anniversary of sorts. Whatever it is, every now and then it pops up on the news. She has not been forgotten that much. I know it's one of the bigger stories in this area. Yes, absolutely. And again, I don't think that they're ever going to stop searching for answers into her disappearance where her remains are. I also think that this story, you know, it serves as a reminder, as do many of the need for continued efforts to keep children safe and to really just never forget those who have gone missing. I think it's extremely important for me. The unsolved episodes kind of serve a couple of purposes. Number one, to get the information out there, right? You never know who's going to hear the story and it's going to jog a memory, or it's going to make them think that now's the time to come forward with information they have. And then number two is always kind of honoring the victim. Yeah. And, you know, telling their story as much as you can, talking about them and and all that, all of it's important. But that's it for our episode on Erica Baker. We got some voicemails, gives you one. Check those out. Let's hear them say making give. My name is Neil. I'm from Austin, Texas. I've been listening to you for a long time. A mostly true crime all the time. Those most unsolved. But I've just finished listening to the Jack the Ripper episodes and I am just waiting for my. I need more evidence than a Webster T-shirt guy to get that out. You got to do it. I love you guys. Keep that swivel. Keep the time ticking. Yeah, the bomb tally rocker. Sure, that'd be a bestseller. Maybe bomb tally. Wacka never know. Let's do it. Oh my gosh. I had to pause while listening to the South Pole Poisoning episode, and I was laughing so hard I was literally crying. I couldn't sit up my stomach. Scared, dizzy is killing me in this episode. And when you said like, you may have noticed it if he says that I have not dope, then you just kept going. I mean, a day, I love you. We got to have a beer sometime. Did even faze you? No. But you know, I think that's part of our humor is we're not laughing about it. We're seeing if other people recognize kind of what we're saying and they do and then they find it funny. But I'm not making a big deal out of it because I want them to kind of recognize and some people will and some people won't. It just depends. Sometimes I say things, I'm like, I didn't get you like, did you did? Yeah, because sometimes I think you're expecting me to come back at you with something. But I just roll on. It's just how cool you are. Well, change it up, you know? And then sometimes I feel like I don't want to step on it. If I say something else, I'll be stepping on what you just said, which to me was really funny. And you want to ruin it? Yeah, I don't want to ruin it. Step on it like that. It's already golden. Yeah. Hey, Mike Angeli, my name is Jenny. I was calling because I literally had to pause the South Pole. Because I finally knew a movie Gabby was talking about hit the sled dog movie, it's called eight below. It's a great movie. I highly recommend that, but I just had to say that because I was so excited. I never know any of the movies he references, but I got that one. I love the show. So stay safe and keep your own time taken. Wait, did she just say she never knows? No, nobody ever knows. Because I'm the only one that is somehow connected to you. My clues are so awesome. Now I have actually seen a blow. Isn't that the one with Cuba Gooding Jr.? Or am I thinking of a different movie? I think it is. It's the other guy. Some other guy. The other guy. Well, you don't give me any actors. You say, you know, slay dogs. First of all, you need to say sled dogs. You said sled dogs. And it just threw me away, which is also a sled. Yeah, but that's true. Yeah, you're probably right. There's some guy. I don't know who he is. I think it might. Maybe it is. I think it might be Cuba Gooding Jr. Now people are going to write in and say, Oh ho ho, wouldn't you know it is or it isn't, because I think I've seen that movies because he's in a movie where he inherits is it's not him. He's in a movie where he inherits is ants, dogs. Mm-Hmm. And he has to take him on that, that famous race. Oh, but it is a sled dog movie. It is a sled dog, OK? It's just not that one. This is a different guy. OK, I'll have to look it up. Yeah, I have to look it up. I'll watch it. It's good. Eventually, I watch all the movies except for the incredible Mr. Limpet. In a way, I refuse to watch that movie. Maura hijacked your network and people make sure it's on all TVs. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime all the time unsolved. So for Mike and Gabi, stay safe and keep your own time ticking. 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