Ep. 172 - Maria Konnikova: Am I a Con Artist?

Transcript

Podcast Warren Presents The Steve Austin Show, Classics Corruption Here and the Broke Go Ranch Dog. Leon White, also known around the world as Big Van Vader, coming to me from Where Are You at? Leon in Boulder, Colorado today. We got a lot of work. God dang, man. We've been talking about getting together on a podcast and shooting the breeze. And you reached out to me through an email and it was so good to hear from you because I've been wanting to get you on the show and just really basically wondering in general how you were doing because I hadn't heard from you in so many years. How are you feeling right now? I feel good. I mean, I'm probably in better shape than I've been in the last 20 years. Physically, mentally, things are going well. You know, I'm in the gym every day and I'm I'm on the road a little bit here, so things are going good. And, you know, talking about knowing you, how do we go back? We met in the early 90s at WCW, and I don't even remember the first time we met. You know, I really don't know. I don't know. I don't remember. I just remember. We hit it off and you had a hell of a run in WCW as the lead heel, but we're just shooting the breeze on a family friendly show. There's going to be a bomb here. They're dropped, but we're not going to drop F-bombs while we're talking on this hour. But I want to go back to again and because you know, hell, I forgot, you know, you've been for Boulder, Colorado, for so long. I remember not in that area, you know, I just assumed that that's where you're from. But I little did I know that you were born in L.A. I was born in Compton, California. Actually at the hospital thinks St. Francis Hospital in Lynwood. That we were living in Compton and they were. But you grew up fast in that part of Los Angeles in the 60s. You got concerned. Not quite. Quite frankly. I mean, you know, Compton, as you get older, you get a whole lot of white folks living in Compton. But back in the 60s, were there a lot more white people in Compton at the time? Yeah. You know, it was it was probably about a 60-40 deal. And my mother had an aunt and lived there. She had a big, nice home in Compton. And excuse me, my mother had a sister, sister and my aunt. And we kind of settled next to her. My dad was working. He was a Navy Navy diver, and he he could weld in the water, so he worked it down. San Pedro in from Compton. That was just 10 15 minutes away. So it was a good sport for us to live. And we lived right there on the boulevard, right right next to Compton College. And you know, when we got there as a when I was a young kid, you know, it was it was a nice place to live. And as time went on, it got more dominant in terms of, you know, a lot, a lot of the I really don't know how to say this, but a lot of the white people were leaving town and the neighborhood was becoming more of a black neighborhood and it was a rough place to grow up. I mean, they knew you wanted to live in Compton, California, you had to earn it. Let's put it that way. Well, how long were you there because you went to Bell High School, right? Because that's not Compton High School. How'd you end up over at Bell? My father, he invented the you know that electrical waste when they host cars and work on the mufflers underneath. Yeah. Okay. Well, my dad actually invented it and sold it for, I think, $2000 to a couple guys. And then they became millionaires. And he, my dad, had actually built the first one because he was a welder and he was getting in those pits the what they used to do to drive cars over a little pit in the ground and you'd get in there and lay on your back and will these mufflers and fix and stuff like that. And he he kind of was he he was a smart man and pretty creative and those types of things. And he built his hoist and it just lifted it up and you could stand there and cut this thing off and working. And he didn't know what he had, and then he sold it. And guys mass produced that and, you know, made millions of dollars in Los Angeles, you know, and all these muscle shops across country now got him. So we were doing pretty well and he was making good money when we moved out to Anaheim. But one of those new houses they had toward him put on one of those orange groves and built, built some little small single-family homes. And then from there we migrated back to Bill and I went to school. But I wonder, you've always been a big guy. We were talking earlier. And your mother was like four feet. How many inches tall? Well, my mom, God bless you. Thank you for bringing it up. She she of my life. I'll tell you what. She's four foot 10 and just tough her nails, and she's 87 years old today. She walks a half hour a day out with me, that's for sure. But where she lives now, she lives in central California. My sister and brother up there, and it's a little mountain town, just a couple of hours north of Sacramento, and they'd like it up to 30 or 35 feet. So they don't, they don't get much. And it's a little bit cooler in the summer, Sacramento gets pretty hot now, and they're doing great. But anyway, she she's four foot 10 and the doctor grabbed my dad said, Hey, you know, we don't know what you have in there, but it's big and he's coming out now. So seven months and three weeks, I came out of 10 pounds and 16 ounces and 23, three and a half inches long. And I guess the thinking on that was if they did not induce labor when they did it, it probably would've killed them, all of you know, giving me birth. And I was just just too big for man. And he was sick for my grandpa was six, six, six and redheaded guy. So know I got my from dad Datsun family, obviously. So you start growing up, are you bigger than everybody in every single class you're in? Yeah. You know, for a long time, I mean, I had I kind of felt out of place a little bit awkward. Socially, I was, you know, fourth grade. I'm a foot taller and everybody, you know, 50, 60, 70 pounds, every everybody. And I, you know, I was overweight, but I wasn't fat and I was just I was big, right? I remember my dad was he was he used to cook this on Sunday morning food and that was his thing. And he could cook, you know, eggs and sausage and bacon and pancakes and just anything you want grits. And he he that was his deal. And you know, I polished off 10 15 eggs and two pancakes, and I got up from that table and I guess he took a look at my butt. I stood up and turned my back and stretched my hands, and I was all about seven or eight years old. And he looked at me and said, Son, you got to do something because you're just getting too big, too fast. So he, you know, he grabbed me by the wrist and took me down to pop Warner Football and sign me up. So I thought the exercise of doing me good. They said, Well, you know, how old is your son? He said, Well, know, I don't really remember I was seven or eight. And they said, you have to play with either the nine and 10 years old and maybe the 10 or 11 year olds. And let me tell you something, Steve, that's a big difference when you're that age and right, it is. I literally got the, you know what beat out of me. I got on that scale and they said, You know what? He can play 10 years old, but he's going to have to lose 20 pounds to do that. So that's football career started and, you know, kind of went on from there. OK, so you go to high school and you're playing at Bell High School, you're all-American, you're all Los Angeles. And you were saying you were telling me that hell. The Los Angeles team was tougher to make. The all-American team was the competition. The roster of talent coming from that area that deep? Well, the L.A. Well, you know, Steve, I know you're from Texas, and I've had some heated conversations with people from Texas, and there's a lot of good football states and cities in Los Angeles, California. I mean, they put out a lot of good football players in Texas and certainly one of them. But just for the record, you know, and I understand Los Angeles has a lot of people in it. They've got over 800 high schools now. And back then it was five or six hundred high schools. So just in sheer numbers, you know, Los Angeles puts up more more high school America's more college All-Americans, more pros, more all pros and more Hall of Fame football players than any other city and country. So we played good football in competition, breeds excellence and we I think we lost. We lost two football games in four years of my career. So we were in a city, a city championships every year. And you know, you could make all state. You could make all-American and you could you could make all conference with the team to make the hard team to make that Los Angeles team. And I was fortunate enough to make that all Los Angeles team. Like I said, there's some good football players in Los Angeles and you know, you look on their roster, that first team, all Los Angeles team back in my era and you'll see guys go on to college and pros and, you know, all throw in, et cetera, et cetera. So you're Bill High School now what position on the line you play in? Well, I was at offensive and defensive tackle. I was a two way starter at Bill High and I loved playing defense. I mean, that that was really my position and probably just wouldn't play fast enough, you know? So why would Colorado? That's why you stated offensive line. Yeah. In other words, when they recruited me, they recruited me and I had a bunch of sacks in high school in the bunch tackles and kind of thought of offensive line linemen as being my second position. I could play it and I could do well at it. But I, you know, just my love and my heart was, was that a decent sport, either on the inside track or the outside tackle? And you know, I would shift back and do a linebacker from time to time because, you know, on the high school level, you know, I could run at those. You know, you got into college, you guys are faster, and they looked at me and said, Well, you're a senator and a guard. And so I got to the University of Colorado and started out a guard and started my freshman year and ended up being all conference and all-American and guard my junior year. And then I moved up to tackle. And we played both sides. So I started with all five offensive line positions. And I was a preseason all-American tackle going into my first senior year, and it was against Texas Tech and I ruptured a medial meniscus. So I got red shirted, got my fifth year, moved into center and really trying to find a home I love soon. And it turned out, you know, the lateral movement I had, you know, snapped that ball and cut off the front side one technique. And for those people that don't understand that, you've got to play running to the right and you're the center and you got to, you got a man in that front side gap. In other words, you got to cut him off and he's already he's already two feet to the right of you, right where he plays going, and you've got to get your body on the other side of him and cut him off. So when you talk about a center cutting off that frontside technique, that one technique that's hard to do and moved on to the Los Angeles Rams and, you know, played for a few years and participated in that Super Bowl that the Rams played in and never started as a professional football player. There was a gentleman by the name rich, so he he had that center position also that he was a 16 17 year All-Pro boy. I'll tell you what he was good at. Being center in the NFL is, you know, it's it's about being big and strong, but it's more about experience and knowledge and anything. And this guy was was an All-Pro and the best. And, you know, it wasn't about beating him out. It was about wait until he got done and gave it up. And then, you know, and that's just that's just the bottom line. And that guy was that good. So I was in the preseason game and I had played three quarters a preseason game against the Dallas Cowboys. And you might remember this coming from Texas from you. Remember that and Randy White, his old man. I barely remember that guy. Yes, everybody in the world, especially from Texas, knows that it was, you know, I was scared to death and Randy was starting. You know, Liane, here's your shot. You wanted it. And I said, Well, you know who's? Who's ready? Why? No, no, I'm good. But I shot Randy well for three quarters and no tackles, no sacks. So how are you going to head to head with with Randy White? He's all favorite, would you say? I mean, he had he had speed in the strength, you know, he was 500 plus plus Tom dispersive back then and really had moved in from linebacker. So the thing the thing that I matched up well with Randy is I had quickness and I had shrink the matches. And then Randy being the linebacker, he didn't have long arms, right? And really, for like if I was coming up today, I'd be a good football player and I might might still get up into the NFL. But the NFL offensive guard's not necessarily centers, but the offensive guards in the tackles. Do they have longer arms? And these guys are recruited for this, and it's simple that the defensive linemen have long arm. So if you're a big, strong offensive guard and your arms are four inches shorter than that guy across the line from you, just pure mathematics and the sheer geometry is going to tell you he's going to get his hands on you first. And boy, that's a big deal. And then he's got his hands on first, and you can't. And you're just you don't have to hold him. You can't get a grasp on if he's going to beat you, right? So in today's NFL, I would definitely be a sinner today because it's more about positioning than it is, you know, having longer arms. So the thing that I matched up well, Randy, is, you know, he was a linebacker converted to a defensive tackle, so his arms was a real zone and got on a sweet Steve. And I could back to catch cornerback to slicing and backside to get to tailback on a sweep, right? And I planted my right leg in that particular turn and just exploded. And that was it. But I woke up and took a big hit from cornerback cause I planted that leg and boy stuck in Selma right under my jaw and I woke up and I mean, I was I was out and I kind of set up and I couldn't see my right leg. And when that goes and I looked in it, it just made that to me and hit me a 90 degree turn right turn. You know, I mean, I could see it. Oh, there it is. It's over to the side and to the back. That's not a good story. Well, up until Chin and both ligaments both coverages and, you know, the Rams just put me in hospital and fixed it all up. So there you are, Leon, you. What do you weigh in while you're playing football? Three, 15, I was big for the area. I mean, most, most guards and shooters back then were in the, you know, 280, 275, 285 range of 350. And what do you mention? You mentioned 600 at the time. I was probably, you know, five, 25, 25, maybe five, thirty five in that range. What kind of weapon? Well, I was forty five for nine. Pretty quick for it, and that's pretty good for me. That's yeah. I mean, you know, for me, 350 pounds was light. So, you know, I had I had good legs and good strength, and you will see that I could run that after that injury, but that's about 40 times coming out of college. I was I was legitimate heights. Well, six, three and five eights. And that was that was with an NFL measuring stick. And, you know, they're pretty rough on their height. They don't give nothing. I'm saying in the six, three and five age and I was like 315 pounds and I did a single rep at five five in the quarter and then did that to record. I did it 54 times and you know, an NFL lineman today is doing it 35 or 40. So I was pretty strong and had a lot of endurance on that rest. But you just got to remember week that the NFL that did was to do a blood testing for any kind of substances that might be in your body. So we we were able to take advantage of things that they're not necessarily able to take advantage of today. You know, I hear what you saying loud and clear. So you go from having all the materials, all the the size of speed, the strength. To be a dominant offensive lineman in NFL, you get your leg cut out, you blow out the skeleton and the Los Angeles Rams Plan B, you go back to bill and start selling real estate. Did you graduate from Colorado and get a business degree to do that at the University Colorado? I did graduate with a business degree. And when you said I went back to Bill, that was I believe I made a mistake in the notes. No, I came back to Boulder. When I, I stayed in L.A., I got a pretty good bonus and I had bought a four plex right there in the North Long Beach. It was about three three blocks off the beach and I was living in that the big three bedroom apartment on the ground floor and I had three two bedroom apartments in the back. So first thing I did would put that up for sale and realized there was nothing for me in L.A. and you know, I growing up there. I had two sets of friends. I had friends that were lost and just ran friends and. And once you're not part of the team, I mean, they it's kind of weird. You get hurt and they don't want you around because it's kind of a bad omen right there. And so I wasn't like, I was going to be buddies with these guys. And then then, you know, your buddies in high school that were, we're still living in there and that's that is inner city L.A. that's south central bell south park and all that. So that was a whole different that was a whole different life for me, and I didn't want to get back into that environment. So the first thing I did is I went back to Boulder, Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, and that area was small, little sleepy town. And I didn't know predominately white and safe. Let me put it, that was safe for me because I was the type of individual that could have gone either way at that point, right? And so I got my real estate degree and went to class and started selling real estate. And if you're in your early, no one is right now and you spent a big part of your life in the business of professional wrestling, but you haven't mentioned it one time, really. Basically as a part of your growing up, did you watch the business as a kid? Were you a fan of this of the business back in the day or was it purely, I'm a football player, and that's it? No, that's the question. I saw myself be honest with you as a football player, I was going to I was going to play 15 years and you'll make as much money as I could and pay off my house, you know, have a family and then get into coaching, coaching football. And I think that I really missed my calling because that's that's my passion of coaching. And I'm good at it and I just flat out good at it. And someday I hope I get an opportunity to be in that, be in that situation where I can can coach young kids, whether it's football, baseball, wrestling, what about coaching some pro wrestling? I mean, to me, you know, while watching your mannerisms in the ring, I was watching a lot of old footage of you. One of the things that I've always liked about you, just just your main streak. Just when you opened up on a guy, your demeanor, your body language and you guys, as simple as that may sound, it's a little more complex than it actually is because some people totally missed the boat on that. Did you always have that main streak and I'm not talking as a mean human being because everybody knows you got to know you as a big teddy bear and you could certainly have your moments. But in the ring, as I would probably assume on a football field, you had that killer instinct and the drive to just be dominant. And to me in football and in wrestling, you must possess that. You know, I don't know I of. As a football player and as a. A wrestler lets us take wrestling when I when I walked into the arena, I I got into character. I mean, the minute I got out of the car and grabbed my bag and parked in the underground parking lot, say we were at CNN Center in Atlanta. We'd get there early and we would park the car underneath and that underground parking. I grabbed my bag and I'd walk into the arena and I'd get in. I became Vader at that moment. And there were two distinct, you know, individuals. I guess that. That happened for me, and I started becoming better, you know, as a waste of my boots, I was putting on the mask. And as I was doing over my match, I didn't think because we didn't win the war because, you know, as Leon White, I guess I am, I'm just a different person. I really want to speculate on who I am or who I become. Right? Later on in life. But in, I guess I did the same thing in football and in the day I when I was a young kid growing up, I would go over to the high school. I would watch it and I would see the size and the strength of these guys and the aggressiveness and the coaches screaming and hollering. And that was just just instilled in me. And I guess growing up in Compton, California, I tell you a quick story, you know, and this is this is a little first of all, I don't feel bad about sharing about my father's passed away. He was a good man, but he, you know, he had his problems with alcohol. I mean, obviously there was there was no drugs and no pills involved back then. But he was a big guy six foot four, 170 pounds. And, you know, he lifted weights and he was he was big, strong and powerful, and he worked hard. He got up at four in the morning and welded all day and he'd come home and take a nap on the couch and get a shower and he'd go out and have kids have a good time. And one night he took his mother with him and they were out at one of the local bars, you know, maybe two or three miles from the house. And my sister and I were. You're sitting there and we were watching I remember this, we were watching that original series of Star Trek. And you may be too young to know, Dude, I was a big Star Trek fan. Go ahead. Then I was. I'm you were to still instilled in me, gentlemen, that I remember watching Captain Kirk on the black and white TV and knew my sister there and boy, three men. Three men were coming through the back window and one guy was already in the house and he was pulling through the second guy. So he was standing on my bed pool in the second bedroom and the third guy was pushing, you know, I could see the third guy out the window. And I mean, I just I froze, for instance. He looked at me and I looked at him. And boy, I tell you what. I screamed at my sister and I said, one and boy, I went over there and grabbed her and she froze. And then we ran out. The front door, went down and neighbors called the cops. And of course, they had left. And, you know, it was close. I had no idea what they would have done. I had no idea what they were doing in there. But my dad had some guns and a gun case. He was, you know, he had some pistols and shotguns and he'd take me hunting on the weekend, would drive out and shoot some rabbits and cook them in the evening. And I don't I don't know what I mean. We obviously didn't have them, so I don't know why they were in there and I think they're up to no good. My sister was a couple of years older than me, and she was a pretty little thing, so I was scared and think about what would have happened. But nobody knew where my dad, my mom was and called up that, you know, they were having a beer. And like I said, it's it wasn't something that was out of the ordinary for us. But this next thing this happened. My dad came back and got a 20 gauge shotgun, gave me a box of shells and said, Listen, you don't have to do it. Cops would love to know, he said. You knew how to load this thing and you know how to use it. I've taught you. He says if they come back, you know what to do. And he took a board of boards and nails in the hand and real handyman, and he boarded up that window and he went back out and finished drinking. And so I was I was eight years old at the time. My sister was 10, and that might tell you a little bit about, you know, the, you know, my ability to turn it on and turn it off right at times, at times in my life. You know, I've had trouble turning it off. You know, you got to be Vader for so long and so, so meaningful. I mean, sometimes I think I went overboard in the character, and I guess it made me real believable. And, you know, maybe I look back and think my mother might have got into that character. Too much might have worked a little too stiff. I'm sure I would have had the better success, especially in the WWE, had I been able to tone that character down and work within the framework of that particular company. And then I think that's important. Professional wrestling, you have to if you're a coach, you have to go from physician flexibility. And if you're a wrestler, you have to you have to wrestle within the parameters of flexibility. But let's just answer your question and get back to you. Said, you know, were you always going to be a football player? My high school coach was an Italian dude. And he he worked for a company down in downtown Los Angeles. And every Friday night, they had shows and we would catch a bus and he was, who is his name was coach fare down to about five foot nine and, you know, £240 Italian guy. And he worked under a mask and we'd go down and we were mesmerized by it. And I was always wrestling fan. But obviously, I gotta I gotta be honest when the first level football and that's what I pursued, but I was fascinated by the whole thing about stepping outside of that curtain. And regardless, if you're having a good day or a bad day in your life, it just goes away and you become Vader and you get in front of however many people with it, whether there's 200 or 20000. And boy, it's feeling like none other. And I got addicted to it. And to have been doing it for 30 years, not so 30 years. In the business of talking to Leon White for Boulder, Colorado, Skype Call. I hope the sound quality is good for everybody. It is what it is. Liam's over there. I'm over and over here, but we've got to do Somalia. What's best for you, the working man and the working woman? Won't come right back from a pause. Take a break. Listen to some word from my sponsors who keep us on the air for free twice a week. Ali Leah is going to talk about how he got started in the business of professional wrestling. One day working at a gym. Someone said, Hey, I've got something you might be interested in. You're listening to another classic episode of the Steve Austin show only PodcastOne. 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Appreciate you guys tuning in to out, you're probably on, why think that better when we left? We got to a little bit of invaders, but we've got to get before Vader because before he was Vader, he started off in a bad way, Leon. OK. Ex-Football player. You watched the business a little bit. You dug it. So how do you end up getting in the business? You know, really, after the loss of friends, I just got bored. I went back to Boulder, got my real estate license, start selling real estate, speculating and building a house here and selling my house. And I got bored out of my mind. I got tired of talking to women that wanted just cutting the curtain. And then this this kind of the title, my goodness said I was about ready to sit, and I went down to the local wrestling showdown in Denver and they had a call down there. I mean, visibility was enhanced and Jerry Blackwell put in a big fat hall down in Denver, Colorado. The Denver Coliseum, which held eight hundred eighty eight thousand eight hundred people and boy was jam packed. And that was exciting. I'll tell you what I put on a pair of cowboy boots and a cowboy hat, and I was I had now ballooned up to 400 plus pounds and I was in the gym and I could bid for 600 pounds. I could squat a thousand and I claim to fame. Man, I can take three hundred sixty five pounds behind my neck and jump that weight the 12 15 times in the rep. And I used to stop the gym. I mean, I don't care where I was if I was in Venice Beach, California, that that just everyone stopped, you know, because there was no one in the gym that could do that. Not that many rep. That was just my thing. I don't know why I was good at it. I was good at that overhead press and they said, that's a big deal, and that's a lot of weight to be jerking over your head. So I was bigger as a horseman and had gained a bunch of weight purposely for this meeting. I thought, Hey, the bigger, the better, right? Yeah. Do you watch the guys on TV and you're, you know, you think and they're all six, eight and all four pounds and the TV puts eyes on people. And I walked in there and really saw the size of people and said, Damn, I gained all this weight from nothing. So I did it. I didn't knock on the door, Steve. And you know, I just walked in and everybody just froze. And a guy named Bruiser Brody stood up, walked over, and I had my boots on and Brady was about six foot five and he had his boots on. And so we were about eight. He's a little taller than me, but I had a big boot on, so he said, what you want in my locker room? And I said, I'm here to get a job. That's what I read before. And I stared and right back in the eye. And Brody, you know, Brody was just no one invests with food and we all know that and the rest in peace. But he turned out to be a pretty good friend of mine, and we, uh, we had to replace his matches together. But Greg Daniels was there and a guy named Brad Riggins was there, and they come rushing over and curtain. They came rushing over and said, Hey, man, you can't be here. I said, Wait a minute, and this is who I am. And you know, I live right down the road and I played football at the University of Colorado and I played for the Los Angeles Rams and I had my Super Bowl ring on. And, you know, I was really right in Gene Reid, the promoter, in May. He rest in peace. He said, Yeah, I know who we are this. We need to talk to this guy. And he calmed everyone down to radio and said, Let me jump in here real quickly, because first of all, it's all my fans out here. You can assume that the professional wrestling dressing room has super kayfabe now and said, go way back about twenty five years or thirty years. What Leon's talking about. He first walks into this dressing room. You're talking about triple kayfabe. I mean, dude, you walked in a bad a*s area where the business was protected. And if you would just some unbeknownst and just thinking you're going to walk in on a meeting or what the boys are doing. It's a good way to get your a*s handed to you. So it was absolutely crazy. So what possessed you? Just get the idea to go in there and say, Hey, I want a job. Well, like Steve, like I said, I was going crazy selling real estate, I have a new microphone out of my mind and like I said, I got a pair of jeans on and a tight T-shirt and a £450, and I just said, You know what? I'm going to do it. And I stood by that door. I stood outside that door for an hour, probably at least an hour before I had the guts just to push it open. I open it up and walk in. So what were you thinking when Brody comes up to you face to face and you boldly say to him as a fan sitting in a chair, he is in the ring doing his thing. And of course, Brody is one of my favorite all time. He had that look and that intimidating presence set the size and again, your big man. But you talk about Bruiser Brody, the guy you've been seeing on TV. So what do you think? I thought, You know what? I bet my parents were not afraid and I was scared to death, but I wasn't going to show it yet, and I just stared him right down in the eye and said, Man, I'm here to get a job. And I was scared to death. My knees were shaking, my hands were shaking and I was I was scared to death because, like I said, you watch wrestling on TV, especially back in those days. And you know, you thought these guys weren't as tough, they were crazy and tough. And so it it took a lot of nerve to do that, but things calmed down real quickly. And Brad said, Listen, let me get a pen paper before before it, before something happens. And again, just he wrote down his name and says, You should call me and Greg Johnson. Well, we appreciate you coming in and engage with Gene Reid, who had come over and shook my hand, said, No, no, there's no way he's he was, you know, we had an appointment. I didn't think we'd meet in the locker room like this, and Gene was getting all the gene calmed everyone down and. Next thing I know, man, I got my bags packed and I'm in my car on my way to Minnesota. And you know what? What a trainer, what a career, he said. Because he's put out some big, big names, you know, and I can't name them all. But, you know, a lot of great guys. So. But what was training camp like for you? Because you always hear the standard, OK, we're going to do him do squats and pushups or air conditioning? What was Brad's methodology? I mean, what was it learned how to take a bump? Brad, obviously, is known for his Olympic level wrestling great amateur background. So what was his protocol to teach you who would go on to become Big Van Vader? But right now you still had white? Well, he broke into groups and, you know, there were some kids there that, you know, maybe didn't possess the athleticism and, you know, you know what he was doing. He was really good at what he did. And we started off with a two mile run in that four and 15 pounds that, you know, that was it for me. But I finished a two mile run and it was like it was time for me to go back to the hotel. And then in reality, it was just the beginning. And then then we got started for a three hour workout. And, you know, we started out with the basics walking up and Brad, Brad, he liked to shoot with this, you know, he wanted to see what you were made of. He said, Do you have any wrestling school skills? And I said, No, but you know, that is if you look at him, he's he's, what, five foot eight or nine? And you said I could handle this guy. But the bottom line is, I mean, this guy is built like a fire hydrant, built like a coke machine and stronger back in this particular point in time. And you know, he was training for the 1980 Olympics and then go to the United States out of it, which would cost Brad millions of dollars and probably that gold medal because he was the odds on favorite to win the gold, right? And this guy wasn't this tough. He was super tough. He was five foot eight, five foot nine. He might not look like Superman, you know, standing in front of you. And you know, here I am, a six foot four midget. You know, Gordon, that in the film tape and in the 400 plus pounds and this throwing all this weight around. And I said, Well, heck, I'm just going to I just walked up and stood in front of him and he he said, pair up. So I just walked over to him and thought, Well, heck, I'll just throw him around and show him what's up and what's up. You know, I'm going to keep going. This is great. Well, Brad Radians, he was I mean, you talked about wrestling fanatic. He had a big nice four or five bedroom home and he had a float because we're talking about Minnesota enclosed pool, jacuzzi, everything. And you know, he just he filled up with dirt and cement and just poured that that pool over the cement so he could start his wrestling school. And I always thought, what a shame that that beautiful pool, that beautiful jacuzzi, that he didn't leave this little portable. It was a. In other words, it was a toilet. And what he had done is he'd built a little square around the toilet so that, you know, you didn't have to go to his house. Investors didn't have Gordon's house to the restaurant, right? And boy, you know, we walked up and we started moving and you had good feet work and I was kind of pass blocking and really didn't know what I was doing. And we got rougher and rougher and rougher and rougher and rougher. And the next thing the know, man, I am inside of this bathroom. If you put my head, Steve, right through that door, I mean knocked it off its hinges, cracked my head bleeding, and I put my hand on all fours and my face is staring down in the toilet. You know what I'm saying? He got he got to the side and he grabbed the back of my head and just ran right into that door. And boy, I tell you, you talk about an attitude adjustment. I got up out of that. I got out and I was madder than him. I kicked that door and that door went flying and I went over and got mine and said, Yes, sir, what's next? Well, it just amazed me. I mean, this little guy just took me in and handled me like Rag Doll, and that was after the greatest stories I've ever heard in my life. Yes, sir. What's next? And you is going to go over and show Brad Riggins what's up? I believe he did. Have he manhandled me? I mean, I put up a pretty good tussle in it for about 10 seconds, I think. And Buddy, he was just playing with me, getting getting his feet in position, got to the side of me and this, I mean, just ran my head right through that door. I mean blood and bust that door off bolted changes crafted and flip it over in another with the toys on my back and I'm on all fours and I'm staring in the toilet and head. The bad thing about it was the guy before we had that for us to talk. So it were all of that 2002 episode of Raw and Vince and Hunter was good enough to bring me back for that. And Brock Lesnar and I had never met a gentleman. And you know, Brock is a beast, and he had been trained by Dracula, and Ross was kind of looking at me and I. I'm got up and I went over and shook hands, and it is my honor to meet you. We started talking about Brad and boy, I brought up the story and he just started laughing. When you said, Leon, that's information thing I've ever heard. He said, he said, we kind of give you. You tried and I said, yeah, I didn't try very long, buddy, but I will what what the kind of? Were there any other guys that were in the class with you that ended up making it in the business or making it big time? Well, you know, Rothstein was down there and he had already went to a school, but he was, I think he was hanging on. He was hanging around Minnesota trying to get our database. So he was coming to the class and, you know, he was kind of helping out. Brad, you know, he was a student, but he was an experienced student. Now what would you what your thoughts early on on on a standard. Because man, that dude, you talk about compact, dense, muscular and super strong and a good shooter. What was your impressions of Rick Stein early on? Well, it was Rob, not Rick. And well, I don't say Rob, but but he would change his name to Rick because their name is Rick Snyder. So anyway. So Rob Stein, yeah. Well, you know, if you just think about that story, I just told you and Rob Rick was he was actually a college wrestler, too. He was an all-American. He didn't go as far as Brad Pitt. So I kind of had a had a newfound respect for for anybody that was a wrestler, whether it was high school college or especially the Olympics. And he was a nice guy and he was very helpful, very instructive. You know, we got along good, but you know, all the c**kiness in me was gone and I was there to learn and work hard. And but he was a physical specimen of my god. Back back in that day, just like you said, complex, strong. Quick. Just I remember watching him. I guess first time I started seeing Rick Steiner, I think he was still going to rob Rick daughter back then. Entire Pro Mid-South, I think, was working for Bill Watts. And I saw this guy. I was like, Jesus Christ. Another maybe and maybe two fifty. But I mean, the most dense two hundred and fifty thousand strong as hell, you could just see what he was doing on television, but just just totally impressive. So you guys were there at the school. How much training did Brad put you through before you got into your first match inside the squared circle? Well, you know what, a lot of the first thing you want to do is if you if you had what it took and it was, it was all about physicality. In other words, when we wrestled, we shot. It was just just conditioning. And, you know, he'd do squats in London. It put you on the bike, would hit the ropes, would do push ups that if it was that type of thing, if you got through, if you survived that and then then he started teaching wrestling that he wasn't going to waste his time and teach everyone. Like you said, it wasn't just back then, it was triple canopy, right? So he wouldn't give up the business until he thought you were going to make it right. And you know you the class of 15 20 kids, and you know, that will dwindle down to four or five pretty quick. And you know what? I'm sure sure, Brad got his money up front, so it didn't matter him. He he narrowed it down and made that cut. And, you know, I would go nowhere. And then we started coaching and he started coaching, wrestling in psychology. And like I said, I can't say enough about Brad Riggins and his ability to coach. And, you know, I know preventing was trained by him. Recruit Scott Hall was there. You remember a guy named Berserker, he kind of had a gimmick like Brody. Yeah, okay. He was down there. I mean, it just the list just goes on and on about who brings it and Brock Lesnar and on and on. But I went over there and I remember Brad said, you know, had told Verne Gone and so burns on you and Greg on actually came over to the camp and we put on a little show for him. I gave him a little five minute match and was pressing people over my head suplex and then move moving and hit the ropes. And they said, Well, how much do you weigh? And I said, Well, I'm about four twenty now. I've lost some weight since I got here. And. You know, do a couple of things off the top rope and, you know, so they they were impressed and you know, I remember Byrne shaking Brad's hand saying, good job, you know, we can use this guy. And he was running strong and they had one heck of a talent roster, Steve. I mean, they had Michael Hayes and the Freebirds. They had the Shawn Michaels, Shawn and Michael. They had Jennings got Halston handsome bruiser Brody. I mean, that list just kept going on and on of the talent that they had their time and they were doing pretty good business. And that was back when we had the regional territories. You know, New York had their territory and they had the territory. But, you know, they would probably do 20 25 days a month. And I was getting about half of those and was happy to get it. But well, man, when you mention those names, Leo, I mean, just as far as a couple of them, you said a hell of a group of names there. A lot of Hall of Famers go with the road warriors and then, you know, Bam Bam, part of the Freebirds Hansen and Brody there, man. That's a that's a hell of a damn roster. So who you're working with and your first match is an NWA court hearings. All famers got lower levels. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stan Hansen and Bruiser Brody and Jerry Blackwell. Yeah, I mean, Jerry. I mean, he was five foot 10. You know, big, big, big guy. But he was 400 and got, you know, nearly 500 pounds and that guy could drop kick. So I mean, that was good for me. It was a great place to watch because there was once I got out of that camp, it was kind of like, you know, Hey, this guy is not just strong, he's real strong and he's real dangerous because he's green and he wants to do well. So first thing they did was take me with the bruiser Brody. And, you know, it wasn't about like, Hey, I'm going to teach you some psychology, but bruiser Brody just beat the hell out of me for three months and I was black and blue, and I salute you for that. You want to bruiser Brody Story? Okay? We're learning the walking and a whole lot of people. And Brody was barking around the ring, and I'm standing there looking stupid in the referee's ten. He's barking and doing circles, and he walks over and says, Kid, kid, just just relax. Stay right here. I'll be back. And we were in that Green Bay, Wisconsin indoor auditorium. It must have held 50000 people. Brody's barking around all the people and then took off and went all the way to the top of the stadium in the Zoom bar and somehow worked his way back down, got back in the ring, walked over to me and I'm standing there like an idiot. It didn't ring, and then the bullet hit me in the mouth and then let me tell you it was not a working boot. I took a hit on the back and he had a chair in his hand, and the chair obviously had Milwaukee cheer company on that chair. OK? And it was. It was engraved in that chair and he hit me in the back right in front of the referee because his intent was to get disqualified. And that was it. He didn't like something. He was upset about something because I remembered Nick Barclaycard was the was the booker and him and him and Nick had some words before the match. Maybe it's because he had to work with me because it just was just greener than green. I don't know. But he booted me in the face. I went down, I got up. He took that chair and hit me in the back. Steve, I've never been hit so hard in my life and I'm talking about throughout, you know, as a rookie with the loss of a rebellion. HEXO, HEXO, Reynolds. Yeah, okay. Laxalt was just a man. I mean, he was six foot two and two hundred and seventy five pounds. And boy, he he got right in front of me and he came in on a blitz, the pass, and he hit me right under the chin and knocked me out cold. And I thought that I'd never get hit harder net in my life and bruiser Brody hit me with that chair and it literally knocked me out. I went down to my face and I was laying there in the ring and I couldn't move. I opened my eyes and I actually took my fingers to make sure they were open and I still couldn't see I was. I was black. Yes, I went into the locker room and Kurt could, who was just in my book, was one of the all time great individuals. Just funny, fun to be around. I drove with him and Scott got my head, had developed the friendship back then, and Kurt Hating and Scott came over and said, Let me see your back and he starts laughing and he got everyone around it. On my back was and traded the Milwaukee chip company, and he had hit me so hard that Doug literally had had made an impression on my back, and you literally could read it so very well that I've never been. Is harder than my life, and so from from brutal glory, I went to Stan Hansen. And you know, that wasn't much better, and then I finally got to jury Black told me he had a softer, softer side to him. He was a big, tough guy. Don't get me wrong, but he started teaching me a little bit, and from there I started learning, you know, Master started improving. Well, let's go back to the bruiser Brody story what you liked with the chair after the big boot to the gourd you. It's a little conversation that happens after the goings on in a match. Did did you just say, Hey, watch up or shake hands? Or are you just going about your business? Because obviously you were out there thinking it was going to work a match and not so much? Well, no, he came up to me. He came up to me and suckers out and said, Leon, that wasn't about you. I apologize. I hope you're all right. And he wasn't apologetic, but he explained it that there's some things going on and you know that I was in no position. I mean, again, this is this is the road he was, you know, making big money over in Japan and really was doing this part time for Garnier on his days off from Japan. But he had a full schedule with Bob, as did Stan. So Stan and Brody would come together and, you know, Stan Hansen in his prime and bruiser voting. Yes, Brian, let me tell you what there it was to mean, 'cause I mean, they they could get in the ring and flag, get the job done. And I can't say with that person, so I'm let it go. Go ahead. Get it done. Well, they could try to climb a tree. Let me tell you what Rubin wrote in his prime. Six foot five, 340 pounds and no fat on him. And you know, he was in shape. You know, he he didn't drink. He did, you know, it's in the same way stance and was, you know, wasn't quite as tall as Brody, but about three forty. And then tell you what, maybe that was a tough job. You're listening to another classic episode of the Steve Austin show only on PodcastOne. How was the early matches with Stan Hansen, because in a little bit, we'll get to some of your famous matches in Japan was Stan Hansen with the I incident, but how will stand Hansen early on? You're the green guy in the business here, Stan Hansen, several years ahead of you're a veteran and a tough one. What's a big name? So how were those matches with Hansen in the early days? You know, I've never had a match quite like the one I had with Brody. But you know what, Stan basically said, you know his his attitude. So you want to be a wrestler, you're a big football star and you're a big kid. And you know, he's heard all the stories about how much weight I was throwing around in the gym. And, you know, it's kind of like marking your territory. And he, well, he did that. I mean, you know, I've taken that clothesline and just flipped me over in all four pounds of, you know, I've taken his big boot and it was kind of a process was where I felt in my mind that there was dues to be paid. And then, you know, you had to take take what they were given and keep your mouth shut and get back in the next day to a degree and for a period of time. And that's that's what happened with me is like, you know, I took it and took it. I felt I paid my dues. And then there came a time in the point where it just all of a sudden, Yeah, you know what? I am 400 pounds and I can do for six hundred. And you know what? I don't think you could do this if if I let you do it right. In other words, there was a definite respect and it was I paid my dues. I gave them my respect and I learned. And once I got to the point where I felt I was competent in the ring to have a match, then I started demanding to be given one. And if it didn't happen, well, then you have to prove it. Yeah, yeah. But that but that's the process. Yeah, go on, pay your dues. You're going to take some shellac. And as part of that process, and along with that kind of dues comes the learning curve. And then all of a sudden you start equal and things are like, OK, now here's what the story is. All due respect, yeah, I know who you are, but this is who I'm turning into right now. So who came up with that? What did you start off when there, Leon? Were you the baby boulder or bull power? I started off actually in college as the baby bull. There was a senior all-American lineman at University of Colorado. He just called me the baby bull. And then as I got to be a sophomore, junior and senior, it went from the baby bull, the bull power and then my senior year. You know, they just called me the bull. And so I I naturally took that nickname from college football and gave the bull power. And I got some leather straps around my wrists and shaved my head and put, you know, I was going bald anyways, up top. So I got those horns and, you know, kind of took that idea off the roadways a little bit and just tried to come up with something. And so I started out in need. Has the willpower or just the bull? OK, so the road boys are there that when they when I saw you do the haircut gimmick, were they saying, Hey, this is a gimmick infringement or were they cool with what you were doing? They didn't say a word, but I mean, they were, you know, the road warriors were number one to have them in the world for a long, long time. They were making a ton of money, and I always got along with animal and hawk, so they never said anything. And you know what? My hair was so lightened and Hawk was pretty similar to mine, and Anjos was different. But I remember having a conversation talk. I said, You know, with the way my hair is receiving and getting thin, I really don't have anything else to do other than shave it. And I tried that and that didn't look good. So I drew the horns back and they were fine with that. They would, you know, again, they were they were making a ton of money on the gimmick, sells the merchandise and they were they were getting paid a lot of money. You know, it just it didn't affect him and it just wasn't a problem for them, you know? Did you see Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannetty were there, the rockers, but not rockers? Did you see greatness on those kids at an early age? Or did you see that there was a couple of paint and ash guys who were pretty athletic and all the girls liked them? Well, you know what? That that was the case. They were a pain in the a*s and they did have the girls. Let me tell you what John and Marty had to. You know, they they had a following a little girls, just you. A little 15, 16, 17, 18 year old women just go from town to town and big crowds came. They were talented, dope and you know, specifically Shawn, he had been in the business at that time less than a year. And you know, he could have he could have a great match and sleep, and he had the long hair back then. And, you know, he had the blond haired, blue eyed pretty boy. And then let me tell you what he could let go, you know, it was impressive to. Sean, at that early age. You know, it was just it was just natural for him. Marty, obviously was, you know, the second part of that tag team. It was very good himself. And, you know, he looked good in those tan. I'll tell you what, it was impressive to watch him, you know? And then again, that whole crew was Hall of Fame Kurt innings in the Hall of Fame. Oh, I know, I know what you thought about Kurt. I know you struck up a friendship with Scott and he just got into the Hall of Fame. And of course, I followed Scott from way back and managed to get a very, very talented guy. But what were your early impressions of the Freebirds? Michael Hayes was was to me. You know, he was the kind of the leader of that group. Of course, you had BamBam, who was a big talent and then the third part of the group. I forget his name and I apologize. I'm sure you did, Robert. Yeah, okay. To me that you know what of all the talent that was there to me, the Freebirds was the best actor on the show. I mean, from and I'm talking about from the point and especially Michael Hayes from the point of walking out the curtain and getting in that room and putting on a show. And we're talking about tag teams best as they always were six minutes. And then I'll tell you what I was. I was a mark watching these guys work and bam, bam was where he was. He was right around 300 pounds. Yeah, probably. I don't know, six, three or four. But he could move. He could flat get it, and he hit those ropes and move, and they had their act down from Japan. Did you watch that, Gordy, any over Japan later on? No, I never hooked up with him. I was with the Nokias. He was with Barbara him in the gym and Dr. death took quite a bit. But for the air, they were ahead of their time. Not only work in the ring, but the whole thing the music, the hair, the look and everybody else was kind of step behind. But I mean, all that talent there, you know, you know, you talked about bruiser building Stan and we've been through this list. I thought. I thought the best of the best of that, that group in that era was Freebirds. They just they had when they came to Dallas, I was playing football at North Texas State University. I used to drive up to the sport at Orient and drink beer to watch the Von Erichs fight the Freebirds. And that damn Michael Hayes used to piss me off to no end what he was doing his job. And he's one of my favorites of all time if you talk trash all day long. And then they backed it up in the ring, and he was a heat seeking missile on a microphone. And then you had big, gaudy and they're laying the heat down, and Buddy Roberts was that guy that everybody thought they could kick his a*s. They just got their hands on him, and it was just pandemonium there. The at him. So I was a big fan of the Freebirds surprise are not in the Hall of Fame yet, but talking about the whole thing. They've got the four horsemen in there, right? So they they have the ability to put a group of people in like a tag team. And I know Michael is Mr. Hayes, and the associated with the WBA briefly worked for him. And I don't know why that had happened because of the Fabulous Freebirds. Well, they were ahead. They were 20 years ahead of their time and could flat anything put on the show. They what? Probably of the three Bam was probably the best worker. Yes, but it wasn't about individual work. It was about that team effort in the show. The bottom line was entertainment, and they flat got a job and I was really impressed with Michael and the look. And like you said he could, he could get it all on the mike. But now we burned to work for as a promoter. Well, my mom always told me, if you've got nothing good to say to me, you probably shouldn't say it, but you make good money. Yeah. And you know, if you were, if you were on the show, he did well. You know, I thought he was fair, especially to me, just starting out. And, you know, Greg Daniels actually running the show and Verne kind of took a backseat. And then there was a there was a gentleman by the name of big autobahns that had actually had the world title. And we're talking going back to this. This is one generation of talent. And then you went back to Andre and Hulk Hogan in that group. And then they all migrated up north up to District Man and the WWF at that time. And then he refilled it again with this new group. And you know, what I haven't mentioned was they were part of this group, too, but he turned me onto a big advance and I jumped at the chance. I looked at that roster and said, Well, I believe in myself, and I believe I could correct that roster and become a major winner there. But you know, I like the idea of going drinking some cold beer and getting over Europe and starting out fresh and getting another style under my belt. So I took that off. A Big Big Island made me an offer to come over there and offered me a guaranteed. Money was gone, and when I was over there and the Austrian boy was beautiful, beautiful time, one life, you know, had a lot of fun. So coming out of the cook, coming out of AWB, you'd been out roughly two years as you were coming along. Pretty good as a hand in the ring. Yes, sir. And then you get to autobahns, want you to come down here to the CWA and you say, Hey, man, it's going to be a good move for you. Vern also felt this is a good move for you to get a little bit more learning and get a little bit more experience. Well, the way it was brought to me was Leon know, hey, look at the talent we got in front of you and we believe that you could become something special. But you know, there's a long list here and you know, again, you're talking about the road was a fabulous free person, you know, just to be on that line up to get on that card was something else. The world was a freebirds, you know? Jerry Blackwell, Stan Hansen, then bruiser Brody, Kurt Jennings. Well, Ernie Michael, everything you're mentioning is the main event match. So where were you on the card? You know, I was going to say this for a little bit later, but myself and Scott Hall and great guy, you know, they were playing up the ramp thing, you know, real big and they would tag us up and I would get into the main it. And in that in that aspect and we thought Larry Abisko and Muscle Saito and another big Japanese kid, and that's how muscles worked with me and Massa had the KinderCare himself got a little trouble. I don't want to get into it, but they spend a little time in the hoosegow and they got out and muscle. You know, he was in to what he was eating in prison because he came out of prison. He was about 300 pounds in muscles that he was in that gym every day. He's just not. There wasn't, but about five, nine and 300 pounds and was just thick. As solid as your wall. You're sitting next to me and he would just walk hard, scary looking, dude, and we got in their heads. You know, he saw me move and lock up and I grabbed him, snatched him over my head, dressed in a couple of times. And this was really basically I had wrestled him. I was working full time for Otto and had come back for Christmas and did a couple of shots for him. I happened to go to. It was in Las Vegas and it was a TV match. And so a milking muscles. I was then working for an opening and said, Hey, we got to get this guy. And I guess they had tried to give the ultimate warrior the Vader gimmick and offered him the helmet and offered him the spot. You know, they had another gimmick already established. They were looking for the right person to put the Vader gimmick on. We're talking about Antonio Inoki and New Japan, and Masa Saito was basically scouting you. Well, yes, sir. That's right. And what they had done. They offered it to the warrior and then brought him over and got him in some matches. And the thing about, in my opinion and all of us and specifically in Japan, see athleticism plays a big part. These Japanese wrestlers are as good as any any wrestling, any wrestlers or wrestling in the world and maybe better, better discipline standpoint. The matches are longer. They're entertaining the finishes and intricate and technicality, yes, but it's based on athleticism and the ultimate warrior. I mean, he was he looked fantastic, but maybe it was a little bit awkward at times. Didn't have, you know, these Japanese guys are doing intricate moves in spots. And so going back to the day, let me jump in here and then going back to the day. And of course, the warrior just went to the Hall of Fame, unfortunately, just passed away. I used to pay my money to go see him down there in Dallas, Texas, as a dingo warrior. But that gimmick with his work style, with his work rate, not so much. Well, not over there, not over there. Yeah, these guys were all these guys. You know, you started with a milking to show she was shown on Milton Mazara. These guys were just good wrestlers. And you're talking about, you know, they lived, breathed it. I mean, they they had Dojo set up and they had sleeping bags. They slept on. The floor of the ring was right there. You'd have 30 guys sleeping around the ring. They'd wake up and fold up their sleeping bags and go to work. Think about that a little bit, Leon. I mean, you know, the young boys down there, as we used to call them back in. I don't know if they still call them that, but I mean, the guys come into the camp, the guys that were traded on their way up. You talk about paying some dues master now and you paid your dues. And I certainly paid mine and then the system changed a lot. But man, those guys, they start off at such a young age and are so regimented in their training and the repetition and shoot style training. I mean, you can't help but be technically good and have a vast amount of respect for the business because. And you're scrubbing floors to doing everything else, to pay your dues, to get your foot in the door. Yes, sir. Cleaning toilets and scrubbing floors, cooking dinner, going shopping, washing clothes. I mean, it's a to z over there anyway. You know what? To make me make the water rest in peace and my prayers go out to his family, his wife and two beautiful daughters. And it that gimmick just didn't work out for him. And so that that match that I had in Vegas with Massa when I was in Europe. Next thing I know Nokia had sent over a guy named Salvatore, who was a referee, and he came over there. And, you know, I also welcomed him with open hands. And I believe we were in Hanover and I was in the match. And next thing I know I got an offer from him to go, go full time and work for Nokia. And you know, it wasn't just more money, it was substantially more money and big know he he got pretty mad and had a few words with said, You know, I treated you like a gentleman and you're you're over here trying to steal my top end because I was I was Otto's world champion at the time, and it was a hard situation for me because I love the guy too, and I loved it. But you know, I'm a young man and try to buy a house for my family and feed my kid. So a situation where, you know, I just couldn't say no. And so I was off to Japan. Yeah, but that's the way it is, Leon. I mean, you know, you're always looking to get to the to the next level. And for you, it was going to be New Japan, more money. And you had the three world titles that you got at the CWA without advance. And I watched a couple of y'all's match. Oh, that's a bust as brutal matches. How was it working with Big Auto, a big big auto? You know, he was slowing down a little bit at that time. Yeah, he smoked a lot and he drank a lot of beer, and I think smoking hurt him on anything but big, strong mobile guys. We had some good matches and talked about a babyface. He was too. He was just over like like Coach Hogan in his prime, like you in your prime. When Steve Austin came through that curtain in the WWE, that crowd exploded. I remember Steve, I was standing right backstage. One time you walked through the curtain, they played that music, that glass broken brand. I mean, I got goose bumps. That crowd was so loud. And that's that's the type. And you know, it wasn't a stone stone cold Steve Austin. But let me tell you, dear God, it was over in Europe, and it was the largest company in Europe. So we had crowds of 15 and 20 and 25000 people in Bremen in that big auditorium. And and a lot of times they worked out of the tent and I'm talking about a tent that would hold 5000 people. How was the lifestyle there? Because, I mean, was there a lot of travel or, you know, basically work in the same tent shows night after night and the people were coming to go? Or did you all take it out on the road? That's the thing that you'd set up camp. You talk about the differences and the experiences that, you know, from Japan and Mexico to Europe to America and just to different lifestyles and cultures. I went over there in the Big Auto. He had bought me a little BMW and, you know, riding on that autobahn and that BMW going 150 miles an hour that was there was no speed limit on that album. That was a kick in the butt. You're late for work. You could get there pretty quick. Yes. You know, that's the thing about Germany is slow drivers stay out of the left lane because of the autobahn, and that's the protocol. And the United States people are so damn stupid. They walked to the left lane. They want to lollygag here because they got to head up their a*s and they know how to drive. Or you will get your a*s run off the road ready. And you know what? That last statement, if you're in that left lane and you're doing the you're doing 120, that is fast enough. So one going a hundred and fifty or sixty will run right into the back, you know, when they have a wreck over there, let me tell you, it's like a train wreck to me. That was more fun, more that was a kick in the ass, going to work every day in that little BMW and revving that thing up, getting going 140 150 and just like a kid in a candy store, I had a ball, but they Russell's round's over there during this era, over in Europe, and the referee was an integral part of the match where they had four or five. They had three minute rounds, sometimes a four minute round, sometimes good timing around, sometimes. So the end of the first round, whatever it was, it didn't matter how long it was. But you know, the referee walked over to the announcers table and act like he was doing something. The babyface would, of course, turn his back and she told me would walk up, smack or kick or hit the babyface in the back, and then I would walk out. From that point, the referee turn around because of that. And I just put my hands up and go, Hey, I didn't do anything. You didn't see nothing in the babyfaces complain. And so that goes on for a couple times. And then finally, the babyface similar situation will occur. You know, it's all set up and the babyface will get you back. You know, you turn your back on the babyface and he'd come over and smack you in. If would catch him, of course, yeah, and some of these big matches, you know, I get away with the two or three times in the babyface, get caught and he'd get fined, he'd get a red card and that red referee told it that red card and then walk over to the announcer and say that the babyface, whomever it was, would be fined a thousand marks. And the guild of German Deutsche Marks. And that's a lot of money. First thing you know, then these Germans would be all geared up and they'd stand up and they'd have their girl with him. And the Germans are proud people and they would pay that fine. And so the deal was we were we were not only wrestling in their training, but we were working the cardiac collection. So, you know, we get some matches, some of those big matches against the top babyfaces. You know, I could set that thing up in, you know, with the referee and the babyface and we'd get four or five thousand marks and they'd be paid for, you know, of course, the babyface would if you'd look to the crowd and somebody said, I'll pay that fine and we'd split the money after the match, but you know, that was good extra money back then. I thought that was, I don't know. I kind of liked around, think the I like the fact that you guys were working with them to work. So tell me about the rob system. I watched a lot of, you know, world of sports stuff, and I've talked to Steve Regal and some other guys who did the Autobots thing over in Germany. What did you like about the round system? Obviously. I'm assuming you get a good cardiovascular break because I would love to have that break. But how did it play into just from a strategic standpoint as far as psychology and working on the match? You know, you kind of didn't think of it as a break. And sometimes, you know, if you needed a break, you could take a break. And that was a big point. If you were doing, you were doing seven or eight rounds at five minutes and you get that minutes and you would you'd get your corner and breathe, you know, get a little water and get a towel on your face. And then other times on the shorter two and three minute rounds, you know you would do what you did and you get some money. But I kind of liked it. I think it was introduced right here in America that, you know, maybe one match per card, it might be something. There might be a good experiment to see how people took it. Well, let me ask you this. OK, now I'm thinking because we're fixing to start graduating into the new Japan stuff when you really turned in to Vader because right now you were still what? Who who are you wrestling for? What was your name there with Otto Deplorable Tower? OK, your phone the bull power now. Had you graduated yet to that vicious, very stiff and ring work style that you would be known all around the world for in Japan yet? Yeah. You know, I, you know again started out for me with Brad Riggins, and then we go back to that story where he put my head through that that door. And then the way Brad Riggins taught was simply, Hey, I'm going to see how tough you are before I started using. And that goes back to what you said. They wouldn't just say it was triple tape. And then then going to the NWA with with the bruiser Brody and I just, you know, my first match was with Bruiser Brody. You're basically fighting for your life. I mean, you're trying to show respect. But when you've got a guy like Brody in and graduating on the hands, it's all on on you early on in your career and you're a big dude, but you've got to pay those respects. Boy, if you ain't tough and obviously, if Brad Riggins was waiting you out, you passed the waiting process. You were tough. God dang, that's a hell of a quick one on one on. Here's how tough wrestling is very. You know, you have to put in things that gets right to the point, Steve. But then I went from a bruiser Brody and then Stan Hansen and just, you know, I got hit hit in the Adam's apple with that big left clothesline. So many times I just thought that was the way it was. I mean, you know, I just spent eight months of my life getting the living s**t out of me, and this is just the way it is. Yeah. So the first normal person I got in the ring with, and that was that day to day. You know, he got out of the ring and set me on. It was a pretty good match with them. He said, You know, you're a big, strong man. You're going to hurt somebody. And I said, Buddy, I don't know what you're talking about this. I've been getting kicked out of me for the last year and I'd looked at him and I just said, thank you for the mask, but I don't know, just talking about it. And so I carried that on over there. And I guess because of the position that I was in being that, you know, I was I was there probably two or three weeks and Orton made me the world champion and I didn't have the knowledge or experience to really carry the sport because of my size and my ability to trust people over my head, come off the top rope and do a moonsault. And, you know, they just hadn't seen that out before in the founder before. So he put me in that tough spot right away. And what I had done is there was to the referee that had built the business for. His name was Jeff Jeffries and a guy named Mitch McMichael, and they had broken into business 40 or 50 years, and they had wrestled to the door to smaller individuals so that a great referees, they had great knowledge of the business. I'd take that money and I would pay them to meet me in the arena or tent whatever it was during the day to round three o'clock, I'd get up in the morning and eat breakfast and go to the gym for an hour, hour and a half, and then come and work with those guys for two hours. And they literally they said, Well, we're going to start over scratch and we're going to teach lock up and take it on and how to how to do this and how to how to properly so you can get upset because you're just a big athletic guy, but you're not doing the right. There's a way to get up there and they just basically retrain you not to breed rings that did a bad job, but basically they kind of put some fine touches on some fitness on, right? You know, I call it the accumulation of the little thing. If I was doing 20 things wrong, they would just take one one thing a day and fix it. And I believe that helped me a great deal when I got there shows a lot of gumption on your part to be smart enough to say, Hey, man, can you guys help me out? And to go look for some extra help in an effort to speed up your process around out your game or to take your personal game higher? So when you work on these matches with Otto now, Otto was like, you said he was smoking a little too much. He drank some but is a big dude and he was over like rover. So with your smug style, was he saying to you, Hey, early on, they take it easy a little bit out here for whatever you brought to. That's the difference. You know, the European style, the Japanese style, and especially the kind of Japanese style. It was just the opposite. I always said the plan for my company is based around you being my world champion. And you know, I'm going to create this monster you and you have to show it and ring, he said. I want you. I'm telling guys that I'm telling you to work stiff and to become that monster. Wow. I mean, when you when you hit somebody, you don't hit him. And he said, Do the same with me. I'll never forget. You know, one of the matches I had to catch is Jack, and he came up to me and said, I want you to cut my face, I want you to break my nose. And this was kind of the attitude that I was given for a model and said, These guys are working with you or no, you're going to lean in and we want you to in and we're going to create this and we're going to we're going to do some business. And he said, you can't put people in the hospital, but we want you to watch it. And it was successful for me. And then, you know, then of course, going over to Mexico is pretty much the same thing, going over to Japan. I mean, I sat down in a room with a in my seat and they said, Listen, just go out there and be a monster, do whatever you want to do, but get over. All right. You got Antonio Inoki and Marcel CEDO sitting you down, telling you, Hey, go out there and be a monster and get over. You all heard that. Yeah, they told Leon White to go out, be physical and get over that. That's why I'm bringing today's show to a close. Don't sit here and talk to Big Leon White for a hell of a lot of fish. The best. We've all been killed. Thank you for joining us for another classic episode of the Steve Austin show, season four rating and review on Apple Podcasts and tell your friends. For more Steve Austin show, go to PodcastOne Gqom. That's podcast only Lorcan. All month long on Pluto TV's stream, the biggest Tyler Perry movie spree. Watch your favorites like Madea's Witness Protection and Madea's Big Happy Family. Joy Tyler Perry as he goes on a couples retreat with Sharon Leal in Why Did I Get Married? Or Idris Elba and Gabrielle Union in the Tyler Perry directed film Daddy's Little Girls. Plus, Pluto TV has hundreds of channels with thousands more movies and TV shows available on live and on demand. Download the free Pluto TV app on all your favorite devices and start streaming now. Pluto TV Drop in, watch free. Hey, Friday Night Lights fans, it's not only football, Friday Night Lights and beyond is an episode by episode discussion of the hit TV series Friday Night Lights hosted by yours. Truly, Scott Porter, who played Jason Street on the show and my two wonderful co-hosts, means I go through that game Matt Saracen and me Mae Whitman, a.k.a. someone who wasn't on the show but really, really loves it a lot. We will also bring on some special guests, answer your questions and tell you about what's going on in our lives today. It's not only football. Friday Night Lights and beyond is available now wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Clear eyes, full heart can't lose.