Transcript
And I just looked at my phone is blowing up over 98 messages and voicemails, and I I immediately said someone died and then I saw the first message was from CNN asking to do an interview about the death of O.J.. All right, welcome everybody. One degree of scandal is with Tom Zentner and Kato Kaelin. Of course, we're going to be here with a special episode today. We haven't had one for a little while because we're doing some exciting things with the show, but today is the day we have to talk and Kato. Wow, this is a monumental day. You know, this is something that I never thought. I wasn't expecting this because a I had heard that he had cancer, that O.J. Simpson had cancer, but I had not heard that he was on his deathbed. I don't think anybody did so. How did you get the news this morning? Well, first of all, I didn't know anything either. I just saw sometimes people would take his Twitter feeds, always talking sports. You know, he's always saying, God bless. So I never knew he was sick at all. I I got in last night, very, very early in the morning, and I just was getting up to use the restroom at about 7:30 a.m. and I just looked at my phone is blowing up of overnight messages and voicemails, and I I immediately said I thought something horrible happened and then I said someone died. And then I saw the first message was from CNN asking to do an interview about the death of O.J.. And so then I just read all the articles first, and then it was just it's been continuous. And I kept thinking, as you know, we did some documentaries have of the 30 year and that's coming right up. And in April here and then it's Nicole's birthday. It's May 19th, and I was thinking, we're foremost, it's sort of the. Condolences to the kids. Condolences to the kids of of Sydney, Justin and Are and Jason that they lost their father, and that's never easy to lose a father. But my feelings go out to the Goldmans, Fred and Kim to hope that. There's closure in their life, and I don't know if there will be closure in their life. And then lastly, it's. Thinking of the Nicole Brown Simpson beautiful woman, Nicole Brown Simpson and, you know, Tom, you knowing her as she was this I mentioned she's a beacon of light, always bright, always fun and never, ever should anybody lose the memory of her and the two young people that died. And that's what it's really all about. So that's where my mind went and still is going on in any kind of interview or anybody that called. And, you know, I got it right before the show, I got a phone call from Josh Peters from USA Today and he got me in the car driving here, right? He said, You have a few minutes and I. I know him from articles and doing sports things for the Milwaukee Brewers. And I said, Josh, what do you want to talk about? And he just said. What you're asking about their feelings, and I thought, Tom, that when a person is on their deathbed and they know it. Do they have a penance? Do they say the penance and does O.J. admit? How does he say forgive me for and I've done? I don't know, is he leave a note like that? You would get it off his conscious if that would help at all in that and I believe in heaven and hell, I believe there's more. I want to go upstairs, so I have no idea of what he did to the family, that he was surrounded by family of how it was. But in other interviews, I've always said that I've thought that I've admitted that. I said, I think he's guilty. Yeah, I said that. So, you know, it's between you and your maker at that moment. But then again, it all comes back to the closure of the chapters over everything in life that we'll have any trials that will happen in this world and in America, especially will always be the template of the O.J. Simpson trial, always the template cameras in the courtroom. Everything revolves around that. It'll never that will never die. Yeah. And we're getting a taste of it again. Just how much his presence, how big it is, right? Even though he's dead. He died today. The trial was going on when he was in his late forties and still look pretty good whenever you'd see him. So this I think this news is a little surprising for a lot of people that didn't know that he was this close to death or even what kind of cancer he had. But again, this is what everybody's talking about. You and I today, we've sifted through each interview request from everybody, you know, you name it, you name the show, you're going to be on him. We're taping this in the afternoon of Thursday. You're going to be on everywhere. We were both on the BBC already. You're going to be on Fox with Jesse Waters, Ashleigh Banfield. We got ABC. TMZ was outside the studio here and I already saw something posted with your statement. Strong statement this morning, but it just. You know, we're going to get into everything here to folks because, you know, Cato, and if you've just found our podcast, go back and watch some of the past episodes, we've covered so many angles of the O.J. Simpson saga, from Tom Lange to people that were witnesses to some of that saw O.J. leave the scene of the crime and almost run her over to reporters that were there. So if you're fascinated by the O.J. Simpson saga, you've got the right podcast here, so make sure you subscribe to our channel here and give this one to like. But this is where you hear Kate or Kato unfiltered for 40 minutes. So Kato, you mentioned closure. Does this make you? You're still processing all the feelings, I'm sure. But did you need something like closure or do you come to peace with everything over the last 30 years? And just that, the highs and lows that you've had a ride with this? I think it's it's more about the families of the victims of if they have closure. That's more important to me. If they have the closure, I think, you know, I think it's horrible what O.J. did to them. I think it's horrible that they think about it every day of their life, of losing a daughter and losing a son. I just think that's a horrible. Can you have closure? I think you have closure that he's passed, but you will never have closure that you can't have. I mean, especially think about that constantly if he went to his deathbed, not ever admitting it, and there's no doubt that he did it. Yeah. Look, I can't speak for the goldmans and I don't want to even try. But if it were me, I don't think I could have that closure. You know, this is just another chapter in the saga, essentially. You know, I think people are fascinated because you it's such a, you know, a big role in the trial. I mean, your life changed instantly since nineteen ninety five ninety four point ninety five. But talk to talk to us about the back story with you and Nicole, because that's where it started. It's not like you knew O.J. beforehand, right? You were friends with Nicole. Close friends had a friendly relationship with her where you lived in her guesthouse before that at Gretna Green, and then talk about how the scenario unfolded, where you ended up in the bungalow at OJ's house. Well, the whole thing was that I went on, I worked with this actor, wonderful, wonderful actor and friend of mine named Graham Kramer. I'll just sort of do cliff notes of it, and he and I went to Aspen and Grant was a celebrity, and he did a lot of events and met Nicole. They they met each other before while she was married. I had some of the skiing events that went on in Aspen, so we went to Aspen for a New Year's Eve and they connected again. Nicole was divorced at the time their eyes met and I was sort of the third wheel, the funny person down there getting together. Now she was not with O.J. at the time, so when everybody went back to L.A., I was living in Hermosa Beach. I became a friend, Nicole and Grant, and seen each other. And at one point, after hanging out a few times, I saw that she had a guest house and I was driving up from Hermosa. And if anybody knows that drive coming to L.A. with traffic, it's an hour, hour and 15 minutes at that. I live in Manhattan Beach is not that bad. You're exaggerating. In the 90s, it was worse. Hey, we. So then, she said, there's no one living in there. And I said, Can I? And that was how it all started. So I became friends. Nicole, and then the kids of Nicole of Justin and Sydney became very close to them. And so much so that I was not the babysitter, but I was there for me and I would just make them laugh and read with him, do homework in the evening, got a dog and the dog and the kids said, We want to name the dog Kato. And so the Akita was Kate also. So it was it was honestly, it was a time of just laughter love. And I had no romantic. Nothing with Nicole. 100 percent friendship. And so that's how it started when they start dating again. O.J. and Nicole obviously wanted to meet me. Any, I guess, gave thumbs up to her. And so I was part of that clique, and that's how it all started. And then Nicole moved into a house on Bundy, and when she went to Bundy, was no guest house there, would you say until you get a place, you can have a guest house here where I live? Yeah. So I got a bungalow there, and that's how it is. And so I stayed six and a half months, seven months with Nicole and about six and a half with O.J.. So I think the important thing is that I had sort of a room with a view. I saw both sides of how they live. I saw both sides of of anger. No, I never saw the violence, but I did see that it just couldn't make it work. Yeah, I remember one story you told on the show where you had to replace the screen door or something that he had knocked down. He had kicked down. Right? Come here to do intros and 911 call. And I wasn't there when the doors kicked down, but obviously he had done it and it was the French doors. And so Nicole and I hammered it shut in. The police had come. Did you ever try to speak to her and say, as a friend, this thing is going nowhere? Did you ever feel like she was in danger? Did you ever feel like as her friend that was close to her that you had to give her some sort of message that you're seeing some things, maybe that she can't? You know what I did as I went back to everything I do when I grew up, my my family, my mom and dad, large family we had. If my parents rarely had arguments, rarely and if they did. I never not saw my dad end up kissing my mom and the making up and then laughing. So I would try to bring that and say, Why do you guys fight you, beautiful kids? You got everything in the world, so I could never figure that out. And then I sort of realized that money really isn't everything. It's just to have a good home and this to have a relationship that work. And that one did not work. You know, we always talk about O.J. being a narcissist or worse. Right? He's got all all the signs of that. You wonder, is this something that he would want to get off his chest? I mean, all you can do is speculate, but the guy you knew? Do you think he would carry something like this all the way to his grave, or do you think something in his conscience would kick in and think, maybe let me give some of these people a little peace? But I would imagine in his mind then that's how everybody would judge him going forward. He wants to continue the charade that he didn't do it. Yeah, I don't think he I think he's died with the truth that he knew. And that's it. No one else knows he died with it. So. And he was narcissistic but narcissistic person. And he loved adulation. He loved being the fans. He loved that. So he wanted to be around. Everybody still loving him. And I think people made up their mind, people that either thought he's guilty, not guilty. He had that group and you live with that. So I think that's where it is, and that's why I brought up earlier. I I don't know how your feelings are, but I think you have to have a penance, your deathbed. You just have to. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're right there. This is it. I wonder if you. He announced that he had cancer, I think, a year and a half ago, but he kept it on the down low. So I don't know what it was if it was pancreatic cancer. I don't know if anybody's even reported that yet. Or you would think that maybe there was a family member unless they were protecting the secret for him for so long? Or maybe they just it's 30 years later and they just wanted to discuss anything but that. Right? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know, either. I don't know really the closeness when he was in Vegas with the kids. I don't know where it was. I don't know how often he saw them or anything. So I just think he pretty much had his life up there, whatever he was doing. I think just golfing. Yeah. Does it seem like 30 years ago? Does it seem like a long time ago? It's kind of crazy that the 30 year anniversary is going to be a number of big documentaries this year, next year to be the 30 year anniversary of the trial this year, the 30th anniversary of the murders. Does it seem like it was that long ago or some of these moments just emblazoned in your mind where you can't forget them and that the memory is still really strong? It's the perfect way to put it. The memories are so strong. It does not seem like 30 years. It's amazing that it's 30 years ago. And you know, when you go on your social media feeds, when I see the pictures of the trial, I see the pictures they post. I mean all that. And I'm telling you it's I'm very affected by it because I remember that moment. I remember certain moments and I remember moments. I mean, even getting the phone this morning, you get I get that queasiness in my stomach of something's wrong. And even even now, I'm not so comfortable talking about things at the trial. I think it's because I think it was such a dark period. I don't like being in the dark. I like the light and I like it being a fun person. And and for you knowing me that I could be serious this for so long. It's it's not so much a difficulty, but it's not me. And it's it's going back to this dark period of, let's face it, I never I've never in my life was in a courtroom in my life. And the first time that in parking tickets, Tom anything is the first time was for a double homicide for a person that I was living on this property with and a woman that I knew as a friend and I didn't know Iran. But later in life, I, you know, I knew Kim and all that. I know the love there for him and what a great guy he is. So that was it. So it all comes back to me. Everything comes back to this, these moments. So that's what I'm kind of going through now. I'm just reliving the thoughts and and things. You know, there's some clarity to it that that maybe two weeks ago, I didn't have that clarity, but this puts it right back. It puts me right back in that situation. I would imagine it does in life is so crazy because if you had done anything differently, if you had a trip where you were out of town or if you had an acting gig or something and you weren't there, you wouldn't be this witness to history where you have the most important perspective. I think of anybody because you were close to Nicole, very close. You live there and then you were involved in the actual dramatic moments when it all went down. I mean, you were there the night before, hours before, right? And you have amazing stories for all of this. And I think for our audience, it's worth telling some of these in and you and you were there when these very famous detectives Phil Vannatter, Tom Lange, Mark Fuhrman all showed up at your door at what, 4:30 or 5:00 in the morning, hours after the murder? Right? So, you know, we talked to Tom Lange in our show, but it's it's amazing that the knock on the door that I even that night, I kept saying to the executives of, first of all, when they came to my door to know who they were, but I let them in. And then they said to me after in my place for them, by the way, it was Burnett or Lang Furman and Detective Phillips. And then they just went around my room and asked me what I wore last night. I still don't know what's going on, and I pointed out everything what shoes I had on or my clothes were. Did you say, what is this about? Were you trying to get to the bottom? I didn't say that. I said immediately. Did OG's plane crash because I knew he left for a trip to Chicago so that that was it? I didn't know anything else going on. And and then I mentioned to Furman, I said, I don't know if is the big thing. I kept thinking we had an earthquake and my picture moved. And it was a wall I didn't have. A window was just a wall, and this picture moves, so I thought we had an earthquake. So it was back there, and that's where they went back there. And later on, we found out that's where they found the bloody glove and the bloody glove led to so many things. It became a topic where part of the trial. You know, I did interview BBC and they bring the pop culture of it all, and it was the Johnnie Cochran. Starting the if it doesn't fit, you must acquit. And that was the glove, and then the trial itself had so many sayings and it be, you know, it was very Shakespearean. I was showbiz. Yeah, that was the very first reality show. That's how reality television started. Larry King told you that everybody knows that there's there's never been a bigger story since. There's never been a bigger story beforehand. And there never be anything that can capture the imagination of the whole world like this just because it was a different time. Right. But you're not distracted by social media and all these other things. This was the only thing going on, and it had to be carried out on live television. So people like you became known all over the world, you had to be in the top 10 of most recognizable people in a place in the entire planet. Yeah. And you know, Tom, I I I became famous for the wrong reasons. I'm the first to admit that, and I want people to know that that. Did you know anybody that makes fun of me or whatever? It's fine. I realized that I, through the most horrific situation, I became popular and it was nothing that I I wanted to become popular for. But I knew that was my blueprint in life that, you know, I came out here to be an actor. I was doing readings in auditions, in the shot commercials. So. I became instantly famous overnight from the most horrific situations. Now what can I do with that eye is that I can do about the past. Everything is about the present and the future, and I can make life better for myself and for anybody else. And that's why I really do have an outlook of paying it forward. I want everything to be better for everybody else, and that's that's the God's honest truth. You know, it's crazy because after the trial, you really didn't have any interaction with O.J. again, did you? I mean, maybe your paths crossed one time, you said at the civil trial in the bathroom. Yeah. Was that it? My deposition? That was it. And one time, but I didn't cross past him, but he was on the same golf course I was on. OK, so that's it. That's never, ever buy him to like he never looked at you like, Hey, buddy, or anything like that. I mean, where a guy like that could just wipe the memory bank clean of something horrific like that that happened and think that he's back in time? Well, I was in deposition saying things that were truth about him that were very derogatory towards him. So, you know, during the depositions, I was speaking my mind. And then after the first or two breaks, I go to the bathroom, he's in there. After I said these things, I was I couldn't. I wanted to get out of the bathroom, and that's it. You know, it's interesting because, you know, he hasn't paid the goldmans right. That's why he moved to Florida. That's why he lives in Las Vegas. But he's got to have a fortune. He still gets the pension from the NFL. Who knows what he is, real estate wise or whatever else. But I don't know the answer to this, but it'd be interesting to see if they can collect some money now. Like if there's something that is required for him to turn over, but I don't know. Or another? Yeah, I don't even know how that works with that. Yeah. Go back to the night before because a guy like this, had you seen him enough, right? Where maybe you saw that little little snap where a different part of his, you know, is his personality would come out, the anger would flash. Did you sense anything that night that could go that direction? I didn't. I didn't. I was I. I said that he seemed to be in deep thought, and that's still in my mind of being in the we went on a drive. I didn't know we're going to McDonald's. That became a famous thing that we went to. I have no idea. I just asked if I can go for this because I was starving. He's going to get something to eat. He came to my door. So I'm telling this to the detectives and and we go to a drive thru at McDonald's. So I don't even eat meat, but I got chicken sandwich. And he had these a quarter pounder or two and he ate them immediately. And he's. Two bites, and I thought I'd eat the rest of my food at his place, and then they pulled up and I walked to his main, the main part of the house by the kitchen. I walked in. I saw when I turn around, you're still at the at his door of the car about 20 yards away. And I then I felt like, Oh God, he doesn't want me to eat your you and say, OK, I said, OK, so I went to my room and that's the last I saw until he left for the flight, with the limo driver taking him. That was what. Less than an hour later, right? Yeah, I think so. OK with the timeline. But you know, the everything in my life, I'll tell you some of the changes that happened because you mentioned timelines and two things that are so important is. All because of being questioned and going through a trial of. My my life, I lived my life for these 30 years that I'm so aware of every moment, like I'm married now before when I was dating, though, I'd always say, OK, I dropped you off at this time. I would listen to a song on the radio. I would mark it down. At this time, the station played this song. I saw a car. I would break plates. I'm living this life for 30 years of always knowing what happened in my timeline because I saw how important was. And it was just it was so much to live with because, you know, everything you have to know, what you eat, what you eat, what time. And I start living that way even now. You still that. Yeah, I kind of always want to make sure where I always make notes. It's just part of me now that I do way of always being aware of what's going on. And another reason why I bring that up is because I did a podcast with Kim Goldman and her brother lost his life, of course, by error, notes Iran. And I told him, I said, Kim, I, I have these nightmares and these dreams that I I want you to know that I. I believe that I invited myself for that. To McDonald said, I didn't know it was going to be driving a car. I invited myself in that timeline. I could tell by the way, O.J. was contemplating, he just stood at the door of my guesthouse and it seemed like a lifetime. He goes, Oh yeah, sure. But I could come along and I thought, I think I screwed up his time, right? So you beat yourself up over that for a long time while you're at a lot of guilt. I think you've kind of maybe come to peace with that, but explain to it a little bit more. Well, because I came back because Kim said, No, I don't really think that. So she said, that's no OK, don't think, don't put that on you. And so hearing her say that matter does. A lot to me. I'm glad she said that because it wasn't, yeah, it was in that had anything, it was you. Yeah, it was just I invited myself and it happened. But explain to me why you think that you did mess with the timeline? So you think O.J. wanted to have the story that he went to McDonald's alone? So he he wouldn't have to, like, have somebody corroborate that everything's everything's high and say to? I don't know. But I think that was to establish an alibi that he knew that he came to my door, that he was going to go out to eat. I don't know whether he's going to go out to get something to eat. So he just told you that as a flip in response, he wanted to know about it. You'd say you've come. We wouldn't know if I could work under our bill and I couldn't. So I gave him 40 that I had. And that was it. So all that went on, and I don't think he thought I'd say, Can I come along? And so when I did that, he I think in his mind, because it was it was a long time and we're trying to he's trying to figure out something in his head of what's going to happen. My this is my speculation, what my belief is, but it makes sense. Yeah, I guess. How weird was he acting at McDonald's? Do you remember it? I mean, it was just quite seemed deep in thought that was it just deep in thought. You know, when you watch someone that's the celebrity, you know that you don't want to start asking, you've got to be the person. It's quite because you see you're stepping on, you're out of your boundary and you're like, Oh, hey, what's going on? So I was just quite I adapted to what he was feeling, so that made me quiet. I didn't ask too many questions. Yeah. These are unbelievable stories. The one you had mentioned in the detectives were at your door and you told them that you thought you heard it or felt an earthquake the night before. That was technically O.J. coming over the wall wasn't there. Yeah. Tom Lange did a TV show that I did his TV show and explained that then he just showed me in the show itself how much evidence they had, how you know this thing that Vernet or detective and ET or just rings out of my mind always. And I bring it up a lot is that, you know, after so many interviews, I kind of became friends with it. Not that we hung out, but I became friends and talked to them and they thought, OK, he's an OK guy. And then Vannatter just said, Yeah, Kato, let me tell you something about this, this this this case to us as detectives. This is a two minute Columbo episode that they had so much. It would only lasted two minutes. That's how much evidence they had. Yeah, go back and watch the episodes that we had with Tom Lange. We had two of them. He's such a class dude. I mean, he is just the epitome of LAPD Detective Old School getting the job done. No doubt in his mind, O.J. to zero. And keep in mind, they have warehouses full of evidence that never got shown in trial that Tom did a TV show around. So I mean, imagine these guys. Their job is to solve these crimes and in their mind they did. And then all these factors that that they couldn't control ended up making the difference. Was there a turning point in the trial where you thought he's going to get away with this? Did you ever think that he was going to be found innocent or did it shock you? Yeah. There was no turning point. It was the first day I was testifying. When I walked into the courtroom and I saw the some of the jurors waving away and moving back, and I thought, This is this supposed to happen? And it was it was different of, you know, I was there testifying six days, six point five. I think it was. And. When I was doing this, the trial, you know, Robert Shapiro was on the defense, one of the lawyers, very, very nice gentleman, and he come up to me and said my son would love an autograph and all that. I thought, this is surreal. And then that's when Larry King called me the first reality star. Then I started realizing, this is kind of a show. And even the things like this, the glove. If the glove don't fit, you must acquit. And the fights they would get in. I mean, let's face it, the the they did a show on it. Ryan Murphy did the 180 Emmys on the American Crime Story and ESPN won an Oscar. So it's it is seen sort of as entertainment, but it's a real life. And people saw this as a soap opera, but it was on during soap opera hours, but it wasn't. It was real life, real people affected. Yeah, and that's that was the birth of reality TV. Larry King told you that. And then you watched the verdict with none other than. The late Barbara Walters. How many people have passed away? Another surreal moment, yeah, we see taken aback during the reading of the verdict that she startled it all or was she expecting it? I think she was expecting it. I think she was thinking that he was going to be found innocent. And the, you know, and then we and this also started about L.A. and actually the America going backwards in time because it was split screens of African-American and white and it's still today. So it went backwards in time with the. You just became so prejudiced. And yeah, and you know, it was all because of the media court who did it. They lined it up and showed everybody reactions. So it was two years after Rodney King. Yeah. And. That was a big part of it as well. Was it difficult for you to wrap your arms around the fact that you were famous because of this? Was it difficult, like especially if you had opportunities that came from this hosting opportunities appearances because you became a celebrity? You did and you couldn't control it. It was going to happen. You would have been a celebrity without this. You were trending that way as an actor. Right? Thanks. Well, I mean, the one story where you read for Dumb and Dumber is a classic. Well, that is. I tested for the 1994. I tested my friend Aaron Myerson. I bring this up. He was at New Line Cinema and we played basketball together. We hung on on weekends. He was one of the producers of the film. He said, You got to read the script, gave me the script. I've got it somewhere at home. He says, You've got to be in this. And at my time at the long hair and I read it, I said, This is fantastic. At one end and it was. The Farrelly Brothers have met with Rick Montgomery, the casting director. They put me on film, on tape, and man, I was like, This is my life is just going. That was a week before the murders happened and life somewhat stopped. And I, you know, I get my SAG card now for 40 years of being around. Once again, I stress that I became I was became famous for the wrong reasons. But Mike, my goals never stopped it. The because of becoming famous for this, I still wanted to do what I'm doing. I still want to be out there. That was the commandos role in, you know, in Dumb and Dumber Longer. So. Yeah, but what does a person do, though, when given opportunity to become a Slav that you say no to anything? Yeah, I've a daughter. I've got, you know, I have a mortgage. I do all these things. You have to work. And even though people would say, Oh, he's got the job because of this, I would know that going in everything I did was under a microscope. So I knew I had to perform and be that much more ready and to impress people. And I thought, I did that. Yeah, you came. You came to L.A. from Milwaukee. Very close knit family. Big family. Was that difficult because you didn't have any like immediate family members right here in L.A. So like help, you could go live with them for a while. Did you feel isolated? I didn't because I talked to them every day and then I had my closest friends still in my school that were when the gentleman was a lawyer who was on the phone with that night. At that time, he was a D.A. in San Diego. And the reason I'm on the phone with him is because I was seeing him in a joking way before the murders happening, said I just had dinner with O.J.. You know, I'm doing a little thing like being c**ky. And then my friend Will Tom O'Brian, who was my lawyer friend will stump was my still my, my best buddy. And just talking to these guys, first of all, they make you very humble in your. And they realize what I was going through. Best support my family, best support my father who passed away. But my mom was alive and that was the effect on her that it had was just devastating to her. And so but I talked to them and it made a huge difference to have a big family. Huge difference. Yeah. And the fact that you're from Milwaukee, the grounded people completely. Oh, completely. That was so you know. You know, it's funny time that so many people would come up to me during this time and ask me, first of all, do you need see psychiatrist Junor? You were only you OK? And all that? I said, Yeah, I'm OK. I'm I'm pretty tough. I don't need a psychiatrist. I know who I am. So I think you have a kind of belief in self. You know you are. You're not. And I have nothing psychiatrist. No, I just was like, No, I'm pretty complete. I know the situation and I can handle, you know, I have to be Teflon to have people that were beating me up to say, Oh, had to. And nobody really knows people revealed. But I was called everything from the pariah freeloader a dummy, a liar, even in assassins target. But hey, the court of public opinion can be wrong. So I had a. Thirty years later. To them, and I'm Wisconsin, so cream does rise to the top. And that's America's Dairyland liking it. So yeah, I think that's where I'm at. But it took a lot of strings, a lot of inner strength. A lot of probably you have faith, you know, a strong family that could back you up because you mentioned stories to your drive. You get a referral back in the day when people would spit on you. Yeah, throw gum at you. Yeah, I like to get early. I get rid of that convertible that week that was there because we were I was very approachable. I didn't mind being approached, but when they approached for violence, it was it was bad and the spitting people wanted to fight. I was just like, Oh my God, there's lots of hate, but you know, everything, everything subsides after over time. Yeah, I was actually around OJ the weekend that he got arrested in Vegas. It's really a crazy wild. I know. So it's just you. You saw him once or twice. He was all over our party the weekend that he got arrested in Las Vegas. It was crazy because he was trying to sell and film a reality show on himself. So we had a film crew that he brought along and one of my friends who was a TV host for Extra. We were having his birthday party at the Real World suite at the Palms, and we were having dinner that night and he's down, hanging out with us, trying to, I mean, you know, O.J. how he can be. And and with his crew, with this crew that he had hired to film him. And then he just showed up at the party like he got in there somehow. And it's so bizarre. And then a few hours later, he's getting arrested, which is another great documentary that we covered on this show. The arrest in Vegas and how that judge Judge Gla*s. I mean, you know that she made that personal right when she sentenced him for whatever he had, like 15 years, 15, 20 years of the absolute max you could get. She basically admitted that she was it was payback for what didn't happen in L.A.. But yeah, it's it's the the the end of a very just memorable historic chapter in American history. Did you see Caitlyn Jenner's post today? No rot in hell or something like that? I can't remember. She took all kinds of heat on social after she did that. Like, no, no remorse whatsoever that he's dead. But it was just it just triggered so many feelings from people, right? Right. There's no gray area here. People are just really hot on this subject one way or another, right? And you know, I released a statement because I was asked to do a statement and I just wanted to. And I just I think it was about the kids, not so much about about the, you know, how they're doing. So I think that's what you have to make it about. So, you know, some of the other stories you'll see today, too, is just educating the younger population that what happened because they weren't around for this. If you know somebody in their late 20s, mid 30s, even a clue, they didn't live through this, which is unbelievable because it just it doesn't seem like thirty years ago. So you'll see stories on the Bronco. Where is it now? It's in a museum in Tennessee somewhere, and just all the other artifacts and things that came from that trial. Do you have anything? I remember that you showed me the key that you had. So have my guest house. Key to O.J. is bungalow. You still have that key. You'll have tried to give it to Larry King. You didn't want it. What else do you have stuff in a storage locker? You know what? I've got some notes. I got some personal things. I got some. Back then you made cassette tapes. I got a song playlist of Anna Nicole's playlist for her. Yeah, I've got certain things that I backed away. And, you know, I do write stuff and we'll see. But yeah, it's. So. The 30 years it's in a blink of an eye, you know, the expression goes by in a blink. It is so true. And when you're younger, you don't think that you don't think it's a blink and eye. It's a blink of an eye over how everything is times gone by and how many people are passed on since that trial. It's amazing. I remember exactly where I was when I heard the news report of the murders. Of course I remember I where I was during the trial. All this stuff. You were there and you mentioned it was six and a half days that you had to testify. And there was no. This was not an episode of Suits. Right. This was not glamorous on any level. They took you in basically a broom closet with no electronics. No, nothing. It wasn't newspaper. It was a closet like a coat hanger closet, basically. And that was it. I stayed in there waiting. No closed circuit TV to follow the trial. They didn't want anything. I popped my head out. Maybe use the bathroom, get some air, and that was it. I waited in a room and the the woman that was in there was grand. The office upstairs was Patty Fairbanks. I remember names certain names because it comes up. I forget them when it pops up like a statue which say the names just come out like that. They just you hit a nerve hits and you can remember so much more. At what point of the trial did you testify? Was it early or was it the middle of it? I think it was the middle. So what were you doing before that? Were you following it on TV? No, I was. I had a meeting where I'm sequestered. I saw certain things, but I knew, like with the hard copy show's current affairs or at that time, I would know certain things to have my mom. Don't watch this. Don't watch this. And I remember this story that came out and I'm bringing it up because it was the most devastating that the there was no McDonald's. They said it was Kato getting crack. What's another word for the drug? Meth crack, but meth, meth, meth that it's only meant it hurt me so bad because I don't do drugs. I do. I'm as healthy as can be. So my mom would hear the stories, but they had a guy in a silhouette that was doing all these shows. And I said, I want to confront this person who was later on. It was found out that it was all staged, but it went on and on and all these shows. And it was devastating to my family. I believe it would have been a hundred times worse now with social media. Yeah, it's actually almost a blessing that there was no social media when when something goes on TV, people believe back then you just believe something repetitious. But yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I get it. I look in and this was every story, every day. And you just it was a throwback today how every single network could not stop talking about this all day. Well, you talk shows everything. Not everything is in sitcoms. It was on the topic talk shows, dancing, Itos, Hip-Hop culture. It was everywhere. You probably even haven't even had a chance to really process all this. That not that you need to be prepared for it, but because you're in a sprint right now with all these media appearances. Yeah, it's it's a process. This is cathartic. Talking about it now, yeah, it's the first time I've actually. Sort of seeing someone face to face and to talk about it with you, so yeah, it's very cathartic to get this out. And because of talking like this, I remember more. Yeah, and that's it. You're watching one degree, a scandalous kid when I have this podcast. We're back. Make sure you subscribe to the channel if you're new to it. Check out some past episodes and follow us every single week because the content is outstanding. We're working on a show that was going to be starring in that. We'll have more details to reveal, hopefully very, very soon. But there's a lot of stuff going on in your life. Yeah, you know, you bring that up, too. And I was thinking of Larry King saying the first reality star, but my life sort of was actually born on court TV, and that's where I was seen every day. So I became once again. Is it Kato, the character soap opera? No, it's Kato Real and court TV made a real thing for me. You know, going back to the trial real quickly, I just want to ask you this question Was that the most scared you've ever been in your life? Were you nervous, intimidated? Were you freaking out? What was it like? Because it's a small. Courtrooms are small at L.A. County. They're in downtown. They're not big. It's not like the stadium or anything. You're in this. You have these famous faces in front of you, the attorneys. You understand the magnitude and the importance of while you're there. There had to be unbelievable tension that you could just feel that you could cut. And here you are announced to the world. Bryan Kato Kaelin. What the part that I think was the that affected me the most is that I was on the edge of my seat on everything in my life. I didn't know what's going to happen next. I didn't know what story might come out or what, what's going to what will happen in my life of. For instance, someone wanted to fight and all that, so everything was sort of on edge just with what was going to happen. And I'm sure it led to ulcers and things because I didn't know, I didn't know how to prepare for something like this. So I kept saying, OK, you know who you are and all that. And that's what I would talk to my friends. But it's hard to. It's when someone says bad things about me, I don't take it as well. Some are saying good things because I wasn't raised that way. So I start seeing you. Why does someone hate me? And it really affected me. It just affected my life. I couldn't. I wasn't one of those guys. Just blow it away like making people happy. You went to a room 100 percent, raise the energy level. You want everybody to feel great and you do. That is who you want in testifying. I didn't do jokes, but people I guess gravitated towards. But I was being honest and my replies were they got a laugh, but it wasn't me trying to get off. It was just it was cathartic. It was who I was. It was just real and organic and raw, and it wasn't like for two minutes. You're there for hours and hours and hours, and this stuff comes out and all you could do is be yourself because you're afraid of lying. The last thing you want to do is not tell the truth there, and you probably have to. I have the facts straight in my mind about getting this right. There's lives at stake here, 100 percent. So you go big, you become a deer in the headlights because you were trying to think of, was that in my review? And and then, you know, even looking back I go, I understand why people would say that, but I want them to also understand it's because I wanted to be truthful and to answer hundred percent honest. Is your testimony seared into your memory where somebody handed me the transcript right now? Could you recall it? I could. Probably most of it, not all of it, because there's so much. I do have the transcripts at home and it's it's notebooks full. Yeah, and I don't read them at night. So if something comes up, I go, Oh yeah, I said that. But most of the stuff I the most of the stuff I would, yes, I recall it. Well, look, we're going to wrap this up in just a second. You know, you are the most famous houseguest in the history of the planet. You've done an amazing job with your life having to endure this. And because of that, everybody always wants to know because of the proximity you had to this couple this terrible, volatile situation. Did you think O.J. did it? And unequivocally, what's your answer? Yeah, I think he's guilty. I think he's a guilty man. I've said that before. My opinion wasn't the same opinion as a jury, but yes, I think he's guilty. The civil trial said he was guilty also. So, yeah, that's my opinion. Yeah, he's a guilty man. Yeah. I want to thank PodcastOne for letting us use the studio today. This is beautiful. This works out great. Anything else, Kato, that you want to get off your chest or feel like you want to communicate? You had a great forty second statement that's, you know, traveling around the world a few times right now on social media. And I and I, you know, Tom, I think, like I say, this is cathartic for me. I think that statement sets it all. OK, great. It's a perfect statement. You showed it to me before you sent it out. Yeah, I'm an editor and I had nothing to edit. And I think that whose idea is that? Thanks so much and I won't appreciate also saying PodcastOne for this time in the studio to talk about this and to try and Gabby for openness. Yeah, thanks, guys. Especially on short notice. We really do appreciate. But Kato, we appreciate your sincerity, your openness. Everybody loves you. I mean, it's impossible not to love Kato Kaelin. Well, I appreciate that. But trust me, there's I. I like to think that too. Well, we'll find them. Yeah, we'll take care of that. But look, we're moving forward. There's a lot of great things on the path for you. We're all excited about that. And I mean, thanks for sharing this because we I speak for hundreds of millions of people that are just fascinated by this topic. We can't help it. Everybody's out there. This is real. And to get this from you, and let's continue the conversation as we resume the podcast every week now, what do you say? I love it. Thank you so much and great to see you. OK, great seeing you. Kato, thanks for this. Thanks, everybody. Again, subscribe to the Channel one degree of scandal. This follows on social, especially Kato here in the coming days. Follow me. We'll give you clips from this show. I'm sure some of these clips we're going to release for for media around the world as well. Watch for Kato tonight. He's going to be everywhere. You're going to see him in the next coming days helping see. Thanks, Tom. OK, bye. Thanks for watching. Everybody will catch you next week.
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