A RHONY Friendship Fallout

Transcript

Earn as you go with our pizza. Explore current account, earn up to five euro cash a month as you pay with your card and earn up to five percent cashback when you pay bills with our partners and it all comes together for an everyday banking experience that's altogether more human pizza. Apply in app and start earning today. Qualifying criteria, terms and conditions apply. Five cents back in car purchases up to five per month. Bills pay by direct debit required. Account partners and benefits are subject to change after a monthly maintenance fee applies. Other charges may apply. Over 18 personal customers and statements of permanent TSB policy trading as PTSD is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. Well, well well today I am so excited because about a year ago or actually almost two years ago, we did an episode on all things fine jewelry. And I have to tell you, people were absolutely obsessed with the episode. People loved it, and we have been wanting to do this again. And I'm so excited because Victoria, from Jay Brooks Jewellers, is joining us to answer all of our listeners questions about all things diamonds, gold, precious metals, what's trending in jewelry right now. So it's going to be such a fun episode. Welcome, Victoria. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I feel like this has been months in the making and I'm so excited we can do this. Victoria is literally the best. You're going to fall in love with Victoria over this episode because she is. She gets it. She knows her stuff. And yeah, so, so excited to have you here. Bless you. OK, so before we really get going, Victoria, I would love for you to tell the story of Jay Brooks. Really how Jay Brooks started? Because the thing that I have noticed now getting my wedding band custom made with Jay Brooks is that Jay Brooks, to me, seems like this really impeccable blend of old school fine jewelry jeweler, right? Committed to the utmost craftsmanship, while also offering the latest and greatest in terms of styles and being really up to date with the most current trends and what fine jewelry is the hardest right now. So it's kind of this really cool old and new world combo or hybrid brand. And so I would love for you to share the story behind Jay Brooks. Well, you said it perfectly. We are a bit of a hybrid brand, so the company was started in 1997 by John Brooks, who happens to be my father, as you know. And he started the company with an idea in Utah to do something a little bit different. There was a little bit of a hole in the market, and he saw a need for really beautiful fashion jewelry as well as the bridal. And so when he started the company and something to be said is that he always staffed women. He saw their value when it came to jewelry buying when it came to consulting. Not to say that, you know, men are incredible as well. We always we've always had men on our team as well. But that's I think it gave us a little bit of an edge in the market just because we had this really unique perspective of what women want, because of course, the jewelry that we're selling is majority for women. So that was really exciting. But of course, like we started out as this very traditional jewelry store and John has told me this story my whole life. But when he originally started working in the jewelry space, he knew immediately that he wanted to be in the industry because he just loved the environment. He loved that every single person that walked into the jewelry store was beaming with happiness. They were so joyful. They were so excited to be there. And it really is because they were celebrating these milestones in their lives. They were there for a proposal or to buy a gift for their anniversary or big birthday or promotion. And and it was just a very positive environment. And so he knew immediately that he wanted to be in this space because he loved to be a part of people's celebrations. And that really has been our way. This whole time is to help people celebrate and built their legacy through fine jewelry. And I think that's our favorite part about being jewelers. So of course, we are a family owned business and we are now coming into the second phase as a second generation jeweler. It's been really incredible. I think we as the family, we we essentially grew up eat, sleep, repeat. Jay Brooks, we we grew up just like learning about the industry from a really young age and learning about fine jewelry and precious metals, and it's become really second nature to us. And so I think that's kind of where we are that hybrid, where we kind of are that traditional jeweler. And we have the expertise, which is such an exciting part of what we do as we come into the second generation. We have a really unique view on what is trending, what our clients are looking for. Now, of course, that we are available online and on Instagram, we've become a little bit of the best of both worlds, like the online retailer meets the traditional jewelers. So we kind of can accommodate any of your jewelry needs, which is really cool. Well, and also, I think people need to know that anything you see. So if Jay Brooks doesn't have it, people need to know that they can custom make it so anything you see online, they can make for you, especially when you're looking at brands online. You might not know the quality or craftsmanship behind it, so you might think, OK, I want this piece, but I want to make sure that it's done really well. So I'm going to have Jay Brooks custom make it for me. And something also to remember is that we started as a physical retailer, a brick and mortar retailer, and then we we now are available online. So I run the website and social media. And so we're constantly adding things to the website. But what you see on the website does not necessarily mean that every piece that we have in our jewelry store. So our selection is huge. We can essentially source and get anything. If you don't see anything online that you've been wanting, feel free to message us and we can look into it. I will say as someone who worked with Jay Brooks, you know, making my wedding band, it was just such a different process than buying something online because I think that I just felt so taken care of. The whole process was so seamless. Victoria, you were so attentive and incredible every step of the way when I started my friend jewelry journey as corny as that sounds, but when I started really getting into jewelry, I started buying from some online retailers and you know, I went for the cheapest things possible. And then I kind of evolved and graduated, and I bought my first piece with Jay Brooks Jewelers, which was a totally different experience. And when the piece arrived, the quality was so beyond the quality of some of my other pieces that I bought. And also, I will say the process of purchasing the piece was so different, and I'm talking about my room tennis necklace from Jay Brooks Jewelers from Courtney's collection. It's such a beautiful piece, such a stunning piece. And so I just had such a different experience there, and it's such a different experience with the piece as well, not just the shopping experience, obviously. And so I realized that there's something happening in terms of quality with certain jewelers compared to what you're getting from other, you know, maybe online retailers who are coming out it with a very barebones price. And so I was chatting with Victoria and she was telling me all these like fun facts about where diamonds can come from, how things can be marketed to look a certain way, but actually not be that high quality. And what I realized is our listeners need to know this information because so many of them are getting engaged. So many of them are building their fine jewelry collection. And so it's just super important to be educated when you're making decisions, especially when you're buying pieces that are hopefully like heirlooms will be passed down. So, Lauren, I think that you explained it perfectly, I think there's a really big difference between buying from a high quality jeweler versus maybe an online retailer, mainly because you don't always know what you're getting. Mm-Hmm. I'd like to say it is that lower, really enticing price, but that doesn't mean that you're necessarily investing in a very high quality piece. And it's unfortunate because of course, we want jewelry to be really accessible to everybody. But you also want to be sure that you're investing in something that is very high quality and something that will be passed down through generations that can stand the test of time. And I do think that's just kind of the personalized experience. In addition to like, we have these incredible stylists and consultants that are so knowledgeable. And so you get that expertise when you come to a high quality jeweler, and it's just kind of like the sheer capabilities that we have in comparison to an online jeweler. I mean, we can we can repair your jewelry, we can reset your jewelry. We can, of course, provide you with something really high quality and beautiful and also customize anything that you want, which is so cool that we can all kind of be jewelry designers in a way. Absolutely. I think it was so funny because I sent in one piece to trade it in and it was a bracelet. I didn't say where it was from. So I was just kind of like hoping that my trade in value would maybe even be higher than I paid for it, right? Because I would see a bracelet of the same carat weight sold online for, you know, three X. What? I paid for it. And so I figured, OK, well, I probably got an amazing deal on this and I'm going to trade it in and level up whatever. Anyway, you guys came back and were like, Thank you so much. You guys said the source was really bad and the quality was really low. And I was like, Oh, OK, there's a reason why this was priced so low, even though online it looks like it's really the same as any other, you know, tennis bracelet. If you are investing in something, it's important to know what you're getting and it's important to know what you're looking for and to go to a trusted source. Yeah. And let me tell you, that was not a phone conversation to have, you know, how wonderful would it be if it came back and it was beautiful quality and we could just see, you know, apples to apples trade something? And I think it is kind of unfortunate that you don't always know what you're getting. Mm hmm. In the online space, I wish things were a little bit different, but and it's a reality. Yeah. But I remember it was the clarity. I think the color was low, but the clarity was particularly low. And the cut of the diamonds also makes a huge difference the way that the diamonds are cut and the proportions of the diamonds, which I can get into a little bit later. I have to say we were with Angie Harrington at BlackBerry Farm in Tennessee, and she had on this tennis necklace. I think she got it from you guys. It's a Norman Silverman, and I just was so blown away by it. I was like, Wow, I get why these things are so expensive. I mean, it's the same thing I felt with the Rome tennis necklace that I never take off because there is just a quality about really is kind of impersonal and it's hard to even describe. So anyway, I think it's really important for people to really know what they're looking for and to go to a trusted jeweler. Victoria, I think let's just start at a very baseline question, like when people are looking for diamonds, are looking for rings, like what should they be looking for, you know, in terms of like the three C's and maybe like walk people through that because I know that like Lauren, is much more up to snuff in this area. I don't know really anything about diamonds. And so like, I think it would be so helpful for you to like, you know, talk to the average everyday diamond novice about what they should be looking for. Yeah, of course. So diamonds, of course, for most people, are going to be their first real investment. So you want to be sure that you're making a very educated decision where you're putting your money, of course. Mm hmm. And so I think that a lot of people, especially women, tend to want to go for size, whereas the men they typically want to do something that's a little bit more of the high quality. This is, generally speaking, doesn't always apply to everybody. But once people come in the store or once we start talking about options, we usually tend to find something in between. Mm yeah. Not everybody needs a color Vive's center stone. You can kind of find something that makes sense for your budget, makes sense for the overall investment value. So of course, there's so many different aspects that go into the pricing and the value of a diamond. And like you mentioned, actually the forces which are color, clarity and carat weight, they all will play a role into the final value and the final retail price of a diamond. So when you're looking, you know, some people. Really see color. That's the first thing that they see, some people see clarity. Mm hmm. The ideal situation is that you can come into the store, we can show you diamonds. But now with technology, I mean, we can show you a picture of it and you can see just as well, if not even better, because it's 3x, right? Seeing a diamond so close. Quick little story on this was looking at a piece of jewelry online and it looked spectacular and it was like kind of in that white space rendering. I guess the photo was. Yeah, and I could not tell that the diamonds were actually brown or like, I think they call them are like champagne or whatever. I couldn't really tell that online. And the one I went in person, I was like, Oh my gosh, these are like much darker than I thought. And like the piece of jewelry that I was looking at like I would. There was a big difference in what I saw online and what I like saw in person, and I am so glad that I went in person to like, Look at it. Yeah, it makes a huge difference. I mean, I think every image online that you're seeing has been altered in some way. So you just want to be sure that you're seeing the diamond in its natural form in a way. The other thing is like it looks different in every lighting, it looks different inside jewelry store. It looks different when you walk outside the store and you can see in the natural light. And what we always do when we're showing diamonds is we always walk people outside. We want for them to see this diamond in the natural light, how it's going to look every single day. So there's a lot that goes into it. And what's really amazing is that, of course, now is people's behaviors have changed and of course, people are wanting to buy online. We've kind of replicated this in-store experience to something that is via text or via yes name, or we've created that experience virtually, which is really great. We're just always changing it, of course, as we see the need, right? OK, so let's say someone saying, I want to get an engagement ring. I want it to be the biggest size possible, but I don't want to have a champagne diamond or a diamond that is obviously not white. What color do you think you can go down to before it starts to get obvious that it's like a darker diamond? Yeah. So in round diamonds, you can actually get away with a little bit more color. It's kind of just the way that the proportions are on the cut. So in around, I would say you could probably go down to an inch or an eye color before it feels totally optimal. And then if you were to compare that same color to a cushion cut or an emerald cut, it's going to look whiter than a fancy cup. It's just the way the proportions are. And then as far as fancy shapes, stones which are ovals, emerald cuts, cushions, pear shapes, I would say about good age color is when you can really start to see see the color, so it goes it's a little bit higher on the fancy chacha chan. I just have to tell you, I woke up in the middle of the night last night with a little bit of anxiety. I had half an early bird gummy and I swear to you within 30 minutes, I was peacefully dozing off. Early bird CBD gummies are magic. They're truly magic. They are literally magic. I don't want to travel without them. I don't want to be without them. I think it's the twelve point five milligrams of CBD, two point five milligrams of THC. It's that little c**ktail. It gives you the warmest gulyas fuzzy feeling. If you're so good, it's so light. Also, one bottle last so long, it's a lot of product. Also, I feel like I prefer it to drinking at this point. Absolutely. You guys go to Earlybird CBD. Com Use Code Pop Apologists 20 for 20 percent off your order. You will not regret it. Earlybird CBD Icon Use Code Pop Apologist 20 Channeling You mentioned the forces' which, of course, each aspect of the forces are going to change your value. But at Jay Brooks, we are so particular about the cut. And when I say I don't mean maybe the shape of the diamond, I'm actually talking about the proportions that the diamonds are cut to. So the way that we think about diamonds is actually that the top of the diamond where you would look down is kind of a series of windows and then the bottom of the diamond, where it comes down to the point that part of the diamond is a series of mirrors when the light hits the diamond. It will go through the top of the diamond, which is the windows, and it comes down to the bottom and reflects off the series of mirrors on the bottom of the diamond. So essentially, if the diamond isn't cut to the proper proportions and let's say, for example, around if it's not cut to an excellent or ideal cut is the perfect cut of around diamond. It's not going to reflect this beautiful, sparkly, brilliant diamond. So if it's too short, too shallow to narrow, it can start to look really blah. It can start to look kind of dark. It can make your color. Worse, it doesn't have that brilliance that a perfectly cut diamond does or really beautifully cut diamond does. It's honestly so interesting because I find myself honestly looking at loose stones a lot, which is so dumb. I will pop up on rare casually. Yeah, because Meghan Markle has this emerald solitaire pinky ring. I think it's by Lorraine Schwartz, and so I want to replicate it at some point in my life. And so anyway, I'll hop on a rare carat and learn that I can't afford to do it again about, you know, for the second time that week. But when I'm looking, when I'm doing the thing, where I'm filtering the cut for me, I'm always like, I barely know what that means, so I don't really care about the cut. It doesn't matter if it's maybe less than ideal cut. So that's really good to know. You really need to look out for the cut and to make sure that this is going to be something that sparkles and hopefully packs that punch. So that's really good to know. I kind of want to put together a little slide for you to share it, too. So it's kind of descriptive people can visualize what the difference in a cut would do. Yeah, that's okay with you because it's so crazy when you get something that's really shallow. The reason we see diamonds that are cut poorly are either a people aren't paying attention or B, they are trying to keep the most amount of carat way they can. So they they have these diamonds that are really clunky or the top of the diamond is really heavy looking. And so it's not the proper proportions. So you just you're aren't going to get that sparkle that you would. And something that we've always done is if people have, let's say, like a diamond that they inherited that came from the 20s or 30s and they didn't quite know how to cut, not in like an antique cut way. It's just kind of cut poorly. Yeah, just a bad cut. We'll take it and we'll recut it for them. And then they are blown away by how beautiful it looks because it looks like a completely different diamond. That's so interesting. It's just crazy. Do you just don't even know about all these different variables? Mm hmm. Just to a novice like myself, I could walk into somewhere and get totally swindled because I just have no idea about all the different ways that quality can be lost. Yeah. And I think unfortunately, people do often. Yeah, yeah. Curious for you, like when it comes to engagement rings, like what are you seeing as the trend, as the priority for people looking to get engaged, get into like things you're seeing with engagement rings? Yeah. So as far as trends go. Of course, in the past couple of years, lab grown diamonds have been introduced into the market. And so the sheer size of a diamond has increased in people's minds so much that most people when they come in, they're thinking they can get a three or four carat, which is the reality today is that if they wanted to go down the lab-grown option, they can. It is so affordable. And even in the last year, I mean, lab grown diamonds have decreased in value immensely, which is great for somebody who's buying. It's not great for somebody who bought their lifeguarding diamond two years ago. So, yeah, that's changed the market completely, right? I think we're all used to seeing or, you know, anyone who's explore page has engagement rings on it is just used to seeing massive rocks like, I think it kind of gives you a warped sense of how big diamonds are like, how big a carat is because everyone on the, you know, hashtag engagement rings thread on Instagram has at least like a three carat ring. Yeah, I think it creates as really distorted perception for people where they go to get their engagement ring. And what they discover is that if they want a ring like they're seeing on Instagram, if that's going to be a natural diamond, that's going to be $70000. Yeah, $50000. Some crazy price tag if they want that four or five carat, or they can get that as a lab-grown diamond for probably under $10000, under $15000, which is insane. I'll just have to say it was so crazy because I was home in California. I was in Newport Beach on Lido Island, and all the girls like working at the Real Real, working at Alice Walker. These shops they all had on their fingers like these five carat rings like girls working in retail, had $80000 rings on their fingers. And I was just like, Whoa, everyone now has a huge five carat stone. I think it's just kind of flipped everything on its head. And to your point, Chandler has created this strange situation where it's like, Do I want this huge, massive rock? Do I want people to think like I have an $80000 ring? Or do I want to go for something that is more really within my wheelhouse? And so I don't know. It definitely has changed the game for sure, and it's just completely changed the game. We had no idea it was coming, of course. And. And they're fairly new to the market, and they're just I mean, in the past couple of years as far as lab grown diamonds, I mean, they've they've just blown up. Which is why the price decreased so much. And yeah. Mm. And the hard thing about it is you can't predict what a lab grown diamonds value will do. And then, of course, like you have this diamond dysmorphia where you have no idea if people's stones are a natural or alive, which of course it doesn't matter. The other person knows. If you have a lot of gardener, a natural literally doesn't matter. But it does create this really false sense of what is big, what is small, what is affordable. And so, yeah, that does get really confusing. And I do feel like there's a lot of noise around that, especially on Instagram. I think diamond dysphoria is the perfect way to articulate it. That must be everyone's experience when they come into shop with you because they're like, Whoa. Yeah, especially if people want a natural. I mean, then they put a natural one carat on, which was probably more along the lines of their budget. And they're like, Oh, look, so tiny. You know? Yeah, right? It's just changed so much. Victoria, can you quickly break down natural, lab-grown and then like, what do you mean as I'm night? I feel like people might not be totally familiar with, like all the different options, stone wise. Yeah. So a lab-grown diamond and a natural diamond, they are essentially identical. The only big difference is, of course, their value and how they were made. So, of course, a lab-grown diamond was made in a laboratory and a natural diamond was grown in the Earth that takes at least a billion years. So that is where you get the main difference, but they're the same identical carbon properties. Mm hmm. And then the moistened eye is actually diamond simulant and actually stems from a meteorite that was found that they recreated in a lab, which is kind of insane. Wow. The biggest difference is because a moist night is double refractive, so it actually catches more color than an actual time in what we call the disco ball. Sometimes you can see like purples and reds and pinks, and it just has really different color. But of course, like before Lab-Grown had gotten so popular, that was our number one alternative to Diamond. Yeah, I mean, I guess now I'm very curious. Like what percentage of natural versus lab-grown would you say that you sell? I would say probably in terms of pieces that were sold, it's probably about 70 percent lab and 30 percent natural, which is insane. And in the last year, it's gone up like crazy. But in dollar amount, it's still probably around 75 percent natural and 25 percent light brown, just because the the value is so different. Right, right. I think you really can tell the difference between a moistened eye and a diamond, and not to say that one is not as good as the other. I think I'm just saying that aesthetically there is a different look. There's a more sparkly, more colorful look to the moistened eye versus a whiter, a little bit less sparkly look to a diamond, and it really is about preference. I am just interested, though, about what this is going to look like in terms of moistened nights, because if lab grown diamonds are just going down in price year over year, I wonder if the moisture night market is kind of also being taken over by lab grown diamonds because people aren't looking to them as alternatives anymore. Yeah, it's a really great question. The moist notes have decreased in value, and it's also because they're just more players, they're more people that are creating them. Like you said, they aren't nearly as requested, just because lab grown diamonds are pretty soon going to match their value. That's wild. So, I mean, that's what we're thinking at some point in LA near the finance school. So you understand this much more than I do, but at some point they will plateau. You know, it's not just going to keep decreasing, it's going to stop at some point. Now, more people are going to lean toward a lab grown diamond versus buying a snake any day just because, yes, the aesthetic difference, it actually is a diamond. So we'll see in the next few years how it goes. I think that it's such an interesting pickle to be in because there's a part of me that would say, OK, of course you'd want a natural diamond like you want the quote unquote real thing. But then I think, well, natural diamonds like the supply of them, it's an artificial scarcity like De Beers is created, this environment where there's only a certain amount in the market, but really they're actually not rare stones. And so I think I can understand the mentality of deciding, OK, well, if it's not even rare to begin with genuinely, if it is artificially scarce, then why not just go for the thing that is less expensive? And the thing that is more environmentally friendly? But then you also don't want to feel like your ring isn't worth very much so. It's like such a strange situation to be in when buying one, if it's all about the aesthetic and just the fact of having something beautiful in your hand. Daniel Lab-Grown Diamond is a beautiful option. It's a diamond, so that's great. But if you're thinking in terms of investment and you want to put your money into something that you could one day sell or that will hold its value, then natural diamonds are the only real investment there. It's the only really real way to go. Let's say you bought a diamond and it was twenty five thousand dollars and ten years down the road. Do you want to resell it? What do you think the value it would hold from that original purchase price? Like, do you think you can reasonably expect to resell a diamond at 75 percent? Because I have heard people say that diamonds are hard to resell even natural ones. Yeah, the cash resale value is going to be different than, of course, a trade resale value. Of course, it will always be different. So for example, if you were to buy a natural diamond at Brooks, or even not even if you hadn't bought the diamond AJ Brooks, we always will take that diamond what you paid for it specifically, if it was bought with us and trade it toward anything like you don't lose one dollar, you could trade it to support any, any other stone, any larger stone that you'd like. For us, it's it's essentially cash in a way we just are going to trade goods. Mm hmm. They're not going to change over time, which is very different from a ring. As far as value goes like an actual ring will wear, it's not going to hold his value as very similar to a car, but a diamond never wears. It doesn't change. So it's essentially identical as to when you purchased it. But yeah, as far as a cash value, you'll never get exactly what you paid for in cash back. And that's just, yeah, the same in any industry. Yeah, for sure. Of course, I'm curious. Speaking of investments? Hmm. Besides an engagement ring, you know, not necessarily an engagement ring. What is a good investment piece for, you know, a woman to buy herself in terms of jewelry? Great question as well. I think the number one fashion piece would be diamond studs, and it's the same idea is that you are you're investing in larger stones that can be either traded or sold as far as as far as investment value goes. And then after that, I would say like a diamond pendant with the same idea, like a larger stone in the center. That would also be a really great way to start investing in jewelry, right? And then I would say probably an eternity band would be a really great investment, too. But the more you can stay in larger stones vs. a ring with a bunch of small, tiny diamonds in it. The larger stone is always going to be a better long term investment than a ring with interesting small diamonds, because essentially when you're buying that ring, you're paying so much for the labor to set all of those diamonds that the actual cash value of what the stones are worth are going to feel like. It's less than what you paid for. Got it. OK, that's really good to know. Also, what do you think about investing in watches and maybe like a piece from like a luxury brand that might hold its value because I think those are also fun purchases that you can make for yourself. So you're not always relying on, you know, a proposal or a guy to get you a piece of jewelry. I would say as far as watches go, the best watch brands hold their value. The top one would be Rolex. Of course, it's one of the top 10 luxury brands in the world. Even a second hand. Rolex is a great investment. They're always going to sell for you what you paid for, or maybe more. Mm hmm. Another one would be Patek Philippe would be a great investment, and Omar would be probably a close third. But even Cartier would be a great investment, mainly just because people want them. And I think that's whatever's trending in the market and what you know you could sell because, you know, somebody would want to buy it. Obviously, it would be a great investment. Yeah. So those are the watch brands that really hold their value. Mm-Hmm. Rolex is number one for sure, right? It's a phenomenon. What Rolex is, it's crazy has created. It's pretty amazing. So I would love to talk about the Jay Brooks bridal collection because there are so many places online that are going to sell a ring that by name itself, it could look very similar, right? It could be a solitaire, or it could be one of these other designs. But when we're talking about, OK, you know, this is a trusted source, you know that the creation of this ring, specifically, it will have those X factors that make it really, really beautiful in person. So what standards are met so that those rings really stand out and you can trust that collection when you're looking for your engagement ring? Yeah. We are so excited about this collection. It's something that's been in the works for, I mean, essentially twenty five years because we've been testing the perfect techniques, the right aesthetic looks, and we've been testing this since we've been in business. I'm on the product development team and past couple years we've been really pushing to get this put together and created. And I'm just so pleased with how it turned out because the vast variation of engagement ring styles each ring is set by. We have some of the top bench jewelers, in my opinion and our opinion in the country, and they are just so particular about how they set these diamonds and how they set the stones. And it shows, especially in person, I mean, online, it's beautiful, but in person you can tell the craftsmanship is just unlike any other. So as far as the actual rings in the JBJ bridal collection, we don't compromise on the weight of the metal at all. We want to be sure it feels very heavy. It feels very important. Of course, this is going to be something that you're going to wear your entire life. So we wanted it to feel very fine. And of course, the setting themselves, the prongs that we use, not everybody can do those beautiful pointed prongs. It takes a very skilled jeweler to do something like that. Well, it's funny that you say that because I've actually seen that like these really thin gold bands or like the, you know, the style of the singular stone and then a really thin band is actually can be really dangerous. It can because like, yeah, it can't support it. Or it could break down in a perfect world if you're not doing anything with your ring. You know, what's your not like? Of course you're it's meant to be worn. It's meant to be something that you can wear every day, of course, like we don't want you to go to the gym with it and we don't want to swim in the ocean. You could lose it. So, you know, it's supposed to be something that you want to wear every day. So that's why we really bulked up the metal in the sense of I wanted it just to feel so heavy and important and something, yeah, is timeless. So I think that is interesting because, of course, on Instagram, everything is this tiny, skinny, skinny band, super skinny, you know, and we've made really skinny bands before, and we've done it in a in a way that's super safe. But our standard is to have it be a little bit more bulked up, and that's just so it will last. You forever like that is going to yeah, it's like, I'm sure there's a little bit of push and pull with like how big the diamond is. Like what I'm mainly talking about are like massive, like four or five carat rings with extremely thin bands. Yeah. You know, it just seems so pretty. Areas like over the years, we've had a lot of rings come back from other jewelers. Of course, I'm not going to name anybody but other jewelers that have come back and they have held up because the band was so tiny. And these diamond bands that even like just a gold band one with diamonds on the shank and it's super, super ultra thin, they always bend. They just do interesting. And it also depends on the metal that was used. And there's a lot of things that go into that. And I mean, people don't wear their rings. The same one person can be so hard on it, and one person can be really delicate and never hardly get a scratch. So right, it's all very relative. I have a more technical question for you. How can someone tell if something's pure gold gold plated or like gold vermeil? What's the difference between those? Because I don't know. So we love to hear as well. As far as like a 14 karat gold ring, for example, versus a gold plated ring, initially, I can see that the gold plated is most of the times very brassy. And that's like the visual aesthetic that you can tell right away if it's if it's real or not. But of course, like everything is stamped, if it's 14 carat, 10 carat, 18 karat. It's always going to be stamped on the inside of the ring on the chain somewhere in a really rare case, like it's been worn out and you can't see a stamp if you feel like there's something that you have in your collection or maybe maybe an inherited heirloom collection that you can't see a stamp. We can always test it in a different way. But yes, it's for the most part you can tell right away just by the sheer color stamps were there around every ring. That's genuine, pure gold or like that 14 or 18 karat gold. But I think especially like, for example, if you see a herringbone chain, you can tell right away if it's gold versus pleated because it's very silky, just because gold kind of reacts that way. So the actual material used, it looks really different. And in a chain, particularly in a herringbone chain, you can kind of see right away the difference. Whereas like, like at the plate, it lays flatter. Yeah, no. It lays. It just lays prettier in a way. Yeah, I totally noticed that. Yeah, as I've seen those necklaces like, come back into style. Like, I feel like I can tell which ones are like family heirlooms and which ones are like from Amazon, which now Tina Shade I sometimes buy. Oh no, Amazon, I'm embarrassed to admit to you, but yeah, please don't be. But no, yeah, it's just kind of like it just looks a little bit silkier. I don't know how it's to. Yeah, it's inscribe it and you can see side by side. Of course, that one is just much more brassy. And of course, like over time, and that's when you really can tell if it's genuine or not. The pleated version is going to tarnish its it's not going to hold its color that you original out of that, but that takes a little bit of time to see that just so our listeners know what is the difference. Obviously, we all know pure gold is pure gold, solid gold. What is the difference, though, between gold plated and Vermaelen? OK, so gold plated is typically over materials such as like copper or brass, and that's mainly what you see when you buy. I would assume from Amazon, we don't really work in the gold plated or gold vermeil space, but gold vermeil is actually similar to gold plating, but it's over sterling silver, so it's a thin layer of gold over sterling silver, which would last longer than a gold plated version, of course. And if you're using pure metals like find metals like sterling, silver and gold, that's always going to be better than brass or copper. Yeah, the one thing I will say is I when I first started really getting into jewelry, I bought a lot of different things at low price points. And I think the thing that I ended up realizing down the road is what I actually wear and what I actually love and the things that I'm truly obsessed with are the really high quality pieces I bought. And I think that you're better off waiting and saving and buying that piece. That's that solid gold or buying that piece. That's a really high quality version of what you want, even if it takes you longer to get it rather than compromising because the difference in quality is really stark. I mean, especially when we're talking about gold versus gold, vermeil or gold plated, it can be a little overwhelming when you're trying to build your jewelry collection, especially at this age. But I think if you look at jewelry as, OK, I'm going to invest in this piece because I know I'm going to wear it for years and years to come. You wait and you buy those pieces and those really exciting, fun milestones in your lives and and it tells a story. You don't have to buy everything all at once. And if you just wanted it to have something to wear, you can always buy the Amazon piece. But like you say it, the. Color is going to change, it's it's not going to be something that you're going to want to wear for longer than maybe a year or two. Yeah, in my opinion and my experience. Absolutely. And you can also combine it so you can, you know, save up for that really nice piece. And then maybe if you just want something for a fun look, you can grab, you know, a $25 Amazon for a couple of nights and you're not sweating it. So no shade on mixing those strategies, for sure. Yeah, I think it's great. I think, too, with buying a mix of high and low, like I find that, you know, I really look after the nicer pieces, obviously, and you like, I don't know. I feel like when I know a piece of jewelry is like cheap or it's just something I could reorder in a second, like, I'm more careless with it. And so I've just started to like, try to shift my mentality like, OK, like, I actually want to be investing in more pieces that I don't lose. And I'm not, as you know, willy nilly with, you know, because I just, I want to like, hold on to these things and like, treasure them forever. Totally. And it's the same thing with like fast fashion. I don't know. I think I says women like, we want everything all at once. But when we do that, we regret it and we're like, Oh, I wish I would have waited and found the piece that I knew I wanted, right? It can be kind of a capsule jewelry item or a capsule clothing item kind of thing. Speaking of fine jewelry that I have the chance chain came about because of, you know, Grandma Marjorie gave me this gorgeous locket and the chain that came with it was really special and really different. And, you know, it was something that, like Courtney would borrow from me and that her and I always loved and we wish that there were more of them. And now you and your amazing efforts all over Europe were able to like source more of this particular type of chain, right? Or tell us more about how like that came about. It was an insane journey of house. I'll start that way. But when Courtney originally reached out to me to recreate this chain, I mean, I looked high and low. We looked at every possible manufacturer that we already had that we had access to, and this chain seemed to be completely nonexistent. It was an antique chain that was completely out of production. We could no longer find it. So Courtney and I were so determined to find and recreate this chain, along with the clasp that was also completely out of production and just impossible to find. So at the time I was living in Paris, where I had been living for a long time, and it happened to me that we could go over to Italy and go manufacture to manufacture until we found the perfect chain. But we finally found it. We drove from, like the entire country of Italy in a week to find this chain, and I'm so happy we did because it is quite literally the most beautiful chain. It's got a diamond cut. It's very sparkly. The links are unlike anything I've ever seen, so it's been really cool and it's been really very fun to be able do that. And it was so fun to to meet you. And you know, the chance of the chanting was so exciting. Oh no, it's it's really special, and I'm so glad that, you know there's now more of them, you know, it was. It's such a special piece to everyone. You know, she's got one if they want. I just honestly think that the channel chain is such a great example of the fact that a piece of jewelry doesn't have to be a $10000 necklace or, yeah, a $30000 ring. Or, you know, one of these crazy purchases that really are so rare that most of us are at a time in our life when we can buy something like that. But something like a $600 gold necklace, that is something that literally was passed down, you know, from my grandmother to Chandler and is now having the Second Life. And this is not the craziest, most expensive piece of jewelry, but it's something that has stood the test of time and that is the power of fine jewelry, right? These are things that can become something that your grandchild gives to their grandchild, and that is just mind blowing. As I get older, because of course, I grew up in the industry, I grew up around jewelry. But as I get older, I mean, I am constantly amazed by how sentimental these pieces are. In addition to being like a great investment, they are so meaningful and like you say, they can be passed down to your grandchild, grandchild. I mean, that's that's incredible. It's not a $30000 diamond, it's a gold chain that is beautiful, so unique and in Chandler's case, would be a representation of your grandmother, which is priceless. I have a piece. My favorite piece for my grandmother is just she didn't have a very extensive story collection, but my favorite pieces like a 10 mm sterling silver band. And the reason I love it so much is just because when I wear it, it just reminds me of. Of her wearing it every day. She never took it off, so there are things that are just irreplaceable and priceless. That's part of like the reason that I am so in the camp of like buy one piece a year, buy one piece every two or three years saying, OK, I'm not going to get the $16 Amazon one, I'm going to save up. I'm going to get the real thing, even if it takes me a minute to get the chain chain or whatever. You know, you're looking at it does end up being something that you just wear all the time and you really love. And so I think that's what's so special about fine jewelry. Yeah, I agree. And I think it's kind of a almost a way of life to buy in that way. I think as I get older, I'm trying my best to kind of shift into that mindset where, you know, quality versus quantity and investing in pieces. I mean, it's the same for. You know, I don't need to buy 10 pairs of shoes every year. I can buy a couple pairs that are really high quality and are going to last a long time and are in that capsule piece and you just continue to build on it. You don't need to have it all at once in a way. Exactly. Absolutely. I think that perfectly coincides with engagement rings, right? Because you might be at a place in your life where you could get that five carat stone or you could get the one carat and then another time in your life upgrade. And it actually makes more sense for the place you are in your life to have that one carat stone or if you want the big rock and that's what you want, go for it. But I think that there's something cool about letting your jewelry tell a story and letting that first engagement ring that you might give to your daughter some day because you've upgraded 10 years down the road. You know, be a piece that marked a specific time in your life, and I especially even engagement rings. I don't think you have to think of it as the only ring you'll ever wear. And so that's why I just want to say, like, I do think that if you're buying an engagement ring and you're trying to decide, you don't have to go for the ultimate thing and compromise on potentially quality or color or cut or clarity, you can go for the thing that makes sense for your life right now. And it's gorgeous. And then think, OK, yeah, five 10 years down the road, I might want to upgrade, and that's like a fun thing to look forward to. Yeah, I love that. You could not have said it better. They really can mark milestones in your lives. And I think that, like you say, you build up to it. And if you ever wanted to trade in that first engagement ring, that's the option. But if if it comes down to it, you're ready to upgrade and you want to keep that ring to pass down, to tell the story or repurpose it into a necklace of some sort, it all kind of plays a role into your your legacy as to say of your jewelry collection in a way, for sure. So you guys, you're lucky or your main guy who makes the jewelry in Salt Lake City, you said the craftsmanship is the same as Cartier. And so I would love for you to share about that and really share how special the quality is from Jay Brook's pieces. So we have a couple like I mentioned, we have a couple of incredible bench jewelers. They are the best in the industry. They can essentially create anything that you want. The Jay Brooks Bridal Collection is our top creme de la creme like perfect pieces. They are the top quality and the craftsmanship that they're capable of is rare. Mm-Hmm. And really, I mean, you can have all of the diamonds and gold in the world, but it's not going to be beautiful until you have an artisan that can set it. I think that's it. My personal favorite thing about the brand. OK, so last question, Victoria, what are the trends you're seeing in jewelry in 2023? The things people are really into right now? And what do you think that you know is coming bezel set is huge this year, which I've loved. Similar to your tennis necklace, it gives it a really different look, including what we added to our bridal collection. We did add quite a few bezel set engagement rings to our bridal collection, which happened to be some of my absolute favorites. So that's huge. I would say pearls are full blown coming back, which they've never necessarily gone out, but they've kind of shifted from your grandma's pearls to something with a really cool design aspect. So we have that which a lot of the pieces in Courtney's collection actually are pearls, which we loved. I would say like a bold gold statement, earrings or even white gold or sterling silver. I feel like that white, high polished metal has been trending the past little bit, and it just kind of gives us really different high polish. Look, that gold just doesn't give. So that's been really fun to see. White gold have its moment. Yeah, that's so interesting about pearls. I did not know that. But you're right, they're classic and they've never really gone out of style. Thank you so much, Victoria, for coming on. I just want to tell everyone I had the best experience making my wedding band with Jay Brooks. And so I think that you guys, if you are looking for an engagement ring or you're looking to get your next piece, I highly recommend reaching out to Jay Brooks. Reach out. Damn them. You guys are on Instagram. Jay Brooks Jewelers in Jay Brooks Jewelers dot com. Thank you so much, Victoria, for coming on. Thank you so much for having me. It was really fun to chat about all things fine jewelry. I loved it, of course. OK, you guys. So this episode is really exciting because we are also pairing it with a giveaway. So to celebrate this episode, we are doing a $1000 gift card towards a piece at Jay Brooks. This is incredible. This is insane. It's a super exciting giveaway. So all you have to do to enter is follow Jay Brooks Jewelers and follow pop apologists on Instagram. And then you just comment and tag three other people in the giveaway, and that will be your entry and then for five additional entries. Share the episode to your stories. Include a link so people can listen and don't forget to tag us. That way, we'll see it, and we'll record it. That'll be five additional entries so, so excited to do that. Thank you so much, Victoria. Oh, of course, I'm so excited. I've loved all of the great questions that your listeners sent in. It was really fun to talk about everything, so thank you for how amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much for all the kind words. You're incredible. You guys, all you guys know what? You guys are the best truly at the US experience. All right. You guys will catch you next week and definitely enter the giveaway. Bye bye. Thank you. That's all for now, folks. Don't forget, give us a five star review. Hit us up on Instagram at pharmacologists, and we will see you next week. Live every Wednesday. Earn as you go with our pizza. Explore current account, earn up to ?5 cashback a month as you pay with your card and earn up to five percent cashback when you pay bills with our partners and it all comes together for an everyday banking experience that's altogether more human pizza. Apply in app and start earning today. Qualifying criteria, terms and conditions apply. Five cent back in car purchases up to five euros per month. Bills pay by direct debit required account partners and benefits are subject to change after a monthly maintenance fee applies. Other charges may apply over 18 personal customers and East End Zone. Permanent TSB Peel Some trading as PTSD is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland.