Cauliflower Ear and American Idol

Transcript

Today, not Sam wrestling, Nick Aldis is here to give his side of the story on why he's leaving the NWA. This is not Sam wrestling, introducing your host from New York. Here is Sam Roberts. Boy, oh boy, we got a hot one today. Welcome to the Not Sam wrestling. We're dropping this episode early because I really wanted you to hear this story, so you may not know if you've been living under a rock. One of the hottest stories in wrestling over the last week has been all of the drama going on and Billy Corgan NWA. I guess if you've been totally ignorant to what the NWA has been up to over the last five years, Nick Aldis is the superstar that's been most closely associated with that brand. You can go through the archives of this podcast and you can find interviews that I did with him as the NWA champion when he was a part of the ten pounds of gold video series when he was kind of not only telling the story of the brand, but going town to town and defending the title when he was going to all in and defending the title against Cody Rhodes in a in a in a story that I think a lot of people still remember as the buildup to that pay per view well on Sunday evening. I was as surprised as a lot of people were when a video came out. Now, apparently, this video was meant to only go out to the people on Nick Aldis subscription side of his Instagram. You know, on Instagram, you can sign up and have people pay a subscription and those people get special content. He says this was supposed to be part of that special content, but he puts out this video where he announces he has given his notice to the NWA and that as of January, his time in the NWA will be up, he says. And I'm paraphrasing that he did say that he found the product embarrassing at this point to be associated with, and that was, you know, controversial. A day after less than 24 hours removed from that video coming out and everybody buzzing about the fact that Nick Aldis had very publicly given his notice, now I should say the video, which he said was meant for only his subscribers, went to everybody that follows him on Instagram. So everybody that followed Nick Aldis, he published it as public, so everybody immediately saw it. He deleted it, but the damage had been done. The news got out there. Everybody had seen it. So. The next day, the NWA puts out a press release, and it says that Nick Aldis has been suspended. And isn't going to be a part of the next couple of shows that they're doing, which led people to wonder how can one be suspended after they've quit the organization? But the NWA said he was suspended after that a day after that on Tuesday, Billy Corgan, who is the guy who runs the NWA owns it, went on the busted open show on Sirius XM and kind of blasted, in my opinion, Nick Aldis specifically for what he said going scorched earth, which felt like an exaggeration, but being very public about his not liking the way the NWA product had evolved and being public about the fact that he had that he had submitted his notice. So I had a lot of questions about this. I ended up in conversation with Nick Aldis. And as I've said to a great many people, my door is, of course, open to you. And he decided to walk through that door. The forbidden, not Sam door. So Nick Aldis sits down with me today to tell his entire side of the story. Now, beyond wrestling, Nick Aldis is also, uh, uh, running a company called Legacy. Substack. Com That's legacy subs, sups, dot com. Uh, a bunch of supplements on there. They've got Test X nine, which is a natural natural testosterone booster recovery p.m., which is a sleeping aid that people just rave about, especially because of how important sleep is when you are, you know, trying to be your best self and you can put promo code, not Sam in for 10 percent off at legacy subs, sups dot com. So check that out after you listen to this. This entire interview is also available on the Not Sam wrestling YouTube channel. So if you prefer to watch interviews like this, I know I do, because you can see body language and facial expressions and everything that's it's available in its entirety over at YouTube.com Slash, not Sam Wrestling, or you can listen to this and then also watch it later, whatever you want to do. Here's my conversation with Nick Aldis, the Not Sam wrestling interview. Here we are. Here we are. Welcome. I even know where to begin. Welcome to the Not Sam studio. Uh, at a very interesting point in his life. Nick Aldis, first of all, thank you for making the trip up. Thank you for having me. Yeah, thank you for being here. What a what a great. What a smooth start. Yeah, chit chatting for ages. And then was there? Yeah. Where do we go? Well, Nick, what's the haps? Is an inauspicious start to proceedings, folks. Yeah, yeah. So how, how how are you? I'm fine. You know, I made a I made a little post on my birthday, and I try not to give too many of the life coaching, you know, preachy sort of posts because I'm well aware and completely agree that they're utterly cringe. But I, you know, I just I was like. There was a sort of energy around me. We went down to the to the to the Florida Alabama coast for the weekend. Mickey Duck takes part in the songwriters festival every year, so they always usually comes over my birthday and they always provide us with a nice condo on the beach and stuff like that. So it's kind of like a nice. Relaxed sort of way to spend my birthday because I don't want a party I don't like, you know, I don't really like celebrate my birthday. Yeah, so it's kind of a nice excuse. We can go to the beach this November. You know, it's too cold. It's cold in Tennessee now. It's still nice and, you know, down there. But I was just, you know, sitting there and Mickey was across the way like doing one of her sets, and I had taken my son to the park. We'd had a nice day. We'd been to the beach and I was sitting there smoking a cigar and just kind of enjoying the sunshine. And I thought, you know? Like, here's where I'm at with everything, and I wrote about being like, they say that depression is living in the past and anxiety is living in the future. And the hardest thing to do is to be present, and I totally understand that it's I agree it's is hard to be present. And I was and I said, you know, today I'm just being totally present. Yeah, like just not worrying about anything else. And yes, the future is uncertain now, but you it's up to you how you deal with it. You got two choices either be fearful of it or be excited about it, and I'm excited about it. Well, yeah, I mean, it's wide open and it really is interesting because regardless of what happens 20 years from now, you'll be all right. Right? Like, it's like, it's like you'll be fine, right? Eventually. But I mean, honestly, you know, two months from now, who knows? Amazing things could be happening. Well, it's kind of you to say, and I've said, excuse me, I've certainly seen a lot of sentiment to that effect, but I've been around long enough to know that, you know, it's sentiments for dollars. Get you a cup of coffee. Nothing. Nothing is real until it's real, you know? And that's not even the truth is. Never let let's just let's let's just talk about the elephant in the room. Yeah, yeah, of course, hold the world inadvertently that I had given my notice to the end. OK, so all right, first of all, was it inadvertently because you go like and I do now because I follow you on Instagram? And I got a little notification that it said, you can sign up to be a subscriber. I was like, I'm not signing up to be a subscriber. I used to do that, too. I said, Okay, that's a good idea. And I thought, Well. I I did it I was planning to to let my fans know that I give him my notice. You know? But not in a not in a nefarious way, you know, and certainly not in a in a sort of negative way. I was just going to let people know, Hey, I've decided to move on like I've given my notice so that my final, you know, shows with the NBA would. The people would know that. Sure. This is it right? But I thought, hey, this is a good opportunity to give something exclusive to my subscribers. And then a couple of days from now, I'll I'll then, you know, I'll then let everyone else know and then and then those people will go, Hey, this was worth it. And it will, hopefully. Yeah, because you know, the whole thing about paywall content you need, it's got to be stuff that people feel, you know, is worth the money. Yeah. I was my first time I thought I had done everything right, I click the little button that said subscribers only, but I guess maybe because it's a real I don't know. I, you know, I still have no idea because I so this is this is exactly how it happened. Like I said, I was, I was on the terrace on the condo. I just decided. Scripts do that, you know, like just let you know just very candid, sort of, you know, honest. That's how I've built my fan base is, you know, authenticity. Mm-Hmm. And then when that was done, we had dinner reservations. And so I and I was like, we got enough time to just go get like a little 30 minute cardio in the fitness center. So I go, I go do 30 minutes of cardio. And by the time I come back, I see people going like, Man, that was really it was really great what you said, and I'm going, Wait a minute, I don't think he's a subscriber, you know, like I don't have. That's my friend. They did a lot of subscribing. My friends have paying this. See Mike and I went, Emmitt and I did that. I probably shouldn't have even bothered. I should've just left it. But whatever. Yeah, I got it. Texted to me, and by the time it was texted to me, it was deleted. Yeah. So but look, I gave my notice. I said I gave my notice. And I sort of alluded to why it certainly wasn't intended to be this sort of. You know, burial of of the NWA or anything like that. Yeah. Why would I do that? I should be burying myself there. Yeah, that's that's the question. A lot of the thing that I've, you know, the thing that I've been most heavily associated with for the last five years. And then I would turn around and go, It sucks. Like, no, I didn't know it's it's so well, OK, so let me let me go back a little bit. Yeah, because I mean, we've done interviews before. Yeah. And when we did those interviews you, it was from the beginning when you were doing the ten pounds of gold sort of series digital series will say. And I, like most wrestling fans, thought those were great. And it was like it. It it certainly built this NWA brand, right, which as rich as the history was and is, was not an active brand. And it was like, Oh, there's a story. And I mean, as I've said it in every medium, I could possibly say it. That's what attracts me to pro wrestling is stories. Yeah. And it's like, Oh, look at look, there's a story being told that I can connect with. It's being shot well, it's being told well and it's being presented in a serious manner. And you coming up and doing interviews, having the title with you, wearing suits, looking like a superstar. It was all part of a bigger package. You started going and doing all kinds of shows and everything represented it all in which we'll talk about. But after all that? I think that's why it was so first alarming that you were leaving the NWA, you were the superstars solely be alarming. It probably wouldn't be alarming for people who had been following the product for the last year. Hmm. Like, I'm sure that to them, they I'm sure for them couldn't have come as much of a surprise, you know? But I understand what you're saying and appreciate it like. I I try to avoid saying anything like this, because there's no way to say it without sounding, you know, like you're sort of self-promoting and, you know, being egotistical. But yes, I was I was the sort of perennial face of the of the brand, you know? I heard an interview is the interview that at Triple H two with Ariel Helwani on Ariel Osman about next. You know, and how it changed. And you know, and it to me, his answers sort of mirrors how I feel and always about the way like it. It moved away from what I had wanted it to be. And I, again, much in the same way, I suppose. Not now, obviously, because he's he's running the place now. But like at that time, he kind of had this. It seemed to me he had this mentality of, Well, hey, Triple H. I mean, yes, it's not my is nothing I can do about it, you know? And that's sort of where I got to it. You know, with with the NBA, yes, went this what what it's become now is not what I envisioned it to be and certainly isn't what I was laying. The groundwork for it to be didn't have the didn't have the core values that I had tried to sort of maintain, right like. And again, this was not a knock. It was just me going. This isn't for me anymore. Right, right. I I wanted to do an alternative wrestling brand that represented all those things about the way that people missed in the current product, whether it be from sort of overproduction or from, you know, a different mentality or a different style. Like, let's give them all those things because I felt like there was a good portion of the audience, particularly in the South who miss Raslan. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was it. Like, I wanted it to be burgers and fries, red, white and blue raslan. Yeah, because I love that stuff. But I was. It wasn't because it was like, I hate. Highspots, you know, and I hate these other type of I hate sports and know wasn't that it was more like looking at it from a business point of view? Hey, there's a gap in the market, I think, for this type of product. And when I had the influence to sort of to make that happen. Like you said, we we steered everything toward that vision and it and it worked how to make your partner like you again with Postmates here that that salmon sashimi fresh so fresh, you muting email now, Carol, because you were busy using chopsticks and not venting about traffic on the 405, such as soy drips on your stretches. Wet pants get sashimi on Postmates for $30 off your first three orders of $35 or more. Use code L.A. Throw terms apply. So at what point? What at what point did it change? Like at what point were you like? Because obviously, you were there for a while, you said the last year, so was the last year year and change like, OK, well, I'll take, I work here, I'll be in, I'll be a wrestler here, I'll take the paycheck. But it's not my right thing, right? Summer. So 73, the first St. Louis show was, for me, was kind of like. Once that was once that was once that business was transacted, it was never the same. What and when? And here's the thing the first thing that anyone's going to say to that and the first thing I'm sure Billy would say, Oh, well, because he wasn't champion anymore. Is that the shirt? That's the shirt. You lost the title? Yes, right? But the reality is, is that? Prior to that. I'd always been the sort of steered the ship because of the because the world title angle was obviously like in any promotion, the world title language should be the one that. Really anchors the promotion. And I had worked very hard for the last like three years to wait even before that, because even when Cody and I kind of traded the belt back and forth. You know, I was still in the thick of it. And. I'd worked very hard to make sure that every time I was involved in a world title angle, you know, it was meaningful, it meant something. And because of that, it that helped. I felt sort of that was always the driving force that was always sort of pulling the wagon. Yeah. And then obviously, when I wasn't in that picture anymore voluntarily, I would like to add like I was the one who said, I think it might be time to might be time for a switch here might be like, here's we've got here's an opportunity. Here's all these different things that are presenting themselves. St. Louis Trevor Harley Race You know, wrestling at the chase. You know, all of these opportunities present themselves and I went, Here's a moment there, but as a piece of business to be done there. It was kind of my baby. You know, and I don't I hate getting into these pissing contests. This was my idea who, you know, but that whole angle was kind of my baby like I kind of soup to nuts, that whole thing. So. It was and I also knew enough to know that it's very important, it's not just about, you know, losing the title, it's what you do, after all. So I had a whole thing in place. Here's what I can do next. You know, we go into this program with Tom. Tom can turn on me because I'm not his meal ticket anymore. I'm not about, you know, I lost the belt. Now I'm no use to him. You know, all baby face, because I knew that was coming, too. You know what I mean? I could tell that there was there was just at that point. There was so much goodwill and sentiment around kind of people knew what I had done. You know, they knew, of course, sort of knew that it was getting hard for them to continue to. Hate me if they do, because they kind of know she's kind of, you know, this is business baby cupid, this whole thing. Yeah. And I was getting a lot of that. So, you know, I think the time is right to I'll be a sympathetic character, but I lost in the middle of the ring, you know, and I gave him and I and I sort of passed the torch, did business right. First thing I came back first thing that, like all the all time, was Ricky Morton Austin Idol. You know, these guys Ric Flair like first thing on stage when they shut my eyes it. Thank you for doing business. You know what I mean? Because that's the way I like. I believe in that in in the way, right? It's like there are fundamental like rules and principles of of our industry, you know, and I stuck to them. I always stick to them, you know, and I think that you look at the if you look at the guys who sort of who who, you know, go out of their way to kind of endorse me, it's like, you know, Bret Hart, Harley, you know, Austin idol Ricky Morton, you know, Rick Dory funk like because they know that I kind of I respect the business. I love the business and I try to do it the right way. But then so when you lose the title, is it just because you no longer have your hands in the title picture? Or is it did your idea never happen the way it was supposed to happen? All of it. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. It was just, you know it, you know, like, you know, you know, in the cop shows, when you have the NYPD detectives and they're working the case and then the FBI come in and we'll take it from here. Yeah, of course, it's kind of like that. The hostage negotiator, they take it from here. Yeah, hey, it's my case, you know, like and it's like, that's sort of what it was like. And I. That's pretty much what I got told, like in no uncertain terms like. I'm I'm doing it, it's you know, let me do it, OK. And. It just, you know, you don't need me to to say what it does is irrelevant. What I think about it is irrelevant whether I liked it or not, but the audience didn't like it, right? You know, and so fast forward, we get to like the new year and they can't sell tickets. They're not they can't sell only tickets. And so it comes back to me like, what should we do? Like, you're the only person I trust. And I get put in this really awkward position because I'm like, when are you forcing me to sort of advocate for myself, which I knew? Was going to could be twisted and manipulated against me at any point. Right? Like, it's hard to do that without out of context coming across like an egomaniac without saying should be me. Yeah. Hey, well, you know what you should do, brother Ostrowski back home, which I never said, by the way, I just I was presented with the question What's different now? Why is it not working now compared to what I saw when you again, you're forcing me to? You're forcing me to give you an answer that paints me in this awful light, but I'm going. The difference is like. You had a world title angle that people were interested in. And and now you don't, you know what I mean, and I don't I don't know how else to tell you that. And then, you know, that's what led to the corona owner and then me and Cardona, and we got that going. Yeah. And again, we sort of we got we've got it going and we decided, Hey, let's stretches out. Let's, you know, let's get this going. Matt got hurt. And then again, and that was kind of me, and it all kind of fell apart again and then. Somewhere in there, huh? I get the I I get the the the the screw where, you know, suddenly it's turned into, well, you advocating to get the belt back. And I kind of went, Oh whoa, hold on. Right? This is exactly this. You know, I made a point to say when when we had the initial conversations to include Pat and make sure that it was never a one on one side, that that couldn't happen. And I kind of went, This is exactly what I was afraid of. So you know what? Like, I'm bowing out, you do you do what you want. So when you say that you got that, OK, because I heard. Billy on Busted Open recently referenced the interview that he had done previously where he talked about you politicking, but acknowledged now that that was an angle that Billy was working when he said that right? OK, so so when you when you say that it came back at you, like, oh, he was advocating for himself to be champion, do you mean it came back at you in the sense that it was part of a kind of elaborate worked shoot that Billy was doing or behind the scenes? No, this was something that he said to Mickey. Hmm. Him here. Mickey had a private conversation that he didn't realize that I was privy to where she was. Yeah, right, right. I know. Yeah. And he goes, Well, your husband is, you know, pressuring me to put the belt back on him. And you know, and and for me, that was that day I went, This is going to work. And when was when was at some time like sometime in the in the late spring, early summer? OK. And that, for me, was the sort of moment where I went this this relationship is. Not going to continue is going to have to end. And I thought I had a, you know, I signed a one year contract. So you say you did resign in January? Yeah, I signed a one year, yes, under one year contract. And what? Because you had already kind of figured out, OK, this wasn't what I wanted it to be. Initially, yeah. So what motivated you to be like? Well, yeah, you can get me for another year then. So truthfully, they made me a nice offer. Mm-Hmm. With with very favorable terms, one of which being that if when, when the when it was time for the deal to come to an end well after the one year, if I wanted to exit the deal, which would continue on a month to month basis. If not, I would give had to give 60 days notice if they wanted to and the agreement, they would have to give me 90 days notice, you know, so which is, you know, an advantage for me? Yeah, but I they put that in, not me. And I was like, Great, that's nice. I appreciate that, you know, it was very amicable, like it was as far as deals go in pro wrestling, like obviously money wise, it's not anything compared to like WWE or A.W.. But in terms of structure is one of the fairest agreements that I'd probably the fairest agreement that I'd ever signed in wrestling, you know, one year like it had bonuses factored in for for like Purdue, for the production stuff. Because, as you know, I started doing ten pounds of gold that I took on that load after Lagana left. Mm-Hmm. So I was I'd been doing all that the year prior for no extra money. Are you actually like on your computer editing? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I made the ten pounds of gold pieces for me and Cardona. Wow. You know, a few other packages and stuff. Yeah. But again, when when that came up, I just kind of said, Hey, look, I'm wearing a lot of hats here and I'm not getting any extra for it. And all all I'm really doing is just running the risk of putting heat on myself. You know, when you start wearing those hats, suddenly you get so suddenly it's like your office and you know what I mean? And you're like, I got put into a position once like, for example, uh, when when Billy's relationship with Thunder Rosa kind of went sour. Mm hmm. He asked me to call her and, you know, intervene and stuff like that. And I kind of went, Dude, this is not my. Job, you know, you have to understand what the position you're putting me in. And it was very uncomfortable, you know, and it was like little things like that just, you know, when I started to show the cracks where I was like, You have to know what position that puts me in, but as long. But you but you're basically putting me in it because you'd rather you'd rather be me than you right now. Did you end up having to? Did you take on that position or did you? Was that the one you said I could? I called her to tell her that he'd asked me to call her Got, you know? Yeah, but then set, but pretty much said, That's you know, that's what and done for me. Like, you guys can figure out or you can't. It's not up to me and I don't want any part of it, and I don't want you to feel like I'm influencing things, you know, in any way, like, you know what I mean? But it was again, one of those things where I went, Wow, he was just like, expected me to do that and was like, just wanted me to like, jump on that grenade. You know, I was just kind of like, That's not for me. That's not for me to do things in the beginning were good between you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You, Billy. Like when you're doing 10 pounds, you go and the brain and go, and you and Billy were great together. Yeah. OK. Yeah, I no, it was all good. I mean, look. This the sad truth is, and I don't want to spend the whole time talking about this. Sure, the. Basically, things got got harder when he became more hands on. Mm-Hmm. Because at first he was quite hands off, quite remote and was, you know, just sort of lending. Ideas and sort of notes here and there. Gotcha, right, gotcha. And suddenly it turned into something else. And. Try to be as nice as I can about this. Mm-Hmm. It's not very good at it, you know, and I can't I wish, I wish it, I wish it wasn't the case. But again, it's not really for me to say it's for the audience to say, and my decision to leave has come from the fact that the audience have told us, you know, the audience have left in droves. And, you know, it's just not it's not a good decision to be there anymore. It's not it's not a viable option. So you decide to leave. You say, like around spring, you're like, OK, I'm kind of done. So is the reason that you don't give notice until November, because that's the length of the contract that was that was the earliest time that I would have been able to do that. Gotcha. Gotcha. OK. So it's not like you're going and saying, I'm done. I want my release. It's saying, No, no, I'm going to stick to this contract that I release situation. It's it's it was. It was a situation where like, OK, we agreed for one year. Mm-Hmm. Uh, but whenever I wish to end the agreement, I had to give 60 days notice. The earliest possible time that I contractually could do that was November the 2nd. Right? That's the day I did it right. And it was all. I was just trying to be professional about it, right? I just typed up a letter and sent it and copied my agent on it and you know, as far as I was concerned, like that was that was that when I decided to let you know, my fans know it was not in a in a. Pipe bomb, you know, it was sort of situation, it was just, hey, I just, you know, here's what's coming up next. Like, I don't know where I'm going to be next, but I'm excited for the future. It seemed like Billy took offense, and I don't want to put words in his mouth, but he used that he was talking about scorched earth in the air. Yeah. That's how he took it. I heard that. I would imagine that he's talking about the fact that you said it was embarrassing, but you're embarrassed, right? I don't want to misquote. Yeah, you said the product was embarrassing to you. Right? Which look, I can't get around it. It's not. You know, I'm not saying all of it, but there were there was enough of it that that for me was. Didn't pass the Harley Race test. Mm hmm. Yeah, and I know that people will hear that and be like. Heidi, right? What the hell? But. What you have to understand. Harley Race wanted nothing to do with the NWA, you know, because of what it had been prior, you know, because it had it had some pretty dark days. Mm-Hmm. And then he agreed. To not only to be, you know, back associated with it, asked me to come to to Missouri to defend the title, agreed to appear on camera, talking to me about being NWA champion. And that ended up being the last interview he ever gave on camera before he passed away. That means a lot to me. And. It was because of. How we had presented pro-wrestling consistently for three years at that point or whatever it was, we had consistently presented pro wrestling in a in a serious and dignified way. You know, and I know people here dignified in pro wrestling in the saying that right? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. And I just found myself and again, this is not this isn't me trying to do scorched earth and just saying how this is what factored into my decision to give my notice. I started looking at stuff like gags, the gimp. You know, a social distancing match where the two wrestlers can't touch each other, uh uh, and, you know, on and on it went with different wacky, silly. Comedy, you know, nonsensical stuff. And I said, how would I have justified this to Harley race, like if Harley Race had been hit today? And, you know, imagine if I'd have been stood there with Harley Race, you know, and what would Harley Race say watching this or Dory Funk or Ric Flair, you know? And I thought I would if I if I stood here with with those guys right now, I'd be kind of embarrassed. You know what I mean? Because they would look at me and go. This is your this is your thing. You know, you and I have to go. No, and I didn't want to be in a position where I'm like, Oh, that's not me, you know? Right? Because if I'm in, I'm in Sam, do you know what I mean? Like, you know this, when we first talked, I was doing the ten pounds of gold series. I got paid zero for those, so I got paid no money for that right. And I know that he spent a lot of time talking about like, I gave him this money. I bet. Well, we exchanged money, you know, for services you wrestled for I. I gave you wrestling services in exchange for money. You give me money, right? You know? Right. But also for the first year that we were doing business together, my money came from third party independent promoters didn't come from you at all. It came, you know, and so we made all that content. You know, I wasn't getting paid for that. I was benefiting from it. That's why again, so I'm not, I'm not upset about it, but I just think I think it provides a better context, like I was very invested in building this thing. I mean, that's the other thing I was just going to say when you're talking about, you know, the Fox and Harley race and stuff, there's also the element of your sweat equity that you put 100 percent in. The thing that now is like, you know, you feel like gone in reverse that I felt betrayed. I felt betrayed. Sure, sure. And that you're emotional about this thing that you created. So, okay, so let me put it this way I was I was emotional about it right until I reached a a moment somewhere in the last year where I went, You know what? It's not my show. It's not mine. But that's a bummer. That's a bummer. And then that's when I went, you know, this is a business relationship, so I'm going to. Do business, and when the time comes, I will give my notice and I will no longer do business, you know? But I think right? I think that in hostile a little bit between you and Billy, we'd have some disagreements, but we'd always have disagreements. And again, I was always under the impression that that was a healthy discourse. Sure. You know, like, I don't I don't want to keep harping on this point, but it's something else I heard. Triple H mentioned in that in his interview was like which I thought was really refreshing was. He goes like, you know, I don't have to agree with everyone I'm paraphrasing, but I don't have to agree with everybody, you know, and I don't want everyone to agree with me, right? Like sometimes some conflict being polarizing and having some, it can be good because you want that like healthy exchange of ideas, but it requires the fundamental thing is respect. You know, it requires a respect from the owner or, you know, executive to the talent and vice versa. And up until a point, I felt like we had that dynamic right where it was kind of like. Hey, this is your baby, you're the one who's putting the money into it. You've got to be happy with what's going out. But it's my. It's my living. Let's be honest, here is not his living, it's is a hobby for him, you know, and I'll refrain from saying vanity project, it's a but it's a it's not his sole source of revenue. Is income, right? Yeah, it's for him. It's a side hustle at best. It's not for me. For me, it's my, you know, being a I'm in the professional wrestling business first. Yes, I have other businesses too. But the professional wrestling business is my, you know, that's my bread and butter. That's my baby and my wife's. So when I'm getting to a point where I'm being like. Kind of dismissed and disregarded. Right, like just because I didn't like every single one of the, you know, these wacky things that you did. I kind of went, well, is this really about business, you know, or is this about you? You know, and. More and more over the course of the last year, I kind of went. This is a show for one person I see. You know, and again, and that's an asset like I really like it's it's a show for one person and that's fine if that's what he wants it to be. Just I'm not going to be part of it, right? Because you're another person. OK, so for some clarity, first of all. The one thing that I think some people are still wondering about, and probably even more so now because we know the last time there was tension between you and the NWA and Billy Corgan. It was an angle. Yeah, right? It was. It worked, shoot or whatever. I think he. I mean, look, you know, you beating around the bush? Yeah. But let's call a spade a spade. He worked himself into a shoe. Again, like. I'm trying to be nice here and not, you know. Yeah, say what was very obvious and, you know, for anyone who's paying attention. But his lack of experience and his naivete. You can. I forget who it was, I talked to about this, but what that first time when it was, you know, ostensibly an angle. When some when people reached out to me, I said yes, but I'm concerned that he's working himself into a shoot, right, right. And and that happens in wrestling, right? But maybe there are these underlying feelings that you have to decide to make him into an angle. It does when you're inexperienced. Right? You know, right now it does. When you're it does when you're when you've been, when you've you've let this get too personal. Right? And like I said, that's that's where I got to, where it's like. I've made mistakes in the past and and, you know, had failed relationships in the past with people because I let it get personal, which when I shouldn't have. Right? That's the experience. Yeah, that's how you get that maturity, right? Yes, that skin thickening, you know, and I've been in this business since I was 17 years old. I'm pretty thick skin at this point, right? Like people have said the worst s**t about me, you can think of at some point or other. And I'm, you know, if double target because I married into the business too. Right? So it's like you get it from all. You get it from all sides. Yeah, yeah. Like, I've I'm pretty conditioned at this point and I could see it coming. That's the, you know, that's the whole thing about this is just so silly is it's like no one. I hate the fact that it paints me in this light of like complaining or, you know, having problems backstage or, you know, because anyone who's anyone who's been involved in the NWA, anyone knows that nobody put more sweat equity into that brand than me. Yeah, yeah. And I don't feel like I'm being I don't feel like I'm overstating that. You know, but. There comes a time where you just have to go. All right, it's time to move on. It's like the old if this had been the territories back in the day. Move on to another town, it would have just, you know, it would have just been, Hey, let's finish up, you know, give my notice and let's finish up. So we're saying, right, this that's happening right now that we're this is not a work. Nope, there's nothing remotely. I hope not. Right. As far as you know, you're part of this is not a work, OK? And the other question that's been raised is Billy saying that you are working in angle, that there is some angle that he is not aware of that, whether it's an angle to get out of your contract early, whether you have something else lined up. This this was I mean, this was on busted open, he said, that you're working an angle and that it's really did he really say he said you were obviously working an angle. Wow. I guess he did. I, I'm not sure. Why would need to get out of my contract early? Well, because you got some place to go if you're working an angle? Well, that's that would seem that would seem, you know, considering how patient I'd been up to this point. Yeah. You don't think I think I can. I can hold on another few weeks, but that's not not me. None of this. None of this is real, by the way. I don't know what to say to that again. Just just speaks to. You know, his level of understanding. Do you? So you're not working at angle that I'm aware of, right? You're not working angle, OK? See, the thing is now is that like if if something were to happen where I was to suddenly show up somewhere, suddenly it's like I was working an angle. I knew he was lying to me the whole time. I knew he walks into my studio, he's lying to me. Right. But as of as of today, you're not working an angle. Were you surprised that you got suspended from the NWA after you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean, OK, I know that's pretty much what is OK, right? Like, it was like one of the media, one of the wrestling media guys like, can you comment on being suspended on Earth? But I just gave my notice like, I suspended, OK. It's kind of like to me. I just likened it to be like, you know, when you're when you're in, when you're in like high school or Grey's, who was like, you know, I broke up with him. No, he broke out. You know, I share that with him. Sure, sure. And do you at all regret now? Yes. And it's only been everything for like three days and you're like, What the hell has happened? Do you regret? Publicly saying that you found the product embarrassing in your Instagram video, because I think that that is the sort of I'm sure that's the part that I'm sure that's the yeah, I'm so that's I'm sure that's the trigger, the thing that's triggering him. Did you do that to trigger him? No, no, no, I. I the truth is, I. Wanted. I understood, and again, there's no easy way to say this without coming across like an egomaniac, but I understood that. A large portion of the NWA, a core audience. Evolved from being my core audience, because the NWA at first was just, you know, I was the only product, it was myself and you and a storm. Yeah, and shoot. Yeah, yeah. So and I. The success of that sort of approach and the effort that I put in because to your point, it's not easy. To wear a suit and like. Carry yourself in a certain way and present yourself in a certain way when you know you're about to go work in a rec center in front of like 100 people. Sure, that takes a different level of. Like courage, right to you know, to be like, I'm the I'm the man. So method method acting on like level of level, like you, I think there were times where I didn't feel like a complete buffoon, you know, thinking like. This is 100 100 million miles away from WrestleMania, right? But but I also understood the whole point of the whole point of the business, and again, this is like an old school thing that was driven into me by guys like Harley and Dori and other people. It starts in here. If you believe it, they believe it, right? And I. Built my whole sort of, you know, my career wasn't doing s**t. I had to sort of bootstrap that whole thing. We talked about that when I came in that first time. Yeah, like I had a run in TNA. But by the time I left, TNA like TNA had a stink. You know what I mean? So it wasn't like you would think that coming off of a show that was doing like two million viewers on Spike TV on prime time, you know that, you know, I've got to get an opportunity somewhere. And it was like TNA, you know, and I was left like, Wait, what? You know, like, I was left holding the bag right and I and I. And so I had to start from scratch. But I went, you know, if I'm going to do it. If I'm if I'm going to. Commit to this thing, I'm going to commit, it takes commitment. So, yeah, when I see guys stroll into, you know, NWA Power and, you know, march up to catering and f**king stuff their face and make another make another box to go like errand. And guys like me and Trevor and stuff aren't getting any food, you know? Yeah. Like do I start to get a bit of a chip on my shoulder because I got you? You guys have no clue what it took to get us to this point. Yeah, yeah, I do. And by the same token. When I know what has resonated with the audience because I'm the one pounding the pavement and I'm the one who is meeting these people, you know, I'm the one going to stuff things like Wrestle Kate, which will be out, by the way. Mick, you know, will be at Wrestle Kate. Excellent. You can pre-order now a simple text, but places like that, Winston-Salem, you know, a historic wrestling town and getting grown men come up to me and shaking my hands with tears in their eyes, going like you, you. You brought back wrestling. I love like and I used to watch this with my grandpa. And it just brings back all these memories of my grandpa and it makes me so happy and he would love this. And you know, oh my god, I wish he was around to see this today. That means something to me. And so when I saw it get, you know, kind of betrayed, yeah, I felt betrayed too. And the time to go, I appreciate you allowing me to just question and question and question you on this because I'm sure it's the last thing you want to do is spend all this time talking. But to me, I mean, it's just such a fascinating story runs down and I get that people find this kind of thing fascinating, right? There's a lot of drama. There's a lot of intrigue, and it's you specifically. I mean, it's hard to think of a singular. Wrestler that embodied a brand, right, more in the beginning, so the very dramatic exit story, yeah, is an unfortunately, I think maybe that's I think that's the irony of this is that that's probably part of the reason why he as well, you know, because I'm sure that he feels betrayed on his side, too, because sure, he he believes in the product he's putting out now, you know, like that's let's let's let's accept that. Like, of course, that's why he believes in the product he's putting out now. Mm-Hmm. And I don't. And you know, and so I'm sure for him, it's a difficult pill to swallow because in his mind, I'm sure he's thinking. I invested all this time, and yeah, there's a hurt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And but it's like, yeah, because, you know, but that's the business part of it. This this isn't good for my business anymore. Yeah. So I'm going to move on and see if I can do business some other way. When you look at the at the wrestling landscape in 2022 going into 2023, which is I mean, I've been watching wrestling my entire own because it is bonkers is the word. I mean, talk about unpredictable, talk about it being a, you know, how many how many days between us recording this and going out like two three? That's who knows what could have happened like this. Half of this conversation could be totally irrelevant and totally lack context within three days. Yeah, if the rush rush to get it off, everything we do because by the time there's going to be. Can you believe that so-and-so stabbed someone in the dressing room? But yeah, yeah. How did you guys not bring that up? Yeah, right. Why are you talking about this? Everyone is talking about it. Where do you have you thought about? I mean, you must have thought about that, right? Because as somebody that you are the NWA, you're the NWA Worlds champion, this is what you do. This is your place in professional wrestling. When you start thinking and you must have started this process over a year ago, that's not my place anymore. Yeah, but that was my place. And that's the way wrestling works, its way. It's supposed to work, right? You're not. It's not a forever thing. It's this is what works now. Yeah, we're moving on 100 percent. Is there a space that you see Nick Aldis it fitting? I just want it to be on television? Yeah. You know? Yeah, I. Wrestling is very subjective, yeah, and. There are all kinds of wrestlers, and there are all kinds of styles, there's a very there's a certain style that's very popular. You know, there's usually a style of the time. But ultimately. Wrestling really thrives when there's a range of characters in a range of styles. Styles make fights, you know, that kind of thing. And I feel like I've. Honed my craft right of what I do. Well enough to be able to do it with anyone anywhere. Hmm. Period. You know? Right. Like I've put in my 10000 hours. Yeah, I've been in the business like over 15 years now and I've and I've wrestled all over the world. I've wrestled a who's who. And I've proven that I can sell tickets to a certain extent. I, you know, because. Without a platform, how much can you really do? Right? Sure. But. Considering what we started with. Obviously, we don't take all I don't. I never use all in as a as a as an example, because that would be that would be, you know, dishonest to say eleven thousand people. I didn't sell those tickets, right? The events, all those tickets, I we we didn't. We coordinate without question, I felt did end up being the. Focal point of that show that was the story was the match that had the story, yeah. So and I'm very grateful to the people that made that happen. And I'm but I also went I held up my end of the deal. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, again, like so but I will go ahead and say that six weeks later, we sold out Nashville Fairgrounds and set a box office record for wrestling there. And that covers quite a lot of ground when you consider who's in there. Yeah. You know, we it was six weeks later we returned for the rematch and sold out, you know, and then. Like the first Ring of Honor Show, after all, the elite guys left bucks, Cody Hangman, you know, all these guys left and sue, all those guys left. The person they trusted to headline the next show, they did centerstage me defending the title. Mm-Hmm. And it sold out. Mm-Hmm. You know, the first Crockett Cup win there might go a couple of thousand people, right? Like. The right before the pandemic, we were getting ready to do the turn around, do the rematch for that in Atlanta, the new NBA arena, and we were two thirds of the way to selling that place out. You know, so. And wrestling at the chase? Yeah. Facilitated the return of that. Book the whole angle. And that's all about, you know, and then Mickey turns around and runs Empower, the forum sells that out like we know what we're doing. Yeah, I don't know any other way to say right, like, I figured it out. We know what we're doing, you know? And I just go. God, I wish I had a bit more resources. Right? Can you imagine? I wish you imagined. I wish I had the chance to draw money with. Someone big, big, a bigger name than me who's who's somebody you'd love to draw from God. Give take your pick. I mean, there's a lot and that's kind of the beauty of where you've been the last several years. We haven't seen in Cardiff. Yeah, I was in Cardiff doing it. We did a. It was like a little fan fest thing. That was that the day before the big stadium show clash of the castle. Yes. And I was there with Bret and Mickey and I, Bret, the hitman Hart. Who else was on the. That's true. That's true. And you know, I remember like just, you know it, it never it's never going to not hurt to be that close to then be like, Well, yes, you know, there it goes like. And then watching the show and going, Man, I looked at the pretty awesome. Yeah, that video that looked on. And look, I'd be lying if I didn't see their guy. You don't think that me and Drew McIntyre like. The right, but the right promotional build in the UK like. England versus Scotland, you know? Mm-Hmm. People kind of care about that. Yeah, right. Like you don't think that with the right. You know, you don't think that if the pieces were there, we could make that happen. Well, let's talk about let's talk about code. That's one example. Of course, of course. I mean, and that's what I was saying, like, there's so many examples because we haven't seen any of them. I always people always bring up Gunther, you know? Oh, and he was and he was very cool. Like when we when when we started anyway, power like, I remember him going out of his way to publicly go, Wow, NBA power is a great show. And then when I met him like somewhere, one of the know shows somewhere like, you know, he was like, I love Enderby, power, my god, you know? And that was just part of me going like. So you see you see a match like Gunther versus Seamus at that show, whereas how could you not? Whereas I mean, that's what I find. One of the things I find so fascinating is that most of us go like, Oh my God, the torture that those men went through, the damage that they put themselves through. I mean, that was a knockdown drag out fight. You look at that with it. Yeah, it's worth it. Yeah, yeah, it was. I mean, they it was Shakespeare. They didn't. They didn't hurt each other. You know, like like that was that was that was the that was a perfect example of the art. Right? Like, it's not about hurting each other. They went home, but that right, right? They didn't take liberties with each other. They didn't. They didn't get dangerous. They they didn't. They left with a bunch of wealth. Yeah, they did the right. They did, but they didn't. They didn't put. They didn't put their careers at risk, right? Like not not no more than anyone does on any given night that we go out and perform. Sure, sure. Let me state that. But they. Tore it up, and they did it in a way that was like that would have been an NBA title match anywhere in the world, you know, that could have been. But when I watched that went, that could have been that, you know, back in the day. That's, you know, I felt the same thing when Edge and Randy Orton had their match during the pandemic, they had the greatest wrestling match. Yeah. Oh yeah, I loved it. The greatest wrestling match ever. I text Adam about that, and he was, you know, he he totally gushed about it as far as like that was that was what I was going for. You know, that sort of NWA style kind of love letter to pro wrestling? Exactly. Yeah, yeah, that's how I felt about my match with Cody. They were a love letter to the, you know. Jack Briscoe and Dory Funk or, you know, Harley Race and Ric Flair and flair and Dusty. You know, Bret and Shawn. Yeah, like the the pinnacle of this artform being executed to the highest level, which is great too, because all those guys that you just mentioned, Cody Edge, Seamus Drew, like, they all eat sleep, breathe this stuff like they did like wrestling is everything to all of those people that you just mentioned. With Cody, right, you get to see him in a very interesting point because you worked that show with him, and that was obviously the show that that turned into was the proof of concept for A.W. Right? Two parter here. I'm I'm I'm sure you couldn't have been surprised to go like, oh yeah, this is going to work like a launching with Cody there and everything. This is going to work. Were you surprised? A couple of years in? When Cody ends up much like honestly, much like you're doing with the NWA, right, leaving that thing that he was such a part of creating. And realizing it's my time to bow out, yeah, I'm going to head over to WWE. Yes and no. Mm hmm. Do you get it more now? Yeah, yeah. But I don't want to speak to that to suggest that there was some. Not that you have any idea. No, no, no. That's not what I'm know, right? Yeah. I don't want it. I'm more I more meant the similarity between where you guys started. I have no idea where this thing ended. You know, who knows the way I looked at it was. I feel like Cody looked at it the sort the same way that I'm looking at my situation now on a bigger scale, much more money. But he when? You know, he remembered his training from his father, who remembered his event. Time to move on. Time to time to, you know, pack up and move on to another territory. Yeah, that's the way, you know, I think that because there's never one thing, right? Like this situation is not is ever one thing. It's it's a whole host of things that eventually create a situation where you go. I think it's just time to move on. Your 10000 hours tells you. Yeah. Like, you can read the tea leaves now, right? And go your gut and your instinct for the business, which is scary when, particularly when. And again, this, you know, I'm only I'm only speaking to my experience. I'm not speaking to two to Cody's relationship with Tony Khan. But if your instinct. Is much more much stronger than the other person's right, like if you kind of know from being around it long enough, you kind of know, OK, I can see where this is heading, like because it's not necessarily about not always, just about business. Sometimes it's about emerging dynamics between people, you know, and. Like, that's certainly a factor in my situation, like new personalities have been introduced into the equation and they change the, you know, they change the chemistry, right? Yeah. Like people, you know, people get in his ear and they say this and that. And next thing, you know, he's communicating less and you're communicating less and now you're mistrusting this person and that person over there is sticking their nose in or you think that they are. And so now you start behaving differently around them and he feels that you're being, you know, different with him. And suddenly and it all comes down to pride and a lack of communication. It's always the same stuff. It's always pride and lack of communication. Yeah, right. Yeah. And eventually somebody has to go. All right. Time to go out. Yeah, I'm out. I guess I. I think I thought that what Cody pulled off was one of the most impressive, incredible feats, incredible, you know, coming back as the American nightmare when that. I mean, dude, when Nolan was a proof of concept for A.W. But. Cody in A.W. was a proof of concept for Cody and WWE. Yeah, that's my theory. I think that's 100 percent right. I mean, I can't tell you like I think he always had one eye on being back there and going, but going, OK, if you need me to go and show you what this is, all go. If I can show you, I'm going to help start a national promotion where you can see that I can head like national, but not that I'm comparing the same, but the same kind of thing like I, you know, nobody has. Nobody has presented to me on a piece of paper like who I am now, like the look, the you know, the ring attire, the entrance music, the style of the entrance, the whole thing with me, the whole package, it's it's I've crafted it over, you know, over the last couple of years, same way that he did. And you know, in many ways, it's the same thing. It's like was I fully invested in the NWA, you know, trying to build the NWA into being a a nationwide, you know, a national promotion like, of course I was I wouldn't have put the amount of time in. I did if I wasn't. But at the same time, I was also using it as a platform to to present my product to the marketplace through the shop window. Sure. We were talking about worked shoots and the dangers of work shoots and all of that earlier. Terrible idea. And also while generally speaking, but every now and then they get pulled off. OK. What do you think? Of do they, though? Well, I would look. Here's my question. I'm sorry and I won't cut you off. No, please my. The. The worked shoot just in and of itself is an oxymoron. Mm-Hmm. Because it's all supposed to be issue. So you're saying that a workshop, everything is supposed to. Everything is yes, right? Everything is supposed to convince people to suspend their disbelief. Yeah, right. It's all angles should be realistic. Well, I guess I guess it's taking into account. The hardcore wrestling fans will understand that people understood or at least, you know, for the most part, think they understand. The inner workings of the business and how the business works, but again, Mike. But my question is that is. Does. Does it work for that angle, but does it work for the whole business? Does it work for the whole show? Because when? When? Because let's say, Oh, that's average. That's all anyone's talking about. OK, that might be a problem. Yeah, there's a lot of angles on this. Yeah, right? Yeah. And and that better be leading to something this money. Otherwise, it's what's the point of it, which is usually my that's usually my hang up with the hope, with the whole concept. What's it leading to, right? Is the payoff big enough and worth it for the potential damage? Somebody who I think one could argue has perfected that art, which is a rare thing, is MJF. Yes. What do you think of MJF? He's a fantastic talent. Yeah, yeah. I mean, how could you not write anyone who knows? You know, I feel like anyone who knows what they're talking about knows, right? Like, you have a level of sort of jealousy and bitterness, too to deny that you're right off the chart, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do think I do think that you do have to be careful with characters like that. Because it does become it can become problematic to not problematic, that's not the right word. It can become difficult. To place them in a way that that's beneficial for everyone. Sure, like. It's NWR syndrome and a little bit like the NWA was red hot and did a lot and was very important to the WWE. But at the same time, you're kind of like you're on this very fast downhill slope, like skiing, you know, and suddenly it's like, This is great. I'm going so fast and this is incredible and the adrenaline is off the charts. Well, I was if I want to stop, you know, like, how do I, how do I change direction? Like, how do I, you know, how do I get anyone else in this? It's not impossible, but it is difficult right now. It's it's difficult to do. Well, yes, you can't sacrifice, you know, babyface. You can't sacrifice your protagonists right to keep feeding this beast without running the potential of harming them. Because now they go, Well, wait, he's he's gets to say and do whatever he wants. And, you know, he totally eviscerate me, you know, and I. But I'm limited in what I can say in return, you know? Right? Yeah, it's it's one of those things. It's almost like the Wardlow situation, right, where dynamic in wrestling is supposed to be like, I loved Warren, Anderson said about like. Baby faces so much, he'll sell tickets, right? Yes, so like. We were talking in the car about a baby faced territory in a heel territory, right, and how. When? I went when I was sort of lending my input in the NWA. He was unaware of what that meant. And I kind of had to explain. So a baby face territory would be, you know, the BWF in the in the heyday, well, WWF with Brunei. Mm-Hmm. He was the draw. Everybody loved him. He sold out the garden, you know, however many times. So now your objective is OK. I have to just I have to maintain that right. Because he's the draw, so people are paying to see Bruno and they love him. OK, so we've got to get we've got to bring in some heels. You to hit him up. You've got to have him beat credible guys on their way to Bruno and promise I'm going to beat Bruno. And, you know, get in Bruno's face and say, I'm going to I'm going to be the one to end this Bruno streak. I'm going to be the one to, you know, dethrone him, blah blah blah and build an empire. I want to see Bruno get rid of this guy, and he would write a heel territory is if, if if the draw being like Jim Crockett Promotions Flair is the draw. Flair's the guy who sells most tickets. He's a bad guy. He's an antagonist. So now people are kind of going, I hate this guy because he's so good things, he's better me, but gives entertaining to watch. That's the perfect, right? Because they because what Flair did was he let people beat the s**t out of him. Right? Yeah. Ricky Steamboat tears off all these clothes are Ricky Morton. Tears off all these clothes, you know, and beats his a*s all over the studio, you know and humiliates Rick and embarrassing because that's what people are paying to see. I want to see someone knock this guy down a peg or two where it becomes. Where it can get difficult is if people like I want to see Ric Flair win. Right, right now, because now the protagonist, now you're basically going, Hey, we need you to go ahead and be a sacrificial lamb here. It's almost what I feel like has happened with the, uh, Jake Paul boxing thing where I feel like you run the risk of diminished returns when you realize he's going to win. Right, because you're paying to see him lose, right, you're paying to go like there's no way he can be that MMR fighter, there's no way he can be that athlete. And then once this sort of collective realization is always actually pretty good at boxing, yeah, he's probably going to win, right? That's not really what I'm here to say. Yeah. And look, it's obviously worked so far. It's been amazing, worked incredibly well, right? And and by the way, and I'm sure and this is OK, I say the only difference to that is that in that situation, no one is, you know, well, really, the fundamental issue makes it different is that one individual, it's you know what I mean? Yeah, the. He only has to be interested in the Jake Paul business, right? The if, but if Jake Paul was under contract to a one promotion, you know who had who also was trying to establish and build value in a whole host of. Sure, that would be a different story. Sure, totally. You know, wrestling is different in that. And you know, that's why a lot of people think they can book, you know? Yeah, wrestling booking is not easy because it's it's everybody like all the spinning plates, you know, you go, Oh, this one over here is about to fall. I'll keep this one going over here. And you know, that's basically, you know, wrestling booking, in a nutshell. So you're you're you're looking in at first of all, what did you think of the Roman Reigns Logan Paul match? Did you see it? Have you seen it? Incredible. I mean, you can't. You can't take anything away from it. What an incredible, I mean, wild, right? Yeah, it's remarkable. It's a testament. It's a testament to him, and it's a testament to it. Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm. You know how they've been able to. Trainer and coach that yeah, yeah, and execute. Yeah, that's not easy. You're talking about seeing Walt, Guenther and Seamus and going like, Yeah, I could. I could. I could be in there. I would love to. Love, love, love, chance. I would love the opportunity. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, no, no. I'm sorry. But what do you think when you see something? I feel like one of the stories of the year has been right under everyone's nose. Sami Zayn just completely redefining how to succeed at the highest levels to the point that the unthinkable happens in Jim Cornette is over here going like, You know what? Sami Zayn is the greatest thing on television. What do you think? What do you think of Sami Zayn? He's a world class performer. Yeah, like again. There's no one else is there to say the world class performer like wrestling is about taking accentuating your strengths. I've I've talked in a couple of interviews recently about how like I just I just wrestled up in Calgary, you know, for for dungeon wrestling, which is kind of the new incarnation of stampede wrestling, right? Awesome for Bret and Bret. Buff and Bret booked me to wrestle the match and I and I'm wrestling Harry Smith and then Bret says, I want you to win the title. I mean, I can't, you know, it's the Stu Hart title. It's got like, you know, it's the Stu Hart Heritage Show. I was. I was so flattered and thrilled by that. And I want to, you know, and now and now, like, I've taken it on as a sort of personal challenge, like, I want to see if I can help get that thing going up there for them because it's the Victoria Pavilion in Calgary, you know, like. And we had a pretty good house and like Harry and I had great heat, like we had him rocking at the end and it was like and I came back and it's like, Bret, stand there. And that was awesome. I was so good, you know, and I'm going, I want to. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent, but. The. The thing with with the business is like, you're always looking at it. I mean, for me, anyway, I'm always looking at it in that sense of like. Where can I take this? You know? Yeah. What did you ask me? I can't remember what Sami Zayn? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So but one of the reasons why that went so well, the thing in Calgary was because it was like for the first time in ages, I got to be a full on heel. Right. I got to be because I've been kind of a babyface before in the NBA because, like I said, it just evolved to a point where it was kind of like people were like. We like you because we know you helped kind of, you know. Yeah, there's an appreciation. Yeah, yeah. And so I and so I end up being sort of and it's not my kids think this is what this is what I was getting to. I know what my strengths are. You know what I mean? I know what my I know I lend myself best to island myself best to being an antagonist. Like, to me, I always I've always tried to be the ultimate antagonist. Like, I'm aware of the fact that when no one being British in America is always going to, for the most part on television, immediately going to put me in a certain vibe with a lot of the audience, especially casual audience. So it was this British guy, you know, like like, I want someone to slap his face. Mm-Hmm. Right. Of course you got the accent. OK, cool. Like, how do we make money with that right? Instead of, Oh, I saw myself as this other thing. No, it doesn't matter what. You know what I mean? I didn't I? I tried. Not first. First of all, I tried not to be like that when you were, you know, when I was a kid. Yeah, did I envision myself being that, you know, being the babyface and winning the title? Of course I did. But in the long run, you know, even at even early on, you know, around 2000 was when I really started to sort of formulate this idea like, I think I want to do this. Mm-Hmm. And a lot of that was watching Rock and Triple H. Yeah, but I was. But there was because it was part of me. It was like, you know, I jumped out of my seat when Rock won the title, but at the same time before I was kind of like, kind of cool like this. I just kind of cool, you know, like, yeah, you know, cause I know. And then as I, you know, started to get into the business, my instinct was always toward being that guy in the game. You know, being the heel, being the yeah, being the guy manipulating people's emotions and, you know, kind of driving the car. And I think a lot of that just you got to have self-awareness. You've got to know who you are and how people see you. Because. What we're not saying, Judge, a book by its cover, but people do. Yeah, sure. So with Sami Zayn. People see him in a certain way because of how he looks and because of how he talks and how he presents himself, people see him in a certain way and he's totally embraced it and embellished it to a point where now it's this slightly compelling character. Yeah. The same way, like Roman has now taken who he is instead of trying to be like, Happy guy, you know? Yeah, I'm the, you know, he's he's like, Well, f**k all you, I'm the man, you know? And everyone's like, Yeah, yeah. There's two things that I love about the Roman Reigns character transformation. Number one is when fans boo him, he is not. He acknowledges that he's getting booed and he shows his face to be frustrated. Imagine that. Why would you, Boomi? Right? Why? He doesn't have to pretend like that's no problem. It's OK. The other thing is, and this is a, I think, something that popped up with John Cena too, is that. He he wins every man, right? A lot. And when you win every match and you continue to show up with humility, at some point the audience goes, We see what you're doing, you're winning every match. Will you please just tell me that you're aware that you're winning all the time, right? And so when Roman comes back and he goes, there is nobody in this industry that's playing on my level. It's like, we've been waiting. Yes, thank you for thank you for saying what is what is the what is the main quality that that a successful character or angle has in wrestling is that people live vicariously through it? Sure. And what is the one thing that most people in life don't get to do is give zero f**ks? You know what I mean? Everybody wants to. Everybody wants to be in a position where they just don't give a f**k. Yeah, right? So Stone Cold, Steve Austin, The Rock, Shawn Michaels, like, you know what I mean, different people, different point. You could look at the transition from baby face Shawn Michaels to the Shawn Michaels. Same thing. I have just I've given up caring what you think. Yeah, suddenly everyone went, Oh, that's cool. Yeah, yeah. You can go to like literally Survivor Series 96 when the garden is turning on him and he turns back on them and suddenly you go, Oh, I do like him now, right? You know, really reacting right? That's that's that's how I'd be. Screw that guy, right? Yeah. You want to live vicariously through that. So there's a. And that's that's not the only reliable, you know, quality, but it's certainly it's certainly an alpha one. You know, and I again call me crazy, but I think the wrestling business tends to work best when it's built around alpha males. You know what I mean? Have you ever have you thought about that like? I mean, I'm sure you'd be a fool if you were in this industry and haven't said, Man, I'd love to tell a story with Roman Reigns right now, right? Sign me up, right? Yeah, yeah. Dumb question. Yeah. What about this? OK. And this is maybe the last hypothetical I throw at you because it's just something that popped in my mind last night. You said you wanted to wrestle on TV? Hmm. What if the what if it were presented to you? We'd like you to come to next? Not. Join our developmental system, become the next. Love it. Yeah, oh yeah, I think it'd be the idea of how it does. It's not about the it's not about the platform. Well, it is, but it's about the opportunity. I mean, yeah, because the Annex D is still an incredible platform. Yeah. Right, right. What I'm saying is it's about. Just having a stage, it's just about having a platform to ply my trade. And can you imagine, can you? Can you imagine? Somebody who was that immature kid who thought he knew at all, who had to go through everything that you had to go through and scratch and claw for 15 years to finally acquire the knowledge that you've acquired. Going back into this land full of 20 somethings that don't want to listen to, I mean, story story stories, they don't need to listen to me. No, no, no. I mean, this is Shawn Michaels, which is not hard to do. Yeah, but I mean, character wise. Oh, that's more like it. Like the story that we're telling. Of course, you're not going in there to run that. I mean, Eric, think about this. How about how about this one? Try this one of us. I see. You know, I I've done a lot with Scott Steiner. You know, so the idea that like now it's sort of. You know, evolves to, you know, his nephew, that's kind of the next general interesting dynamic because a lot of a lot of variables you could play with their, you know, like I wouldn't mind jumping on a pre-show and hyping up Nick Aldis vs. Brock Breaker, I'm not going to lie to you. I wouldn't mind that either. What is your favorite thing when you look back at your time in the NWA? What's your favorite thing? Your favorite match, your favorite angle? What is the thing that you look back on and you go? That was awesome. Well, it's pretty hard to look beyond the anger with Cody. Yeah, I mean. The lightning in a bottle situation, especially especially because you nailed it, right, right? I feel like that was one of those angles that lake and we had no, there was no, you know, multi multi-million dollar company marketing team and a creative team and a promotional machine sort of, you know, carefully crafting all this was two guys using our instincts like, man, what about this? Yeah. All right. What about this? All right. This will be money as bill. OK, cool. We know. We know what the business is at the end. As easy. The work he's done before, the bell rings right, and it was done to such a level that we got. It's one of those, you know, unicorns or moments in wrestling where we had like the whole place popped and standing before we even touched like, that's that's to me is like a unicorn kind of moment there. Like, they can't manufacture that. You can't. You can't plan for it. You can't expect it. You have you can hope for it. And I think we've talked about it. He and I, we both felt like we I think we might get this. I think this might happen, but neither one of us spoke it. You know, for fear of of, you know, of tempting fate, right? But we both afterwards. We both kind of went we both knew that was coming. We kind of knew we had them right. There's no greater feeling in wrestling than when you go. We had him. We got him. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's the point. That's the business you're in. Yeah. Like, this is the story. This is the story that we're telling. We got him and everybody is like, This is the story we're hearing. This is the story we're responding to. Yeah, yeah. Like, the work is done before the bell. Yeah. You know, comes now comes the fun part. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Now what we have like, it's so much easier if you can get it done before the bell, because now there's less pressure on you to execute right now or you've got to do now. Now all you have to do is not f**k it up. You know what I mean, as opposed to going out cold. And now you've got a go from, you know, from A to B to C to D and grab them along the way. And then hopefully by the end of that work, you know, they're into it. But if if if you can start at like G, you know or end, yeah, like whatever is in the middle, you can stop there and they're already halfway home with you. It's like, all right now, all we have to do is just guide this sucker into the dark, you know? Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I feel like I merged two analogies that guide denying a plane. But 2.4 to this, you know, it's it's water, it's a water plane. It's one of those like, you know, with the skis on the bottom. Yeah. And it's also I feel like a moment where it's like you as an individual could say, like, yeah, I did that because like, that's very validating for me. You leave today with a stink ice cold, ice cold. You walk into all in and Cody is white hot. Yeah, Cody in the box and Kenny are white hot. They are. Yeah, I mean, no denying that. And then you go, I'm going to step up and I'm going to be the one. The the the the real pressure of that situation was on me right to. Ascend to Cody's level because you have to in terms of perception, you have to stand in the ring and be perceived as two equals. They couldn't walk into that. We couldn't walk into that match. Even though everybody in the building wanted to see that moment, they knew who wouldn't it be amazing to see Cody Rhodes beat this guy and win the ten pounds of gold for his father? But but they believe I hadn't, but if I had just walked in like some schlub and they go, Well, OK? It would have been a coronation, not rocky. It wouldn't have been a contest of like, I don't know what's going to happen here, right? You know? Yeah, because Aldis is the NWA, he is the NWA champion. He's not. And we'd done like the weigh ins where, you know, look, I'm afraid to say I knew what that was going to be. Cody was the one who wanted to do a do. Wayans and I thought was a good idea. It helps, you know, it helped that big fight feel and everything. But in the end, there was part of me is like he was opposed down, you know, because he had like, he'd worked hard. He's like he'd he'd dropped to drop some weight, you know? You know, I could, you know, and I was like, All right, I'll see you there. And I did the same thing, you know, because it was, we have that thing. Where it's like we are, we we are very, you know, we're not buddies, we're not close friends, but we're friendly and I respect him, you know, huge amount. And I'd like to think he respects me. But we embrace that little bit of like competitiveness with each other. You know what I mean, like we brought out the best in each other like. Funny story that day when we did the weigh in right the day before. A guy in Chicago who was like a luxury car dealer had contacted me and said, Hey, I love what you're doing, but I'm a huge fan. I can't wait to see this match for you and Cody and other guys. Hey, look. I have a luxury car dealership. I'd be happy to lend you whatever you want for the weekend. He's like. And I said, Well, cool, I've got like a couple of my friends coming like Sam came to be part of the entourage and like Shannon Moore and my buddies and. He's like, cool, I'll send a couple of cars that we send a Bentley and a G wagon. So I'm cruising around in a Bentley all weekend and and my friends are cruising around in the G-Wagon. So we rocked up to the to the hotel to do the weigh in and stuff, but Daivari was in the car with me. One of my best friends used to be my roommate. So we were in the Bentley. But I've been signing at Starrcast, and then I had to rush back and get, you know, get get ready for this and for the way in and whatnot and starving on the way to think there's a Wendy's. So we pull the Bentley all around the Wendy's. And because I knew. And again, this is like, I'm not betraying Cody's trust. I say, because I, you know, he never said this, but I always got the sense that, like, I felt like he wanted this to be a little bit of a pose down. Like, I want to show how ripped I got and, you know, whatever. And I dropped about 10 pounds as well. Wow. So I'd kind of got in pretty good shape as well. So I when I pulled it, I grabbed a cheeseburger at the drive thru and rocked up in the Bentley and then walked in like before the way, just just, you know, just just chowing down on this yet triple cheeseburger. I thought they are gone. Yeah, because he knew I was there, but it was like, That's what I mean. We just we did little things like that to sort of not to like, mess with each other in a nefarious, like horrible way, but just in that life, working everybody. You know, these are. I got it. You know, I love it like and I know that he had texts like Dave. And, you know, my friend, a couple of our mutual friends been like, Have you seen kind of shapes you and you know, just like, you know, stuff like that, you know? But that's yeah, I've only had that with one guy, really, you know what I mean? Yeah, that sort of level of like and I'm sure it's a rare thing. High level execution and and the connection, right? Like that it got with the audience. And, you know, because. And it wasn't a one off because we proved that when we turned around in six weeks time and sold out again. And, you know, we're obviously not there when we went to sold out 10000, but we still we we probably could have done that building once over again. Yeah. And. That's, you know, we had him on that one, too, and we did that actually the second match as much as for me was, I thought was way better than the the match in Chicago. But to to that point, the match in Chicago only needed to be. A certain amount story had been told, that's why I loved working with him because we were business. Yeah, we could have go out. Let's do a million false finishes and you know, let's kick out of this and kick out. We didn't need to because we immediately were going like, maybe we can do a trilogy, you know? Yeah, we were. That was the intent. And then obviously, you know, things happened with he left Ring of Honor and the obviously everything. I've then learned of impending A.W. Sure. But we had talked about doing a trilogy like we had talked about doing like, OK, let's do this one in Chicago, then Nashville, and then we'll do the third one in London, which was, you know. And unfortunately, we never got to do that. Well, I mean, there's there's still time for another all these roads match isn't there. I would hope so. I would think so. This time for more than one, life is long. Hey, man, life is long and wrestling is on a mortgage. Yeah, yeah, that's right. We could do it here. We could do it there. We can do it everywhere. I'll be here again. Hey, there's still time. 20 years, brother. Well, man, you got a few weeks off. We'll be hanging. Yeah, just chillin. I'll be at rest, OK? You be at rest, OK? What is the best way? Are you still going to attempt an Instagram subscription service or subscribe? OK, oh, it's yeah, it's there. I mean, I don't know what. I'll get exclusive pictures until I can figure out how to do exclusive videos. Yeah, that's about to say if, if, if the wildness that we're seeing is escaping onto the public platform, I can't imagine what's going to be behind that paywall any one way to find out about 499. All right. Well, subscribe to all of Nick. Yeah, all this is social media accounts. And I mean. Man, it's going to be very, very interesting heading into 2023 with Nick Aldis on the on the open market, you know, that's one that you've been so associated with a brand. I hope so for so long. Yeah. And I don't think there are many guys like you out there with the look that you have, the pedigree that you have and the skill set that you have that are available, right? Like, Oh, I forgot he's been tied up with this thing for so long. I forgot. Again, you're you're sort of teeing me up to say something braggadocious. But. Well, that's my perception of it. OK, thank you. And maybe it's just because I don't have any of those things that I just listed by them. And you and I really appreciate you coming up here. And I'll just say this. I feel like I've put I've put in my hours, you know what I mean? I've paid my dues, and I feel like if. If there was an opportunity now, I wouldn't let anybody down. Yeah, I think that's all anybody can ask. I think that's, uh, that's a very nice way to to send everybody on their way. I appreciate you coming all the way up here, jumping in the Nazeem studio, telling your story. And yeah, the next time there's breaking news, you have to come back. We'll see for sure, man. Thanks a lot. Thanks, buddy. Thanks for listening. Follow not Sam, on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube. Rate review and subscribe. This has been not Sam wrestling.