Karma & Chaos with Kail Lowry & Becky Hayter

Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Sam. Roberts Wrestling Podcast. Introducing your host from New York, here is Sam Roberts. Welcome to Sam Roberts wrestling podcast. So much going on today. I'm glad everybody is here with me in the Sam Roberts traveling studio. Listen, so much going on today. I feel like Raw gave us all hope. I feel like if Jimmy Jacobs can be a rosebud, any of us can be rosebuds. Well, maybe not any of us, but at least me. I feel like one day my big, curly haired self will be a Rhodes. But who knows? I've seen no al-Falih. I've seen Jimmy Jacobs. Maybe you'll see Sam Roberts on an episode of Raw. I'll talk about Raw. I'll talk about TLC. And of course, I want to talk to you guys about my take on next hour evolution and that whole wrestling show. First, let's start with the interview I get to my monologue after. That's the wonderfulness of this podcast. You know, I always talk about what a wrestling fan I am, and that the reason that I do this podcast is because I'm a wrestling fan. One of the people that's made me the wrestling fan that I am today is Mick Foley. I've known Mick Foley for a long, long time, probably met him seven or eight years ago at this point for the first time, and our paths have crossed many, many times since then. He's somebody I was like everybody else. I mean, in high school, there was nobody cooler than Mick Foley. In the fact that we now have a relationship. I'll say we're not dating, but there is a relationship. There is is a thrill for me. So. I wanted to tell you guys about Mick Foley's movie, I Am Santa Claus. This movie is a great, great movie. I mean, it's a documentary that follows people who choose to live their lives as Santa Claus. It follows four or five different Santas and shows them as different people what they do when it's not Christmas, them trying to get gigs on Christmas. It really is a funny documentary. It's it's insightful and it's well filmed. It's one shot. You feel like you're watching something that a lot of money time care was put into. I mean, it's like a wrestling storyline, you know, when you're watching a wrestling story. If this thing has not been well thought out because you feel it, you're looking at it going, Nobody. No is the reason. I don't know where this is going is because the people writing it don't know where this is going. They just threw this at me versus, I know when I'm watching a rich story that's well thought out that that is there is some purpose behind what I'm seeing this I am Santa Claus is the documentary version of that. It's well thought out. It's it's it's perfectly produced its soundtrack. It's everything. It's true. It's a real live flick. It's on Netflix. I talked to Mick Foley a couple of weeks ago at this point, but since I've spoken to him, it's this movie has been released on Netflix, so I would recommend everybody go out. Watch the movie on Netflix. I am Santa Claus. And then if you love it, buy the DVD, buy the Blu ray, do whatever you have to do. I got to sit down and talk to Mick Foley, not only about the movie, but about some of what's going on in the world of wrestling. Here it is the interview for this week's Sam Roberts wrestling podcast. Mr. Mick Foley and now the Sam Roberts Wrestling Podcast Interview. Let's all welcome Mick Foley back into my life. There's that sound, that sound that accompanies me everywhere star when I can't get the real audio traction, I make up my own good. Well, that's the spirit, isn't it? That's everything star of I am Santa Claus. I would say Wilson. It's an ensemble piece. Yeah, I I'm not. I'm not the heart and soul of the music. I'm I may be the feel good part. Yeah, I mean, I have to tell you, there was a couple more. I was lucky enough to see the big New York City premiere. Thank you for being there, Sam. Of course, of course. But I went with my wife, who's not a wrestling fan whatsoever, right? But and that's that's my kind of how I figure whether or not something successful because I'm like a lot of wrestling fans, you probably you may get frustrated at times because wrestling fans will tend to just tell you whatever you do is brilliant. Yes, and they're predisposed yeah to to liking it or makes an error. I like him. They want to like they want. I'm going to find the good in whatever this is. Yeah, but like, that's why I keep my wife around to be like this show. Tell me if something's boring. Only reason you keep your why is it just to find out if Mick Foley is entertaining or not? That's all I needed. What was the report? It's my Foley gauge. It was you. I was looking at her while the movie was on, so I didn't want her to be polite to me. Yeah, I saw her get teary eyed at two different points. Let me guess when Shannon Jim is talking about realizing that he is part of people's lives. Yeah, that his portrayal of Santa makes him unknowingly part of people's lives and the second tier part, maybe during the Foley Christmas Eve visit. That's right. I know you didn't want to say it because it would have been a hurtful no, but absolutely it was the end. It was the Foley Christmas visit. Well, that's not nice. I might not be a tier inducer, but it's definitely a huge smile and do, sir. And it's so yeah, I listen. It's my it's my movie. Hmm. And as we talked about on Opie and Jimmy Show, there's been a backlash within the Santa community, largely almost entirely from people who have not seen the movie. You know, one or two people went to the Hollywood premiere and thought it took away from the magic and thought that, you know, kids would. I was going to ask that because like, you know, from your years in wrestling kayfabe. Yes, you know what I mean? And when you first started kayfabe meant a very different thing than it does now. Is there a Santa kayfabe? Not, not. Well, it's a strange world, and it reminds me so much of professor wrestling. I'm not saying it's a bad word. A lot of ways it's a wonderful world because everybody's trying to do their utmost to do what's best, which is spread joy and and perpetuate, you know, this iconic figure of Santa Claus? Yeah. There are guys who are traditionally bearded Santa Santas who put on a beard and they think they're doing the job best because they're not putting kids in a situation where they're seeing Santa anywhere but in a Christmas setting. What I've been around the real bearded guy and and and it doesn't matter if there's six of them having breakfast at Denny's or in the case of the International Brotherhood of Real Bearded Santas celebration in Tampa, where there are literally hundreds of guys. You know, kids come to the celebration. We did a big blood drive and it's like, See if you can spot the real Santa. Hmm. And not one kid walks out of there going. I don't believe I saw 300 guys. I mean, they gravitate towards the guy that seems that seems like the real deal to them. And so one guy, you know, during the Hollywood premiere, it was his first year, you know, wearing the red suit, but a long time seasoned storyteller, he said, Why would you put out a. And this is a traditionally bearded, you know, this is a real bearded, real beard. Why would you why would you put out a movie that exposes the magic? It's not. It's not exposing the magic. First of all, all the ways that kids can find out watching a 90 minute R-rated documentary is going to be really, really low on that list. You know, almost every kid, I can't prove this, but I'm a pretty, you know, I have a pretty good feeling for how things go down. Kids are going to be bored if they're five or six years old. It might be funny for Santa Russell to be cursing for five minutes, and then they're going to turn on a cartoon because they're going to see it as boring for a kid who does sit through there. They're most of them are going to come to the conclusion that my Santa's real name, legal name, Santa Claus is is the real guy. And I think for kids who are not in that magical age for adults, they come out like that one guy did. I met a couple on the elevator going to my hotel suite in Midtown, and they liked my festive, you know, attire. Not the same festive day this day, 316 consecutive days wearing Santa themed attire. I was afraid you were going to say of wearing this T-shirt, not this exact link. Tonight, I had a beautiful, custom made embroidered red corduroy. A Santa vest, and the woman remarked on how festive it was, and I said I had a documentary that was premiering and so without any knowledge as to what the movie was about. They knew it was a Santa related documentary, but I had no idea who I was and they showed up. And during the Q&A, I asked if they might have, you know, I'd be interested in hearing their feedback. And with the man said, and I think this is going to be kind of universally said. I had no idea people were so passionate about their work as as Santa, and I think that's what guys are missing. Guys who are in that world were in that bubble. They're going to look at the negative. Yeah, which is we show these guys as real flesh and blood human beings who make mistakes just like everybody else. I think to the outside observer, they walk away and they go, they might think a couple of guys are a little crazy. You know, my dear dear friend Santa and legally changing your name to Santa Claus is a commitment. Yeah. You know, Russell is a little bit cantankerous, but lovable. Santa Jim is either the nicest, warmest, most beautiful human being you've met or the devil, depending on how you feel about homosexuality. And I'm kind of the jolly guy. I think it'd be hard for someone not like me in that role because I'm the first timer with stars in his eyes, right? But especially after everything that you've been through to still find this avenue where you have stars in your eyes, you're like, Wow, look at this world. This is amazing. Yeah, I loved it, man. As a dad, I'm glad and you know my family love it. Yeah, the older kids more so than the younger kids. But to see my kids having one of the greatest moments of their lives and then if you look closer, you're like, You know what? But that guy, the big guy with the beard, he's enjoying it more than anybody else. And so I would put that I mean, I'm not putting down any of the Rankin Bass classics or miracle on 34th Street or else no way am I going to put, but I'll put that scene at my house and Christmas is up there with the most touching Christmas scenes you will ever see in the cinema. It will. I mean, and it's at the end of the movie. I don't want to spoil everything or whatever, but there is. It's this moment where you and you start and it's perfect and it's real life because half of it's filmed on your son's video camera. But it's like this perfect cinematic thing where you go, Oh, goofy, Mickey thought is tranquil. Oh, wait a minute, wait just a minute. But it sounds like to, you know you're making a little bit about the kayfabe comparison, but the reactions that you were getting from the people who were saying, Well, we didn't know that people were this passionate about it. We didn't know anybody took it this seriously. It doesn't sound that dissimilar from reactions beyond the Mac guy. No, and that's that's what attracted me to the project, and that's ultimately what I was. I was writing to some of these guys saying, Listen, I was in this, you know, when I saw the guys, there is a world and a community on Facebook and on the internet as Santa people. Yeah, really upset about the movie. The fact that there is a movie exposing, you know, the business, the business. And I tried to say and listen, Mr. McMahon to this day does not like be on the map because he thinks it takes away people's ability to enjoy the magic. Almost everyone I've spoken to has, you know, almost universally they walk out of that experience, whether it's in the theater or on their DVD or on, on, on, on cable, and they go. I had no idea. Like, they walk out and there was so much more respect for the guys than they did. And I feel like this movie accomplishes the same task that Santa is not something that you resort to, that Santa is something you aspire to. It's something that these guys look forward to all year. And there is some sadness, you know, like our cast of characters revolves around and there's Santa Bob who has everything I would say in proper perspective. He says it's number three in his life, behind his, his religion, behind his family. And then there there's Santa, you know, and he's very content to be a well-compensated Santa at an upscale mall. Seven weeks out of the year, my Santa, you know, he wants to. He wants to be that guy, but he can't drop that Long Island. No, he cannot do Santa with exec Long Island and Long Island accent. I will say because the tradition of Santa Claus came from the Dutch Santa Claus, who brought it over to New York with them that he can fit through that loophole. That to me, Santa would be a New Yorker, OK, he would be in New York. That's where the Dutch have trouble. Yes. Yes. Yeah. That in New Amsterdam. You'd have trouble trying to sell that notion to the to the southern Santas who believe that they've got it down right? Of course. Or Richard Attenborough. You know, now now deceased Richard Attenborough as the English Santa. But one of the one of the wonderful things about that world to me is that Santa is whoever you see him. As being, do you think because of your obsession with Christmas and Santa's unhealthy obsession? A healthy one has been well-documented, but as I was about it just last night when I was watching the movie, do you feel like the more kids like the wrestling world can be pretty negative at times and political and you know it just. Yeah, especially that coupled with the violent style of wrestling you became accustomed for as you got more and more violent. And as things kind of that world became physical as, say, got more and more physical physical use the v word. But if it got physical as that were extremely physical, kind of uglier and uglier, shall we say. Did you fall more and more into the Santa world of personal life? Yeah, I did. Just to kind of get this sanity, I would retreat because it was, you know, I'm, you know, not trying to start the violence here, although we have a soundtrack might be a good time to fire them up. But I would come home for another tear jerker moment, another passing year. You know, it was. It was getting harder for me to to get around and the price to pay for entertaining people in the way that I chose it was was higher. And so I needed that retreat. You know, when I came home, I wanted to be as far away from that world as possible. And obviously, you know, these moments I had as a child at Christmastime meant a lot to me, and the moments that I spent with my kids at Christmas were things that I wanted to expand and celebrate throughout the year. And so I wanted to have a part of that Christmas magic with me all year long. Did you get frustrated that especially at the time, wrestling fans couldn't really grasp the fact that you wanted to separate yourself from that because it was your every day? I mean, I think it's the same thing everywhere. Like, you know, I don't really want to talk about what goes on on the radio everywhere I go. There's other things that are going on in my life. And it's funny because, you know, my my Twitter account, you know, especially for a guy, I'm still a so I'll obviously in people's minds, I'm still associated with David Debbie. I don't have a contract, but I'm always going to be a WWE guy. And and it seems like also as you've separated more and more, you've been able to start watching the product give opinions and your product. Yeah, I can. I can. You know, I'm very honest with my opinions. Yes, I believe it's always appreciated, really. Yeah, I believe they look at it and I believe they take my, my, my opinions into consideration. Even when you threaten to smash your TV, I did smash my TV. Yeah, I realized that I was upset and they did respond. And I mean, she should make as an author, you should know not to judge a book by its cover. And I said, All right, I'll be looking forward to seeing how the story ends. And I said months, I'm glad go on to really Hunter. My book was about me and I was on the cover. You can sometimes judge a book by its cover. But going back to what you're saying, there are a fair. I mean, what I was trying to say is I've got a pretty large following now on social media. Yeah, and I've got two accounts, especially being a not a guy who's out there in the, you know, on a weekly basis with the Hey, follow that real Mick Foley pretty large following, and it grows by a few thousand every every week, whereas my alternate account at Foley is Santa loses $100 TOWIE, so I'll check what out just of my dialogue. Another 100 people dropped me and she goes, Why's it? Because I think it's pretty clear they're like, OK, we we we accept that you love this, but we give them, we're not going to take that ride with you. But now that it's, you know, November and now that I think people are realizing he's been wearing Santa themed clothes for three hundred and sixteen consecutive days, that's not going to drive people to Cedars. It may not even induce to to to purchase a DVD, but I believe when it shows up on Netflix after Thanksgiving that people will check it out and they'll see the same passion that I, you know, that I put into. I think it's far more inspirational to see somebody, you know, displaying equal passion for something than going through the motions. It's something they used to love and nothing around. I still love wrestling. I was on a few weeks ago, I was on Raw. It was a highlight for me. Mountain. And what was it like a few weeks ago when you were on Raw? Because I was watching and you've said in your books and everything that there are moments where you go out there for the paycheck and then there are moments where you really went out there and it felt like there was it was a real Mick Foley. It was a good moment and I was in a position where we were about to have the world premiere of I Am Santa Claus in Hollywood. And I got the call from Debbie, Debbie and we were scheduled to do Kevin Smith's podcast and Marc Maron's podcast. And for a guy like me, a performer, whether you call me a comic or a spoken word guy, Marc Maron's cloud guest is huge big deal. And to give that up in order to do a spot and. Wrestling was not a decision I made easily Cavite, which you had to do. Yeah. Kevin, thankfully, he attended the premiere with his wife, loved it, which meant so much when he's when he's there, you're on his pad podcast and he's explaining exactly why it was a great movie, not just the storylines, but about being beautifully shot and the score. I mean, and my first reaction was, Kevin, you just kind of made me feel critic proof. And he joked, Apparently you haven't seen some of my reviews. I said, No, not that. I said the fact that you got it right means that it's there to be gotten right. And so no matter what anyone else says, my initial gut reaction internally is going to be Kevin Smith. Like that. He knows more about movies. Probably the same way in the comedy world when Judah Friedlander is like, Yeah, you're on the right track, you're like, I'm going to listen to that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not that. A few of those, yeah, those other guys, you need those people. We're going to be brutally honest with you. Right? But to tell you, Hey, you've got something, you should pursue that. So when this raw offer came in, I honestly, if it had been something where they wanted to be on a panel or in a backstage venue that I would have said in my initial reaction was, I'm sorry, I'm doing press for a movie. And then I thought about it. They told me the role. I was like, Man, that's something I want to do like this. It's the best scenarios and wrestling result when everyone wins. And I knew I would be the case where I could come up with my own verbiage and where I had a chance to be out there in in a in a in a surrounding. The people associated with me hit me with with his cell. And using your own verbiage is not like something to scoff at this day and age. That's not something that has to that. Oh yeah, it doesn't happen all that often. If I'd been and I was really thankful they didn't hand me a bunch of stuff. They just had ideas where they wanted me to go and I just would like to do. And then I said, Listen, if this goes correctly, I'm going to make. My goal is I want to put Dean Ambrose over Ambrose. I want to put Seth Rollins over. I want to put the stipulation. I want to put the cell itself over the match itself over. And if I do all those things correctly, I'll get over simultaneously. Yeah, but the goal, honestly, and I've got faults, but when I'm out there and I've got that microphone in my hand, I think I've got everything in, you know, the correct proportion, which is if I do my job right, I'll get over by extension. And then once I walked out there in that ring, it was like, you know, it felt special, it felt magical. It didn't feel that there's anything wrong with being the guy in a funny vignette, but I walked out of the experience saying, You know what, I can do this even if it's once a year, they know that they can call me on the phone and I'm going to deliver for them. And so I will have to say, you know, next time the phone rings, Hey, we want you to present an award at the slam is, you know what? I you know, I might I might do it. I probably will. It looks now like WB Network is going to be producing, you know, the the the my special. Oh, that's great. And that will immediately put to rest all those questions. What does he do? What is he? Yeah, my shows and I'll ask people, say anyone have any idea what I do? And it's like only five percent of the people and the fact that, you know, there's a buzz going around the fact that, you know, people have shown up putting down their hard earned money on an unknown entity like my show in a tough economy is showing a lot of faith. And as far as like your shows go, and I will say this without blowing smoke up your a*s. There's a it's a really difficult thing to do to combine pro wrestling and entertainment because they're almost two separate worlds like people either like pro wrestling or they like everything that's not pro wrestling. And I've been I've interacted with every comic ever I've been. I've seen every comic you can imagine. And I've also seen every wrestler you can imagine. Yeah, right. But there's a big difference. Like I went to Caroline's and I saw the iron sheet roast. Yes, and it was like the fans that were there for wrestling did not want to hear any of the comedians, right? The fans that were fans of comedy were like, What are these? What's like new Jack doing up there? You just kind of rambling and saying wrestling stuff. You have figured out a way to still incorporate wrestling, and so the wrestling fans know and actually tell stories. And I used my Mick Foley gauge. I used my wife to do something that's entertaining, like regardless. Yeah, it's an entertaining story. And it's funny because I'll look out of the audience, and I'll sometimes I'll ask if anyone is brave enough to admit they're not a wrestling fan or brave enough to point behind their wife's back. And I'll say, you're going to have a better time and you're expecting. And are you on high alert to watch eyes glazing over? Because I feel like I feel like as somebody who who watches wrestling and has watched wrestling forever, like just in normal conversation, like, I have to know little words where it's like, now you've passed it, like now you've lost whoever you're talking to know. The look I really cherish is about the ten minute mark. And it's it's it's almost indescribable. But I'll. To say it's a look of relief and like this look of pleasure where they realize I'm having fun, like I was not counting on this and in some ways, or they don't realize now they can no longer hold this evening over their husband's head. In the next five years ago, I went to make Foley Show with you and they they enjoy their stories about interesting people. And I know going in like some of my stories are going to involve some, some grisly injuries, right? So if I don't, if I don't create an atmosphere of warmth, then I'm just the guy telling gross stories. And so I try to make people care about about the people in the same way, and I'll jump into the Santa thing and why it appealed to me in the same way that I took great pride in the fact that there were moms who would pick up my first book. You know, have a nice day. OK, I wonder it's great to Jimi's reading. I wonder what they say is and go, I can't put this down. This is a really good would that I don't even know how aware of it. I feel like that book became the book for wrestling fans to give to their girlfriends. Like, No, I know you don't get it, but here. Read this It'll explain, and I think I'll go out on a limb and say, I mean the wrestler to watch or people who don't like it, you know, like, yeah. And not just for the outrageous stuff, but I think in a weird way, like the women like, they sense like sensitive, you know, like I like him, like I can get caught up in his problems, whether they're fictional or not. Like, he makes me feel like I should be supporting men. And that's what I love. You know, that's what I love about the movie I am Santa Claus is that you don't have to be a Santa enthusiast, you know, to. I think the movie actually works in the opposite way, like the fact that you guys made it R-rated, the fact that you kept it honest and real, like you have Santa cursing, you have Santa drinking, you have Santa. You're talking about Santa sex life, whether he's a gay Santa who's going to a the convention or a swinger Santa who he's got to get past these stereotypes. Like, it's like, OK, this is actually interesting stories about these characters, you know? Yeah, and completely unexpected. Right? And then in the end, I just I give a lot of credit to the director, Tommy Abalone and his producers, Dirk Lindemann. And if you don't mind, I put myself on the back a little bit there because, you know, a lot of that jolly ness that comes together in the last 20 minutes was stuff that I was very hands on for, even to the selection of, you know, a jolly old St. Nicholas for the theme song is, you know, you're working on a low budget documentary. And I was going to say, because I've heard other people talk about low budget documentaries. Yeah, and you watch them and you're like, OK, yeah, I can. I can tell that that's a low budget doc. But this one, like some of this, you must have just figured out how to spend money smartly because you've got WWE footage which can't be cheap. You've got legitimate music. It doesn't look like it was filmed on camcorders. It was actually filmed on something professional. Like when I was watching this movie in a theater, it wasn't, oh, you know, they must have rented out the theater and they let them play this. It was like, No, this is a movie that could be conceivably shown in, and they got a lot of like a lot of bang for their buck when it came to WWE because they're a publicly held company that had to charge us for the footage. Right? And at first, I thought the charge a little extreme, and I went in and I talked to Kevin Dunn, that producer and I don't want to, you know, none of them wants me saying this. But when he watched the scene at Christmas Eve, Kevin was wiping away tears in his eyes and I'm like, Geez, Kevin, you're a guy in a production truck for 20 weeks, 20 hours a week, and in another 60 hours a week is about an 80 hour week guy like we're in the business in some way. I don't mean this negatively of manipulating emotions, right? You get people in for, you know, enthusiastic about or showing. And yet we had him, you know, clearly touch. And he goes, I goes, I'm sorry, goes, but I'm I'm a father, and that's real. And so we worked out a deal that worked for both of us are going to work for the shareholders where they weren't giving away for free. And it wasn't as much as we, you know, they'd asked for one time somebody wanted 25000 for a Frankie Valli song and we were able to get it, you know, four, four 500. Wow, that's some shrewd negotiating, Dee Snider. Unfortunately, Dee's a good friend of mine and we were able to get, you know, his version of Deck the Halls for a pittance. We're using like songs in the public domain, you know, but but you know, so in the case where there's magical transfer and it is magic when I transform, you know, it's like it's almost like movie magic, but it's it's a real transformation with the bleaching of the beard. We had Carol of the Bells. Carol of the Bells is a public domain song because it's so old, but you can't use Mannheim Steamroller Rollers, Cow Bells. So we had our own guy create the music, you know, like a guy creating the score. Original songs Jolly Old St. Nicholas works perfectly. We can't use the Chet Atkins version, so we had to come up with their own version and we had this amazing guy to spec who had. Written songs for Morgan Spurlock So Super Size Me, coming up with original rap songs for Santas Barbecue and yeah, I agree with you. Like, I see the money I know, I know these guys skimped. And that's why I like the one notion that really bothers me in the Santa world is the idea of, Yeah, you guys do anything for a buck. And it's like, you know, these guys worked on this for three years. Yeah, they slept in airports. They traveled with four people, you know, an economy car like they cut corners everywhere. Even my bleaching scene is done in a $55 motel room like every dollars on that on that screen and to make sure it looks like, yeah, they did, they did an amazing job. There's, you know, claymation. It's a it's a really good claiming. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what Kevin was saying. He was pointing out beautifully shot the claymation. Yeah, songs, it comes together. So even if you're somebody who's personally offended by, you know, by one of our Santas or by the material, you know, tend to dismiss it as a piece of, you know, a blank movie is just is wrong. It's a it's a it's a it's a good movie. Let me ask you, you were famous. You famously said before that you at one point in your career, didn't want to be the guy who pulled the sock out of his. And then you realize in transition, you're like, you know, it just kind of works. So we go forward. Is there any part of you that's like, Well, if I become Santa, does that shadow the sort of death match hell in a cell God? Or do you want that? I see me shaking my head. Not, not at all. And and I have WB Network partially to thank for that. Like, my legacy is cemented here. Yeah, yeah. So someone wonders like why there's no wrestling memorabilia in my house. So my yeah, I've got something that reminds me that I was a wrestler. It's called waking up in the morning. You know, I and I'm and I'm approached, and I don't mean this in a bad way. Like every day somebody you know, mentions things to me and it's funny to my kids. We walk with me, and there's only so many ways that you can answer somebody talking about Alan and Sal. But then and it's still the first time I interviewed you, said that this is the one question you get asked on 16 years and now more than ever, you know, I mean, I'm you live with it. It's like, you know, Adam Wessler, you know, you better learn to live with it. Yeah, love it. Or else it'll haunt you. But my kids will be walking through an airport, and some the guys just go as he's walking by. He won't say, Hey, guys, look back. You'll go. He won't start up going, I know you're with your family, but I hate to do this, but I don't mean to be a bother. But right? But a guy will just go, Thank you for everything you've done, and I'll say, you're welcome and I'll walk, walk away. And my son, I really like when people do that, don't you, dad? Yeah, it's always nice to be appreciated. And so I get that every single day. And Dee Snider, I mentioned, I was kind of along with JJ French and the other members of Twisted Sister and stuff to give us. Deck the halls for almost nothing. He's he said to me, like he we feel certain kinship. You know, daddy, you know, he dressed in the drag and he was a bat. You know, the badass, you know, like he had to get a bodyguard once he started making money to prevent him from leaping into crowds and beating up unruly fans and said he goes, Do you find that what you did in the ring makes it easier to turn around and do things like that are kinder? It might be cancer more sensitive. The guys that didn't have our background might have trouble doing, and I said absolutely like so I have no problem a like. When I was a commissioner, there's a guy wearing a Mick Foley St Mick T-shirt. I that I had no problem when I was a commissioner in 2000. Being being the nerd right, being the least tough guy in the room because everyone who'd watched me knew that I had the background. I was also thinking, because you did Opie Show and Vic Hanley was busting your balls. And that's part of, you know, being in the standup world, stand bust each other's balls. But is there any part of you? Normally stand ups are busting each other's balls because they can't fight. You know what I mean? Like, the reason that I make fun of people is because I can't I can't fight anybody. So. So is there any part of you? Like, does that click in it all that you're like, I'm the king of the death match. God damn it. Who are you talking to? No, I did get a larger rated their, you know, like I wish they could do to you. I understand it makes for good radio. I thought he went a little excessive about me there. I was obviously a new guy. I didn't know the light, you know, I didn't know how to put, you know, seven minutes in a light and five. I didn't know that for sure. I'm in a position now where I don't need to know that because, you know, I do my own shows and I can go with, you know, as usually as long as I want. And I and I love that love that freedom. But the fact that. I was shown up for free at the comic strip and the fact that I was shown up at my local clubs, you know, governors and McGuire's in Long Island, like one of the other guys going, Hey, can you do six to eight? No money, no mention. And that's where you really cut your teeth and you cannot appreciate the good times until you've had a couple of those absolutely disastrous disasters. As I mentioned to Jim to Jim Norton before I left the show, I said, Yeah, I remember what you told me about he did Shane and Vince McMahon's Shane's Bachelor party? Yeah, as a new comic who tanked. Yeah, and it's painful to take. It's painful in a way I would imagine, especially in front of the McMahon's front of the big man. And it reminds me so much of being an independent wrestler. Every match is your most important match. And if you screw up, you may not. You may not be able to redeem yourself for weeks. Then when I was in Debbie Derby, have a bad match. Like, You know what? I'm going to redeem myself tomorrow. When your guy out there, you don't know when your next gig is, whether it's a comedy event or a wrestling show, it's like you live with that failure for weeks and it eats at you. And so I'm glad I went through those like So now when I'm on stage and I'm comfortable, like I can much better appreciate the forum having because there were some times that were absolutely miserable. Yeah, I would. Yeah. And you have to. It's like you can always the people who come straight to WWE, for instance, without having to really pay dues at some point. That thing clicks, and it just doesn't last. There's not. And I feel bad for those guys because there is there is no territories to learn your trade. You know, there's annexed and they're doing a wonderful job with developmental and the guys go out there and they work their butts off in the independent scene in order to get noticed. But like, I was so fortunate that I went to Memphis or I did not enjoy myself. You know, I was there for four months that I went to world class championship wrestling out of Dallas for almost a year. And in Dallas, you know, you hit your angles on Saturday morning TV so that you could do your Friday night TV in the sport of tourism and weather. You know, your paycheck depended greatly on how well you pulled off those either literally money on the line, right? Not much. You know, I wasn't making much, but it was still that I might get to dinner tonight or not that if you did well, you would see that that Friday night show would increase. And guys in a lot of cases haven't had the chance to find their own characters. They're making their mistakes on the big stage instead of making them in the TV studio in Memphis or the Sport Yttrium in Dallas. Or when I worked for Continental and in Alabama, like, I had a lot of chances to mess up badly with very few people watching so that when I finally did get on the the big stage, you know, gentlemen, not just WCW in late 89 and then, you know, yeah, through 93 with a year and a half high end through 94 the year and a half hiatus in between. But when I showed up in WWE in 96 like I, I felt like I belong there, right? And I felt like I had earned the right to, you know, to go to bat for myself. And I thought something was a bad idea. I would voice it. I was diplomatic, but you need to have that confidence, so I know what my value is. Yeah, I know what I'm capable of. Yeah. And and guys are coming in. Unfortunately, you know, it's tough to develop that when you've only got a few years under your belt and you're just happy to be there. Yeah. And so, Mr. McMann, I would imagine when you're in and out and you're getting all these opportunities like we've got this whole facility, it must be getting pounded in like, be thankful that you have this because most people don't have this. And that's the mentality that doesn't necessarily breed confidence. Yeah, it's a it's a difficult situation. I know we're getting way off of a shameless self-promotion. I am Santa Claus. That's right. I'm here to talk about. But Vince is big on grabbing the brass ring. Yeah. But the guys, they're an addict. They become almost like a family. Yeah, yeah. I guess they're there and they're training, and it's hard to be that guy that says, No, I'm going to be better than everybody else because you have this or you kind of have to be willing to pull the rug out from under somebody if you have to, in a sense. I was lucky in that I had a unique character, and if I had a real strength as a wrestler was that I gelled well with almost anybody, right? And if I did a good job, everyone was going to benefit. That was what hopefully I brought to the table. So like, you'll see some on Twitter and they'll say, like, I think Mick Foley was the most important opponent for The Rock and for Triple H. I like to think, you know, when any of the guys sit down, they go, All right, who were the most valuable people that I wrestled? Like, Who was I better off for having been with that? My name would show up on that small list of four or five guys that were instrumental in their development. And I guess that's the legacy. Let me ask you about Allen and said, Did you watch the hell in a cell pay per view recently? Yes, I did. What do you think? Because I'm watching this pay per view and I'm reading on. Winter, everybody on the internet is obsessed with this idea that WWE can't tell stories, especially in a cage without blood. I'm of the opinion that you can do it without. Yeah, but but so you think that you just need to find more creative ways to tell stories? It makes it more difficult. Sure, it does. But I saw it and people are, you know, people are jaded. You know, you see, they've seen a lot, especially the long term fans. You know who who watch every week doing it for years. They've seen a lot. Guys are really, you know, people say to me, Oh, you guys really put out in the attitude hours. I know these guys are really putting out too, and in some ways, even more so because a few developments, everyone has short hair. Mm hmm. They're in high definition. Yeah, everything has to be in there. And when you remove, like some of the extreme measures, you're also in a way, taking away the shortcuts. And so the matches are extremely physical and guys are working just as hard, if not harder than ever. Yeah. You to convince somebody that this chair shot is the most devastating thing without it hitting my head? Yeah. And so now I mean, I look and now a guy uses a chair across the back. All right. Everyone knows that stings. But in order to make a statement now that you have 12 times and I'm looking, I know what hurts and what doesn't, and when they start going to the shoulders, and that's where you start chipping bones in your elbows. And I imagine that a lot of the guys are, you know, are suffering for their art. And I thought both of the cell matches delivered, I thought Triple H and John Cena had an excellent salesman. I mean, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. John Cena and Orton and excellent so much, especially given how many times they've been in the ring together. Yeah. And I think and I reposted this article, I don't know if it's from bleacher cageside seats. I was just cageside seats talking about the fact that more people aren't talking about Seth Rollins and Ambrose in the cell is a good sign because, yeah, people didn't like the inconclusive finish. You know, but I know that one of my greatest matches against Shawn Michaels at Mind Games and at the time the knock was it had an inconclusive finish. And it's like guys, I was in control of 26 minutes and 57 seconds rematch. I don't blame me for the for the other three, and those guys worked their butts off. And the fact that they went on last, they were the main event and that they were accepted as main event pay per view wrestlers was a huge it was a huge moment in both their careers and for WB. And I did read people saying, yeah, but a hell in a cell match is supposed to be conclusive. And I was like, Did you see the first one? The very first one had interference in? Yeah, that's right. That was a that was a great match. Now, my God, this match taker could not have been any more conclusive, like it was never been any more clear. But I was going to say there never been a more clear cut winner. But at the same time, we both walked out of there. Yeah, I limped greatly with the help of two other people that I did not go on a stretcher and that damn Terry Funk did get involved. They did get involved, but it was clearly a moral, a moral victory. And, you know, I mean, that was kind of an anomaly in the sense that you'll never have something like that taking place again. So as you're trying to move on with your life and like, appreciate the things that you really appreciate and get involved in Santa life and and all this stuff when your daughter Noelle becomes this like super WWE fan, like one of the biggest WWE fans I've ever seen. Are you going like, I can't? I can't get away from this stuff. My daughter is a fan who has fans. Yeah, it's so surreal that when I walk out of the Barclays Center, they chant Foleys daughter, you know? And she's a striking young woman and she she's six feet tall without heels and she's funny, you know, like people are drawn to her. You know, I'll tweet something out. I've got my one point one, five million followers and then she'll tweet something out similar, and she gets almost as many as retweets as I do, which means she's got like a loyal following and so she can be successful in something. I'm not sure what it is. And in the meantime, she's such a great person to hang around with, you know, like she loves hanging around where you control her, her social media for creeps, though I understand there there are some out there and that kind of comes with the territory. And, you know, for every person who's going to say something unnecessarily mean about me, there's going to be somebody going to say something ridiculous about about her. But the truth is, my younger kids have YouTube channel, and the feedback they get is so brutal. It's just it's almost inhumane. I know it's mostly kids their age taunting them, but the fact that there are some adults out there, it's like, Why I like kids, why do you even do? Shoes off they go now we're OK, we're OK, but they can't get it. They kind of get that these are people, you know, like what I'll say in response to somebody, you know, a troll is, I'll just say a direct, you know, direct message him because I don't want to retweet it was asked what they want, of course. What a sad, pathetic life you must lead. You know what a limited hand in the game of life you've been dealt? That this is a highlight. Yeah, that being blocked is your goal, you know. Goal. Congrats, you did it. Goal accomplished. And then you guys go on some of the, you know, they look and you just see these things and it's just going out of their way to make other people's lives. And it's all they do a little less enjoyable. And that's like, you know, like, that's I like the Santa movie shows you some greatly flawed people who find a way it, you know, to, you know, emerge in that red suit with the best part of themselves. And I'll tell you this again about that Foley moment at the end of the movie. It reminds you in this world of like internet hate and this and that it reminds you that wait a minute, it feels good to watch somebody feel good like this. These kids feel great now. I feel great. And look what's happened. Yeah, yeah. And then at the end of the movie. And this was a battle I had with the director, and ultimately, I think he was right. I wanted to go home on the high note. And he said, but to be true to the movie, we have to bring it full circle. We have to show the loneliness, you know, on Christmas Day, we have to show, you know, the the not the despair, but the depression facing our Santa. When he realizes we hit it, guys, you got to the high and we could have gone home, but that would not have been accurate, right? And when we see Santa Russell, I don't want to give away too much of the movie, but he takes that long, lonely ride on Christmas Day. And thank goodness for Dee Schneider's deck the halls, you know, as once we once we end the movie, we hit the afterword and it's everything's jolly again. Well, listen, you know, I support anything Mick Foley does, but everybody should be with me on this because it's it's probably the easiest way to see the movie is on iTunes. It's I am Santa Claus. It's also on Blu ray and DVD and I. Mick Foley aside. Yeah, highly recommended. And Morgan Spurlock has attached himself to. There's I mean, reading it for Morgan. The day after WrestleMania meant that I stayed up. I let the kids go out, let them enjoy themselves. I hung out with Huey. I didn't sleep at all. At a.m., I went to the airport and then I screened the movie with the director, Tommy Avalon. He just for Morgan, and it's shadowed by the harrowing. It's it's like having Mr. McMahon watching your independent matches, you know? And here's here's my here's my match, and having him watch like Morgan was for the first five minutes. And then when he saw Santa Jim taking photos in the bathtub, the horse trough? Yes, with the chickens, he started tapping his feet and I looked at Tommy, and the feeling was, he knows we've got a movie here. That's excellent. So yeah, we we've impressed a lot of very important people and it is it is above and beyond a story about Santa has a story about people and how they strive, you know, to to to be their best despite difficult circumstances. Well, you do have a movie and everybody check it out. Mick Foley. Thanks for hanging out, man. Thank you, Sam. Here is Sam Roberts. Thank you, Howard Finkel, and thank you, Mick Foley. Remember everybody? Check out the movie I am Santa Claus. You have no excuse to not check it out. It's on Netflix now. Watch it on Netflix. I am Santa Claus and you can go to the website. You can find it on Amazon. Actually, if you go to the podcast, support the podcast page at Not Sam Gqom. You can find a link to Amazon dot com on that page. If you click that link and you buy the movie through Amazon, you can help support this here podcast. And by the way, some people call it unprofessional imperfection, or some people call it unprofessional. I call it a real look into my life. What are the wrestling podcast when I'm setting up the interview? Can you hear my phone ringing vibrating? What other podcast wrestling podcast? When I'm sitting here talking to you, can you hear the heat are going in the background that, OK, this is a look into my life. Nobody is this revealing now. I don't have a lot of time. I try to keep this to an hour because otherwise I'm afraid that you guys are going to get tired of me. But let's get into the state of wrestling. So much to talk about today. It's now time for this week's state of Bristol. Yeah, it is. So look. Coming off of a pay per view, TLC NAND, its good moments had its moments. There's no doubt in my mind that Dolph Ziggler and Luke Harper went out to TLC to try to not only steal that show, but to try to get at least something back. From what they lost at the next revolution show, if you mean to tell me I'm telling you right now in my own personal, humble opinion, there is no way that Dolph Ziggler did not purposely take a face full of ladder to bust himself open. You know, it's 2014, OK? We all watch secrets of pro-wrestling on NBC. That's how we all found out. You mean they actually cut themselves? I thought they used ketchup. They're taking a little piece, a razor blade in there, slicing their forehead open. That's despicable. That's insane. Well, they don't do that anymore. It's 2014. There is no blood. If any of these guys go out to the ring and cut themselves open nowadays. They're going to get a half a million dollar fine. Easy. You read Chris Jericho's book, you know the stories. But there is no doubt in my mind that Dolph Ziggler slammed his face into a ladder so he could say, Look, I bled. It was. It happens in matches. It's a ladder match. What can you do? You saw Luke Harper's armpit. When you will take a face full of ladder. Because I mean, you don't fake it, you're like, look, I'm going to actually have to really smash myself in the face with the ladder to heighten the drama of this match, that's commitment to the craft, my friend. All due respect and props and whatever you want to say to Dolph Ziggler for that moment. I think, you know, Roman Reigns came back and he was on Raw last night. You know, Raw had its good moments and bad moments, too. I mean, I was blown away by the whole show. I would say that the best segment of the night was Jericho, Paul Heyman, Brock Lesnar. It's tough to say that Brock Lesnar was a huge surprise coming back number one because, you know, Royal Rumble is right around the corner. It's six weeks away. And number two, because the new Brock Lesnar t shirt debuted on WWE Shop right before Raw went on the air. So those two factors combined led me to believe that we may have a Brock Lesnar appearance, but I thought the war of words between Jericho and Paul Heyman was great. And then with Brock Lesnar coming out, I thought it was really well done. I loved how the show ended, with Brock Lesnar interfering in the cage match between John Cena and Seth Rollins, and I was really scared. I thought that because Seth Rollins, after John Cena took an F5 from Brock Lesnar and Seth Rollins took shook the hand of Paul Heyman. I thought that as long as Seth Rollins was taking to leave that cage super Cena was going to find his way up and still win the match. When Seth Rollins was able to take his sweet time and just stroll out of the cage and win the match, I thought that was exactly how the show should have ended. Well done. Now, in the parts of everybody involved, I thought talking about blood, though, I was interesting because we were talking about it with Mick Foley in the interview earlier that it's tougher to pull off a match like a hell in a cell or whatever you want to do it when blood has been is so far gone like it. It is so much illegal now in the world of sports entertainment. But then you turn around and it really made as far as TLC went. I think Dolph Ziggler, Luke Harper was the match that people were talking about. That was the match with blood in it. I think that Kevin Owens, the former Kevin Steen, was the big star of Next Revolution on Thursday. He's the guy that bled. Now, I don't think that all of this happened strictly because of blood. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that these guys are bleeding and we know the blood is not allowed. OK, we, as smart wrestling fans, are aware that blood is not allowed in WWE or on next or to have anything to do with those products anymore. When you watch the documentaries that are on the WWE Network, any any part of a match they're showing with blood in it from 10 years ago is made. Black and white blood has no place in WWE in 2014, so when we see it, it becomes more special because it makes everything feel real. Because that moment Israel, we know that that wasn't staged or wasn't supposed to be staged anyway. Like I said, I'm pretty sure Dolph Ziggler just slammed his face into a ladder, just sacrificed his beautiful, beautiful face for our entertainment. But that is why I think blood is so exciting in this era because it's not allowed. And if it were to be allowed, then it would make it less exciting. I don't think you need blood to tell the story and and storytelling. I think, as I've said many, many times, is the most important part of sports entertainment. It's the most important part of not only entertaining the people that are watching today, but compelling people to turn it on going forward. It works the same with any TV show. This story is what's going to make people say, you got to turn this show on. I think that what's going on on next, the WWE developmental show that is aired on the WWE Network is exactly the type of programming the WWE Network needs, because especially after they're after their quarterly pay per view, that happened last Thursday. Our evolution? That show had people talking, and that's what you need to do. You need to have shows with stories that have people talking and yes, that show that next show had some of the best wrestling that we've seen in a very long time on television anywhere. But one of the reasons why it was so good was because just about every match had a story to tell. OK. Charlotte and Sasha Banks had one of the most amazing women's matches we've ever seen, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that Sara Del Rey is now training the potential divas down in Orlando. But another part is we cared about the story of that match, and they did a good job of educating us. Corey Graves and Alex Riley in the broadcast team did a good job of educating the audience as to why we cared about the match. I think as far as next goes, it's a double edged sword. I think it's a it's a great thing for the future of the DWP because like I said, I said last week, the roster right now is just littered with amazing talent. And if you combine that with the talent that's in next right now, I mean, there has never been this many talented athletes. There's many athletes that are talented on that level associated with this company. All at one time. Ever, ever, ever, never. But. We have to take this talent. And make them compelling. It's not good enough to just be talented. They also have to be telling a story that makes you want to tune in next week. Oh my God, what's going to happen? I got it, tune in to find out what's going to happen. It can't just be Oh yeah, I watched this show because the matches are really good. It's I have to watch to find out what's going to happen in a world where we have phones that have access to everything we can go on YouTube. You can spend you could scroll through Twitter for two hours. You could just message people on Facebook. You've got 150000 channels. You've got Netflix and Voodoo and Hulu and iTunes and everything imaginable. Every piece of content. Is not terribly far away from you, you can watch whatever you want at any time because of that. The television that we watch and commit to watching every week has to be as to at least feel like you can't miss it. And that's where the storytelling comes in. OK, and that's why Brock Lesnar not being on TV has done them a service because now, OK, you tell your friends, no, no, no, no, no. Brock Lesnar came back on Monday. They're watching next week because they want to see what Brock Lesnar is going to do. I was talking to a coworker. He was saying, Yeah, my Twitter feed was blowing up. With people talking about whatever this next thing they were doing on Thursday was, I guess I got a check out, maybe I subscribe to the network for the month. And check this thing out that people are talking about. You have to get people talking. And the only way you're going to do that is through stories that are compelling. Part of it is, of course, having good athletes, but it's the stories. And next is a double edged sword because the positive is they have this amazing talent roster. The negative is. The next is a farm league, it's a developmental system, it is a feeder group. It is where wrestlers go, who are supposedly not ready for the main roster. It's where it's the it's the teaching ground. So then you tell me why the next show that aired on Thursday night, the two hour live are evolution special was. Maybe the best wrestling show of the year, if not, then it was WrestleMania 30. But it was up there with WrestleMania 30, WrestleMania 30 Revolution and maybe SummerSlam. SummerSlam was a great show to. But the next show that was on Thursday, the developmental show was among the best. The top three, if not top two, if not top one wrestling shows of the year. And that's because the world title match was great between Sami Zayn and Adrian Neville. It's because you had Sasha Banks and Charlotte. It's because you had Kevin Owens, who is just amazing. It's because, I mean, you're Finn Balor who's has this spectacular entrance. That's better. There have been Baylor. He his entrance in an arena that had probably less than a thousand people was more spectacular than almost anything we've seen all year. Can you imagine a Finn Balor entrance in a stadium? Can you imagine a WrestleMania level Finn Balor entrance? It doesn't even matter what he does in the ring at that point, people are just going to be talking about his entrance. And that's what I mean about compelling TV. The fact that he can go into the ring and completely tear it up. Is a bonus and that you have all of that going on in Orlando. You go, wow, this is how good it could be. And then you turn on TLC and it's good and you turn on raw and it's not bad. But you don't look at these shows the way you looked at that next show. And, you know, it's easier to write for next. You've got one hour a week. And you've got four two hour pay per views a year. You've got shows you're taping four or five shows in one shot so you can write four or five weeks of TV knowing, OK, I have this vision over the next five weeks. Let's get it all out now, because if you write five weeks of live shows in advance by week three, I was thinking about this. I'm just going to change this up because you can change it up. You can't write five weeks in advance fall shows if you're doing live TV. It will never work. You'll be second guessing yourself. You know what? I think I can do this a little better. Maybe I'll just tweak this, or you'll listen to the crowd one week and go, You know what? They were actually really reacting to that. Let's go in this direction. And that's a good thing to do. It's good to have that option, but it makes it so. You can't have that thing where when you're watching next. And these stories are playing out. It feels like it's a rich story. It's something that makes sense. It's something that has a beginning, middle and end. It's something that's well planned and well thought out. It's not something we're making up as we go along. You know, you see a guy, you know, you see New Day, right, Kofi Kingston and Big E and Xavier Woods. They get repackaged and they get these great looking new outfits and they can cut a good promo. All of them are good on the mic. And they got theme music and they got a video and they have what appears to be a gimmick, but it's not really a gimmick. Because they're just coming out and saying, well, we just like to have a good time there. The I just like to have a good time guy has been tried over and over again in sports entertainment. There have been dozens of people who. They're just there to have a good time and nobody has a good time with them because nobody wants to watch that. At 10 o'clock at night after I've been working all day, I don't want to turn on the TV and watch somebody who's just happy to be there because I'm not happy to be there. I'm not happy to be anywhere. I'm unhappy. You know who is. Who's happy to be there? I love the idea of New Day because I love the fact that they're doing something with Kofi Kingston, I think he's an amazing talent. Xavier Woods, I think, is great and biggie, I think has the potential to be great. And the fact that you're putting them together and giving them something is like, OK, let's see where this goes. But it doesn't have it. There's nothing. What is it? What is it? How do you explain that to somebody? Well, there are three black guys who are baby blue and they have a good time. OK, well, I mean, so. You know, if you were sitting there and they were saying, Hey, we're just here to have a good time, and then they kicked the crap out of anybody who didn't want them to have a good time, or they were pretending that they were just being positive when in reality they were ruling with an iron fist. They were being tyrannical in their in their pursuit of positivity. If they were saying, Hey, we're just here to have a good time, and if you're not here to have a good time, we're going to tear your throat out. Then it's like, Whoa, what are we got here? These guys are sociopaths. They're acting like they're having a good time. But they're just violent human beings that I'm interested in, that I'm into. That's like what I was saying about Adam Rose, like Adam Rose is never going to get over in his current form because he's just a guy who comes out any parties. He likes to have a good time. Well, I'm not happy to be there, and the audience isn't happy to be there. Wrestling is an escape. That's why St. Paul was so great. Because I wanted to kick my boss in his in his nuts and drop a stunner on him too, right? That's why he works. People haven't changed that much. OK, and you can do it and next proves that it's not a matter of TVP getting 14 attitude era. You can do it without the language, without the blood, without the adult themes, because next puts on compelling stories every week without adult themes. You know there are themes that an adult can relate to, but you can a kid can watch next. And as a parent, you don't sit there kind of getting queasy. Because it's like, OK, but but you can find some entertainment out of it. OK, they have the talent on that roster to pull off if you're watching for for wrestling. If you want to see athletics, they have the talent that they have. What next he proves is. That if you can put together a compelling story and you can create rich characters. I mean, you've got a gold mine, but next, when you watch it storylines aside, like you could say, OK, well, they get to write they all they have to do is one hour a week. WWE Raw on Smackdown, that's five hours a week. That's the five next shows worth of writing. Go into one week of WWE writing. OK, that's ridiculous. WWE guys wrestle. Four to five times a week next. Guys do not. So you can't wrestle, quote next style. Four to five times a week without getting yourself hurt. So that's another thing that you have to realize that these guys are busting a*s four to five times a week. That's crazy. But. When you watch next. And I know it's supposed to feel this way because it's like it's the next thing. It feels hungry and thirsty, feels like they're trying to do something different and next feels like they're trying to make people talk. Monday Night Raw does not feel like they're trying to make people talk. Monday Night Raw feels like. Yet they're doing the show like we know what Monday Night Raw is. That's the show we do. Let's go out and do the show again. It's a great show. I watch it every week. If I didn't think that the Monday Night Raw show was a good show, I wouldn't watch it every week. I love the show. But it is. It's a formula. It's OK, we know how to do this show. Let's go do this show. And next, you watching you go, what is this? And that's what you should still be doing, I mean, Raw has been on the air for, you know, since 93. It's 20 years, right? But you still you just you I don't know if it's a matter of getting new blood in. I don't know if it's a matter of of of of changing direction, but you need to get people to watch in 2014 and go, What is this? This is incredible. What is going on here? Oh my God, I got to call somebody and tell them about this. I got a tweet about this. You know, I mean, to be the number one trend on Twitter, I guess it's a good thing, but Peter Pan, the musical was the number one trend on Twitter. People tweet about it. People love to make fun of stuff on Twitter. There's good tweets and there's bad tweets. You know, you don't you don't need something that gets hate tweeted every week, you need something that people are tweeting going, Oh my God, the stuff that I'm seeing right here is stuff I've never seen before. You know, and next year is doing something in the DWP, never did next is embracing. The past of the superstars that are in annexed. You see it all over the place more and more. Whether they're hiring people from New Japan, pro wrestling or from the American independence or whatever it is. Anybody that has a history in sports entertainment. Yeah, the names are being changed. The characters are being tweaked. But that passed that those guys have that they've been successful with on a smaller scale, on smaller scale. You know, avenues are being embraced and they're being tweaked and they're being used. I just think that the next feels like it's moving in a new direction, and that's the that's the direction. I hope. That Monday Night Raw and Smackdown realize that that's the direction because Evannex keeps putting out shows. That are as good as the one they put out last week. It's going to make Monday Night Raw and Smackdown fans fed up. That's what happens. And I mean, I guess it's all good. It's all one company. We're all working together, whatever. But you can't have people getting fed up with money raw because of how good annexed was, and that doesn't mean making it worse. That means doing what the brand split between Raw and Smackdown was supposed to do. And that means letting one feed the other. That means letting one rise up, push the other one. Let Raw say we can't let next be better than us. This is what's going to push us because next feels like something is pushing it like we don't have a choice but to excel here. Monday Night Raw does not have that feeling. It feels like money, and raw feels like we've learned how to be successful. Let's keep doing that. Next, feels like we have to eat or we're going to die. Let's get all the food that we can and that's what you want to watch. You want to watch the guy who has it all on the line. This is it for me. Not OK. I know how to do it. I'm just going to keep doing that. That's the difference. That's the difference as far as I can see it. Listen, I'm already overboard on the amount I wanted to talk. There's a lot more that I want to get into the specifics I'd like to get into. I guess it'll have to wait when I'm talking to Mick Foley. There's nothing that I want to interrupt in that conversation. So please, please send me some tweets at Not Sam on Twitter and at not same on Facebook. You can send me Facebook messages too, and I'll I'll address and answer some of your questions if I have time on future episodes of Sam Roberts wrestling podcast. Specifically this section The State of wrestling. Remember, take the survey. If you get a chance, go to Not Sam Gqom. There's a link on the Support the podcast page, as well as on the blog page. Take a It's a real quick survey. Maybe I'll tweet out the link tomorrow, too. It's a real quick survey. Be a part of it. And and it would really help the podcast tell your friends about the podcast. Tweet your friends about it. Put it up on your Facebook page. Leave positive reviews on iTunes. Click that five stars whatever you got to do. Get the word out because I want to keep doing this for you. I appreciate it. Hope you had a good time listening to this, and I will see you next week for another episode and remember it's the holiday season, so watch the I Am Santa Claus documentary. OK, it's on Netflix. Have a great day, everybody. Goodbye. Thanks for listening. Follow that up, Sam, on Twitter. Esther Graham, Facebook and YouTube. And subscribe for free to listen every week to say. Bristling.