We continue our look at the Darlie Routier case. Is there evidence of an intruder? Did Darlie have a motive? Sponsor: Athena Club: www.athenaclub.com promo code owls for 20% off
This isn't your average business podcast, and he's not your average host. This is the James Altucher Show. So I'm in Denver, Colorado for a very special podcast. We're calling it the podcast. So I have John McCaskill with me. John, wouldn't you say Denver is pretty much the capital of legal marijuana in the US? With all respect to Seattle, I think we are the Emerald City. Yeah. Why do you think? Because now there's, like, 29 states where it's legal in one form or other. We've always sort of spearheaded the the change. You know? I mean, I know how long it's been, medically available in California, but in terms of spearheading industry standards, social consumption use, moving into the rec space This was the was Colorado the first state to be recreational? Correct. Yeah. And and what what, from your point, did you see happen once you once Colorado went from medical to recreational? If you if you believe the naysayers, Colorado must have fallen into total havoc, and nobody went to work anymore, and everyone was high all the time. Like, what actually happened in Colorado once it became recreational? Well, everyone's still high all the time, but because we're so high elevated, we we really, helped spearhead the initiative that allowed, all of these other states to say, hey. This actually can work. Not just from a revenue standpoint, but through the infrastructure. And what we saw was a complete boom, real estate wise, tourism jumped through the roof. We have still over 1500 people a day that moved to color or a week that moved to Colorado, and that has grown the entire state. So was that different before it was recreational that you didn't have 1500 people a week? Correct. Yeah. So that's all changed, in the last, you know, 4, 5, 6 years now. So, it's really a boom for the neighborhoods, that have been here, the real estate market, of course. And this has really changed the landscape, for which all of us have been doing, down to this conversation, which we normally wouldn't be having. Right. Well, what about any negative effects? Like, I was reading some place I think I was reading in the New York Post earlier today, actually. They looked at the negative consequences of legalizing marijuana. Would you say and first off, just to back up a second, what makes you an expert? Well, I'm not. I don't think anyone really is. One one of the You are an expert, by the way. We've had conversations, you know, a 1000 times more than anyone I've ever spoken to. Well, thank you. Being being in and around and having been raised, my my family is a 6th generation Colorado family. So we've really watched this speaking to, you know, certain industries or neighborhoods or communities that have been marginalized by certain booms. We've watched that from the gold era down to the gas era, down to the weed era. Unfortunately, especially with, commoditization of housing and real estate, there's been a lot of groups, especially minority groups that have been marginalized, pushed out, due to inflated pricing, especially in real estate. And that has put a lot of pressures on, folks in communities to be able to substantiate being in that community. The neighborhood that we're in right now, Five Points neighborhood in the River North Art District, specifically, 10 years ago, you wouldn't wanna even walk through this neighborhood. And so what what happened? Well, a lot to do with, you know, real estate boom and a lot of other things. It started rolling into that, and I think cannabis was one of the really main drivers around that. So cannabis became legal. It suddenly became this multibillion dollar industry in Colorado with other states now legalizing it recreationally. And I don't even know. I guess California just, made it recreational and law and you and in Las Vegas, it's recreational. I don't know if all over Nevada, but in Las Vegas, at least, it's recreational. So is that gonna affect will will Colorado start to slip again? It has been. And, you know, you can't really stop the momentum once it started. A lot of folks that are continuing to come here come here for the reasons of, quality of life. The weather obviously is always a factor, education, and jobs. And that can follow through the oil and gas path, that can follow through the cannabis path, and all of the tangential things that happen around industry. And Colorado is gonna continue to do this. However, in cannabis, we're watching that number drop dramatically, and we're we're seeing, you know, a flattening of that marketplace due to other regions activating. Do you think do you think it'll like, do you think people still will come to Colorado as sort of like this was the first place? So I I still see, you know, marijuana tourism. Everyone says, oh, go to Colorado. But I guess they'll start saying go to Las Vegas. Well, yeah. And, you know, Vegas has a good, feather in their cap because they were they're the first to allow medical cards to be accepted from anywhere in the US. So that's a good reason. I'm a medical card holder. Now I know if I if I feel the need to go to Vegas, and I would go and I'd be able to get get cannabis for for, you know, the rates that they offer. And so so before we get into kind of the economics and the and the industry, why are they legalizing it? Like, what Why did they make it why was marijuana always illegal and alcohol legal? You know? From what I understand, you can correct me if I'm wrong, there's no toxic dose of cannabis, of marijuana. There's obviously toxic doses of alcohol. People die every day from from alcohol. And there are a lot of studies showing, you know, marijuana could be used to reduce anxiety, depression. Again, I don't know if how accurate those studies are, but it seems like there's hundreds of those studies. Why was marijuana illegal in the first place with alcohol legal? If you go back, nearly a 100 years, there was, back East Coast days, the paper industry was really the booming industry. They were the ones with the lobbyists. They were the ones in politicians' pockets. And, there was a one particular newspaper, man which name is gonna miss on me right now, but basically as as part of a campaigning stunt, in order to boost his own profits, he used, the what we know now as kind of the reefer madness, era. Really began the removal of hemp, removal of cannabis, and really he was trying to support pushing, alcohol to the forefront as well. And so that pushed everything aside and they they used, they being the newspaper industry in general, use these marginalizations marginalized communities, specifically, people of color, and pushing those folks away, so it spoke to immigration issues. So so let let me fearmongering around that topic. Well, let let me ask sorry if I interrupt. Let me ask, was so so hemp was being used to make paper, but he wasn't using this guy wasn't using hemp or his his lobbyists weren't using hemp to make paper. So and since hemp is made from the marijuana plant, he said, why don't we just get rid of this and throw it in with, you know, make it like a a drug that's dangerous or something like that? And so that kind of eliminated hit, you'll go crazy. Right. And so that eliminated competition in the paper industry. Correct. And but why was he pushing alcohol? Advertisements. At that time, we were watching the resurgence, really the resurgence of one of the most dominant, most powerful, and impactful substances in our country that we've ever seen, which is alcohol. I mean, outside of oil, we're gonna go there. But, so And then what was the effect on on minorities? Like, why did this where where did minorities come into play here? It's like this age old saying politically where you're looking at, immigration policies, fearmongering against, communities that are completely segregated, and, the folks that could afford to get those papers and were around that unless you were really in a major city like New York or something like that, you never saw people of color in certain areas. It was always a demonizing effect. And so that really helped us segregate, the marketplaces for But were were, people of color, smoking marijuana and white people drinking alcohol? Like, was it segregated along those lines? I don't think specifically, but if you look to the areas where the pulp industry was really going, strong, which was in the south, you you look at any of the areas, in the north area, we're still speaking about north and south in this day and age. You know, you're you're seeing those are majority and still today white owned businesses. And so you're looking at a huge social economic, standard. The anthropology studies that are out there are pretty specific about how, one gentleman in particular named, Mart Marty Otena is here at Denver University, probably the foremost expert on social social anthropology. Just check out, his podcast for sure. He's got some some great stuff on Denver Open Media. And and so so marijuana was made illegal. Now, a 100 years later, why do you think now it's coming up that it should be legal? Well, we're in a crisis on all on all facets here in this country. United States has had problems for the the last several 100 years, and now they're doing things. But the the the opioid crisis, which is now a crisis because it's affecting white communities. You're looking at the heroin crisis because it's now affecting white communities. And with the sharing of information, your podcast alone and as many hands and your ears as that touches, it's it's sort of an open marketplace and wanna have people that know the truth about what actually is available that isn't dangerous or toxic to their bodies, they're going back to what's natural, which comes from the earth. Why why do we demonize all of these things that grow out of the ground, but we don't demonize the things that are all driven by, marketplaces. So, like, for instance, compare tobacco and and marijuana. Like, it seems like almost a no brainer. Why is tobacco, which they they they even have to say, this causes cancer or whatever it is they have to say on the on the label, why is that legal and marijuana has been illegal? Does marijuana cause cancer as far as you know? Well, that's the difficult part. It's because they've made it federally illegal. Certain studies and validated, I'm using quotation marks, validated industries that support, the tobacco industry and basically make synthetics that affect your dopamine system, that affect your your your mental capacity, and also, you know, the the lung health that comes out of all this. So once the machine gets behind that, it's very difficult to get people to to kick these things. You know? Look at people trying to get rid of their car right now. I mean, they wanna get off oil and gas, but, like, good luck. And so the the hemp industry, the cannabis industry really has this tight core nucleus right now of this is how we really need to be growing this before big pharma gets involved, before big tobacco gets involved. Because the majority of the population that's out there that still believes the hype around meat reefer madness that hasn't had it be legalized yet. The second that the right lobbyists get in the right politicians pockets, we're gonna see unilaterally a descheduling of some sort probably within the next couple years. And as soon as it's available on the counter, people won't care what it is as long as it's being sold to them. So I think the important message with a lot of this is to continue the the the momentum and the education around how cannabis in all of its forms, not just the THC versions, but the CBD versions. And then there's hybrid versions. Right? There's hybrid versions that can, you know, affect things such as, they just passed, 2 weeks ago in Colorado. Cindy Sobine, is one of the major, cannabis lobbyists here in Colorado and in the country. She helped push forward an initiative that allowed CBD to be administered to children who suffer from epilepsy. We're having kids having seizures in the middle of school with it could be solved by just giving them something that's got CBD in it. And it 100% of the time is is is is working on on some of these patients. So I've read it helps, soften the effects of chemotherapy, reduces anxiety, it helps with sleeping, you know, as opposed to taking, you know, Xanax or one of these other pills that are very addictive. Is but but, and I'm actually I'm naive, so I'm just quoting this New York Post article this morning. It says something I didn't know. It says you could get potentially addicted to marijuana. Is that true? Well, I mean, there there's gonna be dopamine effects for depending on what people need versus what they're trying to get, that people are seeking high. Obviously, we know that if you smoke THC, marijuana, can cannabis, that's gonna get you high. You have to remember that the the the cannabinoid system is something that already exists in our body. It's like the vitamin c's, the vitamin d's, the vitamin b's, these are vitamins that are already in our body. They get excited by injection of certain foods. The cannabis plant is no different than this. So, essentially, what we're looking at is finding ways to explain this and educate folks on how this can be something that can work for them. But until the research has had has had in the in the way that we know the research around so many other topics, we're just not gonna know. And the the challenge that the cannabis industry has right now is being able to educate from a stance that most of the research that's been done out there, is coming from industry. And so there's a lot of disconnect in, you know, I think there's only one university in Texas, and the guys only been allowed to test one form of CBD or cannabinoids that are out there. There's, like, over 300 of them that exist, and we only know, like, 6 or 7 of them right now. And so there's there's things that if we know in the same way from a western medicine standpoint that we could put that research into, that's how we can find ways to help treat ourselves and use a true medicine that comes out of the ground. But what's your gut? Like, you've seen people now. You work in the industry here. You've seen people come in the in and out of these dispensaries for for years. What's your gut on the effects of marijuana? As far as for a social standpoint? No. From a medical. Medical standpoint? And given that you're not an expert on the medical side, you've seen a lot. Yeah. I've seen a lot. You know, the average age for most of these medical facilities is right around 37. We're seeing a lot of kids that are coming up that recognize the ability for the cannabis plant to help them in a certain way. And you've got folks that are hooked on pills, hooked on booze, hooked on something, and trying to find a way to lessen or remove themselves from this in a way that's gonna help extend their life and live a better quality life. So, from from my standpoint and what I'm seeing now, I'm very hopeful that, you know, that we're gonna continue to see that grow. What do you think about PTSD among veterans? So, like, 20 veterans a day kill themselves. And a lot of it a lot of these guys come back for more and they become alcoholics. Mhmm. Do do you see does marijuana have any effect on PTSD, do you think? Yep. We we just passed in Colorado, a couple months ago. As a first in this nation 1st in the nation to, allow for medical marijuana to be or PTSD to be on the list for medical marijuana, which seems like a no brainer for these vets that are going across. Arms, limbs, and brains, you know, in some way, all these combat vets are affected. We all talk about PTSD when we go through a bad relationship, but, you know, a lot of these guys are having, you know, things that they will never be able to unlearn. We actually just finished, 2 months ago working on a cannabis house first of its kind, cannabis health and wellness fair. We partnered with a group called, Weed For Warriors. There's a bunch of other derivations of this, but the Mountain State Medical Program is what it is now, that works specifically with combat vets and offering, free medicine, with support, from, you know, organizations like mine, organizations like Rhino Supply that we were just visiting. The the, Department of Defense is quietly, and I know this through some investor relationships, Department of Defense is actually working on high super high doses of, CBD to be administered, and this is no THC at all, because the CBD and the cannabinoid system is the only thing with express, administration allows for traumatic brain injuries to subside because it's the only thing in the I'm gonna get lost on the medical side here, but, it's the only thing that reduces inflammation. So, like myself, I look young, but I've got, arthritis in both my hands. Starting to use CBD personally, has completely subsided. Do you ingest it? Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And they've got oils. They've got tinctures. They've got edibles. They've got all the things that we do. So, now in in terms of the companies in the space, there's all like, if you were to guess, it seems like you have the tobacco companies on one side. They're gonna certainly take advantage of being of marijuana being legal. And then there's the pharmaceutical companies. If there's medicinal use, they're gonna wanna kind of patent the compounds or whatever and say, hey. We own this strain of marijuana. Do you kind of see all these like, you mentioned, you know, a couple of companies, including the one around the corner from here. Do you kind of see them eventually being and and a lot of these hundreds of smaller pot companies being acquired by these big, you know, behemoth companies? Well, I think if you look at the economic pressures that are happening, I mean, that's a certainty. I think lessons being learned in some regard and the companies that wanna stick to their values, you can look at something like the craft brew industry. Right? Just because Budweiser started, you know, in I think 89 moved to Colorado, and started one of the first what was then craft brew, experiences. Everyone said, oh, that's the end of the ability for people to do that. Where we're sitting right now is the densest population of craft breweries in the country. And each of those, is citeries, breweries, whatever it is. It's got different, health benefits, as long as you don't drink too much, typically, is a thing. And I would say cannabis is in that same regard. I mean So so, like, so so, like, a Philip Morris or some of these pharmaceutical companies could go in and buy a lot of the smaller marijuana companies, but some still will flourish, like, staying true to their their goal and their mission and maybe they see much more many more profits in front of them so they don't wanna get sold too quickly? Yeah. I mean, look look at something like the the quote unquote green revolution, you know, a couple but 2 decades ago, we all thought, oh, great. Well, it's just kind of been canned. It's a phrase thing at this point. I think cannabis is gonna fall into that way in some regard, and there's already a lot of, large outside investors that are putting money into certain branded things that, are are dispensaries, for example, or grow houses, for example. But eventually, they'll wanna sell because they wanna get their money back. They wanna get their money back. And, you know, there there's a misnomer out there that, like, all these pot shops are all making money. And they're just simply not. I mean, that they're taxed in an average rate in Colorado of 76 a half percent. So, you know, you didn't make a dollar, basically. And so as as the market continues to grow into other marketplaces, as you start seeing that that cost of a cannabis drop, you're gonna see a bunch of these shops close down or get bought up. And those that, you know, have good business practices and, you know, know how to do what they do, they're gonna continue to flourish. And do you see anything happening like like how Starbucks started in Washington and expanded to California and Oregon and then gradually expanded to the country and the world? Do you see anything like that happening among any of the smaller It's already companies? Yeah. It's already happening today. I mean, we can I I'm not gonna name names today, but, we can pick in a dozen of the dispensaries that are that are growing here? And those are the ones that first opened up in Washington, first opened up in in Nevada and and all around. Unfortunately, I think that's sort of the nature of the economic beast. It's just people are gonna wanna make money and get out or they're gonna wanna make money and wanna manipulate that. But it's really gonna come down to people being educated. It all will come down to education. You know, stop telling the kids that cannabis is evil. You know what I mean? These types of things. We don't see that from the alcohol side. We don't see that, although they put it, reluctantly on all their boxes, you see that on tobacco, but you don't hear a lot of this, what we grew up with, being touted that way for cannabis. And I think it's important that the education piece continues to to do that. Do you think it'll happen? I guess now that it's being made legal everywhere, more studies will start happening in universities. Yeah. I mean I mean, that that's it's gonna take a descheduling. At some point, a rescheduling or descheduling off of that, that, you know, right now, cannabis is looked at in the same regard legally as, like, heroin, which is ludicrous. Yeah. Like, when when, Colorado made marijuana legal recreationally, what happened to the people who were in Colorado prisons who were put in jail for marijuana crimes? They have not been aggressive at, rescinding those as other states are starting to do. To me big cost on the prison system. Well, it's a cost on the prison system. It's cost on the community. And if you look at the numbers, it's largely, people of color, percentage wise. And that has devastating effects, economically, socially, and culturally, and how how people are perceiving these things to be in this way. You know? Ohio is a great example. They've got this massive opioid addiction, but they've made it so difficult, to attain or get cannabis. People are still looking at it. It's like, well, that's just something these people do, pointing to people of color or different minority groups or different, cultures. Do you think Trump's for or against legalizing marijuana? Well, he has the Trump card right now, so it's difficult to say. I I thanks for coming from you. You know, I think that we we've seen a a mirroring type of political landscape with, the president currently, in that if you look at his past, leading up until the this presidency, pretty much everything that he said that he's gonna do is against what he was doing before. So he has said outright that he's not gonna pursue things even though the attorney general that he picked said that he was going to. And then probably his base is probably more for states' rights, which is so states legalizing things. Yeah. And then you look at the the political landscape and the states that, you know, he needs to garner support in. You know, one of Colorado's dirty secrets is that really the main driver here is oil and gas. But in order to win the state, you're not gonna push back against a section or a marketplace that's that's producing a $1,000,000,000 in tax revenue. And so these types of thing annually. Right? So, states most of these states are not, you know, well run. There's a lot of bureaucracy. One of the the kind of shining examples, whether it's intentional or not, the the Trump administration is showing that the the, the the the federal level, is is a fractured injured sort of worthless piece. And if you start looking at developments like cryptocurrency, realization that in education around cannabis and kind of coming back to the ground level and actually talking to our neighbors about this stuff. I'm hopeful that, you know, we're gonna see that probably descheduling or rescheduling happen sooner than later. Well, Ray, what's what's the name of your organization? How can people find out more about you and and what you do? Yes. Well, we are sort of creative supply shop. I am the owner and I call myself the custodian of Megafauna. We're located in Denver, Colorado. We work against, all things that are sort of mass produced, but we really want to make an availability for local creative enterprise and continuing to grow that experience, whether it's through sourcing, projects like this, throwing support and resourcing and kind of being that agent that's, you know, able to help, local communities and, in the creative space. And you're making a living doing it? I have been for 17 years now. That's that's excellent. Before it was legal recreationally, but it was legal medically. Correct. Yeah. Alright. There's been a lot of changes. Excellent. Well, thanks so much for coming on, the podcast. The podcast. The podcast. Well, I appreciate you having me on, and, it's been great to meet you. I look forward to seeing you guys. Nice meeting you. Thanks. Alright. Yep. Thank you.
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