835: E-Commerce Scams | Skeptical Sunday

Transcript

welcome to the inevitable. A podcast by motor trend. Hi there. And welcome to another episode of the inevitable. This is the motor Tren podcast where we talk about the future of the automobile, the future of mobility. Where are we going? How are we gonna get there? And also, what are we going to be watching soon? Yes. And today we have two very special guests from a movie that drops tomorrow. If you're listening to us in the US, it is the Grand Charism movie. And this guy here says it's actually really, really good. And we have, uh, both the inspiration for the movie uh, racing driver Jan Martin Borough as well as the director, Neil Blomkamp. And, uh, the latter is somebody we've been really trying to get on and talk to for a long time because, uh, we know he's a huge carnet and which makes this thing all the better because you have a huge carnet directing a movie about from a, you know, really the one of the most storied franchises in video game racing history, grand charism. And he made a really good movie. So let's get into it with yawn and Neil right? Here they come. All right, so let's welcome. I'm gonna butcher it. Jan Martin Borough Close close. And it was the It was the end and Bloom Camp Camp. Camp I. I was just doing that to mess with you. Actually, I don't mind it. You got it. You got it right. OK, thank you. One more time on just say say your own name, please. I'm going to say my name right now, OK, so for those of you listening, he's clearly not from around here. He's from Alabama or something like that. And then, uh uh, Neil is from South Africa, but you'll actually probably get more. I think it's Canadian in there. Yeah, Yeah, I was 18 when I got to Canada. So I I have I have shed AAA vast amount of South African but the vast. So we just said Vass was quite South Africa. It's It's a I I'm I'm a hybrid at this point. OK, well, uh, thank you for joining us a big day for you guys. Because tomorrow this is a this time to start here. Tomorrow, when this podcast After this podcast airs, uh, your movie will open in the US. This is the the broad in Europe. America. America is the 25th. Yes, well, that's it. This this podcast will go up Time to start. This will go up the day before. Um, so confused tomorrow in the US. Uh, which is the broadest release, do we say I don't even know that? Are we talking about the United States? I mean, the US release has has been changing basically daily with this film. So So all of I think all of America is, and I think including Canada is the 25th of August. I think most of Europe is the 11th of August. OK, so in the time you hear this, is there another window after that? That it's going to go like Japan? Japan? Weirdly, um, sometimes Japan lags behind. I don't know why, but it's coming out, I think mid September in Japan. And it's quite a Japanese centric film, actually. Yeah, which is like, Why wouldn't they go first? I don't know how it works. The movie business works. There's some very strange alchemy with, like, wizards and stuff, doing experiments to determine the release dates of films. So this is great, Because we've been trying to get you both of you guys here in some capacity for a long time. I've been dying to talk to Neil because we know you're a big Nissan. You're a big car fan and you've been a big Nissan is particularly GTR fan. I want to talk about that. But then, of course, uh, we've known about you. We've been motor trend. We've been tracking your progress you for a long time for a long time. So now the two have come together like peanut butter and jelly Because the grand charism movie which, of course, if you're a car nerd, you know, the big gaming institution that Sony PlayStation is built now coming to a theatre near you. So, uh, let's just get a lot of the the that part out of the way first. And then before we go into Indiana, how did this happen? Well, sorry. Sorry if this is how many media tour? How many have you guys done this A lot like together. Done interviews remember? Like the because of the S. A strike, the the way that the film is rolling out is is now not was what was originally anticipated, right? So it's it's been it's been vastly reduced because, really, the only people that can speak about it is Jan and and I and then Doug Belgrad, the producer and Assad from PlayStation. That's right, Um so it's it's it's miniscule compared to before. So we we had a European tour which got turned into just like a social media event in Barcelona because the both of us just got back from and that's it, really other than this. For those who don't follow Hollywood, there's a big writer. First start with the writers and now involves the actors and the actors who are in the movie, essentially can't speak about anything. So that's nice that you guys are actually able to do this because are you saying you wouldn't normally have done this this level of Oh, no, I would I would I would, uh, be on here any any day of the week, man. I. I love cars, so I wanna I wanna know how does OK, So first of all, um, we should talk about, uh, who you are. Uh, Neil. So you directed famously district nine. Um, that was your first kind of big movie nominated for best picture. It was the first feature film, and you do do a lot of shorts, Um And then So how do How does someone who kind of seems to specialise in alien invasion type things get to a video game movie? Well, actually, actually, the the I would say, the the step to video game film is very much in my wheelhouse. I think I think it's the non science fiction, um, sports drama. That's a kind of an adjacent side step, Uh, that that is not really something that I anticipated, even for myself. But I. I do have an obsession with cars that goes back a long time, and and what the the sequence of events was. I had actually written a film for Sony that was much more like what people would expect from me, which is a dystopian science fiction film that I still want to make. I totally love it, but we were waiting a long time for a very specific actor and there was a whole bunch of scheduling issues and stuff, and I was going to go off to go do something else, and they said, like hang on. Do you want to take a look at this grand charisma movie that we're doing? And I literally had no idea how you could make a film out of that title. It made no sense to me because obviously it's a racing simulator. So I was like, Well, I, I think I even said to the the executive, Peter Kang, who was who was handing it to me. I was like, I will read it just because I'm curious, like, genuinely curious. Like how you would even go about this, and immediately I started realising it was about Yan's story, and I didn't know about Yan. And I didn't know about GT Academy, which is kind of strange. And, uh, so it became this movie where the the video game was inside the world of the film, the way that something like Facebook would be inside the world of the social network. It's a it's a true it's a biographical drama, and I thought that was a hyper unusual way to make a video game film. And then and then, you know, I. I never I have never thought about really making a movie a supports movie and definitely not one with cars, and all of a sudden I was like, Why wouldn't I make a film about cars? I mean, I love cars, and these two things sort of merged. But the main thing, I think, was especially a After writing this very dark sci-fi film, which is very dark, I was thinking a lot about about sort of positive value, like what positive value do films put into society. And this particular story reminded me of movies like Rocky or films that I had seen as a kid that I found very inspirational. It's a different kind of inspirational to the movies that drew me into wanting to make movies right, like Blade Runner. But But it's a It's a kind of self, uh, self belief inspiration that that kind of I was like Actually, I want to contribute to that genre. At least one film, Sure, And, uh, that was the primary reason, really. And then I met Jan and I. You know, I just I think his story is is super, super inspirational and very cool, so that that's basically what happened. So let's pivot to Jan for just a second. So Yan, uh When did you first play this video game? Grand charisma, that is, like, you know, come to define your life in a lot of ways. Age eight. So the story is quite, uh, I believe in faith. And, um, there's a lot of sequences have happened that have led to this moment, which is very kind of, uh, if one went wrong or one didn't go to plan or like that, like it has done. I don't know what would have happened to now. It's very unusual. So I came across Grant Fresno, Um, when I was eight during a guy for bonfire night in the UK where a guy just tries to blow the house of Parliament. So we celebrate this every year. I don't know why every night. So, um, my parents had some friends across the street from us, and, um, I went over there, and instead of socialising watching the bonfire and I, I don't like I didn't like fireworks at the time. I didn't like loud noises. Um, my parents' friend had a PlayStation one and GT one. So I started playing that game in the in the living room I I played, um I had a I remember the car. It was a pink or a violet Mitsubishi 3000 GT around autumn Ring I the detail of of my memory of that point is really strange how kind of vivid it is. It was very unusual. Um, and then that the following day I would come home from primary school and always be at their house, Just going over there, playing it. So for context, Johnny, you were born in 1991. So he's eight years old. This is 1997. So you're old. Very old. Also the same year I moved to Canada and got a P one. It's hilarious. Like 97 97 is an interesting Yeah, I What did I do? I graduated from college, I think. Um, but, uh, did you have any interest in cars? Yeah. So at that moment, it was just matchbox cars, literal matchbox cars, which again was due to my family going over a friend's house. And they had a younger child the same age, similar age to me. And he had these little matchbox cars, and that was the first interest I had in any anything beyond spoons and peas, um I think maybe five. Yeah, just you go around in a pram of a spoon like that was my thing for years. But that moment was it was little Matchbox cars. And then I had them, you know, all the time and then finding a PlayStation where there was now cars I could see, which were I did never saw before I could recognise cars in the street. But you were crazy. I watched sports around that age as well, the fun of GT and then motorsport around the same age. I'd watch British touring cars mainly didn't what F one was. How old were you when you were watching British Tour around the age eight again? So it was that 97 98 99? Yeah, good time to be watching. And you found this video game and pointed out, I've been to Cardiff. Not a lot of crazy sports cars running around Cardiff. Um, so you're seeing like that's what's great about Grant. Theresa was like, Here's a way to, like really look, because they do such a good job even back then of like, the cars look cool and they look like, you know, the real sports cars. It was important to me at the time. Um that, you know, I could distinguish GT after AJ 89 or something GT to like a Sega game like it was important to me. That's what I'm driving like Not not an arcade game, but like real realistic driving. Absolutely. That was important to me. Even then, it was in just a variety of cars that they had on on there. So I was kind of expand. I was centre of that book. I'd watch on TV. I would play the games and then, you know, I'd had multiple PlayStation twos and 234 for all of them. Let me ask you, were you, um were you any good at the game? Like, were you naturally talented at playing the game? Or that took a lot of practise? Or were you like, Did you have any? And it's hard to say because when you're online wasn't a thing on PlayStation one, PlayStation two. So I was just playing split screen with my dad or my brother or some friends that I had locally in my street. I would go the slower car because but I didn't think. I just thought it was good. I didn't know. I just play for fun. Then when I had P S3 and GT five then the online thing started happening. Um and then I just I'll just play online. I never did Any time trials found it boring. I just like to compete and race against real people. And then I thought I was pretty good. But again, no context. Yeah, I never did competitions. I just play for fun And you never let me ask you this. Did the thought like I should do this in a real car? Ever come into your head or you're just like, you know what? I like this so much. And it's so realistic. I'm just going to stick with the game. Well, I guess when I was eight, I just knew the cars I love really love cars. But when I had a concept of what a job was maybe two years later, then it was OK. I want to do that because my dad from a very young age, which is another kind of seed planted in my head, which is which is, I think, got me to where I am now was, you know, he played football soccer for 13 years as a pro. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I saw the movie. Well, um, so you'd always tell me and my younger brother, you know, do something in life which brings you purpose and that you're passionate about when you're eight, you don't really understand what that means. But when you have a concept of what a job is, it's like, OK, when you're 47 you might not find out. 47. I'm 48. So it was cars from that moment onwards. So, um, you know, as I grew up, it's like I just love love to do this as a job. That's my thing. I didn't know what I didn't know you could do carting out. I had no idea how I was going to do it at all. I didn't know you could do Go. I call it go karting. Which car? I didn't know you could do it until I was 15 or 16 years old. Outside. I have. I have a It's funny. I have a six year old and he was He was talking about go karts the other day and I remembering back like when I was five. I wanted all I wanted in life was a go kart, but just my father had no idea how to get me into a go kart. Just none. I probably wouldn't have been that good, but like that's I just wanted to own a go kart when I was, you know, from And I used to, like, go look at riding lawnmowers because here's a small thing that my parents could buy me. They didn't buy me one, obviously, but like it was a motorised thing. So I was saying I was just obsessed with, Like, I love the idea of a parent buying the child a lawnmower as a substitute. Like I My dad didn't know what to do. He just didn't know. Take the blades off. He just didn't know about law. Racing is a thing. No, let's Let's let's pause just for a second on on Yan's story. So you because you mentioned having a you got your first P one, were you? You a gamer at all? Were you playing with Did you play Grant charisma early? I, uh, gran charisma was was not in my immediate wheelhouse my my thing was more more, um, shooters, you know, Or even back then with PS one, it was like metal gear, you know, it was that kind of game. And, um, it's kind of strange that I never really triple down on Grant Charism, given my obsession with cars, But my brother did Who's very He also has the same. There's a skill to it. I mean, you can't just I know I never I never purchased a proper rig. I never I always wanted to, and I just I don't know why I didn't. I mean, like, for example, I love, um I have a lot of radio controlled helicopters and drones and stuff, right? So I have simulators for those. And if you guys have ever seen those with with the same hand controls So I have I have other simulators, and it's like I don't know why I didn't get, like, the full GT set up. Now I do have one. Yeah, but So I was always aware of it, and I would kind of I would kind of flirt with it a bit, but I never I never properly got into it, which is awesome. and you went down again. This is me reading the Internet so it could be totally wrong. But you went down like a rabbit hole with Halo trying to get Halo made. That's what led to District nine, right? And and so I just wanted to ask this question, like was and I and I it it didn't happen because I heard Microsoft was again to the Internet like they were annoying about it. To put it nicely. Um, I think it was more. It was made by two very big studios. I mean, it was 20th Century Fox and Universal that were both co financing it and you. You sometimes films with just the way profits are shared and things like If it's not economically viable, they collapse. And then they're re reborn in some other construct. And so were you nervous when you know this is now Sony, another video game company is saying, Hey, make a movie, You're like, Oh, I've been down this road before with Microsoft. I was not really that nervous, to be honest, the reason I wasn't nervous was I mean, on on the political side of things, I was fairly confident it would get made it. You know, sometimes you can tell like when things are a little bit more, um, dicey versus where they feel like they they really need to make this film and the so that's one element. But my concern would always be more the creative side of things. And and, you know, as as a 26 year old on Halo I knew that had that film being made, I might have been thrown into a meat grinder that treats young directors very difficultly. Um, I did have an awesome producer that would have backed me up. But you you know, you try to protect your vision for the film. Um, and two studios would be Yeah, exactly. There was. There was a lot of like there was a lot of complicating factors with Halo, but with Grant Charism, the thing that's really interesting about it is it's the same response that I had when they offered it to me, which is like, Well, how do you make a film about that? Meaning there is basically no predetermined notion that people have for it. It's kind of it's a blank slate to some degree other than then you know it's going to be about cars, you know what I mean? Like where? With video game adaptations that have dense lore and story and characters, There's a lot of, um, differing opinions on how those characters of those stories should be portrayed in, and mostly from the fans. Is it canon or is it not Canon? Exactly true? I'm really not interested in that now, like because, yeah, I mean, there's there's, um you know, there's very good video game adaptations like, uh, the last of us. I had no idea it was the same. That's the same production company as this film. Yeah, because they're both PlayStation productions, OK, and then I won't mention them, you know? But there's some really bad ones and, you know, video game stuff that's been turned into a film. And, oh, there's way more bad ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, there's way more bad movies and good movies. I mean, that's just sort of the way it is. Um, but I know what you're saying. How there's because there's no lore. There's no there's not that like, but but then were you? I guess there is such a fan base for grant there Are you sort of banking on like, Well, you know, people grew up with this game like John. They're gonna just see it because they love the game. Or is that was that part of the the thought process? Well, I think your primary focus has to just be to make a good film, you know? So it's like it. Whether you know the game or not, the film better be engaging. And and again, I mean, you know, I was I was very clear in my own head about this idea of trying to make something that fell in this sort of rocky sports drama kind of zone that felt uplifting in the end, given a lot of strife to get to that point. So that that was the that was the unquestionable goal that I was going for, um, and so that that kind of organises things beneath it. It sort of it creates a bunch bunch of sort of subordinate categories of Yes, I want Easter eggs in there and obviously it's massively about cars. But as long as the audience connects with Yan and with what he's going through, you know, like that's that's always your emotional sort of anchor and this relationship between him and Jack and him and his father and how that relationship plays out and what he has to overcome as well. Which obviously it's all true, you know? Yeah, so yeah, so So let's catch people up. So this movie Grant Ribo debuts again tomorrow in the US. Um, it's directed by Neil. It's based on Yan's life. Johnny's seen it, Uh, in a preview. I have not seen it, nor has probably most of the people listening to this. So let's fast forward to Yan's life story. So we got, we understand, introduced to PlayStation and Grant charisma at age eight but then and born in 1991. So 2011, though, is like the pivotal pivotal year, right? This is when you you had entered, uh, Nissan and Sony had a partnership. That was year one year one was 2008. I think for GT Academy and this is the Grand Smo Academy. This is, um, taking the grand TMO game, opening it up the, uh, PlayStation three and online gaming and hundreds of thousands of fans around the world. As long as they have no professional racing experience can play online and the best of the best win advance and then become what, finish the story? Did they get a chance a chance to become a professional racing driver? So the the previous two years, I can't remember what the prize was. But my year The prize was a, um, a drive in the Dubai 24 hour race in, uh, January 2012. So in order to do that, you have to have a certain grade race licence, which is an international C. In the movie, it's depicted as, um, FI a licence, but it's the same same thing. So you have to do a load of racing in your well. For me, it was the UK in order to get to be eligible to do that, uh, to that race to get that licence and to get there, you had to do what you had to win at what level in GT a can, and on the in the game you had to, like, beat everybody in the There was three processes to the competition back then, So it was the top 20 from six different European countries. 90,000 people over 90,000 people entered that year, and then the top 20 would go through to the next round. Um, and then from the 22 would get selected to go to the international final Silt. And there's, uh, you know, 11 other competitors and the day I think we're there for a week and there's various competitions we do, whether it be in, you know, it was I drove a clear cup car. G two flew a plane, neurotic plane, loads of fitness IS. This is There's layers to I want to look back like they really that was the marketing element. It was kind of a test as well, because they they they land. No, I was doing a dog fight doing a dog fight with a Spaniard who was also in the competition. But the gist was, Look, we want to throw you in like, yeah, it's like I can't remember which play. It was like you have full control and barrels trying to shoot down a Spaniard. It sounds fun. So they wanted to put us in situations where it was beyond our, um beyond our limits. Comfort zones? Absolutely. And just to see how you handle even if you want. You know, none of us have flown an aeroplane before. But it was more how we handled the situation if you didn't just flat, you know, when you in a totally like now Now I'm thinking it's like it's like a just a room with a gun on a table. And there's just a guy with a like a towel over his head. Man, if that was in the movie, nobody would believe that there's no way you flew an aeroplane because people keep saying it now, But it is a crazy, unbelievable story to begin with. I mean it really, Like I found myself, like, not to give anything away. But, like, I found myself like a at, uh, when you go to the big 24 hour race in France, let's say I'm like, did that really happen? Oh, yeah. It did happen. Like that's crazy. It was cool, you know? Yeah, well, let me let me just get the set up here just a little bit. So when you beat out 90,000 people, right? Let me talk to me about that first stage like, did you go into it? Think he had a shot or were you again? I haven't seen the movie I. I did a little bit of research, but I don't. Were you Were you playing with a Did you have a steering wheel or were you playing with a control? Let me break it down. So, um, I the rig which is in the movie like Neil. There's a If you look for it, there's a in my room There's a rig which I'm using, which is my own rig I built it myself, and Neil modelled it in the Made a replica, which I'm very happy about because it was quite late on when I asked you to do that, which is cool. So that rig I made that in school during my A levels in design technology. I'd made that before that I just played on the the joy pad until I was 18 years old. I never had a rig because they were expensive and you made a rig. So you didn't. This is what do you mean made it? You didn't go off the shelf and get a four. You got whatever Sony had The Sony had their own. That was not very good just the frame talking about the frame. OK, so like the thing that you sit in with the seats and stuff, you have to save up for the Yeah, So the I had I was doing two courses during that year, two final exams and my parents incentivized me with money. So, look, if you get these grades, we'll give you cash. I'd already made the rig in my design technology class, Um, in the summer and when I when school started, I had eight design briefs to design this thing, too. But I'd already made it. So I kind of just picked the design something in an Art Deco style. So I just painted it in an Art Deco style, and I already made it. Um, And then with my results, I had £300 my parents gave me and I bought a fan turbo S wheel that because it was the only wheel you could use with all consoles and and PC at the time, which was which was important. You can put them right on the car. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And peak Bentley. And that was a big deal. The fan was actually video game. Uh, you know, that was pretty cool. Yeah. BMW the same thing. It's great. It's great. It's great. I love that. It's fantastic that hard, though, to go from because I assume you're using the the original PlayStation controller to shock to To the W is that hard? Well, the only reason I did it was the the is because I was bored playing with the joy pad. I want to take it to the next level. Um, and then you would have to go pedals as well. Yeah, Yeah, it was I couldn't. They had 22 different sets of pedals at the time. I think they had these really nice metal set or a plastic set. And I chose the plastic set because I couldn't did have enough cash to get them there, but those they were terrible because they kept on the potential. I kept on coming loose. So when I was qualified for GC academy for two weeks, I'm doing 8 to 9 hours a day and every hour the sensor kept on coming loose, so I kept having to open up the back and reset the sensor. It was it was the hardest part. One of the hardest parts of the whole process was just qualify. I should have put that in the film. Yeah, yeah, with the aeroplane. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, that's what I used to. And it's, you know, it's quite it's in there. That's that's fascinating. And and and it's funny was I was the same as you I. I had this real blind spot always for driving simulators and II. I raised Pike's Peak, uh, last year and you know, you have to sit there on a simulator and learn it. And I would post pictures of myself, like on the simulator. And people are like, Whoa, what kind of blah is that? And like more questions about the simulator than about, I'm like, so people really do care. It's like a kind of a you know, like as much as as I learned, as much as they care about cars, they seem to care about, like the the simulator part and it and it's sort of growing in in interest and popularity and oh yeah, and now I've actually I pay attention to them, and it's like the money you can spend on a home simulator is more than the car you own. I mean, it's wild. Yeah. I was also thinking of the price of what I paid for my first car and the I've just recently acquired a few years ago, right? It's talk to me just I'm curious. What? This? Because this is this is ancient history in the gaming space. Now this is way before twitch or or anything like that. Um, what's the smack talk like back then, like, Are you like you're running in call of duty for lobbies like it was, uh, you know, it's brutal. It's a bit different on racing games. I would say that it's not, you know, not like call of duty. Did you talk real time while while racing? And And but But you know what? The problem is because I checked this with Yan was that wasn't the case before GT Academy with right with whatever version you were racing before. GT Academy couldn't do it, and I wanted to keep it, even though, because the movie just sort of straddles it. Everything that he did was was the early part of the 20 tens, right? And then the film is is basically just contemporary on purpose. but, um but to keep it authentic, it was like this idea of exactly this idea of smack talk, which I really wanted in the film. I just I knew that he hadn't gone through that. That wasn't part of what had happened Pre GT Academy. So, like we just opted to leave it out, but it would have been pretty fun. Hats off to you. The respect Because there's this movie that came out about real racing starring Sylvester Stallone and, uh, where they're able to talk to each other. Like, are you talking about like, it's like 20 years old. It's 30 years, Yeah, they're like, Watch this. And also they're like, they're just like passing dudes like they're breaking off like, five guys a lap because all of a sudden they want to win, and it's like they're talking to each other. And I'm gonna do Jagger the bad guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I haven't seen that since South Africa. I need to watch that again. The the number of bad racing movies out there are also just the legendary. There's not many, but there's the Yeah, well, I mean, look, I'm gonna say, uh, just spoiler alert. This is a very good film, Um, and I And by the way, he's not just saying that because you two are sitting in front of him. We talked about this last week and he's like, Dude, it's really good. It's like he's like, What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go in there and I gonna tell them it's good. And you, whatever you do, your facial expressions are gonna go. I was. I was telling one of your PR out there, that literally on the elevator, up to the theatre. I was with a colleague from another publication, this movies and No, no, no. And and she goes like, Yeah, it should be pretty good And I'm like, Come on, like, how can how can how can a a video game with our movie be any good? And then I I'm halfway through. I'm like they forgot to tell the actors that they're making a stupid video game movie like they're taking this seriously. And then it it is the rocky story. I mean, it's it's incredible, so but I think back to Ed's question, you know, like you beat 90,000 people like you must have known you were good. You must have known like I'm gonna like I have a real shot at this. Or when Did you know you had a real shot? When did the ego start? I'm quite a level headed person. Really. And, um, I mean, don't get me wrong. My ego is massive. When I'm in a racing car, you see such a nice I'd like to get in the passenger seat and go around like a lot. He's like, It's the monster has been released. It's I'm very different. But, uh, so, uh, in real life, when I was around that age, um, of entering GT Academy, I just dropped out University. I was there for three weeks to do most of engineering. So my social status within the world is on on the on the floor, basically. And, um, I just happened to be at the right place right time, um, back in January or February 2011, and there was a new name G Academy. I've never done any time trials because I find them boring. I just raced online and my thought was OK. It's one car, one circuit top 20 go through the next stage competitions over six weeks. Let's see how far I can go. There was never OK, I want to win this. I knew what the prize was because I've seen the original advert in 2008. But had you, you hadn't competed in 08 or 908. Was it not interesting to you? I was doing exams in 09. It didn't exist because of the financial crisis in 10. I think I was doing my A levels and it just passed me by. I didn't just didn't come across or don't drop out the other way around. Well, if you're an elite level race car driver, you don't know it don't study. I was very lucky, but, uh, yes, So it was just to see how far I can go. This door was kind of a jar. I mean, what else do I have to do? I didn't really plan this gap here. I was about to take, and it just OK, let's for two weeks. Let's just see how far I can go If I can get to the next stage. And that was it got through to the next stage. The intermediate event won that got through to the final and again didn't think about winning at all until the last event, which was a, uh qualifying for there was four of us left and the winner of this 20 minute race around Silverstone be the winner of the academy. I qualified in pole. That was the only moment I thought, I have a chance not winning. But at this point you're off the the simulator. You're in the car. There's no after the the middle phase. There's no at the final Silverstone. There's no game. First time you drove Silverstone like for real. First time driving anything powerful driving. That's for real track. I mean, Silverstone is no joke track. I mean, that's it. And And it was that 3 50 it was 3. 71st GR Wow! Wow. But that it's crazy that so your first time driving Silverstone, you win the race. I mean, I won the race that was in the that was in the 3 70 with like, you just really good. You were just really good. I wasn't the best on day one because there was guys there during the competition that the movie Yeah, it was it? It was like that I wasn't the best. That was my. The other British guy, um, was a drift British drift champion drifting kind of like that almost seems like a cheat in a way, because to me, the whole premise of what GT Academy is and the fact that it's real like is is this idea manifest into reality that that the idea should be Take virtual Sim racers and put them in real cars and see what happens. So the the more you, the further away you are from only Sim, the more of a cheat. It feels like if you've been drifting like and you you really have an understanding of a car. Drifting is is like car control, so it's like it's a disproportionate advantage. I think for that for that racer over someone who's never really been in a car, but they can't go around corners quickly. I mean, that's kind of it's a little bit like that. You know, the karate like like in in in certain martial arts, where you stop like an inch before striking the target. And it's like, Well, that doesn't work, and it's like, Well, why can't I just choose to hit, like, another inch deeper. It's a little bit like that with drifting where it's like some of them, I'm sure, can choose to go around quickly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, But there is that This is wild to me that that's your first time racing is at Silverstone and you win eventually. Yeah. I mean, a lot of the guys had done carting Maybe not at the level which was made them ineligible for GT Academy. But they've done for me knowing this was I had no idea until quite late on the competition, what they've done, I'm like, Oh, cool. I kind of like, close to you guys and you've done a lot and they knew that I did nothing. And if I was up against someone who didn't do anything yet, they're competing in that kind of level playing field That would really hurt my ego. So I'm like, Cool, I'm kind of getting better and they kind of stay. I mean, I make some mistakes and stuff, but it's also I mean, movie aside, I'm sure it's also really great, probably from the the Nissan Sony side. They're like this guy, actually has no zero actual motor sport. It's it really makes the process of Yes, you can use this and with no experience be what you learn here can be transferrable like I am the the guy because that zero experience all I had was GT. Well, let's let's actually talk about that real fast because you're 19 when this is happening, right? So, did you have your UK driver's licence or what did you What did you take your test in? In, in the UK? It was my mum's car. It was a Hyundai coupe from 2001. Super powerful Super 1.6. Yeah, front wheel drive looked way quicker than what it actually was. The Yeah, Yeah, it was a manual. OK, so you not drive, man. Oh, yeah. I don't know. Like he's not American. Of course. The 3. 70 as you guys call them the Did you, um, Were those manual or auto, there was a mix, so we had no, No, because we had, uh we had some road cars there, and some of them were were also, but when they were in No, no, no, not in the race. Just the we used to train regular work for train. Yeah, but then in the race, we had the stripped out, uh, rock cage on, uh, instead of 275 rear section tyres. They were like 245 no non brown tyres, all manual. Why would they make the tyres skinnier? Because they were very difficult to drive. Really. And the The road, that is it's not that good on track to many laps. Whereas when they had the they these dead were kind of modified for the radio, it was slightly bigger, so they didn't overheat and just cost, I guess, because not not really Well, I guess around the corners. But, I mean, they were lethal things because they had no they pulled all the fuse out of them. So there was no There were 2 45 slicks, right? They were They were spec similar 555 hours or something like that, but they were proper sketchy. You look at any footage from the final from from that year? They look a little actually, is the answer. I like anything. So OK, so you you win. You're the man and you go in your first race and in the movie. There's, you know, the bad guy. Uh, who's like, uh, just a gamer. How much of that did you experience of, like so to my face? It's happened twice to my face. The other stuff, I don't know, but, uh, I mean, I imagine so, but I don't think so much about it. But I can give you an example by two examples because this person is based off a real a real person example. By the way, I love that too. He just perfect. Uh, my first race outside the academy was at, you know, I don't know. I never heard of it, but I've never kind of track. Really? Where, um F one used to test it way back. Anyway, I know. I know. I've never done that. You look very windy up there. Oh, rainy and miserable. But it's the best track. It's such a good track. You gotta do it. So get in my first race of trying to get my international licence, and, um, I'm having a conversation with some gentlemen. And then this guy comes over and he introduces himself as the Welsh sports car and saloon car champion of 2010. So I was like, OK, that's a bit strange. But anyway, he then starts talking and he says to me, Point blank, Look at me in my eyes Look, if you see me see me in your mirrors, don't fight me. Just let me go And you know, when you say you've never seen me kind of like angry or you got man like that just lit gasoline, My in a fire It was insane. I love it. I love it. He was the architect of his own demise. Yeah, that does that make it in the movie. Kind of the bad guy is pretty bad at the movie, so that's that. That's to my face. So there's been other stuff I'm sure, which has been said, but I don't pay attention to that. But the the second example I was doing in 2013, British Formula Three and um FI, a Formula Three in Europe, and I was teammates with a, um, a driver who came from a very wealthy background, which is fine, Um, but he was very when we're testing the Monza in preseason testing, like you would joke about how big his phone bill was, And my concept of money at that time is I'm still new to motorsports. So my status is kind of my What's the thing? You that, um and my concept of money I was a motorsport was was still very much how I grew up. So everything I'm not really aware of everything. And he was just joke here. And my phone bill for last month was £15,000. I'm like, Oh, just casually saying it. And they've shown us videos of him driving Daddy's. He bought Schumacher F 2003 car. He's driving just very great, but kind of an a*****e. Really? Um, that on track, we hadn't yet raced against his own track. But what is this guy from I? I don't want to guess, but we can guess later on, but he's from Northern America. So interesting. So no, he's not. I mean, Daddy's money is always very impressive, right? I mean, nothing impresses me more than how you were born, but there were situated to my face. There was nothing really said verbally, but on circuits during those years, um, there was no respect showed. I don't really just like people in motor sport really many people. But this person was very, uh I was my The racing on track was, you know, done in a way where there was no respect. And, um, if I was from a normal, uh, went to the normal conventional routes, I very much would have been Yeah. So I've been up a rouge on my role before on, um because of this, this person and that's where really the, You know, when I got asked by Jason Hall and one of the producers way back when I first met them and they're asking me So who who's your rival? And this person comes to mind because that's the only I I'm quite a chilled guy, But, uh, there's that person really is, is very prominent in my mind because of the lack of on on to my face. I don't care whatever, but when you're you, you're very. I'm aware I'm not immortal, but when there's stuff on track that happens because of egos, purely like if I'm racing against me, I would hate it. But I'm I'm aware that of my situation that I kind of already rub people up the wrong way because of my barrier to entry Into your to where we are now is £500. Pretty much. And yours is many, many, many more than that. So I'm aware of the sit back then where I'm trying to make my reputation build my earn respect. I don't expect I don't expect respect. I want to I need to earn it. I'm very much aware, but you have to cut your teeth. But I'm also aware of the behaviour against me. On track was not fair game. Really? Because of the background. Now it's completely receipts. But just for our audience, who might still be like, What did you just say? Uh, he said he he's been on through a rouge on his roll cage. So that very famous corner in Sorry roll, hoop, hoop. Sorry. Uh, very, uh, very famous race track spot. And that corner, they they might be redoing it. It's so fast, it's flat. So, basically, you're this guy you're talking about. Put you on your basically did a move. You end up on your roof and you're sliding sparks flying through through that corner. So, um yeah. Sounds wonderful. Yeah, it was very um, unusual situation to be going up there, 100 and 30 miles an hour in the wet and hitting the water already on, um and because this person didn't want to give up a corner while we were racing in the wet and then the journey in the medical car, I've never been I'm not a violent person. I can be violent, but you want to do things, is what you're saying. You were very upset, so it was kind of it was life threatening. It's that, like what stuff your face said to your face is it is what it is. You just deal with it on track. But when this behaviour on circuit where you're in a weapon, it's, uh it's it's different and and that's I mean, like, I was saying, like there's been a couple of deaths there recently. I mean, they they really are thinking about which would be, I think, a shame. But like you don't want people to die, but like changing the way or rouge is laid out to make it safer. So that's that's a tough place to crash in the world. It is. It is wet right there. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, that's based off. Um, a real real character. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, OK, very good. So in the movie, um, just again for the audience. How closely would you say it to the the reality with this, uh, of your life of your life story like, is it greater than 50% more than 75? I think it's it's surprisingly close to you. And I mean, obviously there's there's some liberties that are taken for sure, but it's like every from what he explained, It's like we really did try to keep a lot of it as close as possible. I think I think people will come out of the movie not thinking it's as true as it is. Yeah, and I found myself doing that. It it it It's one of the because I I like. I know you're not making a documentary, and I remember I remember when um, Ford versus Ferrari came out I. I talked with Mangold for like, 45 minutes and you know, because I said, well, you know, the people that are like, Hey, you know, he threw a 7 16 stre and everyone knows that was a 10 million or whatever. And he goes, I'm not making it for them. They already know everything, you know, because, like, you know, like, how do I put this like I know I feel like you like, uh, just being a nerd, like, you know, some of the things where you shot him at, like, I don't know, hungar ring or something. And it was supposed to be somewhere else, and I've driven both I. I happen to recognise that the majority of people watching never heard of anything, right? So it's true, right? You know, But there there there are You have to think in filmmaking. Sometimes there are decisions that you're making, which may be creative decisions in order to make the film more palatable or exciting to like a global audience. But then other times, they are financial constraints. So Hungar is a financial constraint, right? Like my what I wanted to do with the film was the movie doesn't have science fiction spectacle. It doesn't have like these these these massive sci-fi concepts. Um, so one thing that I felt like it it did we could lean into was this feeling of like it being very global and international. So I pushed very hard to make sure we went to Dubai and Tokyo and Nurburgring and Slovakia and Austria and like everywhere else. So I pushed super hard. That must have been a big fight because yeah, yeah, you're pushing the outer limits of the budget, right? Because they're like, What's the difference? I think, yeah. I mean, the way to think of it is producers, like, theoretically, directors and producers both care about the movie, and directors are weighted more to to the creative elements of the film About the yeah, and the producers are weighted more towards keeping it financially on the rails. You know, it is always a tug of war. So, uh, the example that you give is I lost the battle to be able to get to Silverstone. Yeah, I. I won the battle with many of the other tracks, so yeah, so it's so that that's I'm just identifying the two different kinds of of of issues that you might run into, you know, and it's like sometimes you want to do things, but you've actually just pushed the budget to the point of and again, My point is that people that would notice is such a small percentage of the people that would be. But you want, you know, you want it to be as authentic as possible. I mean, we also couldn't shoot at Lamar. Um, I. I don't know if any film is ever shot at LA other than Steve McQueen. Well, I know, I know. Um uh, Ford versus Ferrari. Lemon was like part in Georgia. I mean, it was in for us. It was made up of four tracks. I mean, one part of one part of LA for us was an ex Soviet military base, you know? I mean, that's so but but yeah, we we you try as you try the best you can. And and, you know, for example, you did great. I was just at LA I look, and I just saw the look, The pits, the pits look really good. Some of the turns, obviously are not the same. And, uh, but you do the best you can, right? Right? Right, right. No, it was it was cool. And and And the one, I mean, I've I've actually, um, filmed on the never and so I was impressed that because the way they do. It's 100% real. Yeah, the But like the the part where, um you know, and, uh and David Harvard's character, what's his name? Jack, where they park on that corner? Because the way we pay for it, Just so you know, it's like ?1500 for 15 minutes and like, you guys must have been out there for a day doing that or more. Um, so that's that's impressive that you want. We could have been a corner anywhere and some of the Yeah, but But it it couldn't be, though, I mean, for the fabric of the movie. We had to be there, but I was I was like, Oh, I've been there. I stood there. I know I know where they are flood plots. But you know, the thing is, by the way, also that GT three RS is pretty sweet. Yes, it's a very cool car. Well, that that was the first time where I was really like, Oh, this isn't 2011 they contemporary, because the cars were a whole bunch of weird stuff would have happened if it was if it was time authentic, and I mean That's an example of, you know, category A of, like, making a creative call. That's an example of that Where it's like, Well, why wouldn't I just have newer cars? Why wouldn't the graphics in GT be newer? Why wouldn't it all be newer? Totally. So it doesn't affect the makes no difference to the to the story. You're making a movie. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah. And people. I mean, you know, look, we could we could hammer this point. But, like, you know, Herzog has talked about that forever. Where? You know, you know, like, yeah, little dieter needs to fly. He had the guy doing a bunch of weird O CD behaviour that he faked because he's like, I'm not making a documentary. Um, even though it's a documentary, he's like, you know, it's It's the ecstatic truth versus the actual truth. And so, yeah, that's that's an impression. Yeah, and that was I mean, yeah, that car parked in that corner was a very cool scene. And this is yeah. Anyway, it's emotionally powerful scene. Yeah, for sure. And that that was that true to life? Like there was this moment that didn't happen at that in real life at that corner that because you can't get the next day coming from where I was in hospital in Germany to go to do that. But it was a pep talk. Yeah, it did happen. Maybe a few days later in Wales, actually at with a, um, with another a race team. I was racing for that that year as well, So it would have been in GP three. It would have been Carlin team I was racing for back then and similar situation where I need to get back in the car. I need to get back in the car because of, um I don't know what I I I've already come to a decision that I want to do this. Continue to do this. However, I still need to be strapped in. I still need to get my helmet on. I still need to feel like in that space where you are, It's claustrophobic. And I didn't I didn't know what the effects would be. I need to get in the car as soon as possible just to see if there is any. Anything you can do if you're If you're lost in listening, just, uh I know a little bit more about the story than maybe somebody who's coming as blind. There is a moment in Jan's life story that's also depicted in the movie where a horrific accident happens, and we're talking about sort of the, uh, the after effects and the getting back in the car, uh, moment there, so we'll just leave it at that. For those of you a great drama, it was, Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's his. His life story was sort of written in this three act structure. Um, that was very conducive to making a film, but you you have to be super respectful. I mean, I tried to not push you on on that. Obviously, I mean it it very personal thing for him. You know what What I tried to do is just keep it as authentic as possible to to the video footage that existed and just try to be honest about it and just let it play out. Um, so you know, I there there's I've never made a biographical film before, and I and and I think any biography probably is going to have some very personal, difficult stuff for whoever the person it's based on is, you know, is going to be portrayed in the film. But I thought it rang true because it was a really wonderful human moment. But also, I know, race car drivers where they are able to just go do it again. And that's a That's a big part. I think of being a race car driver. Like, you know, I spent a lot of time with, uh, Randy Pobst. I remember one time I was sitting in the passenger seat and he crashed real good. And then 10 years later, I was like, Remember that? And he goes, What crash? I'm like No, dude. The BMW flew 300 ft off the track. I was like, No, we didn't You know that That's different, though, Like, that sounds like he was. He is the ability to, like, put it out of mind. And And I don't feel like that's what's happened with, though, Like it's different with this because of of what happened, who was involved, lost their life. So, um, for me, I can't speak for all race drivers, but, uh, for me, as long as I know what happened when something happens and what I could have done differently. I can then move on. I don't forget, because if you forget, if you just ignore it and like it didn't happen and that's the same thing happens again, then you're in trouble because then you don't know how to fix it. Fair point. But I've had, like, you know, I there's there's this road Angeles crest here where I drive, you know, usually once a week and you know, But now I mean, it's maybe old age, but I'm like, Oh, yeah, that's where that guy flipped. That's where so and so died. That's where I hit the deer. That's where the motorcycle went off. You know what I mean? Like, I just see ghosts as I drive up, but I think I think race car drivers are able to like like you know what I mean. It's for me. Racing cars is my purpose. So there's no when I get into a car. It's not like, Yeah, it's not like I'm I'm fearful, but I fear, but it's not like, Oh, what if a wheel comes off now? You don't have mechanical failure, But there's also an element with that crash though that is like I don't want to say it's unfair to you. But there's an element of bizarre physics and aerodynamics that is like it's not a normal crash. It's a very unusual situation, you know, And like him, him saying like, What can I have done different? There's an element of chaos in that that is like an uncontrollable element that I think is to some degree, like unfair to the driver. And they've changed the track since then. Yeah, so it goes to show, you know, And it kind of like with the rouge, Like, you know, sometimes it's, you know, it's chaos. Plus, uh, not the most ideal design for you. Well, it just just certainly made me come off the back of that say, with my family and, uh, you know, we'd always say to each other now, before we leave to do something, your phone call. It's like we always say, I love you more. Just off the back of that, I certainly become a much more, um, aware of how fragile life is. Fear has stayed the same. This obviously there's always fear, but it's not like it's got more, but I'm just aware of how mortal we are, But I still love what I do. And I'll still push a car 100% all the time. Every lap. That's the difference in a pro and people that like to drive fast so pretty, pretty heavy difference between the two of us. Yeah, heavy stuff. Let's, um, let's go again. It is It is not just a video game movie like it's it's a really there's a I. I just was not expecting it, you know, It's II. I really was. I went in like I literally in the elevator up like there's no way this is gonna be good. I'm gonna put that on the poster that literally There's no way it's gonna be good. I said to I said, I literally said, I'm gonna call the marketing department right now, OK, so let's talk about some fun stuff. So but yeah, and you are also a producer and also stunt driver, right? But you did. You did some of the stunt driving like you may be credited as an exec producer did. I don't know. I could be wrong, like the credits kept changing, but stunt driver stunt driver tell us who was absolute crap at driving. Who is like you guys? Oh, my God. The actors, like, just put them, Put them on. I can give you a, uh, a question. So there was, I think, over 25 stunt drivers on the on the movie. I'm just kidding. Some from America, some from the UK, some from Hungary, And, uh, during those those days, we had none of us crashed on the stunt guys. Yeah, it's because we we going, you know, we we all loving it. And but there was there was a shunt. But it wasn't to do with the stunt drivers. It was to do with one of the actors. Could you guess? You have a guess? You you just said, Amelia, because we have had Amelia here on the podcast, and we know we know her. Well, thank god. Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty good. I don't know. Uh, it was a harbour II. I wasn't, uh I don't know. Come on. Orlando Bloom. Who, by the way, he's he's so good in this movie we mentioned, like, one of the biggest stars in the world. He is a good little weasel, but yeah, So There was some time that we had down. I think, um, are you gonna get in trouble for outing him? This is great. We started it like if there's a legal disclaimer or something, I could sign that. Yan began the discussion. We have tape, tape and video as he's walking towards me with his helmet. There was some down time. Let me let me give the back story to this moment and then you can continue. The back story is Orlando. From the moment he signed on, he was like, I got to drive the car in the movie and I was like But dude, it's Young's story and he's like, I I just because he's really into cars as well. He's like, I got to drive a car. I got to drive the car so they eventually. Yeah, you guys should put him on here Eventually, I was like, Let me write a post credit scene with you with the car. OK, so he's like, OK, awesome! Done so because that's how much you wanted to be in the car somehow in the movie and it's structurally in the In the design of the story, it made no sense, so it had to be like a post credit thing. So I wrote the scene he was down for. Well, he was enthusiastic about it. And then the producers are like the stunt department has to certify him, obviously, right, because, like everything is safety safety first. And there's insurance. Yeah, so I'm like, OK, cool. So then I go off to go set up another shot and then he walks away with the stunt department, which is where Young picks up. OK, so he's walking towards me. He's got his race suit on and he's got a helmet in his hand and he said, Oh, I'll show you how it's done Just casually pass in a comment. I'm like, OK, cool. What do you guys, What are you guys? At this point, it's GRS, but they have the diff taken out the front axle, so they real drive and a GTR road car with rear wheel drive. It's not a to do that, either, not at all. So we use those as during the GT academy scenes, and, uh, we they drift like crazy and hungar. At that point, the day was quite damp, and and, uh, it was quite damp. One of the instructors, he's with the instructor that he was with. I love Nicky Faulkner. Hang on real quick. He bloom Is British. Yeah. I mean, so they can drive in the rain. Every British person I've ever met is not. We're giving him excuses. I think Orlando could actually probably be a good driver. It was just the way that it played out that he's very He's got great taste, you know? He has a you show me. A week later, he's not 11 tour and he's ordered Fantastic manual. Great. Anyway, he says that comment. I'm like, yeah, right. Oh, nice one. Enjoy your enjoy your time on circuit. 15 minutes goes by and then I see a truck come through the pit lane with a tar in with a car GR. And I'm like, just thinking, OK, cool. I'm getting ready to go out and do some stunts because we're finished now. And, uh, Steve Kelso, the stunt coordinator, says, Oh, well, there's some cones out to turn five. I'm like, Why he Orlando put the car on the wall and he said it so casually. I was like, What? Put the car on the wall. My, my The version of that to me was the shot that I said. I went to go set up. I was just dealing with cameras with a parked car with a bunch of crew and all all the radios. The crew just start going. It's like just it sounds like, you know, it's like Irene in Black Hawk down or it's just people are like running. And then the Matt Hirsch, the producer comes out and he's like, sort of ash and white. And he's like Orlando crashed. And I was like, Holy s**t! And then the flat bed, like saying, like, pulls up with his smashed GTR or the passengers seat, you know, like like a normal crash. How the tow truck driver drives you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. He's not gonna walk. So how bad? How bad is the car like? It's, like, just completely taken out like No, no, no, it wasn't. It wasn't written off. It was like, sort of. I don't remember if it was the left or left or right, But it was the front wheel, uh, sort of quarter. The front quarter was crushed in so under brakes. Nicky Nicky Faulconer pulled the hand brake because Faulkner told me that he he's Jeremy Clarkson's stunt double. And, uh, Jeremy Clarkson has a stunt double. You may have to edit that part out. No, it's common knowledge. I know Ben Collins pretty well. Um, so that so he had a instructor in the car with, um and Well, Nicky told me he pulled the hand brake, but But again, I I'm not like, you know, I'm a fan of Orlando, like who knows? But this is trying to He was trying to certify in the scene, which obviously didn't happen. The scene was like that. He said to you like, let me show you how it's done. That's why I mentioned it because that's just unfortunate. But he said it was like, OK, cool. Or Orlando also filmed his own iPhone footage after the crash, which I need to get my hands on. She was like, Yeah, OK, and if Orlando if you if you end up listening to this podcast, we would welcome, we sincerely welcome you on to defend yourself. He's a legit car lover. He would fully be on it. We are impugning your character, perhaps unfairly but you're welcome to join us. And dude, if you brag and then crash immediately, that's that's the best. I love it. That's so, um, have we Is there anything we missed in terms of talking about the movie? What other people should you mentioned? Easter eggs are there. There are some Easter eggs in this that people like. There's one very bizarre, um, elements of the film that How well did you know Dave Perrell before the movie? Did you know him quite well. So this is this is kind of interesting, like my, um my brother, who lives in in South Africa. Still, uh, he he had friends in Johannesburg. He's I think he's, like, five, about five or six years younger than me, and and, uh, he had friends over. Um, when I I probably was about maybe I was probably 15 or 16, and, um, one of one of my younger brother's friends was I was actually sketching. I was doing these like science fiction sketches as a kind of 16 year old, and he asked me if he could keep one of them, and I remember this. He was like, I really like this drawing can I have it? This is like a 10 year old asking me for it. And I was like, Sure, dude, here I have this right. And, uh, that was in Joburg in, like, probably like 96. And then I get this email from my stepmom at the beginning of prep for for Grant charisma. And she's like, Hey, one of Kelvin's friends asked for your email. Do you mind if I pass it on to him? And I was like, OK, sure. So I got this email from David Perrell, and he's like, Do you remember giving me this sci-fi drawing When? When you know in your dad's house. And I was like, I vaguely remember this, But like what? What's going on? Why are you emailing me? And he's like, I own a SIM racing school and I raced. And he's like, I think that I should be your on set, um, realism consultant. And we were looking for one as well because we always thought that would be like, very story centric. It would be about his life, you know? So I was speaking to other Lamar races that had done, um, that would just be on set 24 7 because I don't think we knew how long was going to be on set with us. And, uh so we I mean, how bizarre is that? As as a way for David to join the production world. Super small. And And he moved from Cape Town. He went from Joburg to Cape Town, and then he went from Cape Town to London to pursue, um, a career in racing. And so he was on set every day and then, um, and then ended up having the same amount of time on set and and awesomely began driving, you know, stunt. Doubling his own car. So Perrell often was with me at the monitors talking about the realism of, like, even how wheel changes happen. Or, you know how how, uh, races would do XY or Z or whatever it might be and and then, uh, would do that as well. But I would also have an additional layer with Yan where it was about him specifically obviously, um but yeah, it was pretty. That's I mean, that's on an Easter egg in terms of GT. But it's a very strange history for someone to you know, be involved with the film, and he was unbelievably helpful. I mean, it it was for, you know, uh, the movie also. Three hats, of course. My name, gaming industry Grant, and also racing drivers. And you have those people in the racing industry where they they know everything about the rules. So how many people are allowed on a car to do a pitch? Stop change, mechanic wise all that kind of stuff. And David was was the man for that or anything that wasn't all that needed to be authentic for the sake for for motorsports, that he was the guy and he was brilliant. He was absolutely awesome. So, yeah, it was great that your your dad's car, which which in the movie was a right Was that an Easter egg or did actually have a karate? Yeah, I chose that very specifically. Um, but I did check with you, though, but that car was a much better. My dad's only had one cool car. What was it that pay you 30? Nine G. I OK, that's pretty cool. Did you pick a car? Because to me it meant something. Like when? When? When I was like I would imagine. I know. Yeah, I know There were. You know, getting getting some of the cars in Eastern Europe was a bit difficult. Um, but I I was very specific about pretty much every single car that you see in the movie the Cardiff scenes that was filmed in Hungary. Hungary. OK, so I want to ask you something. Sort of rudely. So you were very specific about the cars? I assume this is just like one giant long Nissan commercial. So you're saying there's other cars in this other than Yeah, Yeah. No, there are. There are definitely other cars. I mean, you know, from from picking the GT three cars as well, right? Because most of the film is about GT three racing and bad guy is a Lamborghini. Yeah, it is actually pretty sweet. Do Down on the gold was a good move. Um, but no, Like I. I wanted to sort of pepper scenes with, like, I'll give you an example. The intro to the movie the way that it starts is polyphony, which is the real life game creator that made GC testing cars on tracks. And I spoke to Cousin no about this. And it's like the way that he described it was they benchmark, say one out of 10 cars they take on tracks to actually legitimately feel them. And and once the parameters physically are set for that car, they can extrapolate it to another car and dial the settings up or down. Right? So they they But they actually physically benchmark, some of them. So I could have done anything I wanted there. And I wanted a generation one NSX and a 2005 4 GT. So it's like this. It's this kind of thing. And, you know, sometimes I won. In that case, I won. We got we got one car was from Hungary and one car was from Austria. There were actually two NSS. Um, they were both Austrian, Um and then, like a super small scene would be David Harbour walking out of the restaurant when he decides to quit the team the villain team and join the Nissan Academy team. I put a 1991 Diablo. Yes, yes, yes, I remember that. I remember there was. It's darkly lit as well on purpose. You know, it's like that kind of thing. So I wanted to just pepper stuff everywhere throughout the movie like that. But it and the vehicle the vehicle team in Hungary, it's like they probably got so sick of me because, like every day I'd be like we kept expanding outside of Hungary further and further. And I was like I wanted an A A And I wanted to be testing an a a downstairs in polyphony for sound, just like which you still own. No, I don't own it anymore. Like a moron. I sold it like, hurts my heart you're talking about but in your net worth You should have kept that. I know. I know which has a very, very, uh, 10, 10, 5 litre. So but, uh, you know, like I wanted a 1 90 Ivo, uh, Mercedes Benz like that's a kind of a weird car to want, but we managed to get one of those so that that scene where they're testing the cars um, it's like I wanted that I wanted an R 34 GTR that we did have in there. Um, I love it. So this this is actually this is my clever way of asking you to sell it to car fans in general because the assumption is if you've heard anything about GT Academy or PlayStation, you know, Nissan plays really heavily within this theme. But this now has This is for all car lovers. You're going to see a bunch of stuff, but he doesn't love GT. RSI was only GTRS like That's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it definitely expands beyond the GCR for sure. And and a lot of that I think you feel a lot of that in the race scenes. Um, which are GT Three cars. But the the GT three Ferrari 48, is is I mean, I love that car. I love the Audi R eight GT three, which he's competing against. The actual GTRGT three is really cool. Yeah, And by the way, for anyone who is thinking it's like an infomercial for either Sony or or Nissan, it's not I mean it. It's it's a it's a that was me projecting. Yeah, yeah, no, it's I. And again, I sort of thought it would be that, too, and, you know, like, you know, like buy a PlayStation never meant nothing like that's ever mentioned. It's, uh, racing naturally has a tonne of product placement in it and it's like I feel like it would be unfortunate for the audience to watch it and think we were advertising something every film that I've done. I mean, I haven't made that many movies, but as I get more experience, I realise that product placement has essentially failed me every single time. But like it's the opposite of what people think. People think. You you put like Coca Cola here on the table and they give you, like, $80 million. It's like That's what I think. OK, so the way the way it actually plays out is creatively. You go. Hey, you know, I think it would make it more realistic if we had coca-cola on the table here. Can you try and get it? No, they they they they're not interested, really. Oh, really? Sometimes you end up paying them, so most of the time you're actually like paying the brand to, like, have it in the film, and then when brands come forward and they're like, we want to be in the movie, you don't want them because it it doesn't make sense for the film right, and it's like they're trying to force their way in this one. We had a few brands that were very helpful. That made a lot of sense. Like Michelin Brembo breaks interestingly, Makes Sense Makes sense. Nissan was a really good partner, but generally speaking, it's not how it plays out. And my I felt like what I wanted the photography to look like was super realistic and grounded and and never in in, um, Digital intermediate or D I in film is sort of like your colorization process, right? Like when you sit once the movie's done correction, you colour correct the whole movie. And I wanted to basically not, I want I wanted the audience to not be aware that that any colour manipulation had happened. In other words, what the cameras rolled on was authentic to what they the audience would see. And my thinking was that the production design of the movie would have saturation in it. Naturally, like we just spoke about the gold Lamborghini hair can, because racing is colourful right, and it was the brand placement was the same thing. It's like it's part of the fabric of racing. I mean, just to just to tie it together. Like, you know, you were saying Michelin, you know, I was just at Lemon, got down in the pits and like when there's a pit stop, one of the five people that can walk out to the cars is a Michelin guy who looks at the tyres to make sure everything's OK. You know, like he's literally in a fire suit with a helmet. It's a Michelin guy like there's nothing more authentic to lemon than a Michelin dude. You know, the Michelin. So yeah, that's that's that is good product placement. And I always did think it was. They handed you $80 million for the Yeah, No, that's, that's, like never happened to me and I I I've always been crucified for it. It's so irritating. I should do like a mediaeval film or something, you know? So my the the urge to put Nike on like the knight riding his horse is just obliterated, so I don't have to deal with this anymore. They still probably suggest that, Yeah, like in in Chappie. I put a bunch of PlayStations that were net networked together in in order for him to build this model of consciousness. And I took that from the from the 2003 invasion of Iraq, where Hussein was stockpiling PlayStations. He was stockpiling, like P SPS three S or something, or PS two S because they were Daisy chaining them into supercomputers. Oh, really? Right. And it's like, That's where. So then people are like, Oh, it's perfect placement for PlayStation. It's like it's not where the idea comes from, so I want to be. But you never want. You can't explain. No, you can never explain it. And it's like, you know, the film has to speak for itself and, yeah, I mean, whatever. No, no, no I. I love I mean the the I love filmmaking. It's fascinating to hear all that stuff. And again, I think people really do think it's just like, you know, they're handing you a check. It would be awesome. That would be amazing. So is there anything we missed in terms of getting butts and seats for you guys for this? Because I do want to move on and talk about some fun questions about you guys personally and how you got here just in general, like anything else. I mean, I don't think so. Unless unless I mean again. I mean, like, I mean, you know, uh uh, David Harbour. We should talk about him for two seconds, because again, like, man, was he good, man, Did he take this? Serious people would know the name if you were a big fan of stranger things. For for he was for much of much of the series. He was the sheriff protagonist in there. Yeah, he he he was awesome on multiple levels. I mean, he was very obviously the only thing ultimately that matters is is the performance right at the end of the day. But he was also he was also very cool to work with as well, which is like, an added bonus. But he's just a very, um, thoughtful and precise actor that would do a lot of thinking about how he was going to portray the character and, um, and did exactly what we had discussed. You know, every time the cameras would roll, he would just deliver precisely What? Yeah. So what? What's interesting is that you know, the story is obsessively about Yan's character, But you know that when you sort of like, he's gonna be a race car driver and, you know, hopefully win. Whereas like the Harbour character really had the most like development. Like he's kind of this, like I think I think I think has been both of them do. But the thing is that you know that young will where I think that you're surprised by, oh Harbour is like there's a real arc to him that maybe you're not anticipating and you you kind of fall in love with him by the end of the film, like this guy is cool. You know where he's really this prickly, washed up jerk at the at the intro? Do you see yourself in him, Johnny? No, I'm still a watched up jerk because there's some redemption. So, I, I Yeah, he he really to me stood out. I was like, Oh, wow, because you know, he's a guy from stranger things. Yeah. I mean, you know your summary, I think of of saying how just God awful the movie would be in the elevator on the way up is is in a sense, it's kind of good news, because what the way that I always thought of grand charisma was people would probably go into it with an assumption that it is. It is. It's going to be thin as a video game film. And to me, there was there was two elements that would make it emotional. The one the one place would be that because his his dad I love one of my favourite dad was amazing. So hug. Come on, son and his father, and then ya and his surrogate father. Right? Um, this sort of emotional triangle, I felt like that that could actually be quite emotional for the audience. And the second thing is the actual this reason that I signed on to the movie at all, which is this kind of uplifting sports drama, Rocky que feeling that at the end of the film, you have this real sense of accomplishment after what he's gone through and and and the summary basically is, I think the movie might be more emotional than people are anticipating way more. I mean, like, III, I cried like, twice. I think I'm a crier. But I mean again, Yeah, not to name, uh, other bad video game movies, but I really thought it was just that. And like, I knew these guys are coming in if we heard it. All right. Come on. No, I'll go see the movie. Didn't know it was at night at gun point. I watch it. I'm really glad I saw it. And I've and I've been telling people like they actually made a really good movie. What about from a car perspective? Um, again, It's, you know, racing I. I find it inherently interesting. There's so many bad racing movies. Like Like it's like, 00, I gotta go faster shift, you know? Yeah, Yeah, yeah, but, uh, no. I thought I thought it was It was great in terms of that. And I thought the the the racing was really cool. I mean, you know, the, um I really liked just from a storytelling point of view where, like, the car assembled around the sim rig, I thought that was a great way to, like, tie again. What, sitting in your bedroom playing? I guess that's what you were going through. Did you spend a lot on sound design like accuracy? Like making sure that sound design was like an absolutely huge part of making the film from the first day. I mean, the purist really come out of the woodwork like that's literally every single car was was recorded accurately and also mixed correctly. You know, it's also a nod to Kazano Kaus yahi by the founder of PlayStation Grant truism, uh, the whole franchise. And he is obsessed with those kind of details. He told me something amazing the other day. This is like my favourite workaholic story I've ever heard in my life. We got Kai. Let's compare notes. OK, so So he told me that polyphony is based in Tokyo. He lives in Tokyo, OK, he lives in the same city that he works in. Presumably he just drives or takes the train 20 minutes and goes to polyphony. OK for GT one and two. He didn't go home except for twice in 14 months. Slept under the desk. He said that he actually had a room in there. He, he and his wife would bring him clothes. So changes of clothes he, his, uh, developers, game developers would would all camp out, apparently into little cubicles. And, um, I mean, I got a terrible story, but, uh, because he's he's been doing this for so long. He would they would he would come out. He does this whole thing at the C MA Awards, the aftermarket show where the one of the winning cars ends up in the game and they digitise it. But one of the reasons he would go this is also maybe well, he would go to Vegas and he would buy a lot of stuff that you can find in Vegas in certain stores in Vegas to go back and give to his developers as incentives to keep working really hard. These things might be DVD S of, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, which was I was like, That's amazing. Yeah, that's interesting. That's interesting. Never heard that before. Well, you know, the the adult movies in Japan are a little different than than what we can get here as well. That's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but they're different. Different. Certain parts are blurred. Anyway, back to the car. I'm just gonna keep a backpack on set and, like, you know, like with first AC. Or like sound departments like bro. Bro. Here. Just take this DVD. Just excellent work there. But but II I was at in what June. I was at Lemon in June. I'm watching this movie in. I think July is when I saw it and I was I spent about six hours. It was amazing. Not a complete The film wouldn't have been complete. Done. OK, that I saw. No, no, you may. You may have seen one with Prevas like CG I and stuff because we did. There was a journalist version of I saw it, like, two weeks ago. OK, maybe it was done, right? Yeah, but like, I'm sitting there and I'm like, That's what That's what the pits at the mall look like. And then, you know, the podium I. I was, like, weirdly coincidentally where the camera was shooting You, uh, with the champagne, Uh, you know, I was about that far back, and so far we walked forward. I was on the right side, not on the left side, but it was like, Oh, I know this angle like so it looked very authentic to me. I was on set eight days, and I did not know that that structure was not meant to be there because I hung ring a few times. But that structure of the podium is is was for the movie. But it took me eight days to realise it was synthetic and the wolves I. I did see What do you want? The one there was one. There's there's a lot of major problems. Tell me, Tell me what here's Here's the one was there was an announcer's voice and it's like, Where is the most famous track in the entire world? N, nordle. And they're showing the right. And I was like, Well, very few people know that there is a life. Life is it's a It's a GT track. The South track. Yeah, it's called the but that that that's That's the one where I was like Oh, but again that like when I said I talked with, uh Mangold about it, he's like, No, the the When you drag your wife to see a car movie, she's not gonna know what the nor life is, you know. So that's interesting. Yeah, because I, I actually thought the GP track was part of part of Nurburgring. That's the it's open. They connect them when they when they do a race, then it becomes a 15 mile track and plus the again hyper geek stuff I happened to. I've been to the Nurburgring 24 So yeah, I like. But again, no one's gonna know. No one's gonna know me. Well, I, I have a better one for you. The end. So the end of Lamar the end The end turn is the hunger ring turn because which is not at all accurate We we did. We built computer models of the way the chicas work into the final turn of Lamar and it because physically I mean, as Yan knows, since he was a stunt driver in his own film, everything that you see is real. The racing is all real. So if if if we're faced with racing on a track that has turns that look nothing like the end of Lamar, the only option that we have is to make it 100% CG right, which would break the realism of the film. So you you enter this thing of authenticity but but inauthentic looking images versus authentic looking images with a fake turn again. You're not making a documentary, but you're trying. You're trying to make it as real as possible. Couldn't you couldn't have called up and said, Hey, can you, uh, give me some footage and then have that close the loop, having actual grand charisma footage So in for reality at the end? No, it doesn't look real. I mean, you've got to film it for it to look real. I mean, although, you know, we had an insane amount of V effects in the film, and the V FX supervisor has been to Lamar personally 10 times because, I mean, our goal was to hide the CG. It's the only part where it's not hidden is when the, you know, the the the effect of the car coming around the rig. Everything else looked like practical. That's that's the point. I mean, we wanted, but as real as possible. But But all all of the pits are hungar for, so that you know, the the pits at Hungar are one story high. So all of a sudden you're adding hundreds of thousands of Spectators in every direction. They're all that everything is OK cool, but the people in the cars on the track are are real in the cars. So very cool. One more. Just a couple more questions in the movie that I want to ask you at a high level, but I want to make sure Jan has a chance to anything any final thoughts on, like, big moments for the movie or this whole process. Are you, like, exhausted? You're just you. I can talk about the difficult parts, which, uh, so, you know, Hungar ring is quite smooth. We went to quite a few places, went to reel ring, which was great. Um, but the hardest part of the the whole stunt driving. Yeah, and then because we were shooting for more scenes there, and the track had recently been painted the white lines and we had these huge rain towers as well. There we had a load of auxiliary lighting around the circuits, which you could change to any random colour, which was awesome. But when you're in a racing car, they don't take kindly to, you know, large amounts of water. They just turn into boats. Plus, the production wanted the headlights to be taped because it for the lighting for the cameras. So we were driving around the track in the rain where the paint wasn't completely dry, so it was mixed with the water. We had no headlights and a windscreen. Wipers were just not really clear in the so we were going through these huge rain towers where it be damp around the circuit, holy all around. But then there'll be. There'll be a scene where we have to drive through some water, but it's there's a lot. There's a lot of water, and in a racing car, even at 50 miles an hour, we go as quick as we can and need to just turn into a boat. And there's 15 of us. I think, on circuit at that point, and we're like we're talking to each other. We're like, This is where there's no steering like No, but you you can't see where we're going. I've never driven Slovakia as well. Not many of us have. It doesn't and we driving in the wrong way as well. So it was. It was, and you're in the car in the in the prototypes that point it was it was a in the movie is made up of four locations. How did you get all those prototypes in France? Gave them to us, Big shout out to They were actually like super super helpful and, like, actual race the race, like two. Yeah, we had three L MP two and then with a team of mechanics as well, because they're very finicky, you know, but, you know, Yeah, it sounds really cheap. Yeah. Yeah, its budget cheap. OK, but yeah, tough, but, uh, yeah, it was It was great. It was a real challenge. So let let's Let's let's I want to put the whole whole first back. Let me go back to Neil first. I want to ask you sort of a close up question on it. So did we talk about his? This is the title of the movie is like his baby. This is his franchise. Did he get he get ultimate blessing on the scene? He had to sign off on this. Did he had to watch it? The first cut, the final cut. Like does he get to, like, veto stuff? Like, was there what? What level of involvement? It wasn't It wasn't that process. The process PlayStation at some point had made the determination to make it a biographical movie about Yan before I was on which was a genius move. And and they had gone to, um a screenwriter who who had made a really good biographical movie, which was American sniper. Um, you know, like this this concept of take something that happened in real life translated into a Hollywood cinema, you know, a piece of piece, piece of cinema, cinema. And so when I came on board, what had happened was Kazano had signed off on this idea of the story of Young as a way into grand charisma as a movie. And, um, other than that, my involvement with polyphony was very limited. II I wanted him to just like it and be happy with it, but it was a super limited thing, like the only thing we really crossed over with was we wanted their 3D data for the tracks so that we could do pre visualisation. Um, because it's very difficult to go out and scan like an eight kilometre or a 10 kilometre track and accurately, you know, accurately scan it for all of the tracks we were going to do and then build Prevas so it would be easier to just get the models and they've done that like crazy. Yeah, and they've, you know, almost every track, so that That's where production and polyphony kind of crossed over. And and, you know, other than that it was it was, um, very limited, like, it's only now in marketing or, you know, the end of the film. Now, where I've I've spent time with him and hung out with him, and he likes it. Yeah, I think so. I mean, he speaks obviously, like you're speaking through a translator. So, um but yes, I think I think he's he's he seems he seems totally happy. And I did try as well to make a film that was not, you know, that that was authentic to motor racing. So it wasn't like we were trying to make something that would that would piss him off. Right? And because this is you, you you set it up perfectly. You Yeah, this is like, uh I mean, this happened quite a while ago. A lot of this your into into GT academy winning, going through the school, like and then I mean, I think the rights that the the movie idea was relatively soon after, right? So this has been, at least almost what a 7 to 10 year journey in terms of getting this thing done, and it's it's kind of been in production and out, like or not. Do I have that wrong? Is this is this Is this like a big burden off you like, Oh, it's finally made. It's here. It's great or not. So it's come up a really good time in my professional career, really? So I'm very blessed with that. Uh, I first heard of the movie in 2017 when there was talk of Maybe there'll be a film be based on my, uh, my life. Two years later. Uh, that's when it started to pick up steam. I started to meet people, um, which, which makes sense because because Sony had Sony and PlayStation, I think had had worked on variations of the film prior to 2017 that were not young, right? They were not biographical. They were. They were what I what I would have said. Why? Why are you making a grant to his movie? Movie is a bunch of fictitious stuff. And then, at some point, yeah, I think Carter Carter Swan, um, is one of the PlayStation producers like him and Assad and PlayStation was very cool in making this film like they were awesome to work with. But I think Carter's thing. I'm not sure. I think it's Carter who was like, Why don't we make it? Let's go down the GT Academy Road And And that's why Carter hired Jason because suddenly it was biographical. And that and that point was, you know, roughly around, I think 2018. Yeah, so So, you know, you're a young man born in 91. So when you made a movie about your life, like what? What does that does that hit you? What's that? What's that like Like That's crazy. It's surreal. It's, uh that's how it's exactly how people imagine. It's very mad. Um, he still has his life ahead of him. I had a professor who told me He's like when I when I turned 40 I wrote my autobiography and I was like, That's crazy at 40 because he he was older than that now. But like this is, you're 91. You're 32 31 31 like that's That's wild like it is. I'm very blessed, very fortunate, uh, to have this, uh, it's It's like racing drivers were very selfish people. And, um, you know, he's only been in Hollywood in a few months. Yeah, I'm learning. Learning Well said. Yeah, but, uh, you know, when I first got into racing after the academy, Um, those first five years, lots of things kind of set sat in the background. Not really being paid attention to. All I cared about was my performance in the racing car. Um, my performance to be exponential. That's all I cared about. Everything else was secondary. I didn't care. I didn't care for any media. I didn't care for any, you know, and doing podcasts. I could do it if somebody approached me. But it's not like I'll be doing it willingly. It's like all I hear is I was reading books about racing all the time. It was as if it was my Bible to read the MS. A book about circuits everywhere across the world. Um, that's all I was focused on. You get through life years go by and you start to realise things you start not you're not really developing in other areas. I'm very lucky that that hyper focus. I guess that's why the movie was a thing based on me because of what I achieved in those points. Not only that, the highs, but the lows as well. Um, it's not like I imagine this was going to be a thing. So I feel very lucky that I can, um, I don't think myself during those times. Oh, my life is so inspirational. It's wouldn't be great if there was a movie based on it. That's why it's kind of nice. Actually, for me is like he's he's such a nice guy that it's like, You know, you feel I feel happy about telling a story because it's like you're not dealing with someone who's sort of, um, very narcissistic Or, you know, it would be more difficult, I think, to make a film if the person felt like they deserved it, you know where it's like he does deserve it. But he's very gracious about it. Yeah, so can you, Um because this is kind of where we started. GT Academy started in 2008. It finished in 2016, I believe. Um, and back then, I mean, this is this podcast ostensibly about the future of the car. I think back then, the idea the concert was genius like, Hey, let's see how these drivers of driving simulators of not real racing. Let's see how they perform in the real world. Um, is that has it has that that thing was, that was a very futuristic concept. Has it run its course? As far as I know, there's not. Any other kind of programme should do it again. Is it still happening? It surprises me. It's it's really shocking to me. It really pisses me off as well. Not not because of. I understand why the academy didn't continue along with Nissan. I get it, people. It's a big company. People come in exactly, exactly. So it's surprising to me how I get messages all the time for years. Is there another way? Is there another GT academy? Is there another? There isn't. There's been a spinoff, Um um, which lasted a couple of years, but apart from that, there's been nothing, and it it works. It works not only driver wise, but financially. Any. Every party involved made money. It was a commercial success, but it surprises me. Why there hasn't been another manufacturer or a big multinational company hosting something similar. It's But the tree has kind of gone a couple of ways, right? One is that there is definitely the kids right now who are e-sports athletes with contracts that they're playing. I think the the most popular one is, uh, what a fortnight. Or they're playing the shooter and they're and they're making money that way. But there is a driving. There's a e-sports series GT World Series World championship, where where you drive, um, competitively, only digitally, right? F One is the same, right? Well, there there's and there's another series. There's there's the other thing, which is the rally piece, which is a lot of drivers train on simulators, but like, but they don't. But there is no the the crossover piece where you start in digital with the idea of racing in real life or like with young like kids that are not racing cars and stuff. You know, it's like giving them the opportunity because there is a real, you know, it it it's covered well in the film, but like there's a real financial hurdle. Um, you know, uh, to to doing that, it seems like one of the most expensive, like cash heavy sports out there and you'll meet a lot of drivers and I. I can think of friends where they're like, I really want to do F one and my dad didn't have the money that they might have the talent, you know? What's that and anything do with horses? Very expensive. Yeah, yeah, but like they, you know, one guy I'm thinking of in particular probably had the talent, you know, and just couldn't get a right. Well, it's not. You say F one, but that's of course, that is the That's the pinnacle is there's 20 cars and F 1 22. So what? 22 people seats and there's hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people who want to get that seat. So but even getting into five racing, it's the cost to entry is ridiculous. It's it's a I. I'm not foolish. I understand. Most of it is expensive, but I'm surprised there hasn't been another competition similar to GT. A great a great point. Yeah, there's so many things you can do that the process works, um, is booming, which is great, and not only in most of as well, but you have. You have say, if you have. You're an F one team or a big motor sport team, and you have an option of doing a competition based on and paying your sports driver or hosting a competition where they can use the game to eventually get a seat. Work, get a seat in your junior programme. What's more, easier, the sports. What's more expensive? Doing it the way I think part of the problem is the people running the, you know, the the big organisations. They don't play games, you know they don't they don't They're just they're like, there's no imagine what? 2008? OK, it's Let's get someone and who's fast on the game? Chuck them in the car just to see if it works. But the the health and safety forms you are fill out. I'll tell you the other reason. It's pure marketing, too. Like all of these big car companies, the agencies that direct them, they they only really want to do original ideas. And, uh, this one is already done and and to be honest, the only other company that I could think of that would actually have the ability to do this would be like a Toyota and because the because the connection, the number of performance cars, they have the current lineup, the the global brand recognition and then the connection with Grant but already checked all those boxes and so they can't do that. I don't really agree with the original idea because, well, everybody's doing an E team like the first team to do that. I don't know who that was, but everybody seems to do it now. It's the easier thing to do. The harder thing is to do is do a proper competition because you need to. But you need to set in motion all the instructors, the place where you're going to host the event. It's massive. It's absolutely People really underestimate the scale. Well, we haven't talked about it. That's a great question. Well, what we can talk about it. We'll talk about the bill in just a second. Um OK, so, So fair points. Uh, all around. Let's let's talk about let's talk about you guys personally because we we we we crossed the 90 minute mark and we're gonna run out of time. Yeah. Yeah. So, um because I know we covered you in 2015 I wanna ask you some follow up questions. We wrote an article about about on you and your personal collection of cars. But, John, you've had a lot of success. You've run races. Your your your life is a movie. Um, what was the moment you thought you had arrived? Maybe you got a big check from winning something. And what did you splurge it on? What did you and I mean for me, maybe perhaps an automotive perspective? Did you? Did you buy a really cool car? I'm a car guy. First and foremost. Most racing drivers aren't, but I'm a huge petrol head. Um, there wasn't really a moment where I got a check when I was like, I'm gonna buy it. I guess so. Actually, it wasn't a big check, really. It was like, OK, now I have some a little bit of money. And, uh, maybe it was 2013. I think it was, and I kind of did you. No, it wasn't that wasn't that fancy. I'm a I love the V 12 engine. I think it's the most beautiful thing in the world. I adore them. And at the time, the cheapest V 12 I could buy in 2013 was a BMW 32 7 50 I. So I still got that half that cars in silver. It has sports seats, short wheel base one. It's not the IL and that era of BMW I love as well in 1991 on, um, you know what car I'm trying to get from that era? The 8 50 Those are coming way up in there. It's the nineties thing. It's like, because all of a sudden the nineties are like the collectible cars Now, like the cars that I was obsessed with when I was a teenager, There was a time the the Northern California BMW Club, The, uh, sorry. The Northern Northern California eight Series club disbanded because the price of those cars dropped to about 1000 bucks for like an 8 40 the wrong element was now trying to join the club. So but now those are, you know, 8 50 C. SI is like incredible. It's just so beautiful, though, like the design, like stunning I to this day they look look fantastic. I watch on the flight over here yesterday. I never seen it before I parts of it, of course, but she was in there as well. 735 and 456, which was my third car, which I have. And I was like, It's the exact same colour as my car I took a photograph of like, Where is that? I don't remember that in Yeah, it's in the nice. The hotel. There's a blue one. Very, very quick. OK, 69 with the So you got a You have a seven series V 12 7, 57 50. Your second car because you skipped over. It was the second car. It was a 456 GT Ferrari. Ferrari Yeah, that's a nice car. OK, wait. Another V 12. You said that was the third car you buy. The second, the first car. The second car is the BMW 32. My first car is a 3 18 IE 30. So you're quite a BMW fan. I just that era that this just stunning. I love like a six the old E 23 6 series That era of the shark nose and and the narrow grills. It's it's stunning headlights. Is it E? 30. I'm trying at the moment to buy, um, an E ?36 spec M three, which is, I mean, so when you when you were asking about, like getting getting a cash payment and then going out and buying something, I basically I started directing commercials in order to buy an E 36 M three. Because I was as a teenager, I was obsessed with that car and I I bought one, Which which then, after a couple of years, my brother wrapped around a pole in West Vancouver and then also tried to bulls**t his way out of it as well. Like he was like, was there something wrong with the car when you like that kind of thing? Very unlike his personality. But I still mock him to this day. But that's how a lot of, uh, E 36 is in the hands of young men now. But the thing is that at the time, because I I wasn't, like, well versed enough I didn't understand the difference between the US spec and the and the European 1 80 horse horse. Yeah. No, it's 2, 240 for the domestic one and the the the final 3.2 litre of six. Speed is a 321 horsepower. Wow. OK, I'm just obsessed with that car. I mean, I know guys, if you if you want to talk crazy classic. I know in America I literally found one in L A and one in New York, and they're they're both way over, like 100 and 50,000 kilometres. That's that's how rare they are. We will talk after this podcast. I have a friend who just sort of like every week buys a new BMW. So he's we can help you out, and they're starting to get imported. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, He buys them from Germany, puts them on an aeroplane, flies them out and very cool. Yeah, that was your first. Because that was the same question to you first. That was that was exactly what it was. It was like I basically did a commercial. It was it the adidas one. I looked you up a little bit. You did? I did. Yeah. No, it wasn't Adidas. That didn't pay enough. I did? No, it was ironically, it was an ad for Citrin. Yeah. Um it was well It used to be great cars. I don't really. You know, in South Africa, we didn't. I have this sort of, like, car cultural, black hole, Um, pre 1997 with American cars because we had literally none in South Africa. Like when I got to North America, there was a whole bunch of stuff I was exposed to that that blew my mind both both in terms of automotive, uh, culture, but also just even media, you know, like, um, a lot of, uh, anime and stuff that I wasn't exposed to, even as an 18 year old. But you remember the, uh, the Cadillac STS like the North star engine touring sedan like that car blew my mind. I'd never seen. Yeah, I never seen anything like that before. And I was like this. It it looked like some sort of parallel universe. It was like a sci-fi parallel universe of the cars that I knew. You know what you should get? Uh, speaking of South African BM triple three, I no, the 7. 35 turbo South Africa. Only I think it was an E 30 BMW. South Africa did a bunch of interesting stuff, but Have you ever seen the E 30 Triple Three I that is Oh my God, the digital dash in the fan And it has. It has these, like style as well, but they took. They took a 3.3 litre engine and just dropped it into the E 30 like frame. But it's it's a factory specific, like it's a real car. Well, there's that factory. It's a turbo seven series that, like they never they still have not made an M seven. But supposedly that was as close as they got the 3 20 SI as well. It was an M three at an N three engine in a, but it wasn't didn't have 30 or 36 E 30 E 30. Yeah, because they also they also had this car, which was the E 30 shadow line, which was a kind of I think what you're describing. Actually, it was like a modified 33, 28 or 3 25 or something that was unique to a But it's not the Triple Three I the Triple Three. I was like the the that one I've never heard of. You should look it up. I think it was, it was a 7 33. It might have been, I don't know. It was a Turbo Seven series was supposedly, like the coolest thing. So, um, the only other thing. I just want to come back to you. What Jan said about Ronan and then ask the actual director, Is that the best car chase scene in two Cinematic? Hey, I'm not I'm asking the director. I would say, I would say, Ronan was like a massive deal to me in terms of I mean it. It also came out at the time. I wanted to get into directing because it was like 98 99 97 98. Yeah, and that I would say yes. It probably is like top top three best. What else? What are the other two? Well, I, I think they get a little bit blurred sometimes between between filmmaking and sort of spectacle versus just cars like Ronan is exceptional with just cars, right? But something like the helicopter chase at the the sort of like in beginning of the third act of Terminator two, right where Hamilton is in a van like there's there's, there's a crossover. Sometimes it's hard to delineate between them. But if you're speaking just cars and Ronan is what would come to mind, Probably as number one, I'd be It'd be hard for me to think of something else that's higher than that. Like, what else would you throw in there? Well, I, I mean, I wouldn't, but because Ronan, is it it it like like we're talking about with, you know, you're dropping Easter egg cars in your movie. It's so specific. Like, um, there's Sean Bean asking for that Audi Sean Bean. It wasn't It was the American, uh, where he goes, I need I need something that really moves like an eight and wasn't Sean Bean. I haven't seen it in a couple. It wasn't Sean Bean. It was the American guy who smokes a lot who gets killed. But, uh, like that if you're not a car person, it's whatever it's just didn't want, like Nas or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was It was a very specific O. But if you're if you're like a a car I remember in the theatre I hit my buddy Dave. I'm like, dude, he had no idea I'm like whatever. And then And then there's an M five. And then there's a John Frankenheimer also directed, uh, one of the BMW Films films from the early two thousands, which, which had, I think, your seven series I BMW films. Look, those if you haven't heard about that series, just Google it right now. It's the only successful one of them that automakers ever pulled out. I think it was a nice nice and Luke Basan movies that are really good for, like the transporter from chase scenes. Luke Luke Basan stuff is really cool, actually. Yeah, And it has this euro flavour too, is his stuff. So but back to back to this. So we wrote an article about, uh after we had a and this shout out to Mike Schafer. I don't know if you remember him chatting with you, our our photographer. He lives in Tokyo. He lives in Tokyo now he's very successful. I'm a photographer in 2015, he interviewed you after, uh, chappy and asked you all about your car collection. And, um, in fact, I should have reread this before I talk to you because you are at this point, you had just sold that L FA, this is in Yeah, I hilariously bought it back. I bought back the exact same car because I missed it so much, and then you sold it. Then I proceeded to sell it because I was trying to buy a piece of property which we ended up buying. But I think the car probably appreciate it more than the property, so but so you've had. So you have You've owned an L FA you've owned. I seem to have a history of buying the same car. The one, um, I've had two ZO sixes and one ZR one the ZR one I gave to the same brother that crashed the M three. But that that was you were just going faster. You would have missed it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The the best way to go is a 640 horsepower rear wheel drive car. But I see no problem with that. No. Um, yeah. So two ZO six and the ZR one, which would be the same thing over and over again. But I had a 2005 NSX which has the headlights, and I could never reconcile owning that car with the wrong headlight. no pop up head. So recently I got a 1997 Nana, which is like, I just I literally don't think I've ever loved the car as much as that except the FA. I like them the way that, like they're a piece of science fiction design, it's It's engineering meets for sort of art and form. So that's why I love cars. But But I've. But I've become obsessed with naturally aspirated, very high performance engines, like probably because of the L A. So you have a G three? No. Oh, no. But when are you getting a G 10? I don't know. There's this hilarious interview with Gordon Murray. Um, you know, I mean, I assume everyone in this podcast really understands cars, but if anyone doesn't, he's building this thing. Which is the T 50 at Gordon Murray Automotive, which has a Cosworth V 12, which is like it's like an 11,000 R PM like stunning, even higher. Actually, 11 2, it's like the coolest second coolest engine anyway, go ahead. But also built by Cosworth. Yeah, it is. But, uh, you know, have you ever heard the quote from from, uh, who's the worth of Cosworth, Whatever his name is, he's like turbo charges and super charges for people who don't know how to build engines. But but, um so anyway, the that engine and and, you know, being developed by Gordon, Murray and Cosworth and then just his McLaren F. One pedigree of Murray I saw this interview where he's talking about, uh, a GT three and he's he's talking about it like it's Toyota Yaris. Have you seen this? No, but I can imagine it. He's just like, you know, you You kind of I guess you're you just do what you can and there's a certain range and it kind of comes alive and you just get the groceries. Well, he's talking about 100 and $50,000 car versus what's a Well, it was 3 million. I think it's gone up since the pandemic started. Yeah, you know, I mean, which one the or the or the T? 50 50 I think is I think the price has gone up and, you know, look, the T 50. Nice engine, but like you could have styled it. You could have made it look semi-in interest. You know what it does have, though. That I love is the, uh, any car that has the McLaren F. One like window within the window is, or like the DeLorean like God, I love that you ever driven a car that does that because it's horrible. So you like the Subaru love? What is that, the or whatever? Imagine getting a parking ticket. Anything you would do with a window. You have to like snake your arm. I I've driven a lot of like, and it's just it's just misery. But a c**n isn't designed to be driven, though. I mean, it's like smells like glue and it'll catch on fire and burn your They just They're just very slow. They don't turn. They don't have any brakes. Yeah, I also like the concept. I mean, maybe it's more F 40 than Kunta, but it's like the steering wheel, and then your legs are like where the passenger is seated for the pedals. So you like a diagonal. You gotta take your shoes off to fit in the pedal box. I mean, the whole thing is ridiculous, but it's it's still my favourite car without without, there's no second place. I prefer like a 86. 5000 Bigger. The wing, the bigger the flare. My my version of that is the Diablo, the Audi built Diablo. The 2001 with the with the 300 zax headlights. I love that car. If you get a chance, though. The sweet spot for me in the range The SV is just the actually first Lamborghini that drives awesome. Incredible. But get an early 1 90 93. The ones that have the grey. Uh, that's that next car. But how many? How many cars do you have right now? I had a when we talk about GTR. I had a 32 before, but I want to buy a GTR. I want to buy an R 32. Um, it was a spec one in blue, and, uh, I never I bought it with the intention, OK, if I saw it in three years time because I think it was 22 or 23 years old. Maybe I'll get my money back drive for three years. Sold it, but, uh, I don't miss it. Did you get your money back? A bit more? A bit more, But I used that to buy the Ferrari, which is my dream car, because that car was the first car I had of of any poster. Was that exact car, that colour? I had a Ferrari F 355 that I just kind of sold that I missed. Yeah, I miss it a lot. I kind of want it back. So to answer your question from earlier, why the bell? So the this is this is where we're going. This is where we're gonna go and probably gonna end because we're We're running up on time here. Uh, the podcast is called the inevitable, and it's about the future of the car. And really, it's about it in the the near term. It's about EVs. And we didn't haven't talked a thing about them in the I just skim this article we wrote about you in 2015. Uh, Mike Schafer asked you whether you driven a Tesla model S yet. And the answer was no. Have you spent any time with any electric vehicles yet? A bit in between. Neil, do you own one? I have a model S cloud, which I I love it so much. It's hard to put into words how much. I love that car. Why do you love the model S Plat so much? Because it's like driving a nuclear missile like it is. It is so quick. Uh, obviously it's doesn't handle that well, but I went to I have a lower back issue. So I'm like, switching out chairs pretty much weekly and looking for the most ergonomic chairs that I can find. And I realised a few I don't know. A few months ago in Vancouver that I was buying, I was putting a chair in the back of a 1000 horsepower car like I don't know how many cars you can do that with, You know what I mean? And I was like, This is This is a cool car. So, uh, it's coming out real soon. There's a thing called the lucid Sapphire, which, if you think that's quick because I've driven the Sapphire. If you think of Plas Quick boy, what do you mean? This thing kind of. It kind of feels like metrics around performance are. It's kind of why I got the 97 NSX because it's become electric vehicles make performance stats irrelevant, almost right. It's well, they make they so OK, hang on real quick. Only qualify that they've made acceleration stats irrelevant. But the the the the Sapphire, which you're gonna really start seeing what other people driving it is now making left and right stats irrelevant because it's it's got the fanciest dual motor set up in the rear where, uh, you can mean cornering. Yeah, so, like you can be fully turned in one direction and floor it. And it doesn't even though it makes over 1200 horsepower. It it controls, it takes it. It's it's it's literally it's gering times. Probably still wouldn't be great, though. Like, relative to, you know, like it might be, uh, this car is gonna change a lot of things, but the thing is, when they apply that to something that is like a you know, I mean, even that car probably is gonna destroy almost anything on on the Nurburgring. Yeah, the sapphire is is different. It's it's It was just I just like Tesla more. I mean, yeah, and I love you driven a lucid though. No, but it's not. It's It's also, I think the model S Plad looks stunning as well. I think it's personally for me. I think it's beautiful, so but it's 1000 horsepower. It's super silent. It's very easy to drive. It's just it's such an awesome daily car to have. We gotta get him in a sapphire. Two years ago and before that, I had a model SP 100 D that got written off. I got the plad because the other car got written off. So I I had it wasn't my fault. It was I mean, I know it sounds like it would be my fault, but it wasn't. Was it your brother given? Yeah, left to his own devices. He would write off everything that I have. Um, no, it was it was totally not me. In fact, the insurance in Canada, it's IC or in British Columbia. It's I CBC and I and I. I heard that you could They never give you 100% like fault free because you you're always, like, on the hook for something. And I was I was considered 100% not at fault, but it was it was someone who just went through a red light and just like t-boned me basically, but And the car I mean? I described it like it was a hard The car got written off. It was a hard impact. And I described it like a relatively normal landing on a dirt bike. And the airbags didn't deploy, so they're super safe. But prior to that, because it seems like you were you were fairly like you were interested in Tesla's, but not not that much. I mean, how did you How did you get into into that? Is that that was the first TV you got into? Yeah, I. I got the I got the P 100 D and my wife got a model X and they they are really nice to drive. I mean, just daily, um and then the the plad was so quick that I I noticed myself becoming less interested in internal combustion cars. Just because there's the performance is so insane. Then I directed Grant Charism, and I was I was I was like, Oh, this is why I like cars again. Yeah, like all of the the engines and the, you know, the the the way that even just having gears and cycling through gears and getting the revs up and then yeah, I. I think I have an interest in both. Any any Never driven a Tesla, but formula E. Yeah, but yeah. So never driven anything electric apart from a leaf years ago. But I sat in a recently. Actually, I had a really good talk with, uh the guy showed me around it in the dealership, and it was pretty. I think it was like, 1900. Yeah, I wish it was ridiculous. He's telling me all the stats about beautiful, and I was very surprised, but I've never driven driven anything. Road car wise. Race wise. Yeah. Gen three, for I think it's like 500 horsepower. And it's what? The tyres aren't really slick, but, uh, I love engines. I just love, I think, for an electric car in, say, London is no brainer. Like if I lived in London, I have an I three or something. A lot of hybrid something. You're going four miles an hour anyway. Exactly. But, uh, you know, if I want to, I think inevitably, that's what it's for And can you say inevitable? Well, I think down the line anyway, they're going to get much range is my thing. And any car that I buy. It has to do 450 miles. 500 17, 830. If they would send me a check, I would cash it. No, they're just really cool. If you if you like the Plad like it's like it's the guy. One of the guys that was the engineer on the Plad went to Lucid and engineered this. So it's like everything that Peter Ronson, the head of Lucid, was the chief engineer that has the model CEO the CEO of was the chief engineer of the model S. But, uh, Greg, we had him sitting right here. Uh, he was a, you know, engineer on the plan. And then he went to do the the Sapphire, and it's just like crazy. We do a lot of dumb stuff for a living. And like when I did launch that sapphire, it was like the first time again. It was like, you know, you know what I What I need to understand from a technical standpoint, is like obviously with with electric cars, like with my P 100 D. If you look at the torque curve it, it makes sense how How radically the power drops off. Right? Because that car has no gears, like even at a is a second gear, I think, Right, doesn't it? So you're you're sort of You're allowing the R PM of the motor to drop back down and like, you know, be be re powerful, right? So with a P 100 D at maybe 100 and 50 kilometres an hour, it's like 17 or 18,000 R PM. So it makes sense if you punch it at 1 50 it's like it's got nothing left to draw from. And that's the thing that is stunning to me about the plot is I do not understand how at 100 and 50 if you punch it, it snaps your head back like you're at zero R PM new motors. So So So uh, can I say this? So the the next Porsche EV will not have a transmission. We have one gear will not have a two speed because, uh, whatever it is, and I'm I'm trying to thread a line here. Uh, the new motor technology can has a flat torque curve forever, but it's it. It's It can't be forever, though, like forever. So here's the weird concept. It's like I wanna understand that better. Uh, I wish I. I don't understand anything, but they don't need it anymore. They used to need it because of the that generation motor technology. New motors are so much better, so Well, we're gonna have to call it here. We we got some pacing PR people, and I got it. So, uh, this is, uh this has been awesome. We should have both of you on again Any time you are in town and we can We got through all the stuff. The the that the we can get down to the the all the other, uh, just sort of general car stuff the next time you guys show up. But the grand charisma movie will be in theatres tomorrow in America. And it was awesome to have Oh, my God. John Martin Borough and Neil Blum. OK, great. Uh, the the story is based on Yan's life, and it's directed by Neil, and it was really good, and it's really, really, really good. It's a good car movie. It's just a good movie. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you for coming in. You guys appreciate it. Thanks for having us. Thank you.