686 - A Farewell Episode to History Hyenas

Transcript

Who was most responsible for O.J. Simpson being acquitted? Who are the biggest villains or despicable people that came out of the O.J. Simpson saga? What celebrities owe their careers to being wrapped up in the O.J. Simpson saga? And what current celebrity could generate this type of media attention if they were involved in a similar situation as the O.J. Simpson saga? Welcome everybody to one degree of scandalous. I'm Tom Zenner of Tom's Diner Scandal. This is the one and only Kato Kaelin. I am Kato Kaelin of Kato Kaelin, universally known and loved and welcome everybody. We got a great episode today. We are going to go through a number of great lists and we are going to break down the top three or five reasons for some things happening, why they did or didn't. And we're going to just name names and we're going to really give our opinions here. And we also encourage everybody watching this. This is your time to get in the comments and see if you agree with us. So before we do that, Kato, we're about a week after the Norman Pardo episode, which generated a ton of interest. You obviously on YouTube, I ran a poll. Eighty five percent of the people so far in the survey that I'm doing don't believe his theory that O.J. didn't commit the murders. Seven percent do. Some are still undecided. But you've had a few more days here and you've watched the show and processed it would any any thoughts? I'm part of the 85 percent and you know, Norman, do this thing you put his own money into. It's fine. I think there's a lot of embellishment. Lots of embellishment reminds me sort of the development that they did in the series. There's certain things that just weren't aren't true for Norman, the the maid that being there, there's just so many things and I don't think a person can be in the head of somewhere, someone else to assume what was going on. And Norman did a lot of that in this film, and it's a film and entertainment based, I think. Yeah. So my gut is that it'll be the same as we had five different players in our show before, from Jill Shively to Tom Lange. O.J. and O.J. Simpson, I believe, is the guilty one. Yeah, I think it was a situation where he got so deep into this thing where he had all this footage. And what do I do with this footage? I got to make it work somehow. How can I monetize this thing? And I think he wanted to believe that that possibility was there, that O.J. didn't. And then you have that, that target of Glenn Rogers. You know, that person, the serial killer creep that you could just put this on. But my biggest hang ups were the the people that were in the documentary that want to give their name one and show their face all right. They wanted nothing to do with having their identity revealed. And then all these quote unquote sealed records. So I think you get down this path where you want it, you want your theory to have credence and for people to believe it. And he just he put a lot into it. But I don't buy something I did. But I also didn't stand before we talked to Norman. I thought he was a friend. It sounds like he doesn't like O.J. at all. So I didn't get the I thought, This is a manager. He's got to be the on O.J. side. So I didn't. It came off that he can't stand them. And you spoke about that silhouette of people when they do the interviews. Real quick story I want to tell because you bring up these ideas from me, my mom, my mom passed away. But current affair, you remember the show they used to do with a gentleman on a silhouette and claiming that I was a drug dealer. I was I was Tom, this was devastating to me because I said, bring this guy on, I want to confront whoever it is. And it went on. It went on for over six months. And these stories and people that watch the show could start believing there was a complete untruth. I am straight shooter. I said to the lawyer at the time, I said, Get this guy, I want to confront him. So years later, after the trial, it turned out to be, if my memory serves correct, it was a Springer producer, someone from Springer and I was from one of the shows. I, you know, I don't want to get in trouble, but it was from a tabloid show. It was all set up. And the reason that they can do that is we can get ratings. And secondly, they don't care about me. They don't care about the other person's feelings and the family's feelings. That was one of the most devastating things, right? Because it hurt myself and hurt my, my mom the most. I saw the reactions and my family. Yeah, your mom didn't do a good job of staying away from the coverage. She watched it and she she was a great pain every time they were. You're saying anything disparaging about you. So she she internalized all that. You know, the other thing about Norman, you know, he he wraps this up in a bow that he's just trying to find who killed Nicole. But in the process, he makes Nicole look horrible. I think, you know, and yes, I think if you spend multiple months or over a year with O.J. Simpson, you're going to hate him because he's he's a he's a creep. I mean, I really got a weird reaction from watching all that behind the scenes video he had with him. He's just an unlikable character. He is big. He's got an ego. NASA could do orbits around his head. He's that big and really is true. He's just he's in love with O.J.. Yup. OK. So let's get into it. We're going to go through a number of categories today, and we're going to break it down between Kato and I and give you our list of the top three or five that we think belong in these categories. Speaking of despicable characters, whether they are or aren't, let's start or are or aren't. Let's start with that category of villains, despicable characters more like who came off looking the worst after the fact in the saga. Now I'm I'll give you someone on my list number one, and I don't think he deserves it. But this is just personal opinion, and this just shows how when you're on TV that long during that trial, everybody's going to have a different opinion about you. You know, who stood out to me is being really unlikable and kind of despicable. I want to hear Barry Scheck. Wow, I'm going to disagree 100 percent with you. If you can tell your point. OK, let me give you my point. And I'm speaking about only during the trial, because I think after the fact, he thought O.J. did it. I really do. And I think I've seen interviews with him where almost maybe he doesn't regret it, because as a lawyer, you have a job to do, defend your client and you did very, very well. And I have great respect for what he's done with that project that he has getting people that were framed or or convicted. You unjustly, he'll use DNA to get them out. So he's a good guy. I mean, he is he's a great lawyer, but I just thought during that trial, he accused LAPD of planting blood twice. Twice he he accused them of doing that, and he was very emphatic. And he just came across to me as a villain in that thing that lingered with me and I have him at the top of my list. I can see your point and I can see that the people I'm, you know, two sides of the aisle prosecution and defense. I can completely agree with you the how the people on defense would love this guy would love him. Prosecution? Not so much. The reason I think you're wrong in this thing is because when I saw Barry Scheck go on the stand, I knew immediately this guy was genius. I knew he knew his facts about DNA, and he knew how to talk to the jury about it more than the prosecution did villain. I don't think he's the villain, but I understand your point. But I think you're wrong. No, you're right. I admit that I'm wrong, but I'm also talking about how perceptions can be formed, right? And it's all everybody's grandstanding during a trial, right? Everybody use those weeks and months that they were on TVs had the word use, and I'm going to say my my choice in its ancillary to the whole trial. OK, Jeffrey Toobin, Jeffrey Toobin. And nothing to do with it. Got a movie deal. Got a huge thing. Made multiple multiple millions. Never said one nice thing about about me and I didn't even know the guy right? But he he destroyed me and everything that he wrote. My opinion. And I think that he's there. Someone that profited. Yeah, who had nothing to do with it. So many people want to be connected to it. And he was someone that profited off she blood money. Yeah, exactly. And then not only that, we all know what he did on CNN. And I think that sort of speaks, you want to say what he did. I don't think he enjoyed a moment alone. But he wasn't alone. He was on a Zoom call, remember? Yeah. And he got busted on a Zoom call, as he did with his pants down, pleasuring himself. OK. Yeah. So it's there was a big story about two years ago, and so you think about that, that's the guy. That's payback. You don't mess with the K train. I love that you said that when you're back on my top five best friend list back in my top five best friend list, but that's someone actually had nothing to do with it. And I say that because so many people want to be connected to it. Yeah. Do you have another villain, the jury? I think the jury, it's come out that they were going to acquit him regardless. And your job is to look at the evidence and be fair. And and I think they are the villains in this thing as well, because they're shameless about it. They're admitting the fact that race was the number one reason. It was what eight men, eight women, two men, downtown L.A.. So anyway, let me get back to Toobin. What was he saying about you? Was he making it personal when he was attacking you? In his book, he just said, I was a fool, a stupid person. I don't know the exact wording in front of me. I was on an episode of Dr. Phil. One time. He also, you know, spoke very low of me and then I just did an O.J. is death. I said I didn't want to do a scene in an interview. I did a CNN interview because everybody told me, You have to do it, don't go everything on like a fox or whatever. So I did it and they didn't tell me anything. But when I did my interview, the person the guest after they said, Goodnight, thanks for joining us was Jeffrey Toobin, and everybody on Twitter would say, You know, it's easy for you to cut down Kato when he's off the air now. So it was said it was sort of I felt like I was set up. And it just made me sick. Yeah, 30 years ago. And you still remember that Glenn Rogers could be on that list after what we learned the other day? Yeah, just the fact alone that a serial killer was wandering around the west side of L.A. I don't like him. He's a villain. And yeah, that's that's what I where you bring that up with the Glenn Rogers thing because we had Norman harder and people are still watching. You know, we saw the poll was eighty five percent. I just feel no matter no matter what. Talking to Glenn Rogers, you how can anybody believe the guy in the first place? How could anybody believe this guy? He just wants attention because he's on death row. He's sort of in solitary confinement. He just wants conversation. But going back to the villains, I think a lot of people think Mark Fuhrman is the villain. I don't. I think the biggest villain, obviously, is O.J.. So it's going to be the slam dunk. O.J. is the villain. He's the villain, because first of all, I think he's guilty. Secondly, I think up until he met with his defense team, he was going to probably say he did something and they convinced that we can get you off, I think, and he became a villain because of that with the defense. Very good. OK, so we all know that the whole saga launched a lot of careers, made celebrities out of people, and it was the beginning of reality TV scandal. TV took on a whole new level from that point, and really traditional media changed because of this right entertainment just rose to the forefront and just changed the world in the last 30 years, so a number of careers were launched from that saga. Yeah, I've got my number one. I'm interested to see if it is the same as yours. A lot of these names you'll know, but here's who I have is number one. Harvey Levin because he owned that trial for local news for CBS at the time, but TMZ has changed the world. TMZ has become, you know, the go to news source for so many people, and they scoop every. It is become a powerhouse, and he's legit. Harvey Levin is a great newsman, a great journalist. You know, he knows how to find information. These doggedly determined. But I think for him. You know, he's he's a media king right now. He's created an empire and one and a happened without the O.J. scandal. Today's episode is brought to you by our good friends at Hartford Gold, and they have done something special for you. Our viewers, you they have a special offer that you can just hit in the description of our show. And I'm telling you, it's amazing. While we like the shocking world of celebrity scandals, don't let financial scandals threaten your retirement funds. We're all feeling the bite of soaring inflation, but our financial future is endangered by a host of other problems like failing banks, astronomical national debt and a looming recession. It almost feels criminal, but fortunately, there is a way to protect your hard earned retirement savings. Physical gold and silver. And when it comes to diversifying your savings in tangible assets, I trust American Hartford Gold and you should too. Whether you want physical gold and silver delivered right to your door or prefer a tax advantaged gold IRA, they've got you covered. Their customer service is top notch. It's amazing guiding you every single step of the way. And here's the best part when you mention my name, Tom, you'll receive up to fifteen thousand dollars worth of free silver on qualifying purchases. Gold has been hitting record highs and shows no signs of stopping. Making now the perfect time to secure your nest egg, so don't wait. Call eight six six seven one eight eight nine three nine or text Tom Tom to nine nine eight eight nine nine for your free gold information kit today. Again, that's eight six six seven one eight eight nine three nine or simply text Tom to nine nine eight eight nine nine. Yeah, it's a great one. I think I'm going to go a little bit higher because I'm going to say network TV networks started, court TV started, CNN became. They've had four different spin off shows from a burden of proof with Roger Cossack, Greta Van Susteren and then MSNBC in a show with Dan Abrams. Everybody start getting shows, and I start realizing that more and more people start getting their say card that we're lawyers. I know we're actors, but they start getting in movies. And I think there's even a scene in Liar Liar with Jim Carrey. I think it is. It is. I think it's Chris Start. I don't remember who, but is someone from the the O.J. trial. So but you know everything. And I guess, Angela, you could say me, but I I never lost sight of me becoming the celebrity for the exact wrong reasons. I've always said I'm a I'm a celebrity from everything in my life went backward. I hate it when I had to prove myself. I'd rather prove myself, but I still believe that with Ron and Nicole losing their life, I've never lost sight of that. And that was what it's always been about my life. Blueprint was from God above, and whatever was going to happen was going to happen. So I followed what was going to happen. But I did before this. As you know, I read for so many words before the trial, I was like up and I believe I was up and coming. Yeah, and and it's easy for me to say that people could say, Oh, shut up, Kato. But I was reading, I was doing. I've had my SAG card for over 40 years. Yeah, so some people, I think it's just something that made you become a celebrity, which because of circumstances you were in your personality, but who knows where your career could have been? Maybe it was the worst thing that happened to you because you could have been a movie star or a producer doing big things, but it's not done. I mean, look at the things that you're working on right now. So here's the rest of my list on This Week. Now your top four on my list to best friend sakes. Do it. I'm moving up. I'm moving up by the end of this episode. I'll be out. I'll be a God like figure. But really, seriously, that was. Thank you very much because I work really hard and I try to do and I have to overcome something. And I I every day try to overcome and try to make the trial lower on the show ladder ring. Keeps going by proving it. So cream rises. I'm from Wisconsin. Let's hope so. It does. And the other thing, and I'll leave it at that is you never have to apologize for anything, right? Things have been thrust at you. You've never done anything to make yourself look bad. It's these preconceived notions that some people have a long time ago, but that's what made you the character that you were. Yeah. By the way, when is the last time you had long hair like that? My long hair, probably three years ago or so. I know when it gets long, believe me, I could. It's harder to manage than you can than you can imagine. Of shampoo? Oh my God, the blowouts alone, you know. Oh my god, you like your bills? Hey, by the way, later in this episode, we're going to get to the top five actors that could play Kato in a movie. OK, we're going to get to that. Remember, time with great power comes huge electric bills. Yes. Yes. OK, here's the rest of my list, and I'm going to tell you why. Number two on that list of the careers that were launched Kris Jenner, she is a force of nature. She would have been relevant without it, but with those kids in tow, she turned it into a billion dollar business. Those girls don't become who they are without her. She is a master manipulator, and I mean that in a good way. I mean, she has power. She's a businesswoman. She she hides it. But I think she's brilliant. I think she's number two on this list. I have Kim Kardashian number three, big. Guys, you can't deny the fact of who she is and look, even when you think about O.J. being in Robert Kardashian's house before he turned himself in and Robert Kardashian's involvement in this whole thing. It's hard to believe that little girl Kim and who you knew at the time, my guy next to our Nancy Grace. I'm seeing Nancy Grace above Greta Van Susteren because I don't think Greta is that relevant anymore. I hate to say it. I know she's a friend of yours, but she's not on one of the big networks. She's not in my atmosphere. I don't. I don't watch her. But Nancy Grace is the face of true crime on television, and I think it made her. I'm going to put it number five on this list, Jim Marie, because he deserves it, because he handled the trial and all the coverage so well, and he didn't. He's not looking for anything he could. He has no ego. But I'm just saying it was a blessing, maybe for people to be exposed to more of his reporting and commentary and just his presence on TV because of what this provided. Well, and knowing Jim Mora and I agree with you hundred percent and only because I know him and I've gotten to know him for 30 years now. This is someone who is down to Earth, and you don't find that in news people a lot. Mostly after story, Jim is actually compassion about everything he does. Yeah. OK, next topic. We are going to talk about the unanswered questions or mysteries that still linger even after 30 years. A criminal trial. A civil trial. Movies, books. Documentaries. The 30 year anniversary. There are still mysterious things that are lingering in the ozone that we don't have answers for, right? And I have a list and Cato has a list, and I'm going to give you my number one. And I think I have an answer for it. Why was there no cut? On the glove of O.J. Simpson, and here I'm going to go with what Phillip Vannatter said, that the gloves came off OK in an altercation. It came off and that's why O.J. finger. But I mean, that is a mystery that that glove does not have a cut on it. But I think it's a logical explanation that Phil Vannatter gave in in court testimony. But that's number one for me. We talked about this with Tom Lange. I brought I. I said, Why wasn't there a cut in the glove? You brought it up. I didn't know was Phil Vannatter that said that during testimony in the transcript. But God, your point is so valid, but it makes complete sense. Darren, during a fight, it could come off. Yeah, and I always wondered it because the glove was so it's such a large part of the trial. I was wondering why the glove fell behind my the guest house and why the glove was seen at that crime and why the other one is. Is it because O.J. hit the air conditioning unit? Something fell out and it's just always bob and always will bother me. Why was that glove? And in passing, the cops were in my room. The detectives in my room that morning and me just going, you know, I heard this noise and I don't know if it's any big thing. And they checked it out. Turns out, the little things become the big things like that film, the simple things. And it's I'm so glad I mentioned that, detectives. It's crazy because this thing started with a bang. This is hours after the murders and you heard the thing when when he came back over the wall heard a noise. I have an explanation for this. No one. There's no there's no handbook for committing a double homicide. It was pure rage. You know his jealousy, his obsession with Nicole? He snapped. He had a knife, and he snapped. He didn't. I. I don't believe he went there. Premeditated murder. Certainly capable of it with his years of abuse. I think it happened, and he's not sincere thinking clearly. I mean, he had think how many things he had a checklist of what you would have to take care of your footprints, the bloody clothes, the murder weapon, making sure nobody sees you get back in the car, the blood that would clearly be all over the car. So I think he probably the glove fell during the altercation. He put it in his pocket. He put it where he was and it fell off. I mean, I think it had to end up somewhere. I don't think it's illogical to think that as he was moving around aggressively behind your bungalow, that the glove could have fallen there. Yeah. And they found it right away because you heard those those dots that just create what you thought was an earthquake. Yeah, there are a lot of them that I think and they explained that he probably bumped into an air conditioner so that it became a very important part of the trial. I always had something else that Tom and you probably feel the same way. I've always knew that AC Cowling Energy had the exact same Broncos, and I've always wondered which Bronco was used. Which Bronco did Jill Shively see? Obviously, it was the license plates. It was O.J., but was there was that the car that was used and did the car switch at any time during that flight that morning of from 11:30 on? Because the parking was so bad, it just all these things. So here's a question why was A.C. Cowlings White Bronco not searched until five days later? So that's another question. But again, why was the limo searched right? Allen Park told us that that they didn't live with any forensics. Here's a couple of the others on my list. The biggest mysteries, right? Unanswered questions where obviously did the bloody clothes in the knife go? The murder weapon? Where did it go? Is it in a dumpster at LAX? Is it in Chicago? Is it buried? Is it in a river? Is it there's no rivers in L.A. So it's it was in the Oh, I don't know. I don't know. Why did O.J. go on the run? Guilty, why did he go to the grave? Why was he had a gun? Why did he have a disguise? Why? OK, I think there's in my mind, you know, he was considering alternative endings for his life. Here's one I never knew that pension money was 100 percent protected, so he moves to Florida, so the Goldmans and the Browns can never take a penny from him. A.C. Cowlings role. I think that is the biggest mystery in this whole thing. This guy knows so much. He won't say a damn word after the Bronco chase. He was arrested as an accomplice, and he went to very, very powerful sources and said, Somebody help me out or I'm talking. And he looks like the type of guy that what A.C. Cowlings knows everything. I would love to somehow get him on his deathbed with a tape recorder and find out exactly what happened. I think all the mysteries would be answered right there. And you know what? He keeps it. It's it's amazing that nobody I don't know where he lives. Does anybody know where he lives? And did he go to his funeral? Was there a funeral for him? Was his family and it A.C. Cowlings. He considered family that he'd be there. It's his best friend. I would imagine he's there. Yeah. And you know, if if those two know the real story. I just wonder what that last those moments were. We'll never know if that would be great for him to be on the show. Who knows? By the way, one great episode that we have that you need to go back and check out if you haven't is the one that we had with the investigator from Vegas. That busted O.J. in Vegas was the guy that helped take him down. And the most unbelievable thing he told me off air and this is this still gives me chills when I think about it. When you think of the weird circumstances that always surround O.J. Simpson. A lot of death is around O.J. Simpson. A lot of weird phenomena is around him and Kato. Here's one I mentioned it before, but this is still unbelievable. He was released from prison in Vegas after doing his time for people were supposed to go pick him up at the prison. It was the night of the Harvest Festival or the Harvest Country Music Festival at Mandalay Bay, October 1st, 2017. Four people were supposed to pick up O.J. at prison, right? Three of them stayed and went to the concert. One guy went to pick him up. The other three were all murdered. The all other three were all killed by that mass shooting at Mandalay Bay. It's just to me when when it involves O.J., nothing can surprise you. I didn't know that story. I didn't know the three of the four were killed that we're supposed to pick up O.J. after serving his time. We know our show is one degree of scandalous. That's something that's always bothered me too of you to Twitter. I mean, it's now formally known as Twitter. There's so much footage of another shooter, and I really would love to dive into that hole. Oh, sure. Not a conspiracy there, but I think there's a taxi driver who's got the video of another gun going off and a machine gun going off on the fourth floor. I hope that it's something it will come out in the next few years that we're going to find out more about that. You know, Norman Pardo, you know, you were talking about certain things in the trial. He mentioned also that O.J. in in his documentary that he didn't write the suicide note. I disagree completely. I, you know, he showed the signatures, but that was OG's voice in that letter. And the happy face. Who the hell else would have written it? Yeah, it it was handwritten, wasn't it? Yeah, handwritten. But he said the signature wasn't hers. And, you know, you could very you could do that. But but who? Who really knows? Well, here's the other thing is, it just sounded like his wording. Yeah, but newsflash celebrity sometimes have a different signature for their official name that they write on documents and what they do an autograph. So if you're going to compare to how it looks on a football, it might not look like it looks on a mortgage. Right, right. He probably has Orenthal James or whoever that was to hang a whole theory that Glenn Rogers committed the murders based on a signature. Throw it out the window. OK, that's a good topic. Again, jump on in in our comments here, ladies and gentlemen. Whether you agree or disagree, you have alternative people to add to that list or theories or whatever you want to do. OK, here's the one I want to get to next. Cato Yeah, the top five things that convinced either you or me that O.J. Simpson is one hundred percent guilty of committing the murders now. My list goes way deeper than five. OK, I've got at least 10, and I could go on and on and on, and we don't have to go through them, right? You know, for a long period of time. But hey, the fact that he did not ask whoever called him when he was in Chicago, Tom Lange ad or whoever it was that called him, did it ask about his kids safety, didn't he? You know what? He asked. I was by number one. Also, by the way, you know what's in the court documents? He asked if the kids saw Nicole's body, like if they saw the murder victims, and he never asked the way she died. OK, so and that's a red flag for me. That is such a big, big red flag. Yeah. Number one on your list, you are right up there. That was that was my number one. And I think that for a detective, I would think that they're going to have. Check out more on this guy. My other point was that Tom Lange I did a TV show Tom like Tom Legs book evidence dismissed when he started telling you all the evidence that wasn't ever used. Then I just was a slam dunk that he's guilty. And when Phil, the matter, you know, I was in the back of their detective cars a few times, a few times where I'm driving with these detective. Is from the trial of the century. And I just remember Phil Lange talking to Tom and it with me now, and this is after I've talked to them for over 15 hours, day three or four. And he just said Kato. Let me tell you about this trial or this, this case, this is a two minute Columbo episode, not a 90 minute Columbo. It's a two minute because there's so much evidence and you don't do it, guys that are 35 years, 40 years of being detectives, probably together, 80 years with those guys. You just go, you know, they're smart. They know what they're doing and they know exactly they've they've interviewed people that have murdered before and they just know they just have. They're on this different wavelength of knowing. Yeah, they've seen thousands of dead bodies. They've stayed. They know what clues look like. They had me bring a little closure to you, though, because if you know you never really wanted to say publicly one way or another what your thoughts are, but to hear all that evidence that just stacked up that LAPD had that was never released, they had to make you feel pretty good that you can have that opinion that you know that O.J. did it. Yeah. I also, I think knowing from Tom and Tom Lang and doing all the shows that we've done, it's the it's the most investigated case in the history of any murder in America. With over 150 detectives, Tom, they have the FBI files. FBI was involved in this. How many murders are involved with the FBI? Not many. Four and seventy five pages on this. Yeah. So it's this is an investigation by the best of the best. I'm going to give you a few other things on my list. Number one, the fact that we've all learned that he he's a voyeur. Right? He would spy on Nicole. He was obsessed with her, who would peek in the window. He'd see her with other men. He would stalk her. There's a there's an there's an evolution there. You know, you go up that changes like it's like a gateway drug and you can end up where you could see that being murder. Well, that's one of our episodes, Keesler, which is, I say, go back to that show. And that's a fascinating one, because that was a he was a voyeur to an episode of Keith and Nicole. Yeah. Here's another thing that that triggers me and says he did it in that note that he wrote the day of the Bronco chase. Here's a quote from it. Don't feel sorry for me. I've had a great life, great friends. Please think of the real O.J. and not this last person. Is that somebody that's basically saying I made a huge mistake. I committed this murder. But but don't judge me solely on that. Yeah. Well, Robert Kardashian wrote that note, correct? Yeah, he read that it live on TV. Now, do you think now going with Norman Pardo saying, I would think that note was written with help? I don't I think they like you would run by your lawyer. Well, I think Hillary and him are possibly, possibly, you know, riding together what's going to give the most sympathy. But I think it backfired. I just think that that note kind of is a confession. And I think it made people think the O.J. is going to kill himself, that the people at that time that's so loved him, they thought, Oh my God, this guy is a wreck. And it was just another way of being narcissistic to make America love you then. Then he saw the people on the freeway saying, We love you, O.J., and then the evidence started coming up and that sort of like, went downhill. Here's what I'm going to disagree with you. OK, Kato Kaelin. There's no way Robert Kardashian had a hand in that note because it was written like almost in a child's voice. It was pure emotion. I think a lawyer would a scratch through this change that it's read. He would red line the hell of that thing. Send it back for some major corrections on, you know? But there's just no way. And that was just O.J. speaking top of mind, I think, and I don't think Robert really saw it until he maybe found it or was reading it live. Now I'm going to disagree with you. How does he find the note? How does he not talk to someone? Say, you read this? He has to. Is the attorney client privilege, but he's saying, you read this note. For me, there's no way Roberts will. Probably he had to say, You're going to read the note, OK, but I don't think Carter Ashton helped him write it. OK. OK. I think he wanted to Kim's bedroom and just did it all by himself. Yeah. You know who has another good point? Who knows? Another thing that makes me believe without a you know, this just adds to it. But his confession in jail to Rosey Greer, I don't think this gets enough talk. I'd love to get Rosie on the show. Rosie is, you know, a very respected. He's a man of God. He's a he's a pastor. Why would he make something up? You know, and O.J. probably had to get it off his conscious somehow and thought, Here are in jail, I'm feeling secure. I got to, you know, this is this. What I'm saying is going to be safe. So that one tells me he did it. OJ's reaction to the duffle bag around you and Allen Park, there was something in that duffle bag that was very important to him that he didn't want you or Allen Park to see. Yeah. And well, going back to that point, that will always buy the rest of my life. But Skip June is seeing him have have opening the bag with the zipper or just a hand going in after meeting with Skip and having our show. You know, the guy is a hundred percent credible. So, you know, so many people have these stories that we picked on our show that are so connected and so believable. They're so credible that I'm surprised that certain people were not picked in to be witnesses in this. And, you know, a villain. Do you think Marcia Clark is a villain? We're going to get to that. Oh no, we're going to get to. We're going to get to my opinion on that in just a second because I'm listening back to the villain. I'm going to I'm going to. She might be on the list of people. I think that cost, you know, a guilty conviction that could that guy could be a villain then and a villain. You know what? I'm going to say my opinion on her for just a minute, OK? There are two things Kato. The other things that prove to me, without a doubt, he did it. The multiple explanations for the cut on the finger. Give me a freaking break. And then Tom Lange goes to Chicago. He flies there to the exact same hotel room with the same glasses and throws it against the wall and the thing never shattered. And his claim that he squeezed it when he got word of Nicole being dead, that it cut the finger on his on his finger. The last thing is the fact that he wrote that book or that he agreed to be part of that book that if I did it. Yeah. I mean, come on. Are you see the film Fargo, right? Yes. Many times. Wood chipper. Yeah, OK, I'll tell you, O.J. is he's Jerry Alan Garten practicing the fake phone call about his wife being taken. He's that he's coming up with stories, coming up with the glass breaking. He's William H. Macy as Jerry Lindegaard, going the scene of the phone. And then you see that he's not actually talking on the phone. He's preparing, and that's what I think. He prepared for everything because he's narcissistic. It's a great comparison. By the way, he's this is my deal here. I remember him talking to his father for you. That is a real character in Minnesota. You do your OJ Lindegaard. Oh jeez. Oh jeez. No. See the parking lot deal that would see that. That's my deal. Then. You remember he was trying to talk to you, him. That that's kind of scary is that is the reaction here. My wife Shawn to do is one of the best imitations Jerry undercard I've ever heard. My wife, Shonda, who's not from Minnesota but live here for 30 years. You don't want to think of her as a Minnesota girl. She does the funniest, almost like Saturday Night Live impersonation of a Minnesota woman. But hers is a little bit more X-rated. Maybe I'll have her come on the show and do it because I want to see she does it very well. That's scandalous. OK, let me ask you a question I've never asked you before and. I'm interested in your answer. Nicole and Ron were killed at different spots. OK. Nicole was at the doorstep, basically right outside the screen door. Ron was off to the side. Now Norman Pardo tried to use that as evidence that someone else did it and came back and killed bulls**t. Yeah. Here's my question for you. Should I think too? Is there any chance? Did Nicole have a gun? Do you think she could have maybe knew something that we maybe heard a struggle with? Goldman saw something and came to the door with a gun, and O.J. snapped and killed her, and then he took the gun. It's just a weird question. I was curious. I never knew of a gun. OK, so my opinion? No way. OK. I don't think you'd ever have a gun with the kids in the house as a because. First of all, I mean, I know it would use protection, but I think it'd be the opposite that she would never have a gun, an instrument of a to her. I think it would be something that would. It's that I could be wrong, but it's not part of a vibe to have anything. Sure. Now, the only thing I would say is because she thought her life was in danger because of O.J., you know, escalating over the years. Totally understand what you're saying. OK. By the way, it's just my opinion. I don't think so. OK, lighten it up a little bit. Yeah, let's go with the top five current celebrities that if they were involved in something similar to this, could cause the same sort of media reaction and worldwide craze that the O.J. saga did. I think you and I agree there's one clear person at number one. I'll let you take it away. Well, I think if something like this happen again, I think it's somebody like a Tom Brady. Tom Brady, you just got a divorce from his wife and his wife is a celebrity. Tom's a celebrity. I think the key is it has to be the people we pick for. The top five have to be celebrity, have to be loved. And and then some people have to be unsure about, I think more people are unsure about Giselle than they are about Tom Brady. I think they see that he's he's pure. He's this guy is this is the goat the greatest of all time and he could do no wrong. So that's why if something ever happened in that career, yeah, that would be that would be much bigger than the O.J. story. And here's another element that you put into the mix here that I think you need for it to capture the world like O.J., that you need glamour and you need to be in a major media market. And there's a lot of glamour with Tom Brady and that we're not. This isn't a scenario the way. But think about it, there's glamour. These are glamorous people. O.J. lived a glamorous lifestyle at West L.A., Brentwood, Beverly Hills. People are fascinated by that. I think you get the media frenzy in Miami. You know, there's a similar vibe down there with South Beach and everything, so you could get that. Number two on my list is Taylor Swift, but only I guess if if Travis Kelsey is involved. But yeah, Taylor Swift would generate this type of craze. Abby, come on, it would stop everything in the world's path. And this is we forget about the presidential election of one of those two scenarios came through well, my my other one is anybody involved any of the Kardashians, any of the Kardashians with their life that they lead like a Kanye West going crazy or anything that has to do with? You could see it already happening when Kim started dating Pete Davidson and the evil you saw on Twitter. Ex, you saw the fighting that was going on and people, your teams, your people with their phones, and now they relish that. They want to see that and they want to see just what you know, that is news making. And they don't care about their feelings. They care about what's going on. God, people are going to go crazy for the beating of not Diddy. Yeah, that when that starts coming, yeah, people are. There's video of that. Who does not watch that? They love a train wreck? Yeah, good job putting Kim Kardashian on that list because the band she causes a frenzy when she wears a string bikini. Yeah, you know. So imagine if that was true. I thought that was floss. That's a string bikini. Double check. I mean, you're friends with her. You know, when she was eight? Yeah, OK. She hasn't returned my calls. I have a couple of other names on this list. Shohei Ohtani. Just because the whole country of Japan is obsessed with him, this would be this would be the biggest thing ever in Asia. And then I put Conor McGregor on this list, too, because he's that big in Ireland. So I think you and Messi and one more Messi. So I think when you put these these fiefdoms that the whole country is obsessed over until we take over what I'm going to disagree because those people you're mentioning is big in their country. It's not as big as America. There's no way I think the media capital is America. Everybody falls. What's going on here? I, by the way, those are big Ohtani, McGregor, but they're not big. You have to get like, you're Taylor Swift. Your connection because it's it's generated here at home. Anything at home is going to be a much, much bigger trial. Much, much bigger people are going to be want it televised. And I mean, look, I just think if something God forbid would happen to like a Trump, it's that's that would be the biggest scandal. I think what's going on with the Democrat Republican and where is it going to lead to? I mean, let's face it, there could be something horrible that may happen. Well, you'd have no shortage of suspects if that happened to you. Right? The problem is some people volunteering that they did it. But yeah, you're right. Trump obviously is on that list. And you know what's interesting about the list, though? For me, I knew there's no actors. There's no actor right now like they used. They don't. Don't have that aura anymore. I'm going to talk about that because that's a great point. Have you noticed the decline of no one really opinion? Nobody really cares, right? It's not big to watch the Academy Awards anymore. I don't think it's that big with the Emmys. Everything's everything's gone downhill now. Do you think it's downhill? Because the last four years of America? I don't know. But it doesn't seem like it's a big thing anymore of the clout that an actor had like, Oh, this movie's coming out. You tell me something that you got excited if what excited you for the last time to go to a movie theater? Nothing. I haven't been to a movie theater since before, over the last. Think about that. The last movie I went to was Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. That was the last movie I went to. I have no desire or plans to go to the. Why wouldn't we get it at home? That's what I'm saying. And you've got people that are now stars with their tick tock, and it's become so divided of who or who can be a millionaire now. And I think they kind of, yeah, I think people in general just say, I don't care about that. They don't give up. They don't give a crap. And you and you and I live this world here in Hollywood and we know what Hollywood has turned into and what it was. It used to be glamorous and used to be exciting. It's almost like it's gone the opposite end, right? And I think all these actors are held hostage here because they're not allowed to be themselves. They're held hostage by the agencies, by the studios. There's a system here, and if you don't comply, you're done. Yeah. So they have to do everything to fall in line. And plus they're they're all loony. I mean, they're all just flat out crazy, you know, and or a lot of them. And dealing with the Hollywood structure right now is a pain in the a*s. Everything is different. Everything is digital, everything is turning and they're getting left in the wake. And Hollywood stars just don't have that pull anymore. Now the Rock did a couple of years ago, but not so much anymore. I don't think. I think I've completely. And I think they also tie themselves. Certain celebrities tie themselves to the wrong thing, and people are opinionated about that. If rock, you know, if rock is seen as on the side of it, maybe of an Oprah and all that people are like so divided. They don't care. Yeah. And we're from California and we are the West Coast. Creative studios are gorgeous. They're beautiful studios. I'm coming here, though, when I come here and I'm sure you come here, I just travel, not on the street that we're on, but just traveling here, this homeless encampments. So the glamour is gone. And I think it's because people see California as though the stars and everything's bright and beautiful, but it's not that way anymore. And that affects Hollywood, too. The red carpet has now got to be vacuumed every day. It's sort of. Oh, that's funny. Yeah, you know, it's funny because if you don't live in L.A., you have this perception that's it's falling into the ocean that it's just like, you know, like the MS 13 is running around this, you know, it's very dangerous place. It's a mess. It's not great, but it's funny because I think some people do come here and they're surprised. It's not as bad as they might think it is. But internally, it's a mess. When you have the leadership that we have in this state and the district attorney that we have in this city, it's destined to. But everything could change quickly. So we'll see. But yeah, that did no actors on that list for a good reason because they've lost their luster. No question about it. The five biggest events of the entire saga, Kato. They use the five biggest events, OK, because there were so many. I think time with that question is this it's sort of a it's almost hard to do five because there's so many. Give me your number one. There was where were you moments? I think the where we humans are divided in the top. I think it's 1a 1b. I think it's the Bronco chase. And I also think it's the verdict. And the verdict, I'll say, is probably Vegas, because that was what we did split screens and how race was divided. So that became the biggest story. And still from 2000, the 1994 1994 95 to two thousand twenty four that will go on forever because it showed the division. So and we mentioned shows before time, everything is compared to the O.J. trial and every kind of trial. So it's always going to it's always going to be there way after you and I are gone. The whole world watched both those things number one and two on both of our lists. It's the Bronco chase and the verdict. Those are number one and two number one. Now let's separate ourselves in three or four or five. I'm going to give you my number three on the list. Is O.J. trying on the gloves that that changed everything. It gave the jury an excuse to acquit him. It was gift wrapped. Yeah. Handed on a golden platter and that thing got played all over again because the old days, bad acting and the fact that Darden would have him try them on. That's number three for me. Can I add to that three for you? I think it's a three with an A and B, because I was going to say that also. But I think it's more Johnnie Cochran saying if the glove don't fit, you must acquit because that read more powerful with the visual, what would you try again on? You needed that line to make it even more powerful. OK, I got my line. My name. Number four on the list is Brian Kato. Caitlin's testimony the world wasn't ready for the for the train leaving the station, and the world changed after that. So I got that number for Kato Kaitlyn's great testimony. And then I include this in the saga. And I put it at number five O.J. being sentenced in Vegas to 30 years, 30 years by Judge Jackie Gla*s. And you know what? She was clearly cleaning up the mess that was made in L.A. Was it right or wrong? You can debate that it was karma and it caught him off guard. His reaction when she nailed him for multiple decades in prison and those charges and those convictions that they kept reading him and reading him and reading him here probably going, Holy crap, what's going on here? So that's what I have in my top five. Is that a person after a you went to a judge glass? I've tried. She doesn't seem real interested in talking, but I'll keep trying for sure. Yeah, I think people would love to hear that because if she said having Andy Caldwell on the detective, I believe that was in its name, right? Andy Caldwell Yeah, it was a great show. OK, now I want to get into you might not want to talk about this, but I do. OK, the most responsible for O.J. acquittal? OK. And I'm going to put number one on that list. Gil Garcetti. And I'll tell you why. Because what? He decided to move the trial to downtown L.A. instead of Santa Monica, where it should have been ballgame over. So you could say what you want about Marcia Clark, Chris Darden. Did you know the prosecutors, the LAPD, whatever you want? But if that trial is in Santa Monica, it ends differently and that was made by the district attorney, Gil Garcetti. And you know why? Yes, I think I do, because he wanted to be close to it. His offices were downtown L.A. and he wanted to have a hand in it. Well, there's another point, though. It was an election year and that election that would have been bigger news for him. So the election year would have cost him probably to get reelected. So and I also believe that if I'm not mistaken, they wanted it. The prosecutors wanted to make sure it stayed up here with Clark and Darden, which is crazy out. And it was Bill Hodgman. So there were a lot of players that we don't we don't know. The conversations they had would go, Yeah, because you go in the room, you discuss why you want that at that in downtown L.A., it's just a total, totally different jury pool right there you have to choose from. His life was L.A., Beverly Hills, Brentwood, Pacific Palisades, the West Side. And that's a different world than downtown L.A.. And as soon as that decision was made, you know what? I'm going to shock you. I think with number two on my list most responsible for O.J. Simpson's acquittal, and he did nothing on his own, but I think because of him. Rodney King, I think the the the lingering effects of the riots in '92 and what happened to him and the way LAPD got off the hook for beating the crap out of him. He was the reason they were going to acquit him regardless. And they had Rodney King to put front and center right. Can I add something to that too? Yeah. I also think part of it is in books that were written that the juries go through a jury pool, their interview of how they like certain people and never did anybody like Marcia Clark her, but she was not going to get out of that case. Nobody in that they tested to see if she's likable or not. Yeah. And that's important stuff, man. That's the it's so important you want the jury to love you, especially when you're be on TV. And it may not have mattered because the jury, I think, really loved the celebrity of O.J.. Well, her big mistake was allowing Darden to allow O.J. to try on the glove. And. Darden knows he screwed up big time. He's admitted it, but for her as the head of the prosecution team to allow it. I mean, come on, you're the quarterback. Never. If the fullback wants to do a Hail Mary on second and three, you got to tell them no, right? Never ask a question. You can't do that. You don't know the answer to. It was just so logically stupid. Yeah, right? And it just it just it was the biggest disaster. So, yeah, the marshes on that list. But again, it was an unwinnable position. She was in right. And it's easy for us to judge them. And he has a very, very tough job doing it in front of the whole world. OK, top five movie stars or actors that could play Kato Kaelin effectively in a movie? OK, but they already had it. They did tell everyone again Who played you? Magnussen Yeah. Billy Magnussen Also in the No Time to Die, the Bond film also played in a Bruce Lee karate film where I don't think it is, but he's becoming like a huge he's a huge star now. He gets that you can pick and choose his roles now. Billy Magnussen No, he's become big. Yeah. You know what? Not c**kiness, because I would never do that. But he never did an interview that he didn't want to meet. I never asked him, but he never did meet. I heard other people met with the people they played with because Travolta met with Shapiro and so Billy banks and did meet. But I met one of his best friends. A writer at the one of the New York magazines came out and did an interview, and there was an interview I saw in People magazine. They did that, and the guy could not have been more incredible to me interviewing people around me. And he was cool, he said, and done great things. You know, I think it's it's methods for actors. They approach things differently. Like, I don't know if you saw the thing on Hulu that's examining Donald Sterling with the Clippers as the owner of the Clippers when he lost the team in 2014. But Laurence Fishburne played Doc Rivers, the head coach for the Clippers at the time, and Lawrence Fisher had never heard of Doc Rivers. He knows nothing about the NBA. Laurence Fishburne, they from The Matrix. Yes. Laurence Fishburne from Boyz n the Hood. Laurence Fishburne. He played Doc Rivers and he nailed it. Now it's a s**tty show. It's not good. But he did have the mannerisms for Doc Rivers and some actors, I think, choose not to be polluted or whatever they might. They want to be so organic with their interpretation of the choices they're making, right? So they don't want to meet. Now, I think how would you not want to meet the person that you'd be acting? Pick up some quirks, some mannerisms and things like Billy Magnussen never met with you before playing that role. Never did. I think you probably met with Sean Penn, especially. Yeah, I think he did. By the way, Laurence Fishburne, I we should coach the Milwaukee Bucks because Doc Rivers did a horrible job. Here we go. OK, but here we go. Thank God it's not football season. What are you going to say about you? Said Summer, Billy. Oh, I was, oh yeah, so great. Billy Magnussen's performance of you in the series one to 10 and then be real. Don't don't throw him a bone because you like his friend. No, no. I he he made his choice of who I was. There was the complete opposite of who I was. Yeah. So he he if he played his role as a Spicoli, he gets a 10. But as me, it's a it's a three. If that because it's not, it's not me. He he he played the character that affects wanted him to play. I think of who they thought Kato was, so he couldn't have done a worse job, is what you're saying. I wish you were to talk to me. Yeah, I mean, come on. Look. And then here's the funny thing because that was like what, eight episodes in the spring of 2016? It was a long series. The first time he entered the screen and thinking, This is me on screen for the next three months for the whole world to watch. You had be pissed going, really? Is this this is how he's going to portray me, and there's nothing you can do about it. Tom, you know me as Teflon. I went with it. I was writing for the New York Daily News at the time. I got screeners, so I knew that. And I think I told you I was like, too much Kato for Kato and that, OK, I was just trying to be a surfer and everything I wrote, but I kind of laughed at it. I was like, Wow, he took this, but it did not affect me at all of my being who I was. But you know what people do? It's come out bingo. How do you like the portrayal of you? And I just go. You know, he made his choice. You know, the me, the more I think about it, it's almost better that he did kind of the opposite of you. Because if he had nailed you, what if he got a few things wrong? Then people would think that's the real you because he was so far off. It gave you fodder to write about in the New York daily news, that's for sure. You can critique his performance after every episode. OK, here's who I have on the list of movie stars are actors that could play Kato Kaelin. I got Owen Wilson on there. Come on, Owen Wilson playing Kato. He nailed it. I've Justin Long. I love Justin Long. I think he's a great actor. I think he's got that quirky side, but a serious side and a real side. I think he could do it. I got a younger Sean Penn because he's a real actor. He's a thespian. He would take it serious. He's got to be a lot younger. The amount of cigarettes he smoked in his life, his age. I've got Kevin Connelly Kinney from Entourage, I think could maybe pull it off if he could recognize a friend of ours. Yes, he's a friend of ours. If he could grow his hair a little bit longer. I've got Aaron Eckhart. OK, I like Aaron Eckhart as an actor. I think he pull it off and I got Keanu Reeves. I can't do a good job. Keanu Reeves, OK, you my top five who can play you well. I kind of like your list. I, you know Keanu Reeves story. I know his sister Kim from over. This is like, Oh my god, this is going back at least 35 years that I met because I used to do shows for the car shows. And she was in the audience in Boston, and I didn't know who she was. Kim Reeves. And then we start talking and that was a quiros sister. And I always said, God, I love your brother. He's great. Who knows? Maybe one day he'll play me in the great choices, great choices. So. And Owen Wilson, Owen Wilson Ice-T on Showtime called Eye for an Eye with Judge Extreme McQueen, who married me, Akeem and Stacpoole. So you know that Owen's from Texas, and so I fly from Burbank and Owen V, and those fly out at me at least seven times have shared flights in the front. It's because they have the five first time out just randomly happening on the same flight as Owen Wilson that we say to sit next to each other, we start playing these games. And he had this game he played. He goes five questions and we had he had to know who he was talking about. Five questions yes or no. And then he would say the answer. So for instance, if it was Wilt Chamberlain, you'd say tall, then I could say NBA. You go, Yeah. And then you start naming things. You get five choices, but I'll never forget that game. We played quite a few times. Can you imagine the money you can make on Tik Tok if you have video of those games in First Class of you and Owen Wilson, this is the guy with these little trivia games that you were playing 2005. Is see the same guy that you see on screen because he plays a similar role. I love the guy he was the tastic. Yeah, exactly. Just. Goodhart, you could tell Goodheart, yeah, there was a story about him that just broke. Did you showed it to me? Well, do you want to hear the rest of this? Oh yeah, yes. The best part of the story. So Owen, when we're sitting together, says, Can I tell you a story, Kato? I said, Yeah, he goes, You know, the first person when Luke and I had a movie called Bottle Rocket Bottle Rocket, was that what made them stars? They wrote, produced and acted in it. He said, You probably don't remember this, but we pulled over the car on San Vicente. You were jogging during the trial. It's 1994. You were jogging and my brother and I and the other friends, there's four of them. We pulled over and said, We get a picture with you. And our German run, I said, of course. He said, you could not have been a nicer guy. And we said we're meeting in Hollywood for a film bottle rocket and all that. I said, Oh, good luck, you guys and all this and we did. I would love to see those photos. So that story is so in my heart of knowing that the old and Luke Wilson, the first person they met me jogging, I jogged every day and I ran at least 10 miles. So they stopped me and they said, You stopped doing your run. Just do a photo. You wrote, Do we know these guys? And it was I. I'll never forget that story. Love it. I've not heard that in 65 episodes because you bring this out. OK, good. That's a really unbelievable story. And it kind of pisses me off because when you sent me the story about Owen Wilson the other day and I'll explain why he was in the news, I said, Hey, I'm going to try to get Owen Wilson on the show. Why do you say I've known him for 15, 20 years? Because I wanted to see if you were going reach him, because that's a story you can tell. I know. By the way, everybody I'm talking to, the young Tom is very convincing to get anybody on our show. He's so good. He's got this big heart. And you never disappoint because the people that have done our shows that were sort of iffy on it every time they've said, thank you for being so kind to us and thanks for we love doing the show. And I think that's what we bring out. We are because we don't we're not mean-spirited and we always want the best of our guests. Yeah. And we also want the truth, right? So we push it a little bit to get the truth, and I think they want to tell it right. But I think everybody feels safe in here. And I think a big reason is because you're here. It can lighten everybody's mood and it just makes it a real safe environment. So we're talking to you. Marcia Clark, Judge Ito, Firmin Darden. The people that I'm going to get on this show, we're talking to you. Well, Tom, you know, you talk about the comments that we're getting. Yeah, you're blown away, right? That you just you post something out of our show in an hour already that it goes to like five hundred comments and people want to get certain people on the show. All those people I know they mentioned to get on our show. Yeah. And I'd love to have more on the show. No, go ahead. I'd love to because I think Marcia Clark probably hates me, I think, but I still would love to have a show. Who knows? Yeah, I doubt if she hates you because I think time heals whatever wounds you might have. And she's got a serious personality flaw. She still hates you because she has no reason to hate you. Why the hell would you hate you? And plus we can edit. That's her problem. Who hate Kato? Yeah, by the way, we can make you look bad, Marcia, or just cut you right out. Oh, yeah, Owen Wilson was in the news because he was offered this role for 12 million dollars to play a character who had conspiracy theory about who really committed the murders. And 12 mil. The movie's already in production right now, he said he'll know. He stood up during the meeting when they offered him the job and said, Are you f**king kidding me? Like, I'm going to play the role of a guy who thinks OJ Simpson didn't do the murders. So he said no, and his agent, according to the article, said, Take it. Yeah. So I don't know. That's a media. I like to find out what what's true and that about what he'd play, but I could totally see that he would just get up that kind of person. He would just get him, you know? I mean, you know, I'm sure he'd do great in the role, but there must be something in the meeting where you just kind of been left favorite. Owen Wilson role. I'll give you my two Zoolander and Wedding Crashers. So damn funny. And both of them. Yeah, I'll go with that. I'll go. Zoolander. I think playing Greg Hunt Hansel and Hansel Hansel. OK, you got out. Yeah. All right. Again, let us know what you think. I'm sure you are and bottle rocket, by the way. That's the movie that made them stars. You got to see the original bottle rocket and they shot it, I think, in Austin, Texas. I've heard of it. I haven't seen it in the fact that they pulled you. They pulled over to get a photo with you, John. Is that when he told me that story, I I just thought this exact same thing that you're thinking. I was like, Oh my god, I love Owen Wilson. So that's a true story, and I love to see that picture if he still has. OK, we have one more topic. We're going to wrap it up for today, OK? And I got this one, Kato. The O.J. Simpson saga is the biggest thing that's happened. I think in news, pop culture, media, crime, it checks every single box. That's why it became what it was. Everybody knows about it. Everybody who was alive during that time followed it. But what else could possibly be on that list that would fall a little bit lower on the pecking order in the history of world events that have occurred? Do you want to give me like what would be number two in your mind? Boy, you know what? When you the started the conversation, I just wanted you. You bring out these moments that I have to share a story quick in. So you talked about this being the biggest thing the O.J. trial of how big it is. Well, you know, the Chinese communist country, right? I do well. My my wife's from China, not a communist. When she went out with me, the biggest show that was in China was the series, though Billy Magnussen played me in that. So my first date. She sued Kato Kaelin. She has no idea, and she's talking to me going, Oh, in China, one of the biggest shows this guy is Kato. He looks like you. And she's going on about this, and I'm hoping if she put him down, she's not putting me on. I said, I'm that guy. And she couldn't. But she was like, the, you know, when someone's not faking it, she's like, Oh, well, you know, I can't believe. So I would say, that's me. The guy who. And it was it blew me away. So I'm saying in Beijing, China, that's how big this trial was. It was the number one show in China. The special effects special. So I think you got a second date. You got it. Yeah, I married. But but the whole thing was that she didn't believe I did. I tell her, it's me. I showed her my license. Everything is our first date. Unbelievable. It's almost like it's unbelievable. It's almost like you're royalty, by the way. How did you meet? Where were you when you had that first interaction with her? Well, we were going through an app and my buddy said this girl moved in from Beijing. She's smart. The first time I talked to her, she's hilarious. So we met at Cafe Roma in Beverly Hills, and we went with one of my dear friends, John Mayer, the entertainment lawyer who ran Warner Brothers with his wife, Lily, and we all went to a presentation in Beverly Hills. But, you know, I went to Cafe Roma before the classic. It's like one of those days. Amazing. One of these places play. Some of it was for a what he called the visual. It was the makers of those things you put on the I don't I don't have one. Oh, you mean the A? I know what you mean. Yeah, those goggles that you become. It's crazy golfing or whatever. So OK, that's yeah. Virtual reality. Virtual reality VR. OK, it was OK. Here's number two on my list. JFK assassination And part of the reason why is because Lee Harvey Oswald was was killed by Jack Ruby on live TV. OK, so you bring in TV into any of these things that the whole world is watching, and it just becomes even bigger. He was so beloved. So that's number two on my list. I got the moon landing next. Then I got Bill Clinton, Monica Lewinsky, blue dress. That thing was that could not get out of the news for the longest time. And then finally, the Lindbergh baby kidnapping that is my top five biggest Fenham news stories of all time. More pop culture in the years years, more of American history of minor, minor or something like the Robert Blake murder to find out whatever happened. Never know minor. The this the Bill Cosby did Bill Cosby drug people. So my other one is Oscar bitter Pistorius, who is now getting out of jail. So minor of these things because Netflix is running specials, so mine are more like not as big, but yours are. I love what you wrote. I want you the history books. You went to us weekly. I went to Netflix, but I went with these things that are kind of like, Oh, wow, these are, I think. And by the way, these things are probably a lot of people are interested in them. That's why there's series be made. Yeah. OK, I'm going to the last thing that I'm just going to throw out there is, you know, when we have all these takeaways from the guest that we've had covering the saga like we have, one of the funniest moments was when Tom Lange referred to O.J. Simpson being hopped up on grass, right? Not high on marijuana, not smoking. Pot hopped up on gra*s. Was that the best quote ever? Grab this gra*s. Damn, it sounds like a 70s detective show. It sounds like the wonderland murders. He was like, the grass is sort of like the old braggadocio hopped up on gra*s. Yeah. All right. Well, this is fun, wasn't it? It's great. I think everybody enjoyed probably watching and listening to this because this is interactive, right? So looking forward to seeing all the comments. I say it every week, but make sure you go back and listen to the shows. Listen to the episodes if you want to go down a rabbit hole of delightful lists. Go to our archive of our shows on YouTube. Tom Zehnder Live. Find us anywhere you get your audio podcasts. One degree of scandalous. If you like what you see here, let's give a like. Subscribe to the channel, share it with people and a lot of A-list guests coming up on this show. And pretty soon I'm going to tease everybody here, but we're going to go to two times a week, so we're going to go twice a week coming up here soon. So if you like this, you're going to have more of it. Who does a lot more, Kate? Can we say? And you can cut circuit, but can we say, Happy Birthday America? Of course we can. We're taping this right before Independence Day. Yeah. America, we love you, God. We need you coming back. How you used to be when Kato and I grew up, he was an amazing place. Still, still, we rule this Earth. Don't anybody forget it? And I'm going to do a favor for everybody right now. I'm going to end the show with Tom Sater doing Jerry Lindegaard signing off for one degree is scandalous, because that was brilliant. Well, this was my deal here. Gee, well, that parking lot deal, though. That was mine. Oh geez. What? Oh, Marcy. Oh God. Whoa. No. I'll meet you at the Radisson. Oh, Howard, that's a nice place. Go to the Radisson when debris is scandalous with Tom Lundergan Garden getting horrible. Put me in a wood chipper. I'm Tom Zehnder. This is Kato Kaelin. We'll catch you next week on another episode of one degree a scandalous. Hey, if you like today's episode, make sure you check out some of our other content. Go right here to find out how O.J. Simpson got busted in Vegas. This story is unbelievable. Or click here and find out the real story. Of Nicole Brown Simpson and who she was.