151. The Death of Ellen Greenberg: Listener Response

Transcript

Don't miss the greatest show of the year on April 1st and 2nd, WrestleMania goes Hollywood with two full days of non-stop action. The world's biggest superstars will be at SoFi Stadium and you can see it all on Peac**k. Every match, every surprise, every jump out of your seat and scream so loud you wake the neighbours moment is streaming live. Watch the winner of the Women's Royal Rumble, Rhea Ripley, take on the legendary Charlotte Flair for the Smackdown Women's Championship. Then, after winning at the Elimination Chamber in Montreal, OSCA battles Raw Women's Champion Bianca Belair and of course, the main event American Nightmare. Cody Rhodes, winner of the men's Royal Rumble Challenge, is Roman Reigns for the undisputed WWE Universal Championship, plus surprise guests and massive matches, the likes of which only happened on the biggest stage in Hollywood. Catch WrestleMania Live April 1st and 2nd at 8:00 p.m. Eastern 5:00 p.m. Pacific with kick off shows at 6:00 p.m. Eastern 3:00 p.m. Pacific streaming only on Peac**k. The following program is a podcast, one production from Hollywood, California, by way of the Broken Skull Ranch. This is the Steve Austin show. Give me a hell. Yeah, yeah. Now here's Steve Austin. Hi. Check one two one two Steve Jobs to come to and top the hotel on the third floor. I tell you what, I'm sitting here with Tommy Dreamer, the innovator of violence. How did you come up with the innovator of violence? I'm about to ask you first. Here we are. I was coming to New York City. I got a new reality television show, has got a broken skull challenge. Is going to season premiere on July six. By the time you hear this. It will have already premiered, but in a way, set your DVR to check out the Broken Skull Challenge on country music television. And there was one name that came to my mind because I always love to talk to people in person, and it was Tommy Dreamer so short notice, just like everything I do in my life. I call Tommy out of blue and said, Hey man, well, you know, I got your number, I got your number from our mutual friend Nicole Djerassi uncle used to be known for a long time. She's the one who took care of me and had my a*s in every single town and did all my flights and all my stuff for me. So I know she doesn't listen to the show, but cheers to Nicole D'Orazio, who was the savior of my entire career that I was with WWF. So here we sit, and you were able to put some time in your schedule for me. What's happening right now? You want to talk about the House of Hardcore because I want to start off with the here and now and then go back in time. You got it. I would love to talk about the house. I want to also talk about this. You know, it's not every day you call me up, the other day I'm driving and we you sound as serious as a heart attack. I'm like, Yeah, the f**k's going on. Let me explain to you, I'm sitting in traffic and all of a sudden, Hey, Steve Austin, I'm like, Yeah, in my head. Yeah, right, Steve Austin's calling me. It's not that we're not friends. We really don't ever have conversations on the phone. So and I'm like, You go, What are you doing? I'm sitting in traffic driving to a show. You understand I have been my entire life full of wrestlers. When Austin 3:16 was the hottest thing going, I and beepers were around my friends. We would get beeps and it would say 3:16. And you would look when you looked at your beeper, you get turned around your friend, kick in the stomach, give you a finger and give me a stunner, right? So for the fact that you're just call me random out of the blue, that's what I was like. Whose rib in me now? But then when you said, So what's going on, kid? And that kid was like, This really is Steve. I was like, Hey, what's up? Yeah, well, I started to kind of doubt myself. I was like, Man, is somebody that got a lot of bad things going on his life or is really not happy to hear from me. And they said, We don't just call each other out of the blue. Hey, let's describe our situation. It's romantic. It's Rob. I wish you had a vagina and a set of boobs because I'm sitting here in a beautiful downtown West Side Highway, 44th Street overlooking the theater district. We have the view of the ocean. We have Manhattan out and it's the smallest room ever. You're you're sitting on a crate where you rest your feet, you're sitting here, you know, but it's OK because it's not every day when you have Tommy Dreamer knocking on your door. I felt like I was your old girlfriend and then you open doors like, Ooh, what happened to him? But it's a rib. I mean, you know, he'll you check it out. I checked in this hotel the other day and is, Oh, we want an upgrade you to the whatever the gimmicks. Sweet thing they call us saying something. Oh man, as bad as they give me to upgrade, I come in this motherf**ker now. Look, I barely got enough room to turn around. I look, I got my suitcase right there on the floor. It takes up the entire side of the room right there. The bed takes up the rest. I got the one chair style hotel because you're the guest of the show. I gave you the Mack Daddy chair, and I'm sitting in this little motherf**ker that, like, you know, a kid would sit on or you put at the end of your bed to put your shoes on. Yeah, it's not the biggest show I told my wife. I said, we're about to start to show us that we might just lay on a bed and hold our microphones because that's what we got the most room. I promise I will keep my clothes on. Thank you. One foot on the floor at all times, then it's not sex. Okay, so check it out, man, we're in. Is this downtown midtown uptown? Where the f**k are we? We're right in the middle again. Theater District. This is you're in the heart of the city. Times Square is a little bit to our left. We're overlooking all these great buildings and you got some you got some views going on here. It's a pretty good view. I'm digging. I've got to stretch out here and see all the cars, a bunch of yellow card, a lot of cabs in this city. I had to name a room service. People bring me five Sierra Nevada pale ale. I didn't have the torpedoes. I got five pale ale, of course Tommy and got a drink as and he's got to drive home later. But here we sit. And dude, you're from what this neck of the woods right down cause New York born and raised. So you're at home right now, man. I mean, it's like I come to New York City to do what I gotta do, and I'm promoting something this time around. But dude, with all due respect to the city, with two or three days here, I'm ready to get the f**k out. So this is this is just another day at the office for you. Yeah, I mean, I don't really get into the city that much during the holidays. I'll take my kids, you know, we go see the Christmas tree every year and you know, there's tons of stuff to do. You go to Madison Square Garden, you know, see a concert or whatever, but you. I mean, like again, I don't, you know, you said it, so then who you can go see in concert? I don't tell me Bon Jovi, I know I don't remember the last concert are normal. If I go out. It's usually like if there's a wrestler in town or like, Hey, meet me here, meet me there. I move up town and you go, check out bully Ray me and we always hang out. He's a concert guy. You know, there's always just some worst strip club guys, too. We'll always go to a different strip clubs. We like to go to strip clubs. Oh, well, yeah, it's a good place where fans won't bother us a while because they're looking at the ladies, right? We were the last time I went out. Probably in the city was for Bully Ray's bachelor party to Brooke Hogan, which was awesome because it was a fake wedding, but we had a real bachelor party for it. I like it's just another reason to go out. I like that, yeah, it's just a reason to go out. Yeah, I mean, because I mean, you'd think and shoot, but you working always on. It's so real to me, bro. So you were just talking and you live. And how many miles is to your house? From my house, 11 miles, sometimes in traffic out there. The way you told, I thought it was taking like an hour and a half to get here to. Yeah, with traffic, there's something called traffic. I know we're OK. Broken skull 11 miles from here, but you said you back up to like 6000 or 20000 acres because this is I live in Westchester County, where the highest tax county in America, we have the most millionaires per capita. I am not one of them, but I pay the highest taxes for them. My backyard ends where and we have six miles a nature preserve right to. I could walk to the New York. It's like an aqueduct reservoir. And I got animals. I got deer. Man, do you go deer hunting in the woods? I do not kill animals. Is where you and I the only problem? The only place where we usually get along. Don't get mad. If you go now to some old country boy coming here to the city, kind of more can survive. I've got a shotgun arrival and a four wheel drive. What if I came over your house and we catch some fish in the aqueduct? That's just water. Maybe, probably some alligator. Because I always hear about people flush alligators and they get one a little more much a redneck that is not happening. Oh, cousin, you're coming out of all these people, Tommy Tommy. I'm not saying it doesn't have it, can't it? They cannot survive in the sewer. I know they have. They actually just found some great white in New Jersey, and there's some great white off the Long Island sound. Well, I tell you what, they've got to be some unhealthy great white sharks because there's got to be so much pollution in these waters. You don't want to go swimming. It just looks nice. And actually, if you thought if you this was your house, you would pay more money because they would consider that a water view, even though you could barely see it. And to the listeners out there, the Steve Austin show, when Tommy was given his panoramic description of all of the beauty that is the Broadway district of New York City, you can see a cat hairs worth of water, right? With that bill in the middle down there splits it up. It's like the scenic of friends, except we have a guy from New York and a guy from Texas who you see that thing down there that keeps flashing 50 shades. Yes. Did you read that book? No, I don't. Did you hear about the book? No, I only read wrestling. My life is still 100 percent wrestling. I'm probably the biggest fan. I only read wrestler books. I just finished. But did you hear about the series of books? And it was a change in people's sex lives because I guess the women read the books. I get all juiced up, and I guess they want to f**k their husbands more awesome. They, my wife, read all three books. I ain't f**king them all before she read this same b***h at or after. No, I love it. It's just. Is it a work or is it a shoot? Well, I guess you don't know because you read wrestling books. Yes, I know me. The last wrestling book you read Stan Hansen, how was it? Was pretty good. I read it. It was a little long before that I was reading about the Montreal territories. Yep. How did that grab you? Because did you remember all the names or some, um, ring a bell and overzealous people like that? But no, I basically, you know, I do. I wrestle every single weekend. I'm actually just coming off five days of wrestling straight. And whenever I go to Indy shows as happy was a little vendors and they'll see a book and I'm like, I want that book. Do you consider yourself a bit of a wrestling historian? 100 percent. I've been a wrestling fans and some nine years old. I have every wrestler inside wrestling and pro wrestling illustrated from 1979 till 1992, and then I only started buying them. If my name was in it, then you know, I was getting a big head and then there was just a picture of me. Yeah, I still I buy in that there's a picture of you. They cost like 10 bucks now, right? So yes, I do consider myself a wrestling historian. I have never lost the wrestler name game. Really? Yep, never explain to my fans a wrestling the wrestling name game. We sit on the cars we used to drive all the time and this is a time killing exercise. We would sit there and I play it a little differently and there have been fights because of this game. I have gone nine hours straight playing this game or it was held to a draw, but I have yet to physically lose the game. We explain the rules and how we are driving down the road. We play the wrestling name game, you would say Steve Austin, and then it is my job to come up with the person's name who begins with the letter A. So I would say Arn Anderson to add my own Tommy Dreamer twist to it. Then you would have to say two wrestlers with the name A because I said, Arn Anderson, so have you said Austin, Aries and awesome Kong? Oof, that's, you know, message up. And then it would be my turn to say, well, but at that time, it only goes back to one name, correct? But if I would have said Austin, Aries and another guy with two of would four are the greatest game ever, Christian, that creepy little bastard, you know, see how they named 13 KS once in one drive? I couldn't believe it. I thought this is after four hours. Chris and I have traveled together, and he would never wanted to room with me because he just, I don't know he likes to get. His own room, but yet he would always call me to his room to rub Tanner on his back. And so I would go to my room. He don't need to hold on. He was rich innovator of violence and it's not gay. It's pro wrestling all the time. But there always was that moment when I would touch his back and he would. Sometimes you would be, you know, he didn't shave his back every once in a while and you still get that. Oh man, this is still weird, bro. I love you like my brother, but this is weird. And he'd always like Tax Week. Could you please come to Aruba, put terror on or the lower back? So I, responsible for his and his funny edge would always be like, Dude, you're the dirtiest man. Like, you don't look like you're tan, you look like you're dirty. And that's because I was putting on a couple of times. I noticed in his back looked the little splotchy, and now I know the back story to how and why that happened. The longest game ever of the wrestler name game was myself, Paul Heyman, Chris Candido and Sonny driving to Lake Placid during the original ICW invasion. And we played for nine hours. We had to stop the game, and we continued. And Paul Heyman was disqualified. Now how do you get a disqualified player? Well, because you can say Joe Smith. Yeah, and he'd be like he was an independent wrestler from 1930 and the NWA Champion and this before smartphones and all that stuff. So we disqualified him for, Okay, got you. But now we have the rules that you can't go to your phone. But if there is a discrepancy because I mean, again, there's also a lot of independent wrestlers. And so if there's a discrepancy where like, I don't know about the guy, we go to Google and then you Google the guy's name, right? So I've never lost. There has been Bubba has had me on the ropes. Matt Striker has had me on the ropes while Christian has had me on the ropes. Chris and I have actually sat in our rooms and text each other answers back and forth. That's how nerdy wrestling fans we are. So to say I'm a wrestling fan, I'm a proud wrestling fan. OK. So Christian likes to get his rooms by himself. You don't want to ruin me. I don't. But but you've come back. You've come up the hard way. Yes, I do pay a lot of dos and room with a bunch of dudes. So now these days on the road, if you get out there, you try to run by yourself. You travel with a group of people because, you know, once you kind of started making a little bit of money on the bus, I'm a loner. And I always wanted to have my own room, but I always couldn't afford my own room. So these days are just now a part of the process is still ingrained in you. Hey, get a bunch of dudes in a row. No, with me. I usually I mean, when you work independent wrestling, there's you're normally the only guy, but you know, you don't know a lot of people. So it's just me. But I was always those guys. I'll cram five into a room with this room. Tonight, I would cry. I'm five guys. If they needed sleep on the floor. Yeah, let them save some money. I love the camaraderie. I love the business. Some of my favorite times are just chillin in rooms or, you know, I've had some craziness going on. You know, a lot of things happen on the road. You know, you go to a strip club, you bring the entire strip club back to your room. There's an orgy going on in the corner. That was my life since I'm 18. You know, you never you never know what happens. And I love all the, you know, the debauchery. I love every single bit about it. You know, that camaraderie is what you miss. And it's, you know, also what, as they would always say, you, you learn your greatest things in the car. You know, you talk about the mat. I mean, you think about I used to ride with Paul back and forth all the time, and that's where I learned so much. And it was, you know, it was a great, amazing time of my life. And even still, when I sit in cars with, you know, independent wrestlers. My life is I will get on an airplane. Some total stranger usually picks me up, and normally there were a fan or they tell me stuff and I'm with this person for the next, you know, few hours. If the shot is, you know, wherever and they take me to my hotel, they, you know, drive me back to the airport the next morning. So I mean, I'm still very, very, you know, into that whole camaraderie. And you know, I'm now back in the day when you guys have cram in a bunch of dudes in a room. I've been there. Now, normally, like take for instance, for a while, it was myself, Mick Foley and Diamond Dallas page. Chronologically, Diamond Dallas Page was the oldest cat in the room, but the youngest guy in the business. So therefore, because he was a young guy on a totem pole, he always got to pull away. But yeah, yeah, I know we I split the room on even even. But so how would you work the seniority status in regards to who got to bed? Mm no, it was my not always pull. My back hurts, you know? I mean, I broke my neck. I broke my back and never had a surgery, so I really can't sleep on the floor. And so most guys would always give me the bed or me and Matt striker just shared a bed. We were in Seattle. We went to the Mariners game and I put the pillow in between us and I said, Dude, you roll over towards me. Or if you snore or punch you in the face or when I'm on the road with TNA, I'll, you know, share a room. I mean, Baba, OK, let me stop your hypothetical situation. You and striker laying in bed. Yeah, let that breathe for a second. So you had striker laying in a bed he reaches over inadvertently touches you. You said you would punch him in the face working pudge. I would probably super kick and slap the legs. My wife and my niece just went to Mexico and they were supposed to have two double beds. Of course, they messed up the room and so they were stuck in a king and they were going to wait on the double to open up. But they had such a great room with regards to being right by the swimming pool and the ocean. They decided to stay there. So my my niece is very, very cute. She's a sweetheart. She's 21. But when I first got there, because there's a lot of older dude showing up with younger gals, they thought my wife and my niece were a couple of dykes. Nice. So then when they built up the ledge, like you said, they rolled up a towel and made the dividers bed. Then all of a sudden, everybody understood what the deal was. You know, it's funny. I remember we were in Fort Smith, Arkansas. This was for TNA and it was me, Bubba and Bobby Roode. Bubba has a sleep disorder. He walks in his sleep, he talks in his sleep. Come, he snores. He is loud because Bubba's allowed human being. He's been doing some great work down there in TNA with regards to his promos and stuff. But is he allowed sleep talker or like he snores like he's trying to swallow the entire bed? Right? Bobby Roode has night terrors every once in a while. What a night terror you'll be sitting there. Maybe like night terrors like. Ah, that is a Night Terrors 9:30 in the bed with Bubba, who sounds like he's and Bubba will sit up and give you a hard look. And the first time I ever roomed with him, it was me. Give me a steak guy. Me, him and Mikey repressed, and he was hovered over Mickey Weibrecht, and he was about four hundred and fifteen pounds, right? And here, Mike, you were back in the corner. Go, Tommy, help at Bubba's looking at him like you wanted to kill him. Yeah. So, Bubba, be looking at me like, you're fat dick. Go to f**kin bed, you know, lay down. Yeah, and he'll just be snoring unconscious. And Bobby's and the other, you know, you've got a sweet Bobby's on the pull out scream. Have a night terrors and I'm like, I'm not f**king going to go to sleep at all tonight. But yeah, I mean, again, those are times on the road. A lot of times I would room at Hornswoggle. Mean, Edge would ruin together. Every once in a while, Edge would give me a naked superfly. Jimmy snuck a splash from across the bed, which was always, you know, fun. It's hey, when there's nothing wrong with it, when you guys are naked and splashing each other when you include wrestling. Rhino is one that me and him have been best friends forever. Rhino is a germaphobe and I am a filthy man. And that's really, yeah, I'm kind of cleaned up pretty good for the podcast. No, no, no. I just it's my room. You know, if I watch, if I want to spit on the floor, I'll spin it. So I don't do that when I'm sharing rooms. A guy? Yeah, sometimes you really spit on the floor. Sometimes I don't make it a point. Yeah, I make it. I gotcha. Sometimes I do pee in the sink just because I can. Oh yeah, see. Well, I know I will actually piss in the sink. I used the room to spike all the time, but rhinos, a germaphobe, I'm kind of, you know, a messy. So we go with sharing rooms, same hotel for two nights and I pick up a towel and I wipe my face where it smells like a*****e. And I'm like, What the f**k is this? And then he's like, he folded all the dirty towels, and I would just take a towel and shove it under the sink. And I said, Dude, I just wiped my face with your ass, and I said, What did you fall the towel for? And he goes, Well, you know, for the maid, I said, No, that's what a maid does. She comes and takes these towels away. So and then he gets mad. If I would walk to his side of the room is like, What do you do? And that's my side, right? So when he would go into the room, I would dive on his bed naked, take off all my clothes. He'd come out. I'd be wiping my ass, like scooting across it like a dog. I'd rip all his proteins and throw them on the floor so him and I don't room together much anymore. I don't know if I'm much more of that conversation I could take. Let's shift to whatever happened to Rhino. Rhino just came back in a household and a hardcore I've been using pets are great. He just came back in TNA. Let's talk about our House of Hardcore, because did that originally start as your school to teach or learn professional wrestling? And now you turned it into your promotion, correct? And you're doing indie shots? Yes, but I mean, you're you're doing the shots. Yes. Hey, tell me about the promotion game before we get into House of Horror, because back in the day, you know, when I started wrestling, I went to U.S. NWA in Tennessee and I would make it s**t. I would make fifteen twenty dollars a night and was driving, you know, two hundred miles each way to do our business. And they were just put gas in my car and it was always the thing. You know, all the boys wanted to end up being just like Jerry Jarrett, you know, Hey, man, we're making enough money to start our own promotion. Have our own shows. Well, and most people that did that ended up going broke. So what's what's the secret for success? And have you found your endeavor into it? Because I know you've kind of been a guy who's really done about everything there is to do in the business, from the top to the bottom, but not brains, but not poster learning, you know, the ins and outs of the ring, too. So I guess my reputation with the fans coming from SJW and helping with the booking and then, you know, going to WWE and working in the office and, you know, helping write pay per views and being creative and then going to TNA doing the same thing. And just then my own, I always wanted to do one, and I said if one was successful, I'd do another and it was proposed to me by my two trainers there. Two independent wrestlers Vic Delicious, Hale Collins and they they're very, very tied into the area up in Poughkeepsie, New York. It's about an hour from my house, and they're both managers of gyms up there. And they said, Hey, we got to travel into the city or we got. There's no wrestling schools around there, would you? We want to open a school, but we want to attach your name to it. And I said, Well, if you're going to touch my name to it, I have to be there. And so we worked out a deal. I have a I have a free wrestling school. I don't pay rent to run it. I run it in the Mid-Hudson Civic Center, where I used to shoot Monday Night Raw, right? And then my pay off for there was that I have to run a wrestling show and I did my first show. It was very successful and it's been steamrolling. I'm up to six now and I did my first show, October six, 2012, and we I've had three return dates from in Poughkeepsie. Then I went to Philly, which is a natural progression for me. Two weeks ago, we did a West Coast invasion right off north of San Diego. It was a sold show for me, and it was a big convention with and had a lot to do with a trading card company, so all the guys made their own deals and they guy said, I just also want to put on a wrestling show and now I've been and, you know, really good. They want to bring me back. And I've also been talking with a few other people that maybe want to go for this. I don't want to expand too soon. I would love to take over the world, but I've seen too many errors and mistakes. And again, learning from the business, you see so many guys, this is my money. Every time I run a show, my wife wants to kill me because, you know, I have two kids and, you know, I don't want to tap into their college funds, and I'm not going to be like a money mark in the sense of, you know, burn through because I want to run a wrestling show. But so I'm looking at this as a business. Well, tell me about your wrestling school because I get people all the time and they send me questions and they always ask me. They send emails to questions of Steve Austin Jio.com. You guys keep sending the questions because I read each and every single one of them. OK, you're in the Northeast. People ask me all the time, where is a reputable place to learn how to wrestle? Yep. So would that be your school? That would be Tom. Tell me about what was it? Make delicious, I guess the other name Hale Collins. They're my trainer. OK? And they've been working. Vic was in OPW. He was one of those guys that was he could do everything in the ring. He was like a mini build a motte, and I still call him a mini builder. But unfortunately, he's not the tallest guy, right? Hale Collins was trained by my trainer, Johnny Rods, and he is good looking kid. 29 years old should be in the debris every six foot two great body. Except he can't talk. And so, but then again, then he also got to the point where he has. They both have really, really good jobs. And there comes a point in your life where you say, Hey, you know, I don't think we'll look at him at 29 years old. So, you know, they're they're content. I know if I would ever be or I just got one of them a tryout with TNA. But you know, there's not a lot of places to work out there. OK, now what do you charge for someone to go through your wrestling program? How long does it? There's a how to structure. It's for life. I charge we have different payment packages. It's I would like to say, Oh, it's, you know, $3000, but it's it's 2500. If you pay upfront, it's three grand if you pay monthly. You know, it's $100 a month. I want to start doing the credit card thing because it's a lot of people who show up and then you teach them a little bit and you then they run away, right? I'd want to say wrestling schools reputable would be mine. The Dudleys down in Florida, Lance Storms in Calgary. You know, it's funny, people. I mean, I remember when I started there, you didn't know how to get into the wrestling business. And you know, now there's a wrestling school everywhere and you don't know how you going to, you know, get started now. You just go online and just, Oh, I could go this guy. But to me, if you've never heard of this person, then how are you going to wonder about them training you, you know, or, you know, so so that there's really no time limit on your school? No, I mean, I've had I have a few students that make it in the sense of now they're out there, they're doing independent wrestling. It's it's the s**tty thing about wrestling is a lot of people first think they can do it. And there's also there's places out there that they will take a person's money and then go, sell me a bunch of tickets and I'll I'll put you in the ring. And the these kids are horrible and forget about the physical dangers of actually doing that right. But they're just, I want to say they're almost money grabs, right? And you know, I mean, I saw I wasn't allowed Johnny Rod trained me. I wasn't allowed to have my first match. When he told me I was having my first match, I sold 50 tickets just cause I wanted, you know, people to see me right? And he, I mean, even what my my students, I tell them, I'll give you a dollar ticket for every ticket that you sell. And so I had one kid my first show. He sold me 87 tickets, so he made 87 bucks. Plus I gave him 20 bucks because he wrestled. He walked away with a bigger pay than than I made, you know, in my entire STW career. No, but all this good stuff, you just second. I don't think we have enough time to talk about this. Well, no. But the entire career? No, no, we're not. We're just going to we're going to hit the highs and lows in some stuff in between. You mentioned Johnny Rise. I've talked a lot of people and Johnny Rogers guy to train them. How long did it take you to make it through this course and how would you get? What grade would you give him? Oof, Johnny was an amazing trainer then. He still has his wrestling school. I don't know if he still gets in the ring. He was my cla*s. The guys who came out of my school were Damien Demento, who at the time he was the next it guy. He was, you know, the next road warrior he was. He had the amazing look. You know, Bill DeMarte, Taz myself after me was big Vito Angel of the ball. These D-Von Dudley Matt striker trained their. I mean, Matt Striker, I want to say, was the last of the guys who Johnny would see us again. Johnny, Johnny, man, he would he would get in the ring and he'd wrestle and he had to be my age. Now I'm 43. He had a he would wrestle Damien Demento for an hour. Bill DeMarte, Taz and myself for a half hour. He would never get in the ring. I mean, he would never get out of the ring and he would stretch us. But you also stretch you to help you. You know, teaching. He and he was amazing, Barbara, and that was his job. And he was Vince seniors like shooter as well as he would, you know, the guys had. But he would lay on you, lean on you. And again, he would not get in the ring for two hours, right? And you know, Johnny, he taught you the right way rolls, bombs, rolls, bombs. Then you know, I remember one time I rammed Damien Demento head into the turnbuckle on a screw, caught him and I stopped and went, Oh, Phil, you're bleeding. And he punched me right in the mouth because I stopped and it was there on my comeback. And he goes, And now you're bleeding, you know? And I don't I don't believe in training that way. I I don't believe in taking someone who doesn't know what they're doing and shooting on them and stretching them. I believe everyone should. Lance Storm, it's on me. I wish every wrestler now actually was in a real fight because they would know how to sell. They would learn how to be tough. There's not a lot of guys who who have that or you have I mean, I have this one kid. His name is Ben Ortiz. He's a corrections officer. He's 13 and three and amateur fighting. He's he can do Frank. He's 300 pounds. He's down from 360, his body like Samoa, Joe. And I told him, You're not super tall, you need to lose weight and I'm telling you lose weight. Not because of what I vision wrestling. But if you want to try to take it to the next level or get another, you know, get somebody look at you seriously, you know, or go to Japan, you know, that's how I try to tell guys, I don't want to crush anybody's dream. You never. But I mean, right now in wrestling, there's only really two places to make it right. And if you're not blessed with height and you're not blessed with a great body, you better become the best in-ring performer that you can. So anybody wants to use you. And that's kind of where I tell guys interesting. I get a lot of the emails that people send in to mean everybody wants to get into wrestling, but I'm going to do it to Tommy's point. You need to take a real, honest, hard look at yourself, see and what you're bringing to the table and see. And if it's really a viable option, that's one thing. If you just want to get out of independence and work and just do it because you want to have fun holding a ball game. If you're really trying to make a living, paying your bills, it's not worth it to your body physically, right? I have I've had some guys get severely hurt. I have one kid who did two tours with the Marines. He took over, rotated on a backdrop. He snapped his ankle and it was pretty brutal. He's now coming back, but you know, he's afraid. But and I told him, Listen, if you're going to continue to do this to your body, this this stuff hurts. I mean, you broke your neck. I broke my neck, I broke my back. I've yet to have a surgery, but this is real. Okay? And you don't want to wake up, you know, in all this pain and not to have any money or look at it where, hey, I tell every independent wrestler, I mean, there's nothing wrong with being an independent wrestler. You're pursuing your dream and somebody may. It's a great feeling to sign an autograph. Take a picture with somebody and someone may have paid to see you wrestle, which is a great feeling. But if you don't have a regular job or if you don't, you know there's, like you said, take it serious or don't do it at all because it's not worth it to you, your family or your physical well-being. How long were you in general school before you said, Hey kid, you ready for your first match? Three and a half months, three and a half, you have to understand it every, every Monday. While I was every Monday, Tuesday, I was the first there in the last two weeks. I was there from 12 to seven. And this is all I've ever wanted to do. I wanted to be third base for the New York Yankees and then I saw Bob Backlund wrestle and it was a whole other story. All right. Talking about being a professional baseball player and it's all Bob Backlund Russell. I'm coming right back with Tommy Dreamer after one of my sponsors. This is the Steve Austin show. Grow grass fast with Scott's turf builder, rapid gra*s. It's a revolutionary mix of seed and fertilizer that grows full green grass and just weeks. It helps you solve your lawns, large problem areas and establishes new grass and no time seed and feed your lawn back to the top of its game fast so you can speed your way to enjoying it. Pick up a bag of Scotts turf, build a rapid gra*s. Today it's guaranteed or your money back. Feed your lawn. Feed it. Steve asked any boss to unleash, at least I come right back with the dummy dreamer on Twitter. All right, so here you are, your kid growing up and you're a big baseball fan, so you want to play third base for the Yankees. Yeah, that's all. I want to be baseball player then. My father was a big Rangers fan. Rangers Canadiens game is all about New York. Rangers hockey team is snowed out on Channel nine here in New York, so they show wrestling from Madison Square Garden and a wrestler named Bulldog Brower came to the ring. And here comes Bob Backlund. Bob Backlund. I was. I was hooked. Were my life changed at that moment and I saw, how old were you? I was nine years old. Two months later, for my birthday, my father takes me to the Westchester County Center, White Plains, New York. I see Bob Backlund defend the WWF title against Cowboy Bobby Duncan, and I remember Bob Backlund snapped my hands going to the ring and I had a power and coming back. I made a sign for Mr. Backlund and said, Bob Backlund number one, and because I wasn't the smartest kid. It took me two pieces of loose leaf to just watch him recall a tape it together. Bob, can you sign this for me? He said, Kid, hang out for me. I'll sign for you. Awesome. So now I'm sitting there secure is like, Hey, you got to go. And I said, Whoa, whoa, whoa, bob. Backlund is going to sign this form, and he goes, Well, the wrestlers leave right out that door, so that gives up right where the wrestlers leave. So now it's February. It's leading outside. For some reason. Crazy nine year old Tommy Dreamer did not want Bob Backlund, his new best friend, to see him with his father. So I made my father go off to the distance and I had my best friend. He sat in the car at sleeting. Here came Arnold Skogland. He gave me my first ever wrestler, autograph, which I still have. And then almost like the mean Joe Greene or Bret Hart commercial from back in the day. I see Bob Backlund walking towards me and he's got the towel. He's got the satin jacket. Just like, you know, you see on television. It's myself to weirdo wrestling fans. And probably for what now I would decipher as groupies waiting for Mr. Backlund. But he just blew. He walks out and he's like, Hey, guys, take care. And I go, No, no, no, Bob, can you sign this for me? And he hit me with the most influential words that shape in my life, and he said, I'll get you next time, kid. And I went, No, no, no, Bob, it's me. Can you sign this for me? And he was like, Take care, kid got in the car. Arnold Skogland pulled the car right up, close the thing and drove off. I was devastated. I was crushed. I got in the car. I remember like looking at my father. David chase him down. No, my father probably would have wanted to kill him. But Bubba will probably shot on my father and Ryan. Yeah, but I didn't want to cry in front of my friend. And as soon as my my father dropped my friend off, I started crying. I never forgot that feeling. And I mean, I guess that's kind of where I have this connection with fans because I mean, I've gone out of my way to sign for his fans. And, you know, if you have 2000 fans, you got to sign for it. You sign for all 2000. But I never forgot that. Now, all these years gone by, what do you think about Backlund? Hang on. Thirty years later, you still got that f**kin sandy bob. Backlund, my friend is his manager. He says, Hey, we're driving by. You want to go meet, Bob said. Sure. Now I met Bob, my first ever trial and WWF 1992. He just said, Hello, goodbye, Mr. Barkley. You know nothing. Then he did a shoot run in in SJW in Poughkeepsie, in the Mid-Hudson Civic Center, and we had Atlas Security throw him out of the building. Now what do you mean, a shoot run in? He is crazy and did a shoot run in 1990, whatever he comes to the show. And Paul Heyman, I guess, was president of his fan club as well as Paul was president of the fan club of grand wizard Lou Albano and Freddie Blasey and Paul. He shows up and he wants to. He's talking to Paul about doing a promo and Paul's like, Bob, I'd love to have you, but it's 15 minutes before the show and he's like, You know, if you were to call me before, and he said, Well, no, I don't wanna do anything wrestling. I want to talk about politics. I'm running for office in Connecticut and Paul's like, Well, Bob, this is New York. And you know, I really can't put you on the show. And Bob was like, Well, I really want you. He's like, Bob, I'll try to figure something out, but I can't. No problem. Bob back leaves. Now I'm watching the show and we're sitting there and we have a little table. There's a monitor. Paul's got the headset on and I'm watching. I like to experience everything from the crowd. Here comes a guy's entrance. And as I'm watching from the crowd, from the top of the building, I see Bob Backlund holding a sign that says, Vote for Bob Backlund. And I'm saying now I'm right in the shows a Paulie and I know what's going on. And I say, Paul, why do you have Bob Backlund doing a run in? And he goes, I don't. And I said, Bob, Backlund coming to the ring. And he says, No, he's not. And I like the Wizard of Oz. I pull over the curtain and I point for a pall over the headset to Atlas. Get f**king. Bob Beckel belt. So Atlas Security swarms on Bob and then they get Bob Backlund out of the show. So again, I don't want to tell Bob back on this because I'm going to go and have a meeting with him. You know, my friend, 30 years later, I was 39 years old. We start a pizzeria at my house and I tell Bob back on the story about how he snubbed me. Yeah, I and I go, Bob, listen, I've lived your life. You can't sign everyone's autograph, but I go. But there was only about eight of us there. You could assign mine, ha ha. And his face turned beet red. I had a great conversation with Bob so that Tuesday to my house, the old school black and white Bob Backlund holding up the Championship belt comes to my house in an envelope and it says to my number one fan, Tommy Dreamer, I hope this makes up for a buyback one. Wow. We've been great friends ever since. So we buried the hatchet. Thirty years later, I buried the hatchet with Bob back when I hated his guts. I was at Madison Square Garden when the Iron Cheek beat them, and I was the only kid who cheered. I used to go to the garden all the time. I mean, I was at WrestleMania one. I was the biggest mark man. I couldn't get all your favorites growing up. OK, we know you're Bob Backlund fan, but no, I hated Bob after that. Bob is the word. Oh yeah, you hated him. But who are some of your favorites that you grew up on? My father was a schoolteacher and a principal. He would have the summers off and winter vacation two and a half months after my first show. We go down to Florida and my father takes me to The Hollywood Reporter to him and I see Florida Championship Wrestling Jesus have mercy and grace. I purchased my first ever eight by 10, a bloody, dusty Rhodes picture with the cowbell. My first ever wrestler T-shirt, which I still have. Barry Windham. The kid is hot tonight. I saw Barry Windham vs. Jimmy Garvin for the Florida title, so Manny Fernandez Russell and the main event was Dick Murdock and I even call off. He just turned on his best friend, Dusty Rhodes vs. Dusty Rhodes and Bugsy McGraw. They hit the ring with garbage can and a broom dusty bled. And it was a great night in my life, and so Dusty was my guy. But I was. I was a great fan because I loved the good guy. What did you think about that time of wrestling? Because the greatest of the Florida brand was different than the New York brand you were growing up on? I was middle class, upper middle cla*s. I had something called cable. My deal I made with my parents every Tuesday night, wrestling from Florida aired on the Spanish channel at 11 o'clock at night. Are you kidding me? And I used to watch it? My mother every Wednesday, my deal was if I didn't wake up on time to go to school, I wouldn't be able to watch wrestling next week. So every Wednesday, I got up early. I was tired, as could be, but Tuesday nights I'd be watching wrestling. We had dude, we had Southwest Wrestling here on the USA Network. I was one of the first houses to have cable. I watched everything I would do little league dudes. Funny because I mean, back at back in those days. I mean, for the most part, you got what you had in your territory, not here. I had everything. I had Mid-South. I had Georgia Championship Wrestling, I had Florida Championship Wrestling. You have our cla*s. I had Mid-South has done some good stuff. You had to love the loaded you bag and all that stuff I had. I had world cla*s. I had every single thing. The only thing I did not have. I had the AWP. The only thing I didn't have and I'm getting all this and I was a subscriber to The Wrestler Pro Wrestling Illustrated. So the only thing I didn't have was Memphis, and then my friend worked at a video store and he was getting all these tapes is like it's called tape trading. And I'm like, Huh? So now I'm getting I'm selling VCR, and the best was I would send this guy six hours of WWE squash matches, and he's sending me six matches of Memphis, six hours. Yeah, our brawls and, you know, Mid-South Coliseum. So I couldn't get enough. And living up here was was a great place during that time because I saw everything, OK, you saw everything and you saw all the other promotions. So then really give me your top three territories that you know, as you grew up, that you favored Florida Championship Wrestling Mid-South. World class, but the entire I have to say anything, NWA was me when I when I got into wrestling, I didn't not want to go to. And I started learning about the business. I did not want to go to WWF. I wanted to go to Japan, where I wanted to go to WCW because those were the working territories. You know where WWF at the time was all, you know, characters and stuff like that. You know, the NWA is where you want to go. I mean, George Championship Wrestling, right? I still, to this day, I watch one wrestling match a night. I'm ridiculous. If I have an obscure reference or I think of something I will go like tonight because I'm here with you, I will watch something Steve Austin, right? And just to make me still love something that I've loved for so long. And you know, I'll turn around and the next second beat, Oh, it's four o'clock in the morning and I'm still on YouTube watching wrestling. I should be watching porn or watching something else. But no, I'm watching wrestling like a maniac. And you know, he's still learning promotion. You did not mention was Houston wrestling from Paul Bosh. I never got that, OK? I only would get that from tapes, but that was that wasn't national. You know, they would show it every once in a while, you know, through world cla*s. Or they would show it right. You know, Junkyard Dog, you decided you had to be a wrestler, nine years old, nine years old. OK, you go to the school, you end up getting a little start as little like, I see what was i w CCW is hard for me to separate. I'm using international world class championship wrestling. So as a young Teddy Madison White babyface? Yeah. Well, I started off as Tommy Dreamer and then they were there was a guy there whose name was GQ Madison. They wanted to make us, you know, so that's what the matter. So they put the TD in front, you know, Tommy Dreamer, Madison. And so no. So you always had the Tommy Dreamer name in your back pocket. How did you come up with that name? Because were you indeed paying tribute to Dusty Rhodes? It was always my dream to be a wrestler. Dusty was always my favorite, my other choice. The night before, I'm, you know, the day of my match. You know, you think of what your name is going to be. I wanted to call myself was a big, great Buddha and sting mark. I wanted to paint my face. And this is when staying mood were in their feud and I wanted there was there was a techno song called This is Acid and I wanted to spray my face. And when the time was right, blow acid in a man's face, which would be my finisher because I'm spitting acid in your face and you're going to, you know, face going to melt and you're going to be blind and you can't see me. So that was give me a name, Tommy Acid. And then when I told Johnny Rod that and I started paint my face because what are you doing? And I said, Well, this one and he goes, No, you're too good looking to be. That is a this is your dream. OK, you're Tommy Dreamer. That's OK. And that's how that struck. And it was a tribute to Dusty Rhodes, and it's always been my dream. Tom is my real last name. I mean, my real first name. And so that's kind of how that happened. I still think Tommy Acid would get over nowadays. I could blow. I could blow acid in your mouth. OK, OK. Wow, guys. So you're going to put acid in your mouth is not going to eat up inside of your mouth. Yeah, no, I didn't think about that. Now you could blind someone is going to eat a beverage. I could have done like the Drano gimmick, but I could only done it once. Yeah. Hey, let's just fast forward a little bit an extreme championship wrestling when you got in, was it still Eastern Champs year president and was making the transition? I came in the first day that Paul took over. I just showed up with my gear Taz and I've been wrestling all over the East Coast. You know, he, you know, he got me booked for ICW. We wrestled a million times there. We were doing stuff that people hadn't seen before. Taz was, you know, a little guy suplex and everybody, you know, he would take me and suplex. I took all of Taz early moves. Taz, like, I want to suplex a guy upside down dreamer Cormier, right? And so we had a match. I'll never forget it was my debut match. And this is how crazy and good Paul is. We had a match. Three people at the end of my match clapped their hands, gave me a standing ovation. Paul calls me the studio, which is about two hours away, so I drive down and he goes, Look at this and he shows me three people standing for me because I could do something with you. So cool, man. I just, you know, I didn't know where you C.W. was as an independent. And Paul, on the first on the first television show, he had all of the bad guys going over. Shane Douglas was going over. Public Enemy was gone. Everybody went over. Taz beat me and they had Joey Styles and this show, he's like, Ladies and gentlemen, there, you know, ICW is running amok. This guy's or this guy is going over, you know, he's totally there's doom and gloom, and ICW goes, What weight? He goes, Let's go back to the ring. And he goes, These hardcore fans of Philadelphia that booed Santa Claus are cheering this pretty boy Tommy Dreamer. Maybe there's hope for ICW, after all, getting goosebumps, even just talking about it, right? And from that, three people standing for me. Poor Paul saw something in me and then, but it took you a while before, oh, it took me a hell of a lot. Yeah, I was so good looking. No, I was. I was a good looking babyface again. That's what I thought I had. I was, but you were. You're almost the anti of everything that they were going to do. They respected my wrestling, but just because of my appearance, I had a really good, wholesome, good looking dude. Yeah. But again, it was the 90s. Yeah, that's what I thought I had to be. My first job offer from WCW was to be the American males. When Bagwell and there was Bagwell in the Patriot and Bagwell left, Kevin Sullivan offered me $75000 a year for two years to be his his partner, one half of the American male. And I said, No, it's a good thing that didn't happen because all these contracts for the working man good. All these conventions, if I went as the American male people say, what the hell happened to that guy? Because my body, my gimmick would've been like a body guy, right? Then I got to wear a T-shirt, so then I could just, you know, do whatever. So talk about the key moment that started to getting you over his babyface. Was it indeed the Singapore cane match? I'll give it all the credit. Taz Taz said. Paul was pushing me, pushing me, and, you know, I kicked out of Jimmy Snuka Splash and the first guy to tell me about a little bit about the uphill battle here. Because, yeah, you're fighting to become a babyface and you're catching on a little bit. But before you started getting over the top and before the Cain thing, I mean, how it was a struggle frustrating, was it? You have no clue. I would say, Oh no, I do. That's why I would go to the fans and I would ask because we'd have a lot of repeat fans and I say, What don't you like about me? Like all nothing. We just we just boo the bad guys like, well, OK, but what don't you like about me, right? My look, I can't, you know, right? I got to think. No. Well, it's just, you know, or people would tell me little things. You know you do. We don't like guys who clap. We don't, you know, you represent the good guy. OK. It was. It was. It was a transformation. I had Terry Funk be like, Tommy, just be you. And he goes, They don't like your look, grow a goatee and you make you look tougher. Now I grow a goatee to hide my double chin. But it's what do you mean, right? I'm somewhat svelte. No, but those little transformations and like, you know, it's funny. I remember one time and this is how much I loved wrestling. I remember seeing like Terry Funk's eyes and how they were like droopy and beat up. And I remember punching my eyes to try to make me look a little tougher. Grizzly. Yeah. And I didn't know that happened because of old age. You know, I just, you know, that was how much I was willing to do anything. And, you know, and it was just these little things. But Taz went to Paul and said, Listen, I don't care. This kid will. He's tough. And at the time, there was that kid in Singapore who was going to get caned. And it was national news. And Paul's like, Hey, let's come up with the idea of, you know, so the loser gets lashed 10 times. And do you remember the first one? They cheered. Second one? Yeah, a third one. And now it's like, whoa. And now they're seeing their stories. Yeah, they're seeing the welts on my back. Yeah. By the six one people, the people who hated my guts they used to hold. When I kicked out the Jimmy Snuka splash, I remember a sign I'm making history and a guy holds up a sign wet dream. And I'm like, Thanks, buddy, that's all you got to be, but that's only going to be up there for the rest of my life. Yeah. So, OK, OK, where it came number six. Now, people, Tommy, stay down. My back is gushing blood. They're seeing the welts. I'm I'm really crying. Yeah. Did they strap you down or you just like that? I would hit and I would keep, you know, getting up, OK? And a woman was, you know, healing me and Sam and sitting there doing, you know, his gimmick by seven people are screaming to get down. There was girls crying in the audience. And then by the time I got up, it was so much. I remember looking at salmon, and Salmon's bottom lip was quivering because we knew this was was something. Yeah. And I feel like he's really caning me and this. This is, you know, I remember the movie The Passion of Christ, where they're depicting a caning there, acting it. I was really getting caned, right? And you look at I go back and look at that now. That was a real cane. It was a gimmick. It was breaking on my back. Yeah, and I got up and I actually took 11 because then when I turned around. Son of a b***h. Yeah, for the last that was a kid, you took the 10 and then you asked him for one more. Yeah. So I didn't see it. Did he milk that? He milked every one of them. I kept on, you know, they were like, woman kept saying enough time he just lay down, What are you fighting for these moments for? Eleven, strike him with the crowd. Well, the 11th after I, he gives me the final one. I remember, I said, but it's like I took every one of everything you got. You ain't nothing. But when I turned around, he suckered me for another one, right? And then he hit me so hard. The king broke around and not only. It in the back of the head butt hit me in the front. Hmm. Split open my face, right? So then right after that, what do I do? I'll go cut promos, right? You know? So that was that. And that was the beginning of holy s**t, this guy will do anything for us, right? And then the moment and I again, I remember Pauly looking at me almost like a father, proud of his kid, and he hugged me and he embraced me. It was the night I Powell drove Beulah. It was my fear with Raven, and he showed it all the time. I was in the crowd and I was chanting, He should be. My face was bloodied. I hit my pose and he grabbed. When I came to the back, it was it was like seeing your son hit a home run, winning the World Series of the Little League game. And he grabbed my hands and he said. Once you're over, these people will believe in you for the rest of your life, as long as you don't ever let them down. And I never did. And I think that's still kind of goes to my relationship I have with fans. You know, we're talking about the house hard core of why it's been successful. I go out. Everybody knows I'm real. Everybody knows I'm a wrestling fan. I never was above that. You know, it's funny. Me mean, John Cena have traveled together. Me and John Cena have gone to gyms together. We went to a gym in Wichita, Kansas, and this guy came up to me and he was like, Tommy, you know John Cena's here? And I was like, Yeah, I travel with him. People view me as Tommy from their gym. Tommy, the regular guy. And it just happened to us. You and I just took that picture of the guys. Can I take a picture? He tapped me on the shoulder like, thanks Tommy. He didn't ask for a picture of me. Yeah, he knew who I was, but he wanted the picture with you. I was never that superstar. I was. I was the regular the guy. But I remember again all those little tweaks and little things I remember with Paul Paul's. Like You ever watch ARN Anderson? You ever watch Hulk Hogan? Hulk Hogan walks out there. He points to the top of the rafters, even if there's nobody there. So I would walk out the issue and I would look up. I would look to my left, I look to my right and I'd be like, Wow, this place is packed because that gives you a great presence on television. That also gives you a presence that everyone's looking at you, right? And then he was like, You ever watch ARN Anderson? Arneson comes to ring. Everybody's afraid of him. Guys want to punch him, blah blah. He'll give a look and guys back up. What does ARN Anderson do as a babyface? Different? Nothing. Those same people that are reaching to punch him are the same people that are clamoring to touch him, right? And because I remember once again a struggling babyface, I'd go out there. I put my hands to slap their hands and the fans would have their hands there and they pull their hands away. You look like a real douchebag on television. Yeah, but again, that was Paul just taking little nuances of different guys and giving it to me. My what this business is missing, especially on the indies, is veteran leadership. I can look around. I used to travel with Paul Heyman. I had Mick Foley. I had on the indies. I had Tony Atlas, who would help me all the time. Tell me, Kid, don't take drugs, kid, don't do this kid. I'm living in a YMCA. Save your money I had in STW. Paul Heyman, Mick Foley, Terry Funk, Kevin Sullivan. How can you not learn in that locker room? I had Sherri Martel running around, you know, or talking to me, or, Hey, sure, you want to take a car trip? How do you not learn from any of this? Or there's so many guys I go to so many shows. Guys don't even ask me to watch their matches. I love watching wrestling. Well, when was it? When was it built a piledriver and I won the same night, was it? No, you'll probably shout my position after the same and it went to see Man Feud went to the raven. You, the Steve Austin show. The Steve Austin show. Man, did you see the ACW barbed wire, s**tty DVD? I'm not sure I know it just painted it in such a. It was like a bunch of guys came out of a meat grinder because, you know, barbed wire, barbed wire saying, OK, I never saw that one. OK, yeah, I don't watch anything that's about ICW. That's not if it's not myself or Paul Heyman or right. I don't. I don't feel it's authentic, authentic, but OK, what are your thoughts when you look back at ICW? Because I came to that for a brief time. And it was a very interesting time. And of course, you know, Balor gave me an opportunity to learn how to cut a great promo, correct and helped guide me through that course. You know, when I when I used to, when I first came there, I was trying to be a heel. I remember and I remember it like it was Middletown, New York. So I know Barbara got his job. I said, You know what? I see? Here's a bunch of violent crap, and I said, I'll call it exactly what it is, because that's the way I see it. Bunch of violent crap about trying to be a heel to the end of the violence. Didn't it get a little bit too much to after a while? Yeah. Again, wrestling was 90s. WCW, WWE are competing. They had their own niche, Paul went with violence to get people to, you know, watch us and we became the like the South Park, the tape traders, Hey, wrestling is fake. But these guys in Philadelphia are real. Yes. When you know you saw that the paid death matches are all the tables or this scarred up freak named Sabu, but we were different. What a lot of people don't realize was most of us could actually wrestle except for the Sandman. He was the s**ts. You'll be the first to ever tell you, but he was tough, right? And he was like the bruiser of the crusher. People believed him and. You know, from that, we had Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko Crisp, and while we had amazing wrestlers, we had Rey Mysterio when our competition went one way. We would go the other way, right? When you tell me this and I talk, I'm talking to you strictly from my old school STW mentality when Paul was amazing and Paul also gave me forget about what he did for me. He did everything for me. But he it was creative freedom. It was, well, hey, instead of going this way, what do you feel that way? Or Paul would be like, Tommy, you booked the rest of the show. I was a little different, but got, you know, Raven Shane. Taz. We all had input to our own. We knew how to be us. And Paul would tweak it. And if we had a disagreement, he would actually sit and listen to us, sometimes change it. Or sometimes he let you spew whatever you wanted to get out and that the bottom line would still do what he wanted. But it was also the mentality was always for all, for the show. Hardcore wrestling and all that stuff, it does get a bad rap for again. People think they were all about violence. Some of the greatest wrestling matches occurred in ICW. I mean, you look at the guys who came through there or just had the Bret Chris Jericho, Chris Jericho did some amazing stuff. Too cold, Scorpio, still to this day, works his a*s off on indies. But there was guys out there that just were able to go out there and practice their craft and master what they did for. And we were we were not go out there in five minutes plus two intros and go, do what you do. Paul would edit the s**t out of it, or I'm going to sell it on VCR tape and go out there and take it and our mentality. Rob Van Dam, Jerry Lynn. Our mentality was if you couldn't top us or you couldn't top me on the card, you didn't deserve to be there. And that's kind of how we went. You know, it really was. And yes, I could say how we're like we were escalating the violence and all that s**t. A lot of people talk about me, Oh, you got chokeslam through 10 tables. The record was four. And yes, I would. You know, I joke with Mick Foley about it because he took the one big bump on television on pay per view, got paid a lot of money for it. I was taken chokeslams off the cage in like Jim Thorpe, Pennsylvania, through one table, and but we were building towards it. You know, it was first I got beat by jokes and then it was one table, then it was two, then it was three. But then at the end we did that big scaffold match Brian Lee and there was the payoff. But again, people want to rewrite their own thoughts about it. I mean, also, how was a real camaraderie back here? But it was awesome. The one night when we were at the hotel was really late at night and we got the promo. But but you were there, Raymond was there, Salman was there and he's a bunch of guys are Steve Richards was there. But how competitive were you guys? We were all fighting. We were all over the counter. You know, obviously I was J.R. would say a lot of us were drinking the Kool-Aid, right? We knew that this was a great if you think about what he was, ICW was a developmental for the business. Guys would practice their craft, get over and they would go other places. That's what ICW truly was. That's what ICW should have been. We all thought we were rebels. We all thought we were changing the business because then here comes the attitude era. You know, a lot of times when guys you know here, you know, Sam and drinks beer, I'll look Steve Austin's these steel in our s**t. We did have that mentality in 97 when we went to do the invasion. We thought we were actually, I didn't, but I wasn't too sure. And I remember when Jerry Briscoe, when we did that thing in Philadelphia, I thought, was there, Hey, brother, we work in or we shoot. Jay Briscoe wanted to fight me, and I never met this man, and he's like, You motherf**kers, you dare. The only told. Then I find out they only told Xavier Savio Vega, JBL don't even know, right? And you know, we were ready for a fight. We had plants in the audience. If s**t goes down, guys, we're going to fight for real. We were that crazy. It's funny. I just went back to the Manhattan center for TNA and I said, Man, I was here in 1997. We all walked in like a team, and I remember Vince being so impressed by it. And when we walked into that locker room, we were not perceived well because we were taking guys TV time. It was. It was such a different time in the business. What I say this how I think then. But then later on to find that Paul was in bed with Vince all along. That's the heartbreaking part about ICW or the fact that STW didn't have to go out of business. That is, you know, I had saved the company. I had millions of dollars offered to me, but they just didn't want to have Paul running the show because as we know, Paul's a little flaky is a nice way to put it. But, you know, I found out Paul was in bed with Terry the whole time on every bite, this one, we were getting ready to do thousand five Pay-Per-View. And so when you find that out, what do you do? I wanted to kill him because I love you guys are on good terms now, right? Yeah, we had loads of money. Yeah, we didn't have a fight. I was lied to. Right. If I looked at it, I don't have any malice or ill feelings towards him. Right? One because of everything he did to me. For me, I don't like people who lie. He did not have to lie to me. I get why he did it. And I mean, I straight up told him this. But again, you didn't have to go out of business. It didn't. But I think he was just he was done right. And I mean, even like when he went to, I've asked, I asked him for a few things like, Hey, the ring truck was in my name. I was my parents were paying for the company. I lost a lot, you know, hundreds of thousands of my money and my parents money. And I, you know, I ruined my credit because of all that stuff. WCW had one. I remember this is towards the end. Dusty Rhodes had called me up and said, Hey, Eric Bischoff wants to do an angle with, you know, because now they're getting their a*s kicked. They want to have you CW invasion. And I was like, Paul, this could help save the company. You know, we're hanging on and he's like, Vince will go crazy. Like, who the f**k cares about what Vince wants? And then right then there is a something's up, right? And I remember in 97, I mean, I we would go and we'd have meetings and we went to the tower and we would talk about, you know, we're doing cross-promotion. But it was helping you, C.W., get on national television, you know, for our pay per views. And Jerry Lawler was a perfect catalyst for all that stuff. But again, in hindsight, you have no clue how people's lives change. It's funny. Every day when I go on these indies, I will meet people who were like, it was the greatest time of my life. And if you guys could have just hung out and I know he was on your podcast recently, and you know, we were owed a lot of money and I just felt he gave up and I stayed in ICW longer than the owner, and I thought I was an owner in the sense of because all the stuff that I did, but I didn't have anything right? How much of a hand did you have in a booking? Who? Paul took me into the studio in about 1995 because I live close and he showed me how to edit. He showed me how to book there. I used to run all the live events. He wasn't even coming to the shows. Me and Raven were kind of booking a lot of our own stuff in ravens and interesting guy. Oh yeah. Wormhole travel partners and what? I haven't talked him a long time, but a very good friend. Very bright guy. Yes. And there were some great promo. There was a great characters, personalities, and I don't want to say characters or characters. Yes, but people, yes, I've got some great promos we have. I had talk to me about a booking session between yourself and Raven because the thing about Scott is so funny. He is so smart. He'll overthink things. So many times he'll go back to square one. Yes. You know, after he done went by and made it better six times, he'll go back to the original. The first run of him. There was a pleasure because he was trying to get away from the Johnny Polo. Everything was great. His second run, we kind of butted heads a lot and I knew he was only there for a short term because he wanted to go back to Vince and all that stuff. And he had also, you have to understand my mentality. Then he left, I stayed, and you're going to stick it out. I would if Egw never went to business, I would still be there still to this day. It was. So what was that when the hammer came down? And hey, it's over with. Me on my life suicidal, right? When I tell you suicide, I was straight up. I was 29 years old. My life was over. I had I felt I had nothing. I had no job. Paul, I. Paul, I went to the Heart Springfield show to say hello to Bubba and D-Von, and Bubba is trying to get me a job, and Paul calls me up and tells me, I'm starting with David tomorrow and I'm. And meanwhile, the whole time he was telling me that we're going to try to. You know, save the company, we're still getting on television and you have, you know, I had when I tell you, you should never have to go out of business, I had people who wanted they had I was offered $110 million to. They wanted to purchase CCW. Put it on television. The one thing that Paul did not lie about was these people wanted to take you, C.W., get the timeslot that WCW and put ICW on there. They didn't want Paul running it because they felt he was shady. All that stuff. I was going to run it and I straight up said, Paul, I'll never f**k you over. I'll be your boss. You know, it's not. I'm not going to be the boss. It's it's going to be exactly the way it is. And you go from $110 million. I just bought my dream home with. That's all I really want to do is buy my mom and dad a house. And I was living in it, and I just I went from the ultimate feast to the ultimate famine. And it's funny here in New York, me, two other people that were running the business of ICW where we're sitting there and we're waiting for Paul to talk about. Here's here's a loan of hundred and $10 million. And the night before he was supposed to fax something he never faxes. Finally, that morning, at about 10:00 a.m., he faxes a list of receivables, not what the what they wanted. And he no showed the meeting and he let me look like such a f**king a*****e in front of these people that are wanting to save. This is my life. This is my livelihood. These are my. You understand these are my friends livelihoods. My hardest part about the wrestling business is, I guess, from the premise. It's based upon deception when it doesn't have to be that way. When I wanted to leave, every I straight up went to vent and said, Listen, I don't want to be here anymore, and I know you gone through your own. Yeah, but I sat with Vince and I straight up told them, I need to leave. And he was like, I don't want you to do that. All this stuff. But at the end of the day, it's not like I'm going to go on national television, beat somebody up. Let me just say goodbye, all that type of deal. So I like to treat people how I like to be treated. And you don't need to lie and bulls**t and do that to people because I've seen when you see said everyone, a business, I saw my best friends, I seen their girlfriends leave them. You know why? Because they're not famous anymore. I saw No. Yeah. And these are guys, my one friend. I'm not going to say who he is, but he was thinking of proposing to a girl. And then all of a sudden she starts acting weird because even on TV anymore, thank God he didn't marry her anyway. But everybody's lives were affected by that, and it was affected by someone. One person's decision? And I, you know, it's funny, like in TNA, I'm fighting so hard because the business needs TNA. The business needs House of Hardcore. The business needs the business, needs so many different things because if not, the business wants to survive. Honestly, I'm a big baseball fan. I like the Yankees and the Mets or the Yankees and the Red Sox, but I don't want to watch them every single day. You know, I like diversity. I want to see new characters. So what happens with the offer $109 if we get the receivables in the meeting, you know, when you know, show a meeting and bottom line, if I want that beer, if I offer you a $110 million for that beer and you don't want to sell to me or you just I can't buy it, right? So it just it went away. So it goes away. You're suicidal. The worst. What was what? What were the other boys thoughts? I mean, everyone was crumbled. Yeah. Did you lose your house? No. Save it. I had saved it at about. Seven months later, the crash of the WCW angle on television and Jim Ross during that time, I'll never forget and honestly, man, if I didn't have my parents, I probably would have either killed Paul or killed myself or both. And I was nuts, right? And Jim Ross called me up and said, Hey, Tom, is Jim Ross, we're going to bring in. I just need you to hang on, kid. And that was my only hope. And I was working tons of indies, but I was depressed, as can be. I think the only good thing about being depressed was I lost a lot of weight and I was probably when I went to WWE, I was like 228 in the best shape of my life. But just because I was so focused on you have no clue. Actually, you do have a clue because you went from top of the business to breaking your neck. But then picture debris debris dumped you and you have nothing. Yeah, that's where I was at. You know, you have to deal and most people don't. I was 29 years old. Yeah, I wasn't even 30. What were your thoughts when you first entered the WWE? I wasn't in Kansas anymore, right? I remember we did that angle where we the invasion. Here we come. And we turned and then we join with the WCW guys. I remember there was a specific moment where we had to practice our walk to the ring with everyone, and they made us do like three times. Boy, that such as done it. Yeah. Where we come from, the fans, we had to go, how are we going to happen? And I didn't realize I thought they were ribbing us. I was very defiant. And that affected me big time in my. I want to see my first tenure in WWE, right? It also, most people thought. When I first was there, they were wanting me to go right into the office and I was like, Well, I'm 29 years old, I like to wrestle. And this was when they wanted you to go right into the office and what I don't know, work and talent relations, why you were Tommy Dreamer, but I was also I was talent, relations and everybody. I mean, in ICW, I ran the live events I. I dealt with the craziness of all the wrestlers. I held together a locker room of guys who weren't getting paid and sticking razors in their heads to, you know, I was. What were you guys telling everybody when nobody was getting paid down there? Hey, man, hang on, it'd be OK. We got some paycheck next. We were all trained at the office. At one point was me, Devon and Guido. We found out where Paul's bank was and Guido would go there and wait. And he'd right before work. Is there money in the account yet? And they said no. But the father said he's come in at like two o'clock. We'd all be there two or five to cash a check to get what money was in and out. Right? And again, the sucky is part about his significant business. Our houses were were sold out. You know, we worked the Hammerstein, which the big building sold out back-to-back back-to-back nights. No television. We lost. You know, we lost our deal with with TNN. And but, you know, Paul was telling us we were going to be on USA Network and we came real close to doing it. The one thing there's a lot of guys who are bitter and I am not bitter because if he didn't go out of business, I would not have my children because I I 100 percent all about wrestling. I never knew what love was until my kids. I really I didn't. It's funny, my own wife, Beulah, she said. I know I'd always be second to wrestling and she accepted that. Really? Yeah, and she she's a great woman for it, right? Because I've said, Why the hell did you even stick around with me? You know what she'd say? And my large penis, Noah, she said that she knew I'd turn out to be if you're going to lay in bed and do this podcast. I guess she one of the nicest things that she said to me was I always knew you were a great guy. And when I see you with your, our kids. That's the man that I always envisioned that I wanted to be with. And so that was cool. It worked out for I always tell her she won the lottery. Look at me, I'm a prize. I'm an Adonis. Hey, met through all the bulls**t you guys been through now. How long you and Bill have been together now? Oh, we were married. I don't know. Two thousand. I don't even know. How's that 2004? It's OK. Nobody listeners podcast. Anyway, yeah, no. 20. So what's the secret to the two? The happy marriage? I'm away. I'll go. I'm away a lot. The the secret to a happy marriage. I want to say the best part about her was she was in the originally CW, right? And it's funny. I was telling Edge this story where this was right before our first ever pay per view. When a young lady was, I was all again all about the debauchery servicing at least 10 of the wrestlers. Yeah. And I'm telling her the story. And then she claimed rape. And we had to go and find this girl and then this young lady who I knew I found her in my friend's room, who was passing out on the drugs soma and she was blowing him and he was. His eyes were closed and this girl was still going to town on him. And I walked in there with the police officers that this girl had accused us of rape and then disappeared, right? And I said I would like to press charges on that girl because she's raping my friend. And I'm telling Edge that he's like, Holy cow. And my wife turned. She was, Oh, I totally remember that she was there with me, and I can tell her, and I, you know, I will tell her, What are you doing? I'm going to strip club. What are you doing? Well, I watched a midget and a giant bang, a 350-pound stripper that I orchestrated. Well, me and Matt Striker brought back six strippers from a strip club and we hung out and below the bar. And you know, she's cool. It is. She was very cool with this, but she you know that she hit me up. It's funny. When am I going to grow up? And she's right. And to talk about how bad I never I don't drink. I never did drugs. I was always been straight up. My face was always women on the road. And to tell you about the karma gods, I have twin daughters. That's how much I got double zing. That's how bad I was a proud overachiever. But she has been there through thick and thin and always supported me, and she's awesome. She still, you know, it's funny. She recently got hurt at one of my House of hardcore shows, and she got a bad concussion and Lance Storm clotheslined her and lance storm. She just took a bad bump. She hasn't taken a bump in front glances like, yes, I know pigeon bones. Yeah. And she's she's been feeling the effects of that still. And this was a while ago and she said, You know, I'm I'm 43. She's 44, and she said, I'm a mom. I shouldn't be doing this anymore. And there's it's a bigger picture. You know, we have 10 year old girls. There is, for me, going to the Manhattan center recently and I knew I was coming back on TV. We're going to have this crazy hardcore war and right before I left, she gives me a hug and a kiss and she goes, Remember you're 43. I know you think you're 23, but you have two kids that rely on you. And I don't want to know if I'll take a bad bump or something. She's the one who has to deal with it. It's hard. Hey, we're going to come right back next week with Tommy Dreamer, but this is a good way to Segway out of the conversation and close the show. But we're going to continue this conversation right where we left off. I want to thank Tommy Dreamer to come to my little bitty tiny a*s. It's even more romantic now because it's at night and the lights are down. It's dark fifty shades of grey thing. We're holding hands and I got beer. Who knows what's going to happen? I don't think his wife is going to care. Anyway, that's bulls**t with two straight guys shooting a s**t. Right? But I can't bring my conversation to a close with Tommy Dreamer. Part two is going to be coming next week. Is too much conversation just to fit into one show? Hell, we was crammed up in that little bitty hotel room in New York City overlooking the theater district. They're having a good time, so still got to talk about the innovator of violence gimmick, his departure from WWE and what he's currently doing with both TNA and his own House of Hardcore. Lots more next Thursday with Tommy Dreamer. This has been a podcast. One Production Download new episodes of the Steve Austin show every Tuesday at podcast Montcalm. That's podcast Omnicom. All month long on Pluto TV's stream, the biggest Tyler Perry movies, free, what are your favorites like Madea's Witness Protection and Madea's Big Happy Family? Joy Tyler Perry as he goes on a couples retreat with Sharon Leal in Why Did I Get Married? Or Idris Elba and Gabrielle Union in the Tyler Perry directed film Daddy's Little Girls. Plus, Pluto TV has hundreds of channels with thousands more movies and TV shows available on live and on demand. Download the free Pluto TV app on all your favorite devices and start streaming now. Pluto TV Drop in ! Watch Free Yourself Guide is NBA champion Bobby Portis of the Milwaukee Bucks here with my brand new podcast. Keep it a book ! Each week, Me A and Beretta, we'll be talking to special guests from fellow athletes, celebrities and friends from all walks of life. We're talking honest conversations with real people about their lives and what drives them to succeed. And, you know, we'll keep it a book. Download new episodes of Keep It a Book every Thursday. Coming soon on PodcastOne or wherever you get your favorite podcast. Keep it above his.